Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Indie Game Ratings

Author
Message
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 00:15
Link
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. The ESRB's rating system is available to every game designer around, and it's a free, non-profit service to get your game rated. But a lot of indie game developers never bother with it because unless you're EA or Activision or some other massive corporation, your game goes to the bottom of the list. Wigget could get Syndicate rated, Batvink could do the same for Potshot, and I could get Cheney Hunter it's deserved M rating, for example (or at least I like to pretend it'd earn an M rating). Point is, it's an available service, it adds some professional flair to your title, and no one in the indie game world seems to do it.

Let's change that.

Let's discuss what it would take to start an Indie Game Ratings board. Would it be useful? If so, why, and if not, why not? Would indie studios use the system? What would the ratings be? There's a plethora of questions that would need to be answered, but I think it's something worth discussing.... the positive and negative effects it would have on the industry. Anyway, what do you all think?

- Matt

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Hawkeye
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Sep 2003
Location: SC, USA
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 00:23
Link
Ya know, I've often thought of this myself - real game ratings by real game developers who KNOW what their game contains. If you're going about it in an attempt to warn people about possible violent content or whatever, just stick a big fuzzy "M" on there with the ESRB logo edited out.

On the other hand, a real board would be cool indeed, the only problem is organizing it


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 00:32
Link
Organizing it wouldn't be a problem for me right now. My main 3D project is on indefinite hold because one of my team members had an accident, and I'm making a 2D project but it's far more relaxed... thus I have plenty of free time.

But what would we need? I think we'd need a webmaster/ designer who could host a site, a basic 2D artist who could envision and create the various rating labels, and a ton of people who'd be willing to play indie games and rate them, plus we'd need to create an e-board to serve as an upper management staff.

If we allowed each game designer to rate their own game, it'd be cheating. For instance, in my new 2D game there's a decent amount of potty language, blood, and gore. It should recieve our board's equivilent of the ESRB's "M" rating. But if I were rating it myself, I could simply give it a "T" rating and avoid the mess of parents not allowing their kids to play it. I'm not saying I would do that, but if I were rating it myself, I'd be capable of it. And as we all know, trust systems don't always work... someone will cheat the system eventually, and unfortunately more often than not it'll happen regularly.

I think we'd need to find a full staff of game developers AND plain old-fashioned gamers to rate the games fully. We could have paypal donations to fund the board, plus indie developers could donate specifically to the ratings officials who play-test their products... it would be nice, since they'd be donating large amounts of time to the project.

I've been toying with this idea for a few years but haven't had the free time to really think about it or try to put the ball in play... so alot of my ideas are still un-refined. Hopefully this can turn into something cool

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 03:59
Link
I don't believe the ESRB is a free service, BTW, but who knows.

Anyways, this is a pretty good idea (if the ESRB is in fact not free). You would need to have the developers submit the details of language, violence, nudity, and other headers. If the developers aren't honest, then the ratings system would really fall apart (hot coffee, anyone?). The ESRB doesn't play every single aspect of the game that I know of, so it's a really tough job rating them without the writeups.

Good luck, though. I would be interested in being a "rater"


Automaton Games website has been revamped! Check it out!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
BearCDPOLD
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Oct 2003
Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 04:06
Link
Ooh pick me.

I think it would be good to craft a system different than the ESRB. The content of your typical indie game is different than commercial games (ESRB doesn't always seem to do a good job anyway...). If you could make the rating system more informative, then parents might be more inclinced to buy their kids that little game they found on the internet. Gamers who prefer blue skies would also be more attracted games labeled with having blue sky content.

Here's another interested in rating.


I'm going to eat you!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 06:31 Edited at: 28th Feb 2006 06:42
Link
To my knowledge, the ESRB provides ratings for free, but they base when they rate your game on how much money you're spending on marketing. They'll take care of the big, multi-million dollar corporate titles long before they get to us... and that's why we should create this system.

I've given this a lot of thought today... let me know what you guys think and if any of you are interested in taking one of these titles. Even though I created this, I don't really want to be President or Vice President (although I want to be on the e-board somewhere). I'll be "President" until we elect someone whose better at this stuff

Anyway, I think the e-board should have the following people on it. Please note that this is basically the e-board of my old college radio station, but re-adapted to this ratings committee:

President: Serves as the chief executive and acts as the top brass when it comes to e-board meetings and whatnot

Vice President: Acts as a vice president and will have some specific group of tasks assigned to him or her

Program Director: In charge of keeping the ratings up-to-date, bringing new ratings options to the attention of the e-board and providing examples of why these new ratings are necessary (or why old ratings aren't anymore)

General Manager: Directs the ratings officials and performs general quality control

Webmaster: Creates the committee's website and keeps it fully updated

Treasurer: Responsible for any and all fiscal matters, including the maintenance and application of donated funds

Public Relations Director: Responsible for promoting the ratings system and finding new developers who are interested in using our service.

As I've said before, this service should be free and only available to indie developers... meaning we need to draw up parameters that define what indie projects really are. Do we do this based on the team's/company's project budget? If so, what's the cap at which we say "sorry, go to the ESRB?"

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Van B
Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 11:19
Link
How about just using icons. Like get someone to make some explicit icons, like a pair of cartoon boobies for nudity, a severed head for decapitations, a blood splatter for gore, etc etc. Then we'd just sprite the relevant ones onto the title screen or menu.

If you over-think this, nobody will stick to it, it'd be easier to let people rate their own games using a standard scale. For instance if I released a game with lots of gore, I'd happily add the relevant icons, it's easier and nicer than dealing with complaints and it's something you could add five minutes before releasing a project. When a project is good to go, nobody wants to submit it to a seperate body for classification, they want it uploaded and earning kudo's all over the place.


Van-B

Put away, those fiery biscuits!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Joh
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jul 2004
Location: Malaysia
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 16:29
Link
While there is alot of merit for having a rating system. Are there any negative repercussions to rating your indie game.

I believe Australia does not have a M rating for video games, like they do for movies. Thus any game with an M rating is banned, only because current legislation has no category for it, nothing to do with actual review of content. I'm not 100% on this, just from what I remember reading about.

"I dont think I like the idea of my little photon being touched up by a switched off proggy and finishing off without ever actually getting inside." - Fallout
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Drunken Fiesta
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Dec 2005
Location:
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 18:16
Link
That's really just the fault of Australia having a seriously messed up system to handle this sorta thing.
I imagine an indy game's rating system could work pretty well if handled correctly. Although I don't see how you could make it more accurate than the ESRB. For short games that only last a few hours, yah, but if someone were to make some epic RPG there's no way you could view all the content, you'd need to trust their word on what's in the game.
The real issue would be making it effective. Most people are used to G, PG, PG-13, R, and NC-17 for movies, and many recognize E, T, M, and AO for games but not quite as much. I blame it mostly on many parents being ignorant whether by choice (refusing to admit games aren't soley for kids no matter what they hear) or not and thinking games are still for kids, while the age of the average gamer is mid-late 20s, and game designers are going to make games focusing on all age groups, not just the 12 and under. We'd need a centralized web site and maybe a small banner indy game makers can put by their games that would link to the website so parents can get a better understanding of what exactly everything means.
Also, the icon idea sounds good, but a general rating would also be needed and the icons might want to be toned down. It would do no good to say "Stop here if you don't want to see any violence" while right next to that there's a picture of some guy getting his head lobbed off. It's like a kid comming across a porn site that says "This site contains adult content - do not go further unless you wish to view it" yet there's already girls getting naked or whatnot, why take further steps to block it if you're parading it from the start?
It would probably be better for things like mild violence to have a drawing of a sword or a gun, or for a drugs & alcohol icon to have a bottle on it, and could go by color to represent how exteme the content is, either green, yellow, or red. An extremely violent game like GTA: San Andreas (commercial games used as examples soley because of familiarity) or Resident Evil 4 would have a red gun icon, or a mildly violent game like Dragon Quest VIII would have a green gun icon. Another idea would be assigning everything a level 1, 2, or 3 rather than color, with 1 being the mildest and 3 being the most intense as there probably are people still out there with black & white tvs or monitors or even colorblind people.
As for what would qualify as an indie game that could be rated, I admit I'm not too familiar with the business side yet so my estimates may be even rougher than I think they are, but maybe a game in which the total budget falls under $5,000 (as that's more than enough to cover programming, art, and music software as well as necessary hardware) or has no budget at all.
Also, no matter what, it would have to stay entirely voluntary. It's possible that many indie developers are staying indipendant because they'd rather game design stays a hobby and something they do soley for the enjoyment rather than get into commercial development and complicate their hobby with money, and they may find a forced rating system to be a threat to their ways.
Back to top
Profile PM
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 19:41
Link
I agree about self-rating Van, but unfortunately not everyone is as trustworthy as some of us. As Jeku pointed out previously, take Rockstar for example. They lied to the ESRB because they knew that with Hot Coffee in place, they'd never get the game published with an "M" rating, and most stores won't carry "A" rated games. In the indie world, I'm sure the same would apply. If we're too trusting of people, people will walk on the ratings and they'll lose merit.

But I agree that indie teams want to release their games quickly and efficiently, and submittal for ratings would slow that process considerably. So how do we speed up that process? I think that's a definite question we should attempt to solve.

Idea: You submit your game for a rating, but if you don't want to wait for one of our ratings officials to check the content, you pay a self-rating fee based on the trust system. You'd tag your game as Not-Rated, but you'd also tag your game with your internal rating. Then, after we rate the game, you'd re-tag its releases after that point with our rating.

In fact, it might be a good idea to have both ratings appear... or would that take up too much space? I'm thinking that maybe we should have the indie studio rate the game themselves, but we rate it also... or would that be a waste of space and time?

Joh, you also have a valid point. There are some negative side-effects of having a rating on your title. But we'd make it elective... you don't have to get your game rated, and as a committee we could simply avoid countries like Australia that ban certain games. That way, games released there are unrated and thus the Australian Government can't be [expletive deleted] mongers.

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 19:52
Link
I posted and found Fiesta's post after I made the post, so let me comment on it briefly:

I think the reason they use letters in most ratings systems is because they're easy to remember. Images are slightly harder to remember, but then again they speak for themselves, so we need to figure out why they use letters instead of images to rate games.

For a lot of indie projects, $5,000 is a lot of money... but for some, it's chump change. I think we need to poll indie designers to find out what the largest sums of money are that they've ever spent on producing a game. Keep in mind that while some indie developers use the tools and resources that we do, others go the distance and spend thousands of dollars on software for modeling, GUI design, bug decoding, etc. I think something more along the lines of $50,000 would be more accurate.

Likewise, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd spend about $2 mil on my indie games... but would they still be indie? That's another hurdle we need to jump: are your games indie because of your budget, or are they indie because you aren't tied to a major studio, or both?

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Perokreco
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Apr 2005
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 21:10
Link
But if you had 2mil for a game you would surely publish it and had ESRB review it.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 21:12
Link
True, but for the sake of arguement, let's just assume I'd prefer our indie rating

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 22:04
Link
There's probably no point in asking a company what their budget is--- that's very personal information for indie developers I think. I mean, a large videogame company is *not* going to get the indie rating as it is, so they should rate all the games that come through the door, regardless of how large they are.

If you have a system where it's first come first served, then everyone has an equal waiting time and nobody can accuse them of serving the big guys first.


Automaton Games website has been revamped! Check it out!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 23:08
Link
Agreed. That makes the most sense actually. So we won't have any parameters that the developers will need to meet in order to get their game rated.

But I think Van's point, that most indie developers won't want to wait for their projects to be rated, is a valid one. How can we address that? If everything is first-come first-served, but we only have, say, twelve ratings officials, it could end up being a fairly long wait. Does anyone else agree with my idea, that they can rate their own game if their in a hurry but we'd charge them a small fee, and we might make them change their rating? Or is that unfair/ impractical? And what's a fair price to charge? Obviously it's going to need to stay relatively cheap, else no one will want to use it. And I think getting your wait-in-line rating should be free for all users.

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Toby Quan
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Oct 2003
Location: U S A
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 00:03 Edited at: 1st Mar 2006 00:05
Link
As far as I understand, ratings are required if a game is sold at a store, such as at Target.

In the same way that CD's must contain the "Explicit Lyrics" logo if they contain explicit lyrics, and if it is going to be sold in a store.

If it isn't going to be sold in a store, it doesn't need the rating.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Joh
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jul 2004
Location: Malaysia
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 00:08
Link
Quote: "why they use letters instead of images"

Images, probably just for iconic recognition in print media, displays and on the shelves etc. Letters of course easier for documents. hmm must be a font/glyph set for ratings somewhere.

My general understanding for Independant Game Developer are those that are not tied to a publisher. Regardless of company size and/or budget. Also something with original IP, since you may not be directly tied to publisher but contracted by a publisher. Which then makes you a third party developer or something like that.

Most developers have a general idea of the rating they want to target or which category they will fall under, during the design and concept stages of development. A comprehensive design document should be accepted to get your application in queue. Final ratings approval is given during beta or gold. This will give developers time to include the rating for packaging,print,press etc.

"I dont think I like the idea of my little photon being touched up by a switched off proggy and finishing off without ever actually getting inside." - Fallout
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 00:10
Link
Just because we don't need something doesn't make it less useful. For instance, your program will run fine without rem statements, but we use them anyway because they're helpful and informative. I think there's plenty of benefits to be had for both developers and consumers alike from having a well-designed ratings system.

For one, it would help make indie games look more professional. Secondly, it would help parents decide what downloadable content their kids should play. Third, it could help the consumer choose if the game has content that they'd be interested in. Have you ever picked up a game and set it back down because it had some specific rating? Most of us don't, but for some people, that rating is pretty important.

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Hawkeye
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Sep 2003
Location: SC, USA
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 00:11
Link
Hmm. Quite honestly I'd just bypass all this fuss and slap whatever I thought would beting (with an explication somewheres) on the loading screen and leave it at that. No a fair raneed to mention the ESRB or this possible indi company at all.


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 00:14
Link
I like Joh's idea of submitting design documents and rating during testing. They could change some content in the last stretch but I doubt it would be an occurence that was so regular it was problematic.

Like I said, this obviously wouldn't be for everyone. I think there's some developers who would appreciate this ratings system and would consider it to be beneficial. I for one would love to have a ratings system that I could impliment in my games, one that's universal to all indie games and that people can recognize.

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 00:36
Link
Another idea would be to give each rated game a unique URL to publish along with their game (i.e. start menu link, manual, readme, etc.) that would be purely voluntary for them to publish. Basically it would go to the official indie rating site and the site would display something like "WordTrix 2.0 has been rated T for Teens".

This would enforce them to go through the indie rating company--- so they won't just lie and use our logo and say it is "this and this" rating. They also wouldn't be able to steal another game's URL as it would display their game title prominently.

Just an idea


Automaton Games website has been revamped! Check it out!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
BearCDPOLD
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Oct 2003
Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 01:16
Link
I like that page idea, then you can get comments from the raters to further clarify on the content of the game.

Anybody have any more thoughts on icons versus letters?

If you went with letters you would want to use some different letters from other rating systems to avoid confusion, look at ESRB vs MPAA.


I'm going to eat you!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 01:53 Edited at: 1st Mar 2006 02:27
Link
I love that idea Jeku... it's a good way to keep people from knocking off our ratings system and there's a full avenue of ideas that can flow from that concept. Maybe consumers could provid the game their own rating via a polling system so that other consumers can see what people think the game should be rated in their opinions.

I'm down with the idea of icons as opposed to letters. Letters have been done before and this would help our ratings system stand out tremendously. But I think we shouldn't have a single icon for each thing... for example, what if I made a game about killing hookers? Especially if it were me (lol), I'd need a nudity icon, a blood/ gore icon, a strong language icon, etc... and probably a drug use icon, too. Some of the more "hardcore" games that have extremely adult content would have half of their box covered in ratings icons.

I think we should have an age system like everyone else, but try to improve on their system (if that's even possible). The icons could show, for instance, a baby if the game is rated for "everyone," a teenager if it's rated for teens, or a senior citizen (complete with walking assistance apparatus) for adult games... not that we should use these specifically, but maybe something along these lines?

(edited to test out my new signature image)


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Cian Rice
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Jun 2004
Location:
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 02:45
Link
I'd like to make a contribution with an idea on the actual ratings. (Age-Wise)

+3+
+7+
+11+
+13+
+15+
+18+

I based it off of teh PEGI system because I personally think it's more effective than the ESRB in rating. Also if this gets off the ground send me an email and I can make the graphics that say the ratings if their needed since thats all I would actually have time to do.

[url=http://profile.mygamercard.net/Fryedrycestyle]

[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Benjamin
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 02:51
Link
Can 3 year olds even use the computer?

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin - 70%
Back to top
Profile PM Email
SirFire
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Apr 2005
Location: North America
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 02:58 Edited at: 1st Mar 2006 03:46
Link
My daughter has been using a computer since before she was 1 year old. I made it myself, it's all-touchscreen with no keyboard or mouse, and she touches shapes on the screen to interact with it, and it rewards her for learning by showing cartoons, or playing disney music. I can monitor her over the LAN using remote administration software, as well as turn on a webcam and microphone to monitor her.

It's time to upgrade the mobo and graphics card though, b/c she really likes Zuma and some of the games "daddy" plays like shmups. She just turned two and already she needs a 3d graphics card



Anywho, the point I was trying to make is that there are very young children out there playing games.

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Peter H
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Feb 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 03:37
Link
what's to stop somebody just copying one of your rating images and slapping it on their game?

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
Back to top
Profile PM Email
dark coder
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 03:44
Link
well on the back of dvd cases they have things like contains volence and whatever they seem to make sence as anyone can read will understand it, so why would you need images and things? and the age system is just a joke how many people actually care? they still try to sue companys when some 10yr old kid played and 18game.

Halowed are the ori.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 04:32
Link
@ Peter: We covered that earlier... Jeku's web system


@ Dark Coder: The point is, the ratings are valuable. I'm not a parent, but I have a neice and a younger cousin (whose like a nephew), and when I'm taking care of either of them I like to monitor what games they play. I think enforcing these ratings would be pretty handy for almost everyone involved... except 9-year old Timmy who can't buy his T&A game because of it.

I think we should use sort of a PEGI/ ESRB hybrid. Are there games out there that a 7 year old can play but a 3 year old can't? If so, what games and why?


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
JoelJ
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2003
Location: UTAH
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 04:55 Edited at: 1st Mar 2006 04:55
Link










good idea tho


This just in: White lab coats cause cancer in mice. Details comming soon.

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 18:18
Link
I've given this quite a bit of thought. What do all of you think of a ratings system like this:

4 and under (for edutainment games, mostly, and games with absolutely no violence, language, etc.)

13+ (for games with mischief, comic violence)

17+ (for games with brief nudity, sexual themes, drug/ alchohol use, graphic violence, etc.)

18+ (For the games I make Nudity, sex, extreme violence... the worst of the worst)

Then, beside the age icon we could put a single image icon for the strongest content in the game, meaning we'd need to create a ladder of bad stuff and figure out what we (and most others) consider to be worse than other stuff. This would keep games from earning too many icons. Anyway, let me know if this is good or bad and why.


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
BearCDPOLD
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Oct 2003
Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 05:03
Link
I like your idea of putting the strongest icon. If it's really extreme you may need a couple, but it seems that there's just always that one thing that makes a game inappropriate for some audiences. You could have a small web url leading to the ratings site where people interested in reading further about the content can look at the specific page for each game.

Maybe it's just me though, but having a difference between 17 and 18 years old doesn't make much sense to me. It might make more sense to knock the 17 down to 15 or 16 and make the 13 an 11 or 12. All the general E-ratingish games would get the 5-11 (or 10, wuhtevah).


I'm going to eat you!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 06:04
Link
That does make sense actually. There really isn't much point making a big deal between 17 and 18. So how about this new hierchy:

4 And Under
10+
13+
17+

10+ would be for games that should require adult supervision, and 13+ would be games with comic michief but aren't so hardcore that kids would be traumatized. And perhaps we should add a flat-out "Adult" rating, which 17-year olds could buy too, but that warns people that those games are the crem-dela-crem (sp?) of nasty content. It'd be the equivilent of A-O games or NC-17 movies.


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 3rd Mar 2006 00:05
Link
We should also discuss what content icons we'll need specifically. Do we intricately classify various degrees of violence, or do we just say "mild" and "extreme" violence? How many icons do we need total?


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
the_winch
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Feb 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 3rd Mar 2006 00:30 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2006 00:33
Link
Quote: "I've given this quite a bit of thought. What do all of you think of a ratings system like this:"


I think it's pretty pointless for indi games. The big visible logos work for commercial games because the child can wander off into the store and get a game. The parent can then quickly work out if the game is suitable without knowing anything about it. It also keeps the anti game people a little happier.

The only people that take any notice of them are kids looking for forbidden fruit and some parents. Everybody else just ignores them.
Most indi games appear to go after other markets so why bother?

If I am going to buy an indi game I read the site, look at screenshots and try the demo. If after all that I still don't know who the game is suitible for then your promotional material must be horrific. Fixing it so people can actually see what they are buying is going to do a lot more than a small logo.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
TDP Enterprises
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Mar 2005
Location: on or in front of my computer
Posted: 3rd Mar 2006 01:42
Link
i like the esrb's way of ranking all the violence intensive games at the 17+ level, but the nudity-sex-games in another ranking

Snow Wars is making its return, check out the Game Design Theory board for more info...
Back to top
Profile PM
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 3rd Mar 2006 01:55
Link
@ The Winch: But that logo might bring a level of professionalism to the table that indie games don't usually have. For game designers, it's a marketing tool. Our ratings committee's website is another avenue of publication for their projects. For parents, we'd stress (and advertise) that they should understand our ratings system and apply it to the games their children play. I think it's useful and if we had this up and running I would use it for the games I produce.


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Manticore Night
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Oct 2003
Location: Ouinnipeg
Posted: 3rd Mar 2006 02:13
Link
Quote: "like a pair of cartoon boobies for nudity, "
That might be considered porn by somepeople. Maybe have something along those lines but not copying ESRB. I could make some icons, just say go.

[center]It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)

He's back! With 20% less intelligence!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 3rd Mar 2006 19:55
Link
I agree with Manticore, the boobies thing will be offensive to some people.

I'm going to try to stay on this ratings system thing, but if you've read my other thread you know that I'm having a personal crisis right now and might not be around for a while, in which case I'll try to work on this more when I come back and hope that people are still interested.


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 17th Mar 2006 02:02
Link
Okay, after moving and finally getting some freetime, I've decided to spend an hour of my afternoon working on this concept, and I've come up with the following ratings system. Let me know what you think of this, and if it works, I'll get the wheels in motion for actually implementing it and we can get the icons done:

Each age is, simply enough, represented by the age symbol. The age ranges we'd include would be Under 4, 4+, 10+, 13+, 17+, and Adult. 17+ can buy Adult games, but the Adult rating is used merely to identify the product as particularly "grown up" in terms of content.

Next, we use a hybrid of Van's idea and display a single icon representing the worst content in the game.

Thirdly, we use Jeku's idea and put up a webpage for each game with a full description of the game's rating, including comments by the game's submission developer AND the ratings official who scored the product.

All ratings will be treated based on a first-come, first-served basis. You can expedite your rating by paying a small self-rating fee (this will be a figure that we vote to deem as fair for indie studios). If you do this, you can place a self-rated logo on your game, but if after we test your game we decide on a different rating, your previous rating will be void and it must be changed within an alotted period of time.

All ratings can be appealed to our e-board. In the event of an appeal, the e-board itself will playtest the game and give it a rating. Appealing a rating would be cause for us to charge a small appeal fee.

All of these services (unless otherwise stated) would be free of charge for all indie game studios. The ratings board would only experience monetary gain when (A) a studio pays for self-rating, (B) a rating is appealed, or (c) a person or party donates funds to our cause. Donations would be welcome and encouraged (for the sake of the ratings official who tested the game), but by no means mandatory.


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Cian Rice
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Jun 2004
Location:
Posted: 17th Mar 2006 02:14
Link
I'd like to help out in some way if I can. I'm particulary good with 2D graphics.

[url=http://profile.mygamercard.net/Fryedrycestyle]

[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 17th Mar 2006 22:22
Link
This is the third offer we've had for the icon work... maybe you could do a logo for the committee or something?


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Halo Man
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Nov 2005
Location:
Posted: 17th Mar 2006 23:38 Edited at: 18th Mar 2006 15:13
Link
This is actually a good idea, it could tell people a small idea about what is in the game before trying a demo, which would save them time. I'll help if i can.

Halo!!1one
Back to top
Profile PM
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 18th Mar 2006 00:37 Edited at: 18th Mar 2006 00:41
Link
I will build the backend for the site if need be as I'm a self-proclaimed PHP/Ajax guru And I have way more webspace and domain name control than I need with my host

EDIT:

Wow, come to think of it it's scary when I think I've been using PHP and MySQL since 1999. That's like 7 years ago. CLAZY.

EDIT 2:

We need a site designer (Megaton, maybe?) and a few indie games that are finished to rate. Therefore we can have some games out there immediately.


Automaton Games website has been revamped! Check it out!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Cian Rice
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Jun 2004
Location:
Posted: 18th Mar 2006 00:58
Link
I could make a template if someone else could slice it up and do an image map,etc.

And sure I'll make a logo.

[url=http://profile.mygamercard.net/Fryedrycestyle]

[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Megaton Cat
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 18th Mar 2006 03:41 Edited at: 18th Mar 2006 04:00
Link
As a vigorous indie gamer, I see absolutly zero point in bothering with an ESRB system for this. But if Jeku's actually involved in this, then you guys must be doing something right?

I'd help out anyway.
(If we're lucky, we might even generate some ad revenue)

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Matt Rock
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 18th Mar 2006 04:12
Link
Yummy ad revenue!

If you guys want to get crackin' on the site, and Anime is doing the logo... CRAP! All that's left for me to do is the boring administrative stuff I'll write up a charter, a business plan, an ethics code, all of that fun stuff. If we aren't professional about this no one will take us (or more importantly, our ratings) seriously.


"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Paddy's day all year long" ~ Christopher, The Sopranos
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Cian Rice
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Jun 2004
Location:
Posted: 18th Mar 2006 17:50
Link
Okay, what exactly will the commitee be called so I can make this logo? Just the Indie Gaming Rating Board or something similar?

[url=http://profile.mygamercard.net/Fryedrycestyle]

[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Manticore Night
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Oct 2003
Location: Ouinnipeg
Posted: 19th Mar 2006 04:41 Edited at: 19th Mar 2006 04:43
Link
Quote: "Indie Gaming Rating Board"
That's a pretty good name. IGRB kind of has a ring to it.

It's better than somthing along the lines of Community Rating Approval People or something along those lines.

[center]It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)

He's back! With 20% less intelligence!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeku
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 19th Mar 2006 05:16
Link
It does have a good, professional sound to it. Although I would probably call it Independent Game Rating Board instead.

By the way, there is already an indie rating board---- so do we even need another? http://www.tigrs.org Not sure how much they're used, though...


Automaton Games website has been revamped! Check it out!
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-16 19:27:35
Your offset time is: 2024-11-16 19:27:35