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PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY. IF YOU HAVE TO DIRECT ANYMORE POSTS TO ME, PLEASE E-MAIL ME. I DON'T WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HAVING A THREAD LOCKED. I STRONGLY URGE *ALL* OF YOU TO E-MAIL ME THAT WAY I CAN ATTEND YOUR E-MAILS AT MY OWN PACE AND WON'T HAVE TO SPEND 20 MINUTES EVERY FEW HOURS ON A 56K DIAL-UP CONNECTION! ALSO, I WILL NOT REFRAIN FROM ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS SO PLEASE DON'T HESISTATE TO GIVE ME EVERYTHING YOU'VE GOT (what I mean is I'll answer all your questions). THANK-YOU MY FRIENDS

Actually, the best advice I can give you is to pick up a book by Sisters of Loyola. There it explains our traditions and what we really do. When we make shrines and pictures and statues and we pray in front of them we do NOT pray to them. We pray in front of them. Why? Because we like to be REMINDED of the prescence of that person.

It is so sad that all you who have thus far have seen only the wrong side of what being a Catholic is about. We are not idol worshippers. We do NOT worship cats, dogs, cows, horses and even humans. We do NOT try and persecute others for any reason. We do NOT hate the Atheists and non-believers and even Satan worshippers. We DO love people. We DO pray to Mary and the saints not to worship them but to ask them to pray for us too. Prayers is the most powerful weapon ever and by ask more people to pray for you it's like that many more blades in your sword to fight whatever you're fighting, be it poverty, be it sexual perversion or addiction, be it temptation to fall into sin etc....


No it does nothing to harm me. You have had the misfortune of meeting the wrong people. I am a Catholic true. I am in a parish that, to some degree, runs more like a business than a real parish, true. And true, Churches do run like businesses sometimes. But if you've gone through Catholic schooling like I have, you would immediately spot your mistake in saying this. The Church is not a business. The Church is not full of uptight suits who don't care about God. The Church IS organic, it is people, it is hearts united under God. Early in the day, do you think Peter and Paul had a nice big building to celebrate the mass or say prayer. NO!!! They just said it then and there! Now you're thinking, so why can't we do that now? Why can't I forgive my own sins and cause my bread and wine from Safeways to become flesh and blood of Christ? Because who are you to do these things? Now you ask, who is the priest to do this? He is just a man no? Yes, he is a man. A man chosen by God and blessed by God to carry out the duties as Peter did. Priest do sin true, but there are other priests to cleanse him of his sins and so on and so forth. And do you think that while at the altar, they just break bread and serve it with wine? No!!! They always pray to God to cleanse them of any sins, make them worthy to carry out the duties entrusted to them. It is true that this isn't fool proof but what I say to that is "God works in mysterious ways" and of course "whatever He wants goes".

And WHEN did this become about criticising other people. FOCUS ON YOURSELF! IMPROVE YOURSELF! And help others if you can. Enough said? Amen?


Forgive me if this comes off as offensive. But how is your life? Is it as fullfilling as Churchgoers or Bible readers? The Church IS NOT about tradition and man-made "orders" as you put it. It is about love and peace and binding together as a family to face and defeat the evil in this world.


You're 101% right. I shouldn't blow you all off like that. I'm sorry . It's just that this is a developer forum. I don't want someone else to pay for this thread going off track (though which track it was on, I have no idea). And also, it is very difficult to reason with people who don't have the dicipline and patience to understand what I'm saying. Be honest; you've come here with a predisposition of despising everything I say. I don't have all the answers like you said and I can't excuse anything bad that's happened in the Church but you choose to believe the bad? I choose to believe the good. In people and in the Church alike. Jesus Himself said "If the world hates you, remember it hated me first".

@ HWT

I'm not going to email you personally. This shouldn't be trapped in your inbox for only you to hear.

Here's the definition of "idol":


Since people in the Catholic Church pray to Mary and saints they're making them deities (definition #1). The people of the Catholic Church are definately following definition #2 with the excessive love, honor and devotion for Mary.

An "idol" as defined by The Bible is something that comes before God. That of course can be anything. Jesus is part of the Godhead so therefore if you pray to Jesus you're praying to God. Mary and the saints are not God. Putting them before God means the people of the Catholic Church do worship Mary and the saints.

Whats the difference between these pictures?

A Shrine to Mary


A Shrine to Shiva


A Shrine to Buddah

@HWT

i would think the bible might be a better choice


i think the main purpose of the church, and every human, is to glorify God. Being loving is one way we can do that, and peaceful to some extents... i don't think we should be peaceful in the sense that we just sit back and let the world go by. We should try to tell others what we have found, and if they hate us for it, then we shouldn't be surprised... Jesus said there would be persecution and people wouldn't like us. The real reason we don't want to tell them is probably because we fear them more then we fear God.


now that i agree with... the building doesn't mean much at all, it's just a place for the church (which is the people) to meet.

anyhoo... this is about as far off-topic as you can get...

i really don't think talking on a forum about things like this accomplishes much... it's too hard to tell through "teh world wide webzorz" if somebody is being sincere.... or if they don't even believe in what they are typing

--teh pete

EricT, what in the world is your problem? The guy wants to stop the thread because of its obvious flamebaitness, not because he doesn't have answers.

@Grueslayer

Indeed, by as Mr. Ionstream so excellently said:

And also because I am a poor student with a limited dial-up connection time and a lot of university work to do (albeit, now it's break time). Therefore, please e-mail me if you have further questions as I can't go on doing this forever. Thank-you, friend.

Also, the difference between those pictures is the people in all of them (albeit none in the picture of Mary statue) are praying NOT to the idol but to the person whom the statue should remind them of. Please make this clear in your mind and please, PLEASE read my posts carefully. I hate to be bothered in the dead of night while checking for university e-mails only to find you have failed to get my meaning due to negligence. Honestly, it is quite irritating.


I know personally since I myself was addicted to evil for 4 years - I am still there, not quite finished with me yet, but Mary, bless her - she was the one who crushed the devil in his last attempt to enslave my soul. I thus pray to her for comfort, for strength, for the blessings of God and her Son.

@Peter
Yes, the Bible would be best, but as many of the people on this thread have displayed a lack of proper understanding of the Bible and since it doesn't go into detail of what the present day Churches traditions for holding mass, holy functions, I suggested my Confirmation book which tells these things excellently.

Yes, we must also glorify God but isn't loving each other and serving Him an excellent way of doing this too? In addition to word praise too?



That is true and I agree. Kudos to this statement


We don't ever fear God. What reason do we have to be afraid of God? We are His children. This is a common misconception my friend. Instead of being afraid of Him, we must *respect* Him. As for those whom we fear of telling about God, we must face this challenge and do it.

@ionstream

Yes - thankyou.

The bible tells us to fear God. Not in the terror sense, though. More like an awe sense.


Mary didn't die a virgin, you know, she had children of her own.

@ ionstream

Why do you think this is so?

why doesnt everyone just think about themselves and ignore others like me?

@ HWT

There is no difference... all are shrines to idols. I'm not attacking you personally... you grew up thinking this was ok. So of course you're going to justify worshiping Mary. If you have Mary as a vision in your head when you pray... you're not thinking about God or Jesus. You're thinking of a mortal woman that has no special powers.

I'm glad you're not as "addicted to evil" but Mary didn't do it for you. It was God. It's like if you spray on Shark Repellent and you don't get attacked by a shark... it's not the repellent that saved you.

When you pray you're making a phone call to Mary. You pick up the phone, dial her number, and you hear it ringing... you pray (while it's still ringing) and hang up. Mary is up there in Heaven... but she's not answering your calls. The person to call is Jesus... only he picks up the phone.

Mary wasn't on that cross to take our sins away.




Are you serious?!? Here's a quote from The Bible:



It's not you thats at fault here... I blame the Catholic Church for not wanting people to bring and research using their own Bibles. How can you keep people believing in the way you want them to believe?... make sure they don't learn the truth themselves.

I was joking, lol. Come on Ion, you of all people should know that I joke around with everything

Okay guys, the party is over. This board was deliberately changed to "Geek Culture" to avoid flamebait topics. If you want to debate religion, go find another board.