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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] PC gaming - dead within 10 years?

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Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 03:15
Well if Sony is going to make it's console into a computer then you won't be console gaming anymore.

FredP
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 03:28
Only if you believe that crap that Sony spews out..
Blue ray...the future of media...
Or is it UMD?
I truly do hope sony tries to go into the computer market so Bill Gates will smack them around like they stole something...
Speaking of crimes...they ought to be arrested for selling PS3s for $600.
Amazing how all of a sudden that the top dogs at Sony are getting moved around.I wonder why...
Anyways,all this is a moot point.
As long as there are computers there will be pc gaming.
Mark it down.
Write it in stone.Take it to the bank.
This is just my personal opinion and I am not out to offend anyone.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 03:45
I absolutely love it. This thread is turning into yet another Sony-bashing thread, and it's doing it completely out of the blue with absolutely no practical reason to do so.

Quote: "I truly do hope sony tries to go into the computer market "

You mean like the Vaio? That's a computer, I'm pretty sure... if not, then this thing I'm sitting in front of right now seems to be emulating one pretty darn well

And of the three consoles out right now, two of them have been referred to buy their respective manufacturing parties as either computers or a reason to not need them anymore. Microsoft is just as guilty. But getting back on topic...

I'm sure there will still be PC games in the future, but I'm saying that there won't be a noteworthy market. I'm sure indie developers will still be making games on the PC, but I'm pretty sure they won't be millionaires because of it, because there won't be customers willing to pay for them. The mainstream industry is already starting to turn its back on the PC as a gaming platform in favor of consoles. Indie developers could still make games for the platform, and I'm sure they will... but there won't be many customers to get those games out to. I dunno, it's just a theory, but I can definitely see it happening.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Raven
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 05:05
Quote: "I'm sure there will still be PC games in the future, but I'm saying that there won't be a noteworthy market. I'm sure indie developers will still be making games on the PC, but I'm pretty sure they won't be millionaires because of it, because there won't be customers willing to pay for them. The mainstream industry is already starting to turn its back on the PC as a gaming platform in favor of consoles. Indie developers could still make games for the platform, and I'm sure they will... but there won't be many customers to get those games out to. I dunno, it's just a theory, but I can definitely see it happening."


wow, that's amazing; just can't believe what you're saying.. seriously is the market honestly disappearing; sweet jesus what will we do, i mean everyone knows that game profits from 2004 to 2005 were down $200million but now you've said that... i dunno my faith in the PC games market is now just shot. honestly can't see a way they'd ever recover with that over-whelming evidence.

Given that the biggest selling video game of all-time is TheSims at 16million units on the oh what platform was that again; oh yeah Windows PC. Against the best selling console game GTA:Vice City (12million units) ... well god knows how on earth I'll ever sleep at night knowing that the likes of Half-Life 3 will go straight to console over PC because of your evidence my eyes are now open.

...freaking muppet

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x1b
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 05:46 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2006 05:48
Forget it. I've never been and will never be a console gamer. If it isn't available for PC, I can't be botherd with it. My entire office (32 people) feel the same.

Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 06:06
Well, studies have shown that when a console manufacturer refers to their console as a computer, the console will die

But seriously, computer games are made on the PC---- Microsoft says 200 million copies of Vista will be released in 24 months, and I believe it. *anyone* can pick up a book and learn how to write a game on a PC. Very little amounts of Joe Blows can make a basement console game--- and 0% are legal. The consoles are tightly controlled, the PC is a utopia of crap all the way up to Half-Life 2. I seriously can't see this changing soon.

PC fanboys don't need to stress out when they see consoles getting good FPS' and RTS', genres previously thought impossible on a console. There is still lots of room for engrossing PC games that can't reasonably be transferred to console (i.e. shareware games, etc.)

Kenjar
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2006 11:46 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2006 11:58
Personally if we are really worried about PC's being overun by games consoles, why not simply build a PC based console that lacks of the game licencing do-ah-who associated with consoles?

A PC with a 2.8Ghz CPU, 1024Mb RAM and a nVidia 7600/7900 GPU would be a pretty damn good system. All that is really needed in a new shell for windows for "console" mode and "standard mode", then simply ship it out with a duel TV and VGA ports, along with a keyboard, mouse and game controller. You have a full PC that plugs into your TV, or monitor, with an interface that can be controlled via control pad. Simple, and you won't have to make developers pay sony/ microsoft/ nintendo, for the privilage of bringing your own game designs and idea's to life.

Heck, go a bit futher with extention cables pluged into ports, and allow users to change their own CPU's/ GPU's/ HDD's and RAM with simple easy to plug in moduals (which would simply be special containers with standard hardware built in.

Quite apart from anything else, wouldn't it be great to be able to run the vast majority of previous games since '95?

Matt Rock
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 03:12
Quote: "Given that the biggest selling video game of all-time is TheSims at 16million units on the oh what platform was that again; oh yeah Windows PC. Against the best selling console game GTA:Vice City (12million units) ... well god knows how on earth I'll ever sleep at night knowing that the likes of Half-Life 3 will go straight to console over PC because of your evidence my eyes are now open.
"

First of all, explain to me how my opinion could have possibly offended you... I'm assuming it did since you're extremely defensive over the topic. Next, what year was The Sims released again? As much as you might not want to realize it, PC games have been steadily declining in sales for years now, so yeah, there's some math behind some people thinking that PC games could very well die in the future. In ten years? Not a chance. But down the road, there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't. Mainstream studios are leaning away from the PC... this isn't an opinion, it's a cold-hard fact. I'm not saying I like it, I'm saying it's happening. Game Developer Magazine had a big article about it last year, about how the big studios, like EA, Rockstar, Ubi, Konami, Activision, etc., are spending most of their resources on console games because, and this might be a shocker to you: consoles are where the money is. From there I formed an opinion, and I think said opinion has some ground under it. If you don't agree, fine, who cares. Is it really necessary to act like a four-year old when someone disagrees with you? Because all you're going to do is force me to respond to you on your own level. I presented some decent arguements I think, and seeing as how you're the only person who exploded at what I said, I'm thinking that maybe I'm not alone in thinking that. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm not saying you're wrong... I'm saying what I think based on what it looks like to me. If you disagree, fine, debate it intelligently and I'll be more than willing to listen. If you flame it, you'll just prove your own stupidity and thus prove to me that you aren't worth conversing with.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Steve J
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 03:18 Edited at: 4th Dec 2006 03:19
The only reason the console is staying strong right now, is because there isnt a excellent game to guide the pc. Oblivion sold well around my area, and was probably bought nearly as much as everyone here bought Halo 2. I think the new line up is going to strengthen the pc market though. C&C 3 particularly is probably going to be another cult classic. Trying to predict the future is folly though. Who knows? As Isaac Asimov was implying, it is not the general population you have to look out for, but the individual. Maybe a game will come out that will remarket the pc industry? We all know how the entire pc game industry doing, but as Raven said, the Sims did very, very well. How do we know that more games wont come out that wont do that well?

http://phoenixophelia.com

Steve J, less, and less Controversial!
Raven
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 04:18
Quote: "I'm saying what I think based on what it looks like to me. If you disagree, fine, debate it intelligently and I'll be more than willing to listen. If you flame it, you'll just prove your own stupidity and thus prove to me that you aren't worth conversing with."


You want a debate on the subject, then you put down FACTS.
This is why my response was full of sarcasm, simply because you claimed so freaking much without providing anything to back up even one aspect.

This is your entire argument:

"The PC Games Market is dieing! Because in my opinion more games are being sold on the consoles.. end of argument."

Fact remains that while the PC games market might've dropped $200million in overall sales last year, it is still raking in just under $1billion every year. That's only on the retail level, there are still millions more made each year from commercial pc games not sold at retail.

Sorry, but from the trend I've noticed the PC Games market actually is seeing more action now. Sure over the next few months, a decline will be seen in sales; but once the new consoles are settled, the market will regroup and stay stable.

This is the thing that most people probably don't realise and understand... unlike the console market, the PC market is STABLE and constantly growing.

Everyone requires a PC for more than just gaming, no one *needs* a console.

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indi
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 04:22
It takes multiple computers to make these games for consoles anyway.
It has to be compiled and tested within a framework on a computer anyway.
It appears your post might be copy n paste paranoia.

Jeku
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 06:50
Quote: "It has to be compiled and tested within a framework on a computer anyway."


That's at least half right Most console games are tested on the consoles themselves, albeit debug kits. But yes, they're compiled on the PC, and usually streamed over some kind of network connection.

I think it has something to do with the fact that many console games would run too slow on a PC as it is--- now couple that with running inside an emulator on the PC, and you wouldn't be able to test it with accurate speeds.

indi
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 07:02
that only strengthens the argument regarding a computer being apart of the development process, and confirms my thoughts.
I was going to buy the Net Yaroze license years ago and on the back of the PSX was a printer type port
that streamed it as your saying.
It also strengthens the fact that 3d / 2d and audio would require a pc to manage the elements prior to insertion to the game.
I think this whole post reeks of copy n paste paranoia, with no real basis.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 08:03
The Wii shall outsell the PC...


I wonder how many pc's that people have played games on have been sold in comparison to all consoles sold. Ever.

If you look it that way, the PC trumps the Gameboy and the ps2 as the best selling game platform by far...


But the PC gaming isn't going to die any time soon. How long do you think it will take for that majority of pc users to become skilled with the Internet? And when that happens, how likely is it that people will want to use systems like steam to buy their games rather than going to stores... Just wait 10-20 years, and you'll see that no one will even consider what life would be like without a pc, rather than just us computer geeks.

You have to stop thinking like tech is going to change at a rate it did 5 years ago, and start thinking that in 10-20 years we will have made almost as many advances as were made in the past 40-50 years in most industries...
Consoles are an outdated tech, no matter how you look at it. Consider how every console is becoming more like a comp... Look at on line services that try feebly to imitate the power of the Internet. Nintendo is trying to get around this by taking the basic advantages consoles have over comps and going in a unique direction with them. An does no one here realize that markets like this wax and wane all the time? Just because any one market is waning doesn't mean it's going to die. Stop referencing people you know, stop looking at facts specific to gaming. Start following the general curve of scientific advancement, and you'll realize that every argument you can come up with to support that PC gaming is going to die in the next few decades only works if gaming itself dies.

Really, unless you look at the bigger picture that gaming is a part of, you'll never even be able to guess at what is coming.

For example, who here didn't expect something like the Wiimote that gave more natural movements to the player to become mainstream soon just before it was revealed? And who here can't see this type of tech becoming more common, eventually ditching the controller all together and following your movements? You have to remember that is doesn't matter what's possible now, it only matter if it will become mainstream. Touch screens are going to almost certainly replace keyboards as they can be changed for any purpose, if mind control tech (already exists, just isn't practical yet) doesn't make motion control and touch control totally obsolete first. There are many other possible techs that could prevail (speech recognition may replace typing, but I don't see that one working very well, as it's not nearly as versatile as typing, and would be a step backwards), but you need to take them all into account rather than just saying "Oh, I don't like this so no one else will" or "People don't like change, so even though over a million people endorse this it will never replace the obsolete tech I grew up with". Sometimes it's just silly to see the arguments posted.

No... PC gaming wont die, but consoles almost certainly will. They only work now because there's a gap between the computer literate and the general masses. They in fact help bridge that gap, thus by nature destroying themselves. Don't argue that you prefer your living room for playing games, because where do you think the computer will end up when TV becomes an Internet service (look at the flow of tech, and you'll see the chain of events has already begun)?

Van B
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 08:37
DX10 will shake everything up, once that's out there console owners, even next gen ones will see PC's compete on a whole other level with the 360 and PS3. For too long PC games have concentrated on graphics and not on fluid gameplay, PC developers don't care too much about lower spec PC's, but IMO that option is being taken away from them with DX10 - the core rendering technology is changing to allow some very cool things. Besides performance increases, we'll see shader effects evolve into standard game features that don't drag the frame rate down to stupidity.

The next gen consoles (after the PS3 and 360) will have this technology, but the PC will always get it first, it'll always be 1 step ahead, albeit for very short periods of time. Console technology needs to exist on computers first, it's just the way it matures but that won't change anytime soon.

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
Kenjar
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Posted: 4th Dec 2006 12:47
Quote: "
Fact remains that while the PC games market might've dropped $200million in overall sales last year, it is still raking in just under $1billion every year. That's only on the retail level, there are still millions more made each year from commercial pc games not sold at retail."


that is a useful point, how are they calculating this drop in sales? Because there are alternative methods of buying these days. Services like www.direct2drive.com and MMORPG game often allow the user to simply purchase and download online. Certainly something that isn't avalible to console consumers yet, as there's no way of burning the downloaded data to CD/DVD for storage.

The same with PC Vrs Console Sales really. You can't really test them side by side because PC's are often simply upgraded. Certainly I'm still using my old 754 pin, AGP motherboard, and I still have the option of a 7600GS or 7800GS graphics card. While the machine won't be top of the line, it will running all the lastest stuff including Oblivion at fairly high graphical settings.

Finally, even if PC playing died out, PC is flexible, it still provides us with everything from word processing, to internet servers, to home media center systems. The PC can be your hi-fi, TV, console, work machine and broadcast (podcast etc) machine all in one.

Redmotion
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Posted: 6th Dec 2006 17:18 Edited at: 6th Dec 2006 17:19
Have you glanced around GAME lately? I've noticed that the budget PC game shelf is now bigger than the new releases area. I'd say that was pretty telling of a shrinking PC game market considering PS2 gets nearly one entire shop wall.

Luckily, online PC gaming will survive even if single player dies - consoles still fail to offer a decent online experience - and don't offer the opportunity to modify the games. WOW just won't fair well on console.

Kentaree
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Posted: 6th Dec 2006 17:49
Quote: "DX10 will shake everything up"


Yes, but, while it's a while away, what do you think Microsoft's next console is going to be using?

Kenjar
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Posted: 6th Dec 2006 19:08
Sticky tape and glue?

Jeku
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Posted: 6th Dec 2006 21:32
Quote: "Luckily, online PC gaming will survive even if single player dies"


Hopefully not. Am I the only one who prefers single-player to multiplayer?

Matt Rock
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Posted: 7th Dec 2006 01:15 Edited at: 7th Dec 2006 01:18
Quote: ""The PC Games Market is dieing! Because in my opinion more games are being sold on the consoles.. end of argument.""

I had a lot more points than just that. Maybe you should go back and read my previous threads prior to passing judgement? First of all, in terms of popularity, PC gaming will NEVER again be as popular as consoles are, and that's a simple fact. Most people don't care to upgrade their computer every time a new game comes out. They don't want to screw around with downloading patches and fixes and worrying about compatability issues and ubgrading their peripherals to offer better control during games. Consoles are cheaper and easier across the board, and cheap & easy are fundamental to most consumers. And before someone says "consoles aren't cheaper than PC's," you have to keep in mind that Joe Q. Public doesn't know how to build his own PC, or even upgrade it. He'll end up buying a pre-built PC, then he'll have to upgrade it to play the newer games. You don't need to upgrade consoles, and you don't need to know anything about their internal workings to play games on them. People are lazy... I'd hate to say it, but it's true, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, either. The most constant trend in technology over the past, say, forty years or so, is that people want to do things easier, faster, and cheaper. Consoles offer that over PC's. Maybe not to nerds like us , but to the average person who doesn't know what RAM stands for? Why on earth would someone like that (whose normal in terms of how much they know about PCs) want to go through all of the hassle to keep upgrading their computer every other year, when they could just buy a console that lasts them six years?

Obviously the PC outsells any console, and all of the consoles combined for that matter. But for gaming? Wrong. Most PC's are used for business applications and for personal communications. Out of all of the PC's in the world, how many of them can actually handle the high-end needs of a modern PC game? Take for instance BF2. How many computers, the world over, could install and play BF2 right now, without any compatability issues or anything? I doubt we could find this figure, but if it were more than 3% I'd be absolutely shocked.

And again, let me point out that the big development companies have all started to ween off of PC gaming. Their pushing most of their resources towards console gaming because, and I'm saying this yet again, consoles are where the money is. The market for PC gaming is shrinking. Indie games will obviously outlive mainstream PC games, but with less-than-remarkable sales, there's no real money in independent PC game development, and so we'll start to see hardware companies focus more of their attention on the multimedia industries and even the console industries, pulling money and growth out of PC gaming advancement. Most independent games don't challenge a PC's capabilities like mainstream games do, and they don't make much money in comparison, so why would hardware companies keep developing new gaming peripherals and game-oriented non-development video cards for PCs? It would make more sense monetarily for them to spend their money, time, and effort on making new equipment for the film industry and for console game development. Or at least that's what common sense points to.

Raven, you're not looking at this debate objectively (then again, when was the last time you did that? ). Each generation, consoles steal away more of the marketshare from PC's. Why is that? It's because consoles are, to the vast majority of consumers, cheaper to purchase, easier to use, and faster to get playing on. If the PC gaming industry wants to keep up, it needs to make dramatic changes to the way it does business, and that probably won't happen. Stop forcing people to upgrade their computers on a comparatively constant basis. Stop releasing games that are less-developed than console games, thus requiring patches to be installed regularly. I'm a huge fan of PC games just as most of you are... but nothing lasts forever, and PC games had a fantastic ride that unfortunately will come to an end at some point during our lifetimes.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Steve J
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Posted: 7th Dec 2006 01:17
Riiight matt, you are the kind of objective debating. Do I need to go back to the post about when Megaton was going to the US to say things that you said were "facts"?

Give me all the statistics that say it is dieing. I want more than 1 source, graphs, quotes, whole nine yards. Please tell me.

http://phoenixophelia.com

Steve J, less, and less Controversial!
indi
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Posted: 7th Dec 2006 01:20
yeah mmorpgs dont make any money on the pc. pfft spare me your doomsday efforts.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 7th Dec 2006 01:23
I just did. Debate one of the several points I brought up on this subject and how I'm wrong. What did I say there (or anywhere in this thread for that matter) that isn't blatently obvious? I love PC gaming as much as any of you, but you know what? I love a lot of things just as much and I know that those things won't be around forever. To view something objectively, by the way, means to look at a topic from more than one point of view. Give it a try sometime


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Steve J
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Posted: 7th Dec 2006 01:25
Liar. No Source of where you got those "Facts", seems like made up %'s, no graph. I am sorry, but you need to actually read what I want. Right now all I see is a bunch of facts you pulled out of your arse to convince people.

http://phoenixophelia.com

Steve J, less, and less Controversial!
indi
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Posted: 7th Dec 2006 01:30
click, this has gone to the dogs.
its pointless anyway, its speculation in its purest form, based on nothing but here say.

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