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Geek Culture / Unreal 2 / I Love You Aida / Game Ending - Spoilers.

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Starlight
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Posted: 27th Apr 2003 19:54
This posting is about the ending of Unreal 2 so if you have not finished it yet or have not played the game yet then please ignore. This is a spoiler!

Wow, this is a really good game! It took me about a week to play this game on easy level – about 2 – 4 hours each evening. There were one or two minor bugs in it but nothing serious. I can’t put fault on this game except one thing…why did the ending have to be so sad? Especially when I realised that Aida died, I thought that really stinks, that sucks. Why did she have to die? She was my favourite. She was a star in the game. She really made the game for me. That’s one part of the game that I really hated, when Aida died. I felt that was a bit callous. It didn’t go down well in the game at all. WHY DID THEY KILL THE CREW???!!! That really sucked badly!

When the Atlantis took the final hit and exploded I thought NO!!!! I had little motivation to carry on with the game and I was glad that the game ended quickly. I mean why bother? I was just too depressed to continue playing the game a second time on a harder level since now I know what happens to those loveable characters. On the back of the game box is says ‘Today an outcast, Tomorrow a hero’. But tomorrow never came. The last thing I felt was that I was a hero at the end of the game. In fact I felt as if I screwed up, I failed to save my friends, the most important objective in the game. Why didn’t I (Dalton) listen to Aida when she kept warning me that there was something suspicious about collecting the artefacts. I assume that is why just after you wasted Hawkins the game gives you the option of saying ‘Bastard!’ to the artefacts before you go and find the escape pod. Before the last mission to collect the final artefact Aida pointed out that something terrible would happen. Aida appears to be the only one with any brains – she was suspicious of authority and willing to ask questions. Dalton wasn’t that bright. Considering what happen to him in the passed and how the military ripped him up with arse paper because he stood up and did what was right, the game never explained why he was so obsessed with getting back into the military again. Finally at the end there I am in the escape pod on the road to the ‘ass end of nowhere’. But at least Aida, Isaak and Ne’Ban were real Heros.

I did like the ending sequence however. I thought that was quite moving and touching that they wanted to say their last goodbyes. And although they didn’t say it they were basically saying that they loved you and how much you meant to them in their own lives. Thanks to you they found peace in their own lives and Aida was able to forgive herself about the past. Those last words from Aida: ‘…you said that I had to choose someone to trust. I choose you. Goodbye.’ This is just too sad… This can’t be the end it just can’t. Somebody tell me that this is just a cliffhanger and that the Heros in the game (Aida, Isaak and Ne’Ban) turn up alive in a blockbuster sequel?

I liked the sudden twists in the game at the end when everything goes pear-shaped. And when you realise it was bastard Hawkins and his lackeys who shot down the Atlantis. BUT DID THE DEVELOPERS HAD TO KILL THE CREW???!!!! I really hated that bit. It sucked badly.

I really liked the character interaction in the game including Aida trying to come to terms with her suppressed feelings. Aida, having the stiff upper lip but was quite sensitive underneath. And the tension between Isaak and Aida. I liked the idea of going on board the Atlantis between missions since it broke up the game a little to get to know that crew a bit more, instead of always running around fighting. It added content to the game. Along with the main plot you were finding out about the character’s own emotional problems.

Aida - All those responsible for creating the crew did a really good, especially with Aida. I thought she was fantastic. Her physical appreance, her hairstyle, her looks, and her facial expressions continually changing in her eyes, etc, and the way she looked at you. Those involved in creating her did an excellent job. It is clear that a lot of effort and creativity went into creating Aida and building her personality and her sense of uniqueness. The lady who did the voice acting for Aida did a good I thought. I liked her voice including during the missions which was comical in places. ‘…move your ass Dalton, move it!’ Aida was almost like a real person to me. And that’s why it was so sad when she and the others died. That stinks, that really sucks! Aida and the others were like real friends. I am not embarrassed to admit that I did cry some when Aida died.

Isaak – This guy was just SO COOL!! I loved this guy’s accent. Whoever did the voice acting for him did an excellent job.

Ne’Ban – Quite funny and sweet I thought and witty.

Then at the end the storytellers decided to kill them. WHY??? WHY KILL OFF THE HEROS IN THE GAME? That made no sense to me and is the one bit of the game I hated. If there is a plan to be a sequel, and it follows on from where Unreal 2 left it, then how will they replace those delightful characters, will they be able to create a character as good as Aida. I really am going to miss her. Bring her back in the sequel. Apart from what happen to the crew in the end I thought this was an excellent game, full of action and humorous in places, loved the NPC interaction with the crew and during the missions.

And now some food for thought…You are meant to assume at the end that everyone (expect yourself) dies. But did they? The game ending is very open and you are left feeling ‘But what if?’ Since the game does not give any real evidence that they were on board the Atlantis when it exploded. You only assume so. What am I talking about? I saw the Atlantis blow up in front of my own eyes. But when you are fulfilling the objective to secure the area before the Atlantis comes to pick you up and you have finished with the first wave of the Skaarj, you hear Aida mentions that they are under attack and they receive their first hit and Ne’Ban mentions that they can’t take another hit, etc. After this you are engaged with the second wave of the Skaarj, when you have finished this you hear Aida saying: ‘…he’s making another pass…brace for impact’ They receive there second hit. After this the movie clip kicks in, then Aida says: ‘…we’re still here…but one more hit…John stand by for burst transmission…” This is the last you hear from Aida. Then the movie clip shows another scene when Dalton and the others are looking up at the sky looking for the Atlantis. Then it comes in approaching the landing pad trying not to be hit. Then for a couple of seconds it stays still up in the sky and receives the third hit which shoots it down. My point is that from the time when Aida sends you the burst transmission up to the point when the Atlantis is destroyed there is radio silence from the crew. This is a good 20 seconds or more, I think. Why is that? Is it just my imagination? Did the developers just not bother? Or is there a reason why there was no communication from the crew? Considering that Aida was speaking often to you when they were being attacked why was there no further communication from her after she sent the transmission such as: ‘John did you receive the burst transmission?’ or ‘John we’re not going to make it, save yourself.’ And for her voice to be cut short as the Atlantis exploded. This would give confirmation that the crew were still on board the Atlantis when it was destroyed! But there was only silence. Just a thought. Second, why is it you were told that a search and rescue was done but nothing was found? OK, the ship exploded, what evidence do you expect to find. But they could have easily have said that they found the bodies in the wreckage.

Who knows maybe Aida has some smart trick and they jumped ship just before it exploded. They made their heartfelt good byes when you were up in the tower long before they got attacked and they knew that their chances were slim. The ending was very sad and in truth it sucked. But perhaps it was also a sensational cliffhanger.

Can I smell Unreal 3 in the air? If Epic and Legend decide to do another Unreal and it follows on from where Unreal 2 left off. One of the things that I would want to find out is what happened to the crew? And preferably that they (especially Aida) turn up alive. I wonder what other people think.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Apr 2003 20:50
Unreal3 is about to start development... Legend has already started the design - but they're currently looking for an able bodies single player level designer preferably with extensive 3DS Max and UnrealEd experience (with a few good levels to prove this)

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Rob K
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Posted: 27th Apr 2003 21:19
"Legend has already started the design - but they're currently looking for an able bodies single player level designer preferably with extensive 3DS Max and UnrealEd experience (with a few good levels to prove this)"

Noooo....

Legend have a reputation for producing only fairly mediocre games, I vote that Valve should make a Half-Life esq. game using the Unreal Warfare engine.

BTW. Does anyone know what happened to Valve?

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
MrTAToad
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Posted: 27th Apr 2003 22:54
I mentioned this in one of my posts when I completed Unreal 2 a long time ago. Quite a sad ending...

Anyone got Devistation ? I find it rather boring, flat and grey...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
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Rob K
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Posted: 28th Apr 2003 00:13 Edited at: 28th Apr 2003 00:16
" I can’t put fault on this game except one thing…why did the ending have to be so sad? Especially when I realised that Aida died, I thought that really stinks, that sucks. Why did she have to die? She was my favourite. She was a star in the game. She really made the game for me. That’s one part of the game that I really hated, when Aida died. I felt that was a bit callous. It didn’t go down well in the game at all. WHY DID THEY KILL THE CREW???!!! That really sucked badly!"

I love sad endings, but then again, I'm English.

"I am not embarrassed to admit that I did cry some when Aida died. "

Now that is a mark of a powerful game. The only time I found a game genuinely sad was in Grim Fandango, when Lola died. That game rocked!

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Apr 2003 01:15
perhaps they have a habit of mediocre games, however they're the guys responsible for the Unreal2 Engine that is aided by Karma (MathEngine) ... and whether the games they make themselves are pretty piss poor to get into, they do have a habit of creating some true amazing engines to back them up.

its just a good thing that for Unreal2 they had a more creative team for the actual game
however i think the hallmark of a good game is not only to produce such strong reactions - but also have people crying out for a sequal to answer the questions left.

Unreal3's current plot carries on directly from Unreal2 ... infact you may be able to find the uncut version of ending CG which has the continuation of what happens
Personally i'm going to be seeing about getting on the Legend team to help develop Unreal3 - i'd love to add that Raven flare and inginuity that can only truely come out to play in story based games.
however i think another title to look out for will the Unreal2-Affinity which Epic are developing. Cause not sure if anyone remembers but last E3 there was a big bust about the screenshots shown by epic about Unreal2 ... and what wasn't released until Unreal2-The Awakening hit the shelves is that they're workin on a parrallel title.

i'm still not sure if its multiplayer, single player or what ... the screens i keep finding being send to my inbox suggest single player.
It is funni how no one ever asked how Epic could be so busy on a single project, yet UT2K3 was obviously just an engine overhaul and update - and even after release they were still closed down more than a bomb shelter in Iraq.

i think the only game i've ever really got into that caused me to go "Noooo they didn't!!" is the recent released from Cambridge Studio's called Primal

Doom3 has a bloody sadistic ending too though, not sure if they tonned it down - but once you've pieced together what was happening and what is gonna happen to you ... and all the blood
well it certainly deserves the 18+ Rating

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 28th Apr 2003 01:35
Yes, looking forward to Doom 3...

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Starlight
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Posted: 30th Apr 2003 03:50
Raven Wrote:

"Unreal3 is about to start development... Legend has already started the design - but they're currently looking for an able bodies single player level designer preferably with extensive 3DS Max and UnrealEd experience (with a few good levels to prove this)"

I don't have those skills unfortunatly. I'm a IT software engineer(Java, C++, etc) but game developing is one area that I am looking into. Over a month ago I was studying that unreal 1 maps. Was planning on building my own maps and BOT match level but got side tracked. [b]) Setup my PC and laptop with a parallel direct cable connection. My two nieces loved playing the Unreal's BOT matches together. Was thinking of creating a map that had exactly what I wanted and explorative...on the back burner at the moment.

Raven Wrote:

"its just a good thing that for Unreal2 they had a more creative team for the actual game
however i think the hallmark of a good game is not only to produce such strong reactions - but also have people crying out for a sequal to answer the questions left."

I Agree! I Agree! Unreal 2 was certainly a success and had those qualities, I reckon. For me Unreal 2 was quite powerful, especially the ending...

Raven Wrote:

"Unreal3's current plot carries on directly from Unreal2 ... infact you may be able to find the uncut version of ending CG which has the continuation of what happens"

Cool!!! I'm really looking forward to that. Just hope it's not so sad as the ending of Unreal 2. OK, I confess, I'm a bloke but a bit of a girly you see with a phobia on sad endings... BTW - Call me a wally but what are you refering when you say 'the ending of CG'? :-s

Raven Wrote:

"Personally i'm going to be seeing about getting on the Legend team to help develop Unreal3"

I'm jealous but good luck. I've been looking at the Unreal 2 maps in the editor and they look quite complex.

The only reason I got Unreal 2 is because I had the previous game. I don't play that many games but I think I'll check out Primal. Doom 3 sounds scary.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Apr 2003 04:00
Cinematic Graphical sequence (movie)
Primal is awesome, if you like DarkAngel/Angel/Buffy etc.. and you ever wondered how the games should've been made - check it out

i think the Buffy and Dark Angel games just plainly sucked more than that Judge Dred title based on the film (which was just as bad lol)

Doom3 is definately not a title you want to play in the dark at 5am, however i'd say the same about Resident Evil2 and Dino Crisis ... becuase the gameplay is slow paced and you're expecting things, then suddenly something happens you don't expect
I just love the way that a helldog has his way with Dr. Carmack hehee

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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Starlight
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Posted: 1st May 2003 04:12
Hi MrTAToad,

"I mentioned this in one of my posts when I completed Unreal 2 a long time ago. Quite a sad ending..."

Yes it was a truly very sad ending. But it was also kinda cool with Dalton in the escape pod at the end playing the back the transmission of their heartfelt goodbyes before they got attacked. It forced the player to be less the tough macho guy and be more reflective and sensitive. You don't see that often in games. The developers really rubbed it in! Call me a wuss but I did cry. It is only at the end that you realise how much you have fallen in love with the characters. They are the best characters I've come across in a game. I love this game.

Also cool the way they left it open and wondering if they were on the Atlantis or not when it was destroyed. Out of interest, someone pointed this out, did anyone notice that when you go to the escape pods on the Dorian Grey at the end, there were four escape pod docks but three of the escape pods had already gone...

Apparently, it is said that one of the developers, Cliffy B. I think posted a message back in March when some people were speculating what happened to the crew. This was on the Unreal 2 forums, it said, "Did you see any bodies? I didn't." The original post is not there but it exists in people's replies.

"Anyone got Devistation ? I find it rather boring, flat and grey..."

I've heard of it but not played it. I've heard that it sucked.

Personally, I am looking forward to David Braben's Elite 4 when it finally comes out. And currently that seems to over the rainbow never land.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st May 2003 04:17
god you don't know how many times i've pleaded to be on the dev team for Elite4 ... the anticipation is killing me though, like waiting 8years for this sequal (althought i'd love to know what happened to 3 because FFE was Elite2 Frontier:First Encounters not Elite3)

the animation engine looked outstanding on it though, and they're only releasing very slim snippets of what is comming here and there in the forum and site. I think David Brabham just loves teasing people

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 1st May 2003 12:07
You wont see any bodies if they were in the ship that blew up... I they well and truley snuffed it - they cant be on Atlantis as it was blown up, and they can't be on the dreadnaught as that got diverted into the sun. In addition, from the cinematic at the end, it only appears there were around 4-8 lifeboats anyway...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st May 2003 12:24
well thats oki... there was only 5 crew

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 1st May 2003 12:38
A trifle more than that :

A) The Captain
B) The chap complaining about the anti-gravity system
C) The chap replying to the chap complaining about the anti-gravity system
D) The two people you meet near the end
E) Soldiers in the first battle with 'The Hulk'
F) Soldiers in the second battle with numerous 'Hulks'

I make it around 8-10...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st May 2003 14:59
oki... well the escape pods fit like 3-4 people though so i mean its enough

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Posted: 1st May 2003 19:03
Would be a pretty tight squeeze then - the escape pod you see leaving at the end just has enough room to fit one humanoid shape.

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Posted: 1st May 2003 23:56
really? hmm, i thought they were the same size as the escape pod in Star Wars
well i dunno maybe they all die hehee

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 00:17
Yes, I certainly think its the latter...

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Rob K
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 01:10
"and whether the games they make themselves are pretty piss poor to get into, they do have a habit of creating some true amazing engines to back them up."

Epic wrote the engine, Legend did the content.

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Rob K
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"Personally, I am looking forward to David Braben's Elite 4 when it finally comes out. And currently that seems to over the rainbow never land."

Lets hope its not a repeat of Elite 2 ("Plannets disappearing? - Sounds like it was written in DBPro Beta 0.001 ")

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Starlight
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 02:33
You are right about the escape pods - I was talking bollocks. I've checked with the Unreal Editor and its the same when playing the game. In total there are eight escape pod hatches. But seven of them had already been used. Normally you only see three used ones on the floor plus one un-used one but there are another four used ones along the ceiling.

There might have been as many as 10 or more of Hawkins crew but I don't think any of them survived. Since when you are dealing with the Tosc they are eventually slaughtered.

When playing Aida's transmission and she explains it is Hawkins who is going to attack them. You over hear Hawkins talking to one of his crew were he says "...clear a path to the escape pods. Don't tell anyone or you'll start a panic. I'll be along in a minute." After this you then deal with Hawkins. BTW - you can use the rocket launcher on Hawkins body where the sun don't shine and have the pleasure of seeing his body scatter over a wide area. Considering what he did to my friends it seemed most appropriate!

Maybe some of Hawkins crew did make it although when you are nearly at the escape pod bay most of them don't know where the pods are and two of them are running in the wrong direction! On top of that there is a Tosc waiting for them in the escape pod bay so even if some of them did get to the pods they would have been killed. Since only you can kill the Tosc with the device you have. Conventional weapons are useless. Plus when you are searching for the escape pods the ship's gravity system is busted so it becomes more and more difficult to move. You only just make it.

So this begs the question of who used those seven escape pods? And where they used before Hawkins starts playing silly buggers with the artefacts. Remember Hawkins said "escape pods" and not "escape pod". So there must have been more than one escape pod available originally. Maybe some of the Hawkins crew did use those escape pods before the last remaining Tosc went in there. But to me it looked like they were being slaughtered before they could get to the escape pods.

Remember there was a good 20 second period between Aida sending you the burst transmission and when the Atlantis was destroyed. During that time there was no communication from the crew but before the burst transmission was sent, Aida was frequently talking to you. Why wasn't there any communication from the crew right up to the point the Atlantis was destroyed and for Aida's voice to be cut short? This would have given confirmation that they were on board the Atlantis when it blew up. Instead there was only silience. What happened? In the movie clip when the Atlantis is approaching the landing pad you see Dalton wave to them but there was no response. May be they left the ship and secretly teleported to the Dorian Grey which was either orbiting the planet or higher up in the planet's atmosphere when it was attacking the Atlantis. They might have used the escape pod then.

While we are on the subject of escape pods - couldn't the Atlantis have had its own escape pods? What were all those hatches for on the Atlantis that didn't seem to have any use? You could climb down them go below the ship's floor. In some of these there was a little door which you could open and you would see a control panel but you couldn't do anything with it.

You are right, you wouldn't expect to find any bodies because the ship exploded. But - and this is deeply unpleasent (My Divine Aida!!) - couldn't there have been remains? Even though the ship exploded there would have been some evidence that they were on board at that time. Remember not all the ship vaporised some of it fell to the ground. It was Hawkins who told you that they did a search and rescue but nothing was found. But since it was Hawkins who destroyed the Atlantis in the first place do you think he would tell you the truth? Or that he even did a search and rescue?

Also just like today's aeroplanes the Atlantis could have had its own black box that would provide alot of information about what happened right up to the point it was shot down.

I want to have a look at that crash site!
MrTAToad
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 12:07
Its possible the escape pods were released when the Tosc were transformed and they started rampaging through the ship.

I dont remember seeing any escape pods on the Atlantis - it would be pretty poor if they didn't have though... Mind you, having lifeboats didn't help on the Titanic though...

As for looking for wreckage - dont forget it was destroyed fairly high up in the atmosphere, so it would be spread over a very wide area. In addition, after the trouble on the planet, it would probably a no-go zone as well, meaning you would have a very hard job trying to get back there, let alone landing to have a search.

And dont forget they dont have Star trek's transportation technology, so they cant beam themselves anywhere, which means if there are no escape pods, they are pretty much shafted.

Me thinks your slightly too obsessed with Unreal 2...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 12:50
perhaps, but it might've been possible to survive if enough of the ship was left intact - and they just so happened to be in that section
i mean you'd run the risk of bein squished by metal, but its better than doing nothing and praying its all a dream

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Posted: 2nd May 2003 15:53 Edited at: 2nd May 2003 15:55
It seemed totally destroyed to me - they certainly wasn't any big chunks falling to the ground...

In addition, if they had managed to escape, you would have they would have let John know, even if they couldn't explicity say where they were.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 17:09
yeah... but perhaps thats the point in a search party - becuase you think about it if say some of the crew escaped they'd probably end up at the nearest planet (wonder where that would be hehee)
so i guess that they'd probably have to sit tight and hope that someone comes lookin
ya know i think this speculation is actually more fun than actually knowing what happens - can get the creative juices flowing.

getting like an episode of batman really isn't it, cause you sit there and think stuff like - well they could got into EVA suits and squeezed into the airlock, the pressurisation if they empties all of the air would protect them from the explosion but they'd have to hope they were thrown far enough to get caught in the planets gravity pull else they'd run out of oxygen in 2.5hrs
but they'd still be having a risky entry into the planet on a course which could burn them up on reentry and possibly kill them on impact anyways ... UNLESS they also stole some Nitrogen Canisters from the engine room and used it to super cool the inside of the airlock, and for the landing they had someone bring the matress's from the crew quarters and line it between them and the Nitrogen cooling - hoping that the EVA suits protect them from too much heat and the padding helped cushion the blow of hitting the ground further
also being in metal suits would beharder to be crushed

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Starlight
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 18:45
"Me thinks your slightly too obsessed with Unreal 2..."

Who Me?????

"ya know i think this speculation is actually more fun than actually knowing what happens - can get the creative juices flowing."

But that is what the developers and designers wanted. They just love to tease people. It looked like a done deal at the end. But because the game didn't give you enough information and a few questions left unanswered you were left thinking 'but what if?' - and to come to your own conclusions. You weren't completely sure if they were on the Atlantis or not but you assumed they must have been. Also by ending it the way they did people would cry out for a sequel.

Maybe Ne'Bann had supernatural powers and they teleported off. x-d

Maybe something happened with the artefacts and it created a worm hole and they went into another dimension...

BTW - did anyone know what happened to the crew's pet Seagoat? Maybe it was flying the Atlantis when the crew left? ROTFLOL!!!! x-d x-d

One last thing can anyone explain why Unreal 2 is getting such a bashing? I mean OK the game isn't perfect but the amount of slagging it is getting on the forums and newsgroups is way over the top. When I played the game and then looked at what the magazines and forums said, I thought, "Are they playing the same game as me?" What really bugs me is those who say Unreal 2 sucks haven't even played the game! However, I have noticed more people recently getting pissed off with the whining and are posting there views and saying that it is in fact an excellent game.

I would give this game 90% if it wasn't for the shitty ending ie. everyone dies - that just sucks. I prefer to finish a game with high spirits and not to be bummed. So I'll give it 85% - 90%, depending how I feel.

Right now I have an attitude since MrTAToad said I am obsessed with Unreal 2 so I'll give it 85%.

... he/she is mistaken its not Unreal 2 but Aida I'm obsessed with...ROTFLOL!!!! Hee! Hee! x-d x-d
Ian T
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 20:02
I can't stand sad endings... so rude... waste of a good game/movie/book...

Er, what does happen at the end of Doom 3? Man, I despise that game... hope it's something gruesome .

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
MrTAToad
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Posted: 2nd May 2003 21:39
I dont think they would have got out with juts EVA suits, unless they do a Farscape and hang around a planet waiting for someone to pick them up - it would have taken too long to set everything up.

I certainly liked Unreal 2 - there were a few places that were just plain irritating. The loading/re-loading time was really annoying, along with the fact that you couldn't skip some of the cut-scenes.

Dont forget, StarLight, Aidia isn't a real person y'know...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Starlight
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 01:32
"god you don't know how many times i've pleaded to be on the dev team for Elite4 ... the anticipation is killing me though, like waiting 8years for this sequal (althought i'd love to know what happened to 3 because FFE was Elite2 Frontier:First Encounters not Elite3)"

I thought Fronter was Elite 2 and Frontier - First Encounters was Elite 3?

FFE is still available on the web downloadable. Check out fronter development website, http://www.eliteclub.co.uk/download/

Does anyone remember the shambles with GameTek? FFE got massive bad puplicity because it was released with heardly any testing done and it was bugged beyond belief. Patches followed that fixed this but the damage had been done. I think there was a whole mass of lawsuits, etc. I reckon it served GameTek right that they went bust. Braben and Co won with a substantial out of court settlement and this allowed them to continue with the Elite series.

To me FFE seemed an enhanced version of Fronter(Elite 2) with better graphics more features and more missions - the thargoids were in it. But basically that was it.

I think Braben and his team are playing it cool. I know from an article that I read, Braben mentioned he was determained not to get caught up in the fiacso again. Isn't Fronter Developments Braben's out company? Also Ian Bell and Braben seem to have a sour relationship. I think its to do with Royality issues since Braben and Ian Bell went their seperate ways after the original Elite game out for the C64, etc. Braben developed Fronter on his own and when it was released I think Bell was saying that he was entitled to some of the royalities because the ships used in the game along with some of the coding was originally his. I don't know for sure.

From what I've read Elite 4 was supposed to have started development in 2000 and might be making an appearance in 2004. There will be two versions for the single player and multi-player. Certainly Braben is keeping a low profile about Elite 4. One of the reasons is that they do not want to get into any legal issues with those contributing ideas. So I read, if you send an email or some paper work to Fronter Developments or David Braben then they will not reply or even read your work they will just destroy it or delete it. Since they don't want to read people's ideas incase people then try to sue for him 'ripping off' their ideas etc, so I read. Apparently, there was a case recently where someone who had posted an idea on a public forum (visited by the developers of a game) that was included in the game then demanded he was paid the UK Minimum Wage for his work. As far as I know, the developers had to pay. I wonder how Epic and Legend deal with these issues with the Unreal Community?

If you join the Elite Club (www.eliteclub.co.uk) you might have the opportunity to become a beta tester for Elite 4 when it is nearing release, so I've read. But nothing has been offically announced yet.

Soon after the legal battles with FFE and GameTek were over (1998/99 I think), David Braben starting posting on the alt.fan.elite newsgroup (I was reading them) and mentioned that Elite 4 would start development in January 2000. So maybe we can expect something soon.

If anyone knows of any screen shoots etc then let me know. Again from what I've read on the web it will have the following kinds of features:

It will have multiplayer support.
There will be a first person perspective element.
You will be able to land on planets.
The flight system will be semi-Newtonian.
You will be able to fly through nebuli. (COOL!!!)
It will be available on PCs and consoles.
It wont be ready until about 2004.

I'll certainly be the first to get the game when it comes out!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 04:19
you ever read the TOS for the american site forums for games?
it think its pretty amusing to, but basically anything you show within thier forums or say is thier intelectual property unless you legally have something stating otherwise. It is overkill, but the public has a tendancy to be all "Ohh that was my idea, wahh wahhh!"

personally if some games company used my idea in a game i'd just ask them to credit me as support or something - ya know not a big deal, artist and designers steal ideas from each other all the damn time (why do ya think there are so many clones of games that are developed at the same time )
personally i just wanna sit there and make ships all day for it, but as i said they turned me down - 4times, Sally? i think the PR girls name it... man she was so nice about it, usually companies just say "no" or "we're not looking right now" (yes even with a pic screen that says JOB AVAILABLE lol) but she was like, "i'm afriad you just don't have the professional experience and age that the team feel comfortable around, you work is great... but they're looking for a more seasoned professional."

i was a brush off, but man if i was turned down by jobs like that more then i wouldn't care that i'm not getting hired - was nice to have a friendly answer for once.
i ended up going over to EA to well work on spaceships hehee ... there weren't as fussy about my experienece, or why i lost my previous job

certainly look forward to Elite4 and from my POV Elite3 never happened, FFE was an addon/upgrade on Frontier to me - nothing more.
and toady, you don't think she's still kinda curvy

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Starlight
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Posted: 13th May 2003 23:55
"Dont forget, StarLight, Aidia isn't a real person y'know..."

I wish she was! But I guess one can't have everything.

Aida owns man, Aida owns... x-d

She Rocks!

"and toady, you don't think she's still kinda curvy"

I don't think she's too round at the edges...
MrTAToad
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Posted: 14th May 2003 01:40
Yes, she is very nice - I keep crouching down and then looking up...
But thats just me...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th May 2003 08:40
lol... hmm i wonder how you boys will handle TR:AoD
or even Kishari (you'll know who she is soon enough) hehee

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
MrTAToad
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Posted: 14th May 2003 12:14 Edited at: 17th May 2003 20:55
What is TR:AoD ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Ian T
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Posted: 16th May 2003 18:40
Rule All: All Of the Donkeys

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Rob K
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Posted: 16th May 2003 19:34
Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness.

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Rob K
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Posted: 16th May 2003 19:36
"ya know not a big deal, artist and designers steal ideas from each other all the damn time"

In my Art GCSE, we get quite a high percentage of the marks for stealing other people's ideas . (And the ultimate irony is that at the end of the course we have to sign the standard, "I did this all on my own and had no help other than the teacher" document)

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_102.zip
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th May 2003 12:07
not quite the same thing Rob... we don't look over peoples shoulder and make something identical - its more we get wind of ideas or something sticks in out mind and we incorp it into whatever we make

sides you call it inspiration and its all cool

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
MrTAToad
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Posted: 17th May 2003 20:56
Tomb Raider - one game I wont be getting...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Starlight
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Posted: 19th May 2003 21:30
Raven Wrote:

"Unreal3 is about to start development... Legend has already started the design"

Who will be doing the development? Will it be the same team who did Unreal2? Legend?

Why haven't Epic or Legend or Atari made an offical announcement yet?

What sort of time frame are they looking at?

Life is like surfing in the ocean, one minute you are on the crest of a wave, the next you are caught in the trough...
MrTAToad
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Posted: 19th May 2003 21:43
I should think it will be a good 2/3 years unfortunately...
If they have started Unreal 3...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2003 11:49 Edited at: 20th May 2003 11:53
yeah the exact same team are working on it (and they're still looking for a level designer for it lol)
and Toady did my ears here right... YOU NOT GETTING ANGEL OR DARKNESS?

:: put his hand on Toadies shoulder :: its because you couldn't complete any of the others isn't it mate

[edit-]
oh btw if your wondering why it wasn't announced at E3 that Unreal3 is in development, it might have something to do with its only about 2months in - and most of the team is still bug squishing the engine.
(the other half are intensively doing bugger all or learning about Cg)

Unreal2 itself actually changed hands mid development though and was completely restarted, only was in dev at Ledgend for around a year and a half because Epic started it and then decided it wouldn't pitch against Doom3 (which is still to appear lol) and saw the engine that Legend had been tinkering with using Karma 1.1 and gave them the opertunity to develop it
which i think was a bloody good idea, as the others just sucked big time lol

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
MrTAToad
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Posted: 20th May 2003 12:05 Edited at: 20th May 2003 12:11
You mean Angel Of Darkness - no, cant stand Tomb Raider - played a demo of TR1 on the Playstation years ago, and it was awful. Haven't played any since.

I'm doing quite well in other games, GTA Vice City (seems easier then GTA 3; which is nice) - Enter The Matrix (when I can be bothered to play it - slows down a lot if there are more than 2 people on screen at once, plus quite a few other irritating things; its certainly not as good as its cracked up to be) - I'm quite willing to sell it to someone.

At thats about it so far - dont buy many games, because at the moment there aren't any to interest me. I have complete a fair few - the rest I just give up on and try and sell.

FPS are my raison d'etere - generally complete them very quickly...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2003 12:17
hehe... take it your not an Oni fan either then
i like enter the matrix, its awesome - wonder what kinda rig you have if its slow for you though i've not experienced any slowdowns in it yet - but then i'm not like most people and set the game to like 1024x768x32, its actually cheaper on the processor to set 640x480x32 and put FSAA onto 4x (atleast GeForce cards it is) looks better to imho

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
MrTAToad
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Posted: 20th May 2003 12:30
I've got a 2Ghz Ti4800 machine, all filtering/anti-aliasing is off... I use 1024x768x32, because (on my machine anyway), it makes programs faster than on 640x480...

No, cant say I've played Oni...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2003 15:48 Edited at: 20th May 2003 15:59
you should get ahold of the Oni demo... best and most innovative for a good while
i've got wind that the original crew wants to develop a sequal but Microsoft won't allow it () but AoD has certainly been filling that with Lara's new fighting moves hehee, its so much fun running around the back alleys of London beating up innocent people for information

and thats stange about EtM cause the machine i've been playing on is a 1400+ w/GeForceFx 5200 - Ani Filter 4x - Texture Sharpening On - FSAA 4x
i set default detail settings, that might be why ... but it seemed to be running at a respectable rate about 50-60fps i'd say

[edit-]
guess what i found for you (^_^)
40mb contains training, mission 1 & 3



enjoy

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
MrTAToad
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Posted: 20th May 2003 18:58
Slight problem - cant find the file... Ah... What a shame...

So you dont get any slowdown with more than 2 people on screen once - the lobby/office area being very good examples of where it really slows down...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2003 19:53
nope no slowdowns at all, there is a section near the end where the buildings warp - but not really anything you'd really notice much.

oki i've found out why it ain't there

ftp://ftp.futurenet.co.uk/pub/pcgamer/zips/oni_demo.exe
ftp://ftp.futurenet.co.uk/pub/pcgamer/zips/oni_lev2.zip

they definately work, unless they've cut off non-subscriber access

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th May 2003 19:56
hey checkout what i found (^_^)
ftp://ftp.futurenet.co.uk/pub/windowsxp/homeuserfull.zip

hehee - sorry but i couldn't resist posting this, cause surely this is illegal ... its the OEM version lol

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
Starlight
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Posted: 21st May 2003 00:42
What is the best graphics card to have to do justice to games like Unreal2? I have a nVida GeForce4 TI4200 8x AGP 128MB DDR. Runs pretty well. Doesn't matter what resolution I have it at. Tested it with Unreal 2. The Antialiasing is set to 2x - to get rid of the stair step effect. Aida's hair look more natural this way. Image quality is set to best. And in the game everything is set up to high including all the shadows, etc.

My spec is a P4 2.4GHz. 1 Gb system ram. 80 Gb hard drive. And as mention nVida GeForce4 TI4200 8x AGP 128MB DDR. I built my new PC myself a few months ago. Unfortunalety the motherboard only handles 4x AGP but games like Unreal 2 still run fast and impressive. Usually at resolution: 1024x768x32. Higher settings are good to.

Life is like surfing in the ocean, one minute you are on the crest of a wave, the next you are caught in the trough...

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