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Geek Culture / Where has "General Talk" gone?!

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 12:58 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 12:59
Where has "General Talk" gone?

The answer is "to the dogs". So let me explain what has happened.

General Talk has been renamed "Geek Culture". More importantly than this, the Acceptable Use Policy of this forum has been significantly updated today. You can read the whole thing if you like, but the most important changes are listed at the end of this message.

Why the change? Simple - this forum is run by The Game Creators. Every single thing posted here reflects upon TGC, either directly or indirectly. The whole company is based around computer games, game making and the gaming culture. The discussion of such topics is what we wanted to encourage, and that is why these forums were created in the first place.

However we appreciate that there is a need for an "off-topic" area, and that is exactly what "General Talk" provided. The problem being, that things have gotten far too ‘general’.

We're seeing constantly reoccurring threads of similar flame enticing natures. Threads covering topics such as "God doesn't exist / God does exist", "Government X is useless", "We all evolved from XYZ", "Absolutely anything 9/11 related", "Abortion", "Anything election related", etc.

( In the wake of recent natural human disasters such as the Asian Tsunami I personally was utterly disgusted at some of the insensitive juvenile comments that came forth. )

You're probably thinking "why don't the moderators do anything about this?” The problem is, in most cases, they cannot. How do you moderate a "God does not exist" thread fairly, and with an unbiased attitude, if you totally disagree with it in the first place? How does a moderator who lost good friends in the 9/11 attacks act tolerate someone claiming "we asked for it"?

I don't believe it's possible. Furthermore, I don't expect the moderators to have to put aside personal beliefs and feelings either. I have always maintained that moderators here should be allowed to speak freely and not feel constricted by their status. The problem is most forum users don't know this. And when riled enough there have been instances of moderators locking or deleting threads out of sheer anger. This is human nature and I've done it myself. But it causes a backlash.

So based on the new rules our solution is to effectively halt discussion of such flame bait topics from even starting.

Controversial? Yes perhaps. Sounds dictatorial, doesn't it? But just because this is a forum, it doesn't give you a right to talk about whatever you want. There is no "freedom of speech" law covering our servers. So actually, if you do want to play here, you will play by our rules, or you will go elsewhere.

That probably sounds far harsher than it's meant to, as overall the majority of threads in the old General Talk board would be permitted under the new rules. Equally the majority of forum users have nothing to worry about.

If you DO want to discuss controversial topics such as those I mentioned briefly above, then you will have to go somewhere else to do it. There are hundreds of thousands of forums on the Internet. It won't take you more than 5 seconds in Google to find a suitable alternative. Somewhere that would be more accommodating to such threads, somewhere that isn't run by a commercial company with interests to protect.

It's a wild, wild world out there, and it was naive of us to think that it wouldn't spill over into a forum so perfectly named as "General Talk", a name which positively encouraged such soapbox style rants. So in line with the new policy, in line with the new decisions, we've renamed.

Some of you may feel like your "rights" have been stamped all over, that you should be allowed to talk about whatever the heck you want and why are we acting so "Nazi" about this? That's fair enough, but we've explained the reasons and whether you agree with them or not, every post you make to this forum either adheres, or gets removed.

Sorry it had to come to this. The alternative was removing the General Talk board totally, and to be honest we came _this_ close to doing so, but the moderators talked us out of it.

Acceptable Use Policy for the TGC Forum

Follow the netiquette rules and be a kind netizen

Don't post just to advertise a website unless it is on-topic

Do not post spam or pyramid schemes

Do not post links to illegal software sites

Do not post serial numbers of ANY product

Do not post cracks for ANY product

Do not post software or crack lists

Do not post using someone else's identity

Do not involve or advocate illegal activities (including piracy)

Do not post anything considered "adult" material

Do not post messages debating or discussing any form of religious belief or anything to do with religion (including anti-religious opinions) at all

Do not post messages debating or discussing any form of pro or anti government sentiments, irrespective of which government you're talking about

Do not post messages that can be, in any way at all, construed as racist

Do not post messages debating or discussing any form of creationist / evolutionary theories

Posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member or their work will not be tolerated without good cause

By attaching files to your forum messages you are giving The Game Creators automatic rights to distribute those files for free in any of their other sites / publications

You alone are fully responsible for the ENTIRE content of your messages

People don't quit playing because they grow old.
They grow old because they quit playing.
BatVink
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 13:54
Sounds reasonable to me. It might also encourage "on topic" discussions, I often get tired of wading through tosh.

NanoBrain
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 14:10
I do agree with the views, and fully understand the reasonings of TGC.



+NanoBrain+
Jiffy
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 14:19
Definetely. This makes perfect sense and I am suprised that it wasn't done sooner. Too many flamebait threads are around lately, and the forums will be a much better place without them.


Resident Evil Remake is teh fergin' best!
Hawkeye
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 14:43
Good, all those red letters in here were starting to make my eyes hurt...

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 14:54
Quote: "Don't post just to advertise a website unless it is on-topic"


What is considered "off topic" for a personal website?


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
Mnemonix
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:09
Although I am all for free speech, I do not like to spend all my time conversing with idiots about topical issues. Good move Rich, I can see why it was important to be made. I just hope some people dont get angry, they should understand you had no choice in the matter.

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:11 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 15:12
GENERAL TALK IS GONE!!!11onetwo

This is a shame, but at least we may get more interesting threads, and less idiotic ones.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:13
Stop quoting me.

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:24 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 15:27
Yeah I knda agree with these reforms, I certainly was getting annoyed with too many pointlessly political or ethical posts espcially those just looking for a fight.

However I've got a 'beef' - why label us all as 'Geek' s? I would say the definition of geek is more and more blurred nowadays, even the 'coolest' kids know how to use computers, play games and many are interested in making their own - even if not programming - surely TGC knows that with combined sales of t3dgm and fpsc being far higher than the dark basic series?

I personally don't mind being called a geek at all - I have a healthy interest in technology, spend a lot of time on the internet and whilst I don't truly like programming or computers I find it the best way to get my creativity out - I write artistic & fun software as well as using computers for my music production. But surely this is going to offend / put many young newcomers off - which is a threat to tgcs business, as like it or not, thats the people who buy the most products - just look at sales comparissons

[edit] perhaps 'Game Talk' would be better? - or if thats too specific call it 'other stuff' and just keep the sticky and the new guidelines?

Mnemonix
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:30
silence geek heathen. You will be labelled geek and live with it. And that is that. I am a geek too!!!!

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Raven
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:33
Quote: "[edit] perhaps 'Game Talk' would be better? - or if thats too specific call it 'other stuff' and just keep the sticky and the new guidelines?"


There were 3 choices for the name change... none had 'Game' in them

Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:36
Quote: "There were 3 choices for the name change... none had 'Game' in them "

Ok Lee Bamber, so what were they?

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:44
I AM a geek! I don't mind being called that. Its just I no longer dress or act like a geek in public. In fact I venture out of the house at least once a day! shock horror! I don't mind the term geek - it kinda has a chiche to it nowadays. But many of my friends would find geek an extremely derogatory term. Mostly 'Chavs' admittedly - but perfectly nice (and intelligent) people, who just follow fashion trends closely...

Dave J
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:44
PC Culture or Tech Talk are other possibilities. There's hundreds of choices but it's basically all the same, really.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Baggers
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:00 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 16:06
Yeah sorry but I agree with Kangaroo too....I don't know what it is...yes by all logic I am a geek but the term has underlying tones and semantacisms that I have trouble swallowing...
Result of childing bullying....yeah thats about it, i dont hate the word just some of the undertones it has. In exactly the same way that I am proud to be a scout leader...but when I was in school I knew better to say i was in the scouts if i wanted an insult free day.
Yes i'm rambling now...but I seriously would prefer 'tech talk' over the current.

Before my post is miscontrued I agree whole heartedly in the whole change in policy...General talk was really going to the dogs...who had fleas....and then were being eaten by japanese people....who also for some reason had fleas.......and the fleas had fleas..
..well yeah it was getting pretty bad.

Peter H
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:02 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 16:07
yay!

i highly approve of the change

and i proudly accept the title of geek. Anybody asks me what i am i say i'm a "geek"... it's much better then not admitting it and having everybody think it anyway

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:03 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 16:06
Quote: "But many of my friends would find geek an extremely derogatory term. Mostly 'Chavs' admittedly - but perfectly nice (and intelligent) people, who just follow fashion trends closely..."


If they're intelligent then hopefully they'll see the title for what it is - a summary of all things geeky. I could have called it "Tech Talk" or "Tech Culture" or "PC Culture" or anything really, but at the end of the day I didn't want it to be computer specific (you can be geeky about all kinds of things) and, well as Exeat said, it's all just basically the same end result really.

If someone finds "geek culture" too offense a board name for them to want to post into it, may I venture we're probably better off without those posts anyway?

You're right, I can see why kids would feel more against it than others, but even they should appreciate the broadness of the meaning.

Edit - Ok, let's take a vote. Who thinks it should be renamed "Tech Talk" (although personally I dislike the connotation that implies you can only talk about hardware). Or, come up with an alternative, if enough people like it I'll change it.

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They grow old because they quit playing.
Peter H
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:08
I vote Geek Week

ok, fine, Geek Culture

I agree that "tech" implies too much of a hardware area...

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Scraggle
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:09
Geek Culture is fine by me ... it get's my vote


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Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:10 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 18:47
******************
Comedien Zone
******************


Chat about how you are all not comediens, and you appologise to eachother for it.

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Baggers
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:15
Ahh screw it...in hine-sight (however it's spelt) ... I will get used to it in about half an hour anyway!

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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:18 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 16:21
This is the first and last time I shall post this. Benjamin - UR NOT COMEDIEN.

I was going to suggest 'tech talk' but it does sound very harware specific - how about 'articles of interest?' - then people could post whatever they wanted, as long as it fitted the guidlines. It would also encorage people to make a point, not just go there so say nothing or trade insults

Edit PS I have nothing personally against the name 'geek culture' and will not be at all offended if it isn't changed. I was just thinking how TGCs mainprospetive marketting area might percieve it and then take the wrong assumption that buying fpsc for example would make them 'not cool' in the eyes of their friends I'm probably over thinking things though so feel free to ignore my rantings Rich I totally respect your judgement

re faze
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:26 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 16:27
how about 'real talk' because I am most certainly not a geek. (I mean, would a geek have such a cool avitar? )

you dont beat the system. the system beats you.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:34
Yeah, these new set of rules did seem like a good move.

Death to politics!


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Van B
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 16:49 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 16:51
Greed,
Go outside right now, tell someone that you've just posted on an online programming forum and let them decide if your a geek or not .

I quite like the underlying tone of 'Geek Culture', sorta like if it's geeky then you can post about it here without fear of ridicule, because who in their right mind would mock you for being a geek in a place called 'Geek Culture' . It sorta gives us licence to be inhumanely geekish for once with other geeks.

But I suppose it depends on what you consider a geek to be, and how strong a term 'geek' is to you. For me 'geek' just means someone who's interested in something regardless of how fashionable or cool it's regarded by 'normal' people. I reckon it actually means very little these days, I think most people would rather be labelled as a geek than a chav for instance, being called a chav would offend me much more, that's for sure. I don't look or act all that geeky in real life, but there's no point in me denying the fact because people just have to mention a PC problem and my cover is blown!.


Van-B

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MiR
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 17:00
mmm. How about Game Maker´s zone? Or game maker discussion? Intellectual discussion? Personaly I can´t stand the term geek. I´m sure that the type of people who buy FPSC won´t either. I mean look at what the theasorus has to say about it:
Quote: "Synonyms: beatnik, case, character, coot, crackpot, creep, customer, fly ball, freak, fruitcake, geek, gonzo, goof ball, heretic, hippie, kook, loner, looney tunes, maverick, nonconformist, nut, nutcake, odd person, oddball, oddity, original, queer duck, rare bird, screwball, three-dollar bill, weirdo, whacko, wombat, zombie"


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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 17:02 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 17:03
I get called a chav everyday - more than I get called a geek. I don't even really fit the chav stereotype - its because my main job is a music producer, and I mostly deal with the hip hop & rnb side of things - and I'm white. Ah inherent racism, gotta love it. And yes I also produce some metal and alternative bands - and often get called a 'greebo' also for associating myself with that type of music. All of this makes little sense to me, although admittedly I do own BOTH burberry jeans and a Nirvana hoodie lol I'm a livin paradox in the eyes of the easy 'stereotyper'

Van B
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 17:15 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 17:16
I hear ya Kangaroo, I'm never 'socially' labelled a geek until someone else brings it up (usually my younger brother). That's the thing though - everyone is concearned about what gen disc is getting called now... but let's think exactly how many people will see you using the 'Geek' forum, or how many people we'd tell about the name change - it's really nothing to do with anyone except the people running and using the forum - our families and friends do not necesserily need to know about our condition.

Moreover, chicks love geeks (and geeky chicks are always secretly hot!), do none of you watch American teen movies?.


Van-B

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Raven
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 17:18
hehe, well you can't please everyone

TDK
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 17:50
How about...

"General Talk"!

... but with the new rules applied (which are very, very sensible might I add).

Since the name of the board is actually irrelevant - it's what is allowed in there that's important - there's no real reason to change it.

TDK_Man

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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 17:52
Thats very fair, I made the mistake of a 'bad' thread and I think was treated fairly by mods, but with this new ruling, its stops anymore people making the same mistake.


As you said there are plenty of places to discuss controversy, which is why I join MySpace.com, go there if you are in the mood to call politition X a moron, for those left wing users I can save you effort, on MySpace groups search for 'The Left'

The name is back dudes!
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Van B
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 18:00
Hehe, but the point is that it's not General Talk, General Talk instigates that it's a place for any type of discussion - it's not, there's lots of subjects best left alone and what we're basically left with is the geeky stuff, so I think the name change will remind people of what it's for. If the name does'nt change, neither will peoples attitudes towards it; and we'll just have a load of banned and peeved users before long.


Van-B

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BatVink
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 18:22
******************
Creative Culture
******************


This is a creative forum, whether it be programming, artwork, modelling, animation, building PCs, storyline writing, problem fixing, music making, demo producing, inspiration inducing or whatever it is we do best.

blanky
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 18:37
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TDK
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 18:44
OK - fair point Van.

Where you draw the line between what is OK and what is not 'geeky' enough (too general) when someone's post does NOT break the rules though. If you don't draw any lines then isn't it still just a General Talk board with a different name?

To be honest though, when you look through the posts, the number which as of today would have been outlawed is very, very small anyway, so I guess mine is a mute point anyway.

Also, I think Rich should delete all the threads that fall foul of the new rules - locked or otherwise.

At the end of the day, we'll all get used to it - whatever the board is called!

TDK_Man

Ian T
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 20:20
How about 'Hell'?


Seriously I think geek culture is fine. Whether or not all the users are geeks, the general community is

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NanoBrain
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 20:44
I, myself, believe that "Geek Culture" has a very good ring to it.



+NanoBrain+
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 21:02
I agree with most of what's been changed but:

Quote: "By attaching files to your forum messages you are giving The Game Creators automatic rights to distribute those files for free in any of their other sites / publications"


Now I really do feel that is steeping on people's rights and it does seem fairly Nazi to me (c'mon how many people moan because Hotmail has something similar in its EULA?).

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David T
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 21:10
Quote: "By attaching files to your forum messages you are giving The Game Creators automatic rights to distribute those files for free in any of their other sites / publications"


Why has that been included?

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 21:12
Quote: "By attaching files to your forum messages you are giving The Game Creators automatic rights to distribute those files for free in any of their other sites / publications"


i see nothing wrong. If you don't want your stuff stolen, don't post it!

You know you want it Straight-Up
MiR
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 21:19
It´s their server. I find no problem in them doing that. If I post a game and they put it on other sites etc that´s even better.

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Ian T
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 21:19 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 21:19
That one rule does seem wrong. I might post an image or document here to show some people in a thread that I wouldn't neccesarily want put on a TGC collection CD or the like without my specific permission...

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 21:23
Quote: "Why has that been included?"


Because in the (very) near future the file hosting part of the forum will be split off across servers dedicated to that. So by attaching a file you're granting us the right to replicate that file across our network, and if we so wish feature it in the newsletter.

You've made it public and free by posting it in the first place, this covers our backs if we want to make a thing about something uploaded (a cool piece of music, a screen shot, a demo game, etc). I guess the same ought to be said of your actual forum message text too, but that may be covered elsewhere.

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They grow old because they quit playing.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 21:24
A TGC collection CD wouldn't be free now, would it?

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They grow old because they quit playing.
David T
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 22:08
When the rule says "for free" - does it mean TGC pays nothing or TGC charges nothing?

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Jeku
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 22:12
I like the topic name as it is now. And the new rules are very logical. Even though I find it tempting to post my own views in some of those flamebait threads, nobody ever comes out of them with a changed mind--- just more certain about their opinion on the matter

Hopefully sports-related topics are okay--- hockey season's back after all

Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th Oct 2005 22:23
Quote: "When the rule says "for free" - does it mean TGC pays nothing or TGC charges nothing?"


Both

In the original context it means we will not sell it. So "charges nothing". Which is exactly what you've done by posting it in the first place.

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They grow old because they quit playing.
Benjamin
21
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Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 22:28
Quote: "Because in the (very) near future the file hosting part of the forum will be split off across servers dedicated to that. So by attaching a file you're granting us the right to replicate that file across our network, and if we so wish feature it in the newsletter."

But what if we don't have the rights to it the first place?

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soapyfish
21
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Joined: 24th Oct 2003
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 22:43
I actually thought it was reasonably funny when I scrolled down and saw 'geek culture'. I have no problem with it and at least it's original.

Thanks Rich, the new rules are a much appreciated addition.

*tries to think of witty and original signature*
*fails*

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