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Geek Culture / Windows Vista demo is now available!

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hyrichter
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 18:40
Quote: "why in all of the screenshots are the displays so....shrunken and discolored?"

It's because they don't have their video card drivers installed.
Quote: "Looks like vista will be worse than xp for adding mouseclicks to what should be simple tasks."

Well, I'd say Microsoft is between a rock and a hard spot here. On one hand, they have all the security nuts and Linux fanboys saying "OMG1!1eleventy, WinXP is so easy to h4xx0rz! Its so full of security flaws, blah, blah....M$ has to make Vista more secure, blah, blah..." So Microsoft decides to make security a little more hardened, but doing so makes it a little more inconvenient for the average user. I hope there are settings to turn off features like that, or to modify your security settings. Unfortunately, it's going to be just as full of security holes and need just as many patches as Win XP, except now it'll be more annoying.

mm0zct
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 19:34 Edited at: 11th Jun 2006 19:37
for those of you moaning about the screenshots having messed up graphics here's my 64bit vista in operation
the glow efect on the window maximize, minimize and close buttons when you pass the cursor over them is quite nice (it glows not just on the button but around it) and so what if it's been inspired by linux and OS-X, isn't that a good thing?

AMD athlon 64 3000+, 1GB ddr400, 400GB total hdd, ati radeon x700pro 256mb (pci-e), onboard nvidea graphics (6100 chipset, sharing 128mb ram) 3x17" tft(@1280x1024).

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 19:45
Its nice

Come to the last Unofficial DBPro Convention (http://convention.logicstudios.net/)
Dont do anything I wouldn't do. But if you do, take pictures.
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 19:53 Edited at: 11th Jun 2006 19:56
looks sexay, I havent done much research on Vista, so, could someone please explain to me, besides the purdyfull new graphics, what does Vista have to offer me that XP doesnt?

Edit: Meaning a year or so down the road when i drop $3k on a laptop, am i going to be better off having vista on there with less operating power going to the programs, or XP?

Snow Wars is making its return, check out the Game Design Theory board for more info...
the_winch
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 19:57 Edited at: 11th Jun 2006 19:58
Quote: "Well, I'd say Microsoft is between a rock and a hard spot here. On one hand, they have all the security nuts and Linux fanboys saying "OMG1!1eleventy, WinXP is so easy to h4xx0rz! Its so full of security flaws, blah, blah....M$ has to make Vista more secure, blah, blah..." So Microsoft decides to make security a little more hardened, but doing so makes it a little more inconvenient for the average user."


I think you caught the wrong end of the stick. I wasn't saying using a normal user account and asking for the admin password when needed is a bad thing. I was saying all the info can easily be shown on a single dialog so all you have to do is type your password and hit enter. That's the way os x and linux do it without any problems.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
hyrichter
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 20:59
Ok, I get what you're saying there. I don't see any problem with asking for the password when needed either. But I think it would be a good idea if you could set which features required a password (maybe it's possible, I have no idea)

Kenjar
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 21:02
I'm sorry, I don't like change, and I've always hated the XP style of doing things, plus the standard theme slows down your PC. Frankly I'm happy with the windows classic theme.



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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 21:04
so what are the actual new features of vista? does someone have a link to a page describing them or could someone please list them?

Snow Wars is making its return, check out the Game Design Theory board for more info...
Kenjar
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 21:08
Quote: "Well, I'd say Microsoft is between a rock and a hard spot here. On one hand, they have all the security nuts and Linux fanboys saying "OMG1!1eleventy, WinXP is so easy to h4xx0rz! Its so full of security flaws, blah, blah....M$ has to make Vista more secure, blah, blah..." So Microsoft decides to make security a little more hardened, but doing so makes it a little more inconvenient for the average user. I hope there are settings to turn off features like that, or to modify your security settings. Unfortunately, it's going to be just as full of security holes and need just as many patches as Win XP, except now it'll be more annoying."


Running new programs is a right pain the ass in Vista, it's like having a firewall pop-up every time you try to access your own hard drive. If I double click on "Setup.exe" I don't want a message 5 seconds later asking me if I really want to run the program I just double clicked on, nor do I want it asking me if I want to run any program the program just I double clicked on is trying to launch. I have virus checkers and spyware checkers to insure that I'm not installing malware or spyware, let them do their job. Now if it's a case of a remote user trying to launch applications on my account, that's another matter, and if it's a case of Internet explorer trying to install an active X, java, or execuitable program on my system, then I'm more then happy to accept that style of doing things. But I'm A) logged in under an administrative profile, and B) double clicking on these files myself. It's just slowing me down.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 22:52
Quote: "does someone have a link to a page describing them or could someone please list them?"

You do realise that Microsoft have their own website...

Come to the last Unofficial DBPro Convention (http://convention.logicstudios.net/)
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Shark
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Posted: 11th Jun 2006 23:01
How are you guys/girls using Windows Vista? Dual boot etc.

Hi
Kenjar
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 00:13
Yes, I've got one installed on sperate partitions.

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Ian T
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 02:19
Two particular cool new things I like:

http://www.iant.lanejump.com/vista_cool.PNG
http://www.iant.lanejump.com/vista_cool_2.JPG


Vista is funny:



And one other thing:

From slashdot and similar sites/articles I got the impression that Vista was unusable on anything less than a gigabyte of RAM with a 1.8ghz or better processor. This is definatly not true - I've been running it on my rig with 428 (!) gigabytes of 100mhz SDRAM (that's crappy RAM to hardware newbies) with a low-gen Pentium Four and a GeForce FX 5200 video card.

It's a little more sluggish than XP, starts up and shuts down slower, and the index took forever to build itself, but apart from that it's actually nice. It hasn't actually crashed for me once, although certain applets have problems and not all the features are in.

The new explorer interface and graphical elements are pretty as hell, hardware installation has been vastly improved, and there are a lot of other little evolutionary improvements I like. If you have a free partition I really recommend giving it a shot. Just don't upgrade your main OS since you can't roll back.

TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 03:29
Quote: "Quote: "does someone have a link to a page describing them or could someone please list them?"
You do realise that Microsoft have their own website..."

sorry, yeah i realised that, but id like to hear from someone using it what sets it apart from xp besides the graphics and the supposed tighter security

Snow Wars is making its return, check out the Game Design Theory board for more info...
Oddmind
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 08:03 Edited at: 12th Jun 2006 08:04
Ugh i hated it.

It wont recognize the two pieces of hardware int the PCI slots, my gfx card and my wireless card. but my graphics look fine, just no drivers installed.

I also cant get my wireless card to work, the drivers that came with it on the CD never have worked, I used the windows alternative drivers or /we happens when you select "add hardware".

I cant find any sort of "add hardware" option on vista, ill look some more without getting sick.

EDIT: btw
Quote: "
ill try it at collage, will have to try and borrow an external HDD."


Do they teach you how to spell at "collage" I think its funny that everytime you type it you type an a instead of an e...

its College... collage is like a bunch of pictures put together...

formerly KrazyJimmy

I'm the lizard king, I can do anything.
Kenjar
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 12:49
It's a beta, you can't expect it to have total hardware support yet. Drivers for hardware are down to your vendor, not microsoft.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 13:13
Quote: "but id like to hear from someone using it what sets it apart from xp besides the graphics and the supposed tighter security
"

Technically there isn't anything thats in Vista that you really need - the constant messages about approving software could become a pain, for example.

However, I think the extra stablility of drivers (I believe they have to become WHQL'd for Vista to accept them, although the beta seemed to like non-WHQL'd ones), the new look, extra protection (cant save to the root of the C drive for example), and DirectX enhancements may be enough for most people.

Come to the last Unofficial DBPro Convention (http://convention.logicstudios.net/)
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Ian T
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 18:16
The extended Explorer functionality is frankly good enough for me. Working, fast indexing? Excellent. Mass renaming files when copying over identically named ones? Finally? Yes fuggin' please.

TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 18:24 Edited at: 12th Jun 2006 18:26
So let me get this straight, next year when i get my laptop for college, I'll need to dish out $2500+ to get a laptop that will be able to handle Vista and run applications faster than my curent computer running XP? Whereas if i were to get the same laptop with XP on it, I'd have a lightning fast computer? It's not so much the money I'm worried about as my parents promised me that if I make it to college next year they'll buy me a laptop with enough power to do the above, but its the whole idea of Vista that bothers me. Why could'nt they have released XP SP3 and just fixed all the minor annoyances that XP has along with the security holes. I would understand if they went back and rebuilt windows from scratch, but its my understanding that they didnt.

Snow Wars is making its return, check out the Game Design Theory board for more info...
Oddmind
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 19:16
TDP your forgetting that half the market is in fact buying it for the looks >_<. Its all about the money coming from it.

formerly KrazyJimmy

I'm the lizard king, I can do anything.
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 19:58
Its jsut going to suck for me ecause ill finally have my dream laptop, but it will end up performing like my $300 emachine because all the proccessing power goes to Vista ARGGGHHH

Snow Wars is making its return, check out the Game Design Theory board for more info...
Kenjar
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 19:58
Basically TDP there is only one real reason for getting Vista. DirectX 10. Microsoft will not be releasing it to XP or previous system. The secuity holes don't affect the average user, if you're running a buisness, fine it's an issue, but are you really important enough for a hacker to try and attack your system? I know I'm not, and you've got a firewall in XP, and virus software and spyware software is all you really need to protect your machine.

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 20:02 Edited at: 12th Jun 2006 20:06
Yeah i dont think i need to worry about a hacker tryign to get at my term papers...

But i dont need DX10, I dont game on the computer, thats what muh 360/N64/DS is for.

EDIT: Nvm that last sentence was a lie, i play outdated games from the 90's on the PC, like the old command and conquers, and half life is always a classic, along with a little gem called Tzar.

EDIT #2: What kind of beast am i going to need to buy in order to run Vista while maintaining ultra-fast application sppeds?

Snow Wars is making its return, check out the Game Design Theory board for more info...
Kenjar
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 20:36 Edited at: 12th Jun 2006 20:41
If you don't game on the computer there is no reason at all for windows vista, steer clear of it. Just get XP home, you won't need anything more than that, the professional version is for users who need to manage networks and user accounts. If you've got 64-bit on your machine then get XP 64-bit edition, really for typing up a school report, or managing project Vista has no benefits.

If you are looking for a gaming machine to support vista and games I recommend the following specification to maintain speed.

AMD 64-Bit 3500+
2 Gigabytes of RAM
nVidia nForce 7600GT or GS (depending on budget) 256Mb graphics card

If you are getting an AM2 socket based system to maintain upgradability for as long as possible, make sure you get the PC6400 RAM. Also make sure you have a quick hard disk drive, the samsung 250Gb 8Mb had a very good review, it outproformed other drives in it's class dispite having half the memory cache.

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Jeku
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 20:56
Quote: "I would understand if they went back and rebuilt windows from scratch, but its my understanding that they didnt."


Erm, they did.

Didn't they?

"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 20:59
Like i said, i havent done much research on it but i think i read in an earlier thread on here that they used a lot of the same code from xp, but by all means dont trust what i say, ill have to do more research on it.


Yeah my only concern with just sticking with xp would be if i loose software support from microsoft for word, powerpoint, direct x, etc etc and possibly third party publishers as well, or do they make new software nowadays compatible with older versions of windows?

Snow Wars is making its return, check out the Game Design Theory board for more info...
Kenjar
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 22:06
I seriousally doubt that Vista was completely rebuilt, it's got too many XP features and pretty much the same interface. It's more likely XP and XP-64 Bit Edition rebranded, reguardless of what they might claim.

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Ian T
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 22:40
Yeah, except for the fundamentally altered core system, 100% new UAP security layer, 100% new graphics core, 50% new Explorer interface, and completely new indexing and search functionality.



Chris Franklin
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Posted: 12th Jun 2006 22:45
I'm downloading it on the school server now and putting it on dvd soon

Jeku
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 00:23
Well they obviously need to have the same interface-- nobody's expecting the kind of jump we experience between 3.1 and 95

I would think the UI would be the easiest part of writing an OS--- the deep layers of technology, as Ian T has mentioned, was largely rewritten. Hell, they still had remnants of Pascal in XP source apparently. It needed an entire clean-out.

"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
Ian T
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 01:05
There've been negative rumors about the nature of the reworked source, even after they turned around and scrapped most of their current progress in 2005, but rumors are rumors. Even if the source is bad, the OS seems stable for a beta to me. It'd make it a nightmare for them to keep patching, but one way or another they'll have to. I like to imagine it's neater coded than XP though. They've supposedly tightened up company requirements on source code, and they're certainly giving this one a harder QA run.

It's not nearly as good as it was supposed to be, but it is, from what I have experienced so far, a solid evolutionary step up from XP. Whether it's worth the price point, of course, is another topic entirely.

TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 02:44
I think Vista is codename for XP Service Pack 3, in a shiny new package!

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Kenjar
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 11:37
I think that makes windows Vista service pack 7 for windows 2000. XP would be service pack 5 for windows 2000 come to that.

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Ian T
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 17:44
So the developer of a product is not only obliged to continue improving it indefinitely without profit, but also not to release any new products because it be wrong to potentially give newer customers a better product?

You only get this kind of BS in the software industry

Kenjar
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 19:03
Yep, the only thing worse is teenage mutant hero turtle green apple pizza.

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MiR
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 00:10
mmmm. Wait a mo. What´s wrong with Vista using XP´s source? That´s good programming isn´t it? I wouldn´t want them to reinvent the wheel each time they bring out a new OS. From what I´ve heardthere´s quite a few improvements. Whether they´re good enough to justify the unimprovements is the main problem. Directx embedded at last but it needs 1 gig to run word. That sort of thing.

Need path finding in your games? Have a look at the tutorials on Pathfinding.
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:10
I think a new car is very similar to windows....works perfect for the first 30 days then little annoyances start to happen, but they get fixed easily by support for the first few months, but then they get complicated. Then over the next several years you learn to live with the borken/missing parts since you need it for daily living until they release a new car with just a few new features, but the same framework and basic design, and prone to many of the same shortcomings, but youll end up buyin it anyways, along with everybody else over the next few years after its release...

Snow Wars is making its return, check out the Game Design Theory board for more info...
Jeku
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:26
Quote: "I wouldn´t want them to reinvent the wheel each time they bring out a new OS."


They don't. Vista is their first major overhaul from what I hear.

"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari

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