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Geek Culture / Custom PC vs Commercial PC's

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 13:03 Edited at: 17th Jan 2007 12:07
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Whats the pro's and con's?
Can anyone recommend a good custom built PC that thay have put together for power? Games, Modelling, Video editing etc basically what I need is a power house.

Oh Imight add my brother works with computers. He often dismantles and rebuilds them so I would get his help for the building so I'm fixed there and don't need to be told I'm a noob you should buy a Dell! lol!

Or maybe somone knows of a place I can buy PC parts (In Australia) from a trusted warehouse for cheaper-then-usual prices?
Thanks!





EDIT:
CHECK BELOW TO SEE MY CUSTOM MADE PC!

http://ideal-entertainment.galekus.com
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indi
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 13:07
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commercial pcs means you pay for the badge. nuff said.
always build it yourself, you will always get a better part spread.

yeah the badge helps with fps always [saracasm]

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 14:02
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I just bought a laptop from www.Ibuypower.com. You may want to check them out and see how their desktops are priced. Otherwise, I do all my computer shopping at www.Newegg.com.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 14:15
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Looking at those sites, damn you Americans are lucky with your prices, lets just say in England it would cost those numbers, but with a £ sign, it's unfair I must say, bloody taxes.

"Listen to Jah Music..." - Bob Marley
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Chris K
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 14:34
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The advantage of building your own PC is you will never buy another one, you just upgrade parts one at a time.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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hyrichter
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 16:14
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Chris K said hit it right on there. I consider that I've had the same "computer" for the last 8 years. Of course every piece has been upgraded several times now, but it was usually one or two pieces at a time -- more memory, a new hard drive, new mobo & CPU, new monitor, etc.

Quote: "bloody taxes."

That's the beauty of online ordering in the U.S. You don't pay any tax unless the online retailer is in the same state as you are. I rarely pay tax on online purchases.

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TKF15H
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 16:24
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Quote: "Looking at those sites, damn you Americans are lucky with your prices, lets just say in England it would cost those numbers, but with a £ sign, it's unfair I must say, bloody taxes."

hah, you think that's bad? Here in Brazil I'd pay 70% import tax if I were to buy from some other country, or pay 2-4 times the price if I were to buy at a local store. >_<

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 16:36
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Quote: "That's the beauty of online ordering in the U.S. You don't pay any tax unless the online retailer is in the same state as you are. I rarely pay tax on online purchases.
"


You can imagine the envy there...

"Listen to Jah Music..." - Bob Marley
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lagmaster
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 17:55
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commercial pc's come with warranty's, but they are for what a year at most? get a 5 year warranty with the shop you purchase it from, means you cannot upgrade the machine yourself, only their technical staff can do it at a cost!

custom pc's, you get the default 1 year warranty with anything you buy, my last pc was parts mostly ordered from ebay. you can get some good slightly outdated motherboards for peanuts
but over time, with a custom pc, if you run out of hard drive space, you buy another, same with graphics, gameplay a lil bit stuttery, buy a new one.

there's more flexibility with a custom pc. i highly recommended if you dont know how to build one, is to just go on a small course or get someone who knows what they are doing to watch you and point out anything you do wrong.

once you do your first custom pc, the only pcs you would buy from shops are laptops.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2007 21:24
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All depends on your ability, if you have a good understanding of of PC construction and have the time to properly research every component to make sure there are no conflicts between it and any other component you buy, custom PC's can be great. Beware, putting the "best" parts in a machine means nothing, make sure they work with one another. Custom built PC's actually cost more now (at least here) then an out of the box model. As for voiding the warranty, my current system allows for replacing video card, sound card, memory, PSU and DVD without voiding the warranty, tampering with the MBO or replacing it does void the warranty.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
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jasonhtml
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2007 01:12 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2007 01:12
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commercial pc:
pros:
-it will work, you dont have to worry about compatability of hardware
-comes with a preinstalled OS
-less possibility of errors when you turn the pc on the first time. their computers are tested, your custom one wont

cons:
-harder to upgrade due to incompatability with OTHER hardware
-expensive
-cant get a high-end pc for a good price

-------------------------------------------------------------------
custom pc:
pros:
-upgrades are easier
-YOU choose the hardware
-cheaper
-you can get a high-end pc for WAAAAAY cheaper than what you would pay alienware or other companies
-in the process of building, you learn more about how a pc works and all of the parts.
-you get a warranty for each individual hardware piece, instead of one for the whole pc. this is good because, for example: if your RAM dies, just get new RAM. you dont have to turn in ur whole pc
-you can brag to your friends that YOU made your very own pc

cons:
-you have to learn about how pcs works and all of the components, or chances are the hardware won't be compatible
-[sarcasm]you wont get the uber Dell logo on your case[/sarcasm]


forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=78971&b=8&p=0
forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=91115&b=32
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2007 01:35
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Quote: "-harder to upgrade due to incompatability with OTHER hardware"


So true, there are only 3 sticks of Ram I can buy for my PC:

Packard Bell 128mb SDRam stick
Packard Bell 256mb SDRam stick
Packard Bell 512mb SDRam stick

spoilt for choice, if you do buy a pre-built PC make sure it is future proof, future proof means a motherboard where you can upgrade all needed parts as far you can, meaning PCI express slot, a CPU socket that can handle the sockets available on the newst CPU's, however you will find an AMD motherboard won't let you have a intel chip as far as I aware. And of course the ability to hold 16gb ram. That's what my new PC will be, (With a Dual core AMD built in, a PCI express gfx card, not the best in the world, but its upgradable and 2gb ram standard ready for 16 gb and is reasonably cheap, about the same price as a custom build.)

"Listen to Jah Music..." - Bob Marley
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Darth Vader
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2007 11:11
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Thanks for the great tips! I didn't realise that some hardware wouldn't work with each other! Does anyone know of a good site I can go to, to find out?

Newegg looks great! But I'm in Australia so that doesn't really work out for me! We have a RAM manufacturer here in my major city. Legend RAM so that great! But there was this site I was told about that I can't remember that was in Australia that had amzing prizes and loads of products.
Can't wait to start!


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HeavyAmp
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2007 17:01
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I got most of my computer parts from The Disk Shop. I Know theres a store on the Gold Coast and in Brisbane. I'm not sure if they are in Adelaide or not. They have very reasonable prices compared to most other computer shops around. Never do your PC shopping at Harvey Norman (Hardly Normal). Unfortunately for the past year I've been living on this freezing Island called England so I don't know the current prices of computers in Australia.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2007 18:14
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Quote: "freezing Island called England"


Hey, at least we had a nice and big heat wave this year, so give it some credit Besides where I am, the weather is mild, as opposed to cold, but then I suppose its much warmer in Australia

"Listen to Jah Music..." - Bob Marley
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Fallout
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 00:22
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Btw, on the Warrenty issue, it's true that if you buy a ready built PC it'll probably come with a 1 year warrenty, but so will all the components you buy individually. At least in the UK, most products fall under a compulsary 1 year guarentee, so if your custom built PC harddisk breaks, you just send that 1 component back and get it replaced. So, really, the warrenty/guarentee on a custom build PC is more convenient, because you only have to send one piece back instead of packaging up your entire PC.


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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 00:29
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Quote: "So, really, the warrenty/guarentee on a custom build PC is more convenient, because you only have to send one piece back instead of packaging up your entire PC. "


All depends on the company with a pre built. My cousin has an HP and about 7 or 8 months ago she had a problem with her HDD, HP sent a rep to her house and they replaced it on spot for her. they were there 2 days after she called.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 00:32
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With Aria, if they build it for you, you can get a larger warranty if you pay for it, it's still a custom computer, except you pay slightly more for some guy to do the work for you and you can have a bigger warranty.

"Listen to Jah Music..." - Bob Marley
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Phaelax
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 02:52
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I just priced out a relatively cheap system for a friend of mine. I laughed when she said she wanted to play Doom3 on her Athlon 1GHz and integrated gfx.

Biostar mobo Socket T (LGA 775) P965x/ICH8
Pentium D 805 2.66GHz (64bit, dual core)
2x512mb DDR2 800
GeForce 7600GS 256mb pcie16

Under $400, including shipping. (for america anyway)

Assuming an extra $200 for case/psu, harddrive, cdrom, sound, you can get a fairly decent machine for $600. And an extra $100 can upgrade that Pentium D cpu to a Core 2 Duo.


Here's what Dell can give you for $600:
P4 524 3.06GHz (only a 533mhz fsb)
512mb ram
80 hdd
16x dvd rom
15" flat panel
intel graphics x3000


I'd rather skip the flat panel and pre-installed Windows, and have overall better hardware.

I've always built my own for the past 10 years, cheaper and I know exactly what I'm getting.

If you're looking for just a cheap cheap Internet-surf machine, a prebuilt system may actually be cheaper in that case. But, I have actually be able to build a complete system with monitor for $350.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 05:24
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Not a big fan of Dell, but also remember that if you go to a store Best Buy, Staples etc there are usually large discounts/ instant rebates especially over the next month or two when people get their tax refunds.

Example from the sunday Best Buy flyer.

Emachines AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 3800+
17" LCD and canon color printer (unspecified model)
xp media center edition 1024 ddr2, 250gb HD DVD+RW 16x, 9 in 1.

now some of the stats are not stated so thats the best I can supply shows as vista premium ready, and after instant savings is $459.97

but I would expect prices to drop alot soon this is their big sales season for PC's

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Phaelax
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 10:57
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An Emachine is the last computer you would ever want to buy. I tried to warn my mom when she bought one for my sister, but nobody listens cause apparently I don't know what I'm talking about. I said she'd be lucky if it lasted 1 year. Well, 11 months later, harddrive shot, cdrom shot, and apparently the harddrive controller or possibly even the whole mobo was dead. I tested it with all kinds of hardware, that emachine was just plain dead just like I said.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 11:21
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E-machines are really not that bad if you:

Replace the power supply immediately upon purchassing
Add at least 1 more fan
Keep the case, fans, and all other parts clean once a quarter or so

I had one that played DVD's and a few games better than most of my other systems and ran for 4 years. I only replaced the powersupply (after the first 4 months) in all the time I had it I believe.

Now the best system I ever bought assembled and delivered to my door was an adamant custom computer system. I picked the parts and they assembled, tested, and done a 72 hour burn in. It costed a bit extra but was worth it.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 11:59
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I have a few systems, 2 of which are emachines including this one and I have 0 problems with it (IE on the other hand ), but some machines (or models I should say) can be a crap shoot. PB and compaq used to be either you got a never dying machine of one that blew up right away. Personal experience I have never had a problem with their machines, my old one (bout 6 years or so) is in my daughters room and she still uses it without any problems. My last machine (Hp pavillion) was really good till the PSU blew out and it was 2 weeks to get one it was some sort of ultra mini super power saver. I bought this machine at that time because it was a great deal and the monitor I had had for years was all but dead anyway.

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Peter H
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Posted: 4th Jan 2007 17:24 Edited at: 4th Jan 2007 17:25
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last (and only) eMachine my family bought was crud... had all kinds of problems, everything from the dvd drive being shot, to random re-booting for no reason whatsoever (wasn't overheating...)

it had so many problems the best buy people got sick of seeing us...

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indi
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 02:44
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http://www.umart.com.au in australia is a great resource.

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 03:46
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Thanks indi that was the one I couldn't remember!

BTW whats an eMachine?


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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 04:33
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Quote: "BTW whats an eMachine?"

Is it really that hard to look it up on google?

http://www.google.fr/search?q=eMachine

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 04:40
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Well I could have but I wanted to ask here!
lol


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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Jan 2007 05:47
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google search would've been quicker

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DieRider
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 20:36
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Darth Vader, i live in sydney and i put together the custom machine as follows

ASUS M2N-E Lifestyle
1GB DDR2 RAM
Sapphire ATI Radeon X1900GT
AMD64 AM2 x2 4200+ 2.2GHZ
Thermaltake matrix
100gb HDD

for $1500 AUD...

www.skycomp.com.au

The sad fact is that i can read script, but i just cant write it.
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Antidote
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 20:54
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I used to hate commercial PCs (and still do to some extent), but from Dell I got 2GB DDR2 RAM, ATI Radeon X1300 Pro, AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+ for a little over $1,000. True the computer came with a bunch of stuff I didn't want, but the Dell De-Crapifier program helped with that .


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Phaelax
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 22:46 Edited at: 7th Jan 2007 22:47
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Quote: "
ASUS M2N-E Lifestyle
1GB DDR2 RAM
Sapphire ATI Radeon X1900GT
AMD64 AM2 x2 4200+ 2.2GHZ
Thermaltake matrix
100gb HDD

for $1500 AUD...
"


Ouch, looks like if I ever move to Australia I should build my system before I leave the US. Using those specs and Wd for harddrive and Corsair ram, I did it for about half the price. How long ago did you build that? If it was recently, ouch.

$692 ($887.63 AUD)


Quote: "True the computer came with a bunch of stuff I didn't want"

So remove Windows and get a little refund.
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/05/1946215

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Antidote
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Posted: 7th Jan 2007 22:53
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No I wanted windows. The thing was is that it comes with like a 6 month subscription to AOL and random things like that, that you REALLY don't want. So the Dell De-crapifier deletes anything that it can and changes the registry so that your startup items don't include things like the dell support center. As Borat was say, "Is very nice"


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DieRider
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Posted: 8th Jan 2007 07:58
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My pc was the cheapest stuff i could get in sydney, bloody USA and their low prices

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 8th Jan 2007 13:21
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So I need the following to build a computer

Motherboard
RAM
CPU
PSU
GPU
HDD
DVD Burner
Case
Screen
Mouse + Keyboard
Speakers

Thats about it isn't it?
I was looking at getting one of the iMacs but they don't look like there really good for games or good for upgrading!


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Darth Vader
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Posted: 8th Jan 2007 13:32 Edited at: 8th Jan 2007 13:33
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WOW I just had a look at umart. It has an online system were you build your computer with the parts you want and then it gives you a price! I just tried it out but together a whole bunch of bits (I didn't even know if they work with each other).
I ended up with a system costing $3659 AUS. Not bad for what I had customised it for!

I will research some of the itmes they have and put together a real nice machine for me! Is it true that if you have a really good motherboard then that the main part for upgrading your computer in the future? So if I got a motherboard supporting 8GB RAM but I only started of with say 2GB, it would be cheaper but I could upgrade it for over a period of say 4 years?
Thanks I will show you a few configurations I come up with!


EDIT: Forgot to ask, is it illegal to run MAC OS X on a custom computer?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 8th Jan 2007 16:21
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Probably, as long as you own the disc (obviously). Though, I don't see too many people building custom Macs from scratch.

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 11:10
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I want to have two Hard Drives and Run Windows on one, and MAC OS X on the other.


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Darth Vader
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 12:06
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Okay so I went to Umart and customised a computer that I would really like heres the specs

Quote: "ITEMs to Order :
Intel CORE 2 EXTREME X6800/2.93GHz/4MB CACHE/1066FSB/LGA775
Asus P5N-E-SLI S775 QuadCore nF650i-SLI 2xPCIEx16 RAID GbLAN 1394a ATX
DDR2 2048MB(2x1G)PC5300 667Mhz Kingmax
Seagate Barracuda 320GB 7200RPM(16Mb Cache)
XFX GeForce 8800GTX 768MB Dual DVI HDTV SLI PCI Express Video
BENQ FP91G+ 19 inch LCD 550:1 SilverBlack monitor 8ms DVI
Sony DRU830A INT 18X DVD +/- DVDRW D Layer
Sony DRU830A INT 18X DVD +/- DVDRW D Layer
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi™ Xtreme Music
10/100 Netgear PCI network card(FA311)
Logitech Z-2300 THX 2.1 Speakers System
Thermaltake Soprano Silver with 430W PSU
Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard
Logitech G5 Laser Mouse
Microsoft Windows XP PRO (OEM)"


It all comes up to roughly AUS $4560. Is that a good or bad price? To me is seems really godd considering buying a Dell or other high end computer will cost me more!


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enablerbr
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 18:42
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why 2 DVD drives? wouldn't you be better with 2 Harddrives.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 21:49
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Seems a tad expensive to me.

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 02:31
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Quote: "why 2 DVD drives? wouldn't you be better with 2 Harddrives."

We have an old PC it has 2 CD drives. Ones a burner and the others a reader. It makes it so easy when I copy my backup CD's!

Quote: "Seems a tad expensive to me."

Really? Well I'm trying at the local place I know and see what they will charge me.


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Phaelax
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 04:23
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Why would you get DDR2 667 when the board can take 800? And why waste money on a 10/100 network card when the motherboard includes a gigbit NIC?

I doubt you're ever going to be burning 2 dvds simulataneously, so save a few bucks and replace the 2nd with just a standard dvd dual layer reader. (probably save you $30)

Also, I think $115 for a keyboard and mouse is ridiculous.

Well, I've done a search on Newegg. Here's the prices I found for various components and the total assumes the X6800 CPU and the faster GFX card.


Quote: "
Core 2 Extreme X6800 Conroe 2.93GHz - $970
Core 2 Extreme QX6700 Kentsfield 2.66GHz(twice the l1/l2 cache) - $985

Asus P5N-E-SLI nForce 650i - $140
Kingston 2x1GB DDR2 667 - $195
Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm 16mb cache 320GB - $95

XFX GeForce 8800GTX 768MB (630MHz/2GHz) - $640
XFX GeForce 8800GTX 768MB (575MHz/1.8GHz) - $540

BenQ FP91G+ 19" - $220
Sony DRU830A 18X DVD +/- DVDRW DL - $67*2
Creative SB X-Fi XtremeMusic - $93
Logitech Z-2300 speaker system - $105
Thermaltake Soprano silver - $79
Thermaltake W0062RU 420w PSU - $60

Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard - $72
Logitech G5 Laser Mouse - $43

Windows XP Pro - $140
"


Total: $2986 (3,787.00 AUD)

There's a $600 difference(USD), minus shipping. When I first read your post, I didn't see that your price was in AUD.

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UnderLord
21
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Joined: 2nd Aug 2003
Location:
Posted: 19th Jan 2007 14:40
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Quote: "Well, I've done a search on Newegg. Here's the prices I found for various components and the total assumes the X6800 CPU and the faster GFX card."


Listin to the man he knows


Although I do think he will need a better PSU 420W's probably isn't enough.

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Steve J
18
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Joined: 22nd Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posted: 19th Jan 2007 19:03
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with an 8800 I have a 800wt, It runs great. I dont know what the min is though.

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Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 19th Jan 2007 22:59
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I think most ppl user way bigger PSU's than they really need. A 430w has been able to handle my old setup: dual athlons (higher power consumption than Core2 chips), 4 harddrives, 2 cdroms, and a GeForce FX card which requires an extra internal power connection.

Core 2 Duo 6300 - 43 watts
Core 2 Extreme X6800 - 75 watts
Core 2 Extreme QX6700 - 130 watts

I think my Athlons were 90watts each.

As for a Seagate Barracuda drive, it uses 7-12watts. 9 watts at idle if it has NCQ, which it probably does.

I have no doubt that an 8800gtx takes a lot of power, but I couldn't find an estimated power consumption rating anywhere.

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Darth Vader
19
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Joined: 10th May 2005
Location: Adelaide SA, I am the only DB user here!
Posted: 20th Jan 2007 04:10
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Thanks Phalex that sounds like the system I want! POWER!!!
I'm going to go now and ring up a very good dealer and see what he will charge for construction!
These people are very good they always give a bit off the price!


http://ideal-entertainment.galekus.com
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Phaelax
DBPro Master
21
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Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 20th Jan 2007 10:50
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The more I think about it your price doesn't seem that bad for what you're putting in it, considering what you'd have to pay for Australian shipping and whatnot.

Still more than I would spend on a system even if I had the money, but you'll definitely have bragging rights.

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