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Geek Culture / tgc should make a rpg creator

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doom on cats
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 03:26
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I think that tgc should have made an rpg maker instead of fps creator, or make rpg maker and fps. It would really be my only source of any sucess.
I joined the forums 3 1/2 years ago and the most i've managed to create with code is a crappy landscape, a ball that moves all over it, and a couple very small trees scattered very far away from eachother.

But, seriously, wouldn't a 3D version of RPG MAKER 2003 be the best product to ever be created!

"In peace sons bury thier fathers, in war fathers bury their sons" - Winston Churchill(i think). "don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining!"
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Raven
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 03:36
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i think it would have a very good market potencial, but would be difficult to pull off in a way that would make it good enough.

imo TGC failed with FPSCreator. This isn't to say that it doesn't sell well, just that honestly speaking it isn't really a decent product as:
- It is very difficult to pick-up'n'play.
- Expanding can be quite difficult.
- Scripting again can be quite difficult.
- The engine doesn't have enough depth.
- The Editor/Levels prevent a number of aspects for world creation.
- Performance.
- Can't provide both multiplayer and single player.

there are a number of other niggling issues.
I mean one of the biggest issues many people have mentioned is the lack of built-in Ladders, or Flashlights.
Having multiple weapons assigned to a single button, or fully customisable controls.

Honestly could go on for hours about the problems the product has, and could also offer some sound solutions to TGC if they wanted them. With a product like an RPG Creator, there honestly is just so much more to think about; and it has to be designed right. Otherwise people just won't use it.

Biggest issue with FPSCreator is the useability. There is a market for such products, and it is quite big as it's like fanfics; almost everyone thinks they could do a better job at something.. and love to make their own stories with characters they like. Creator products are just an expansion on that; without having to do it all from scratch which puts many people off.

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doom on cats
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 03:45
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have you ever tried the product "RPG MAKER 2003"? It has a ton of capability and is a great system, it would be perfect it just had better graphics!
and, I agree with your ideas on fps creator, It was a waste of my money, I don't know how people could stick with it so long, no one really has gotten anywhere on it from what i've seen

"In peace sons bury thier fathers, in war fathers bury their sons" - Winston Churchill(i think). "don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining!"
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Raven
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 03:53
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I have used RPG Maker 2003, as well as RPG Maker Magic (Japanese PS2 3D version). They're kinda neat, but honestly I still found them far from what a point'n'click creation program should be like.

There were far too many options all at once, and customising aspects was quite difficult. I never did figure out how to make my own sprite effects; nor could I understand how the scripting interacted.

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doom on cats
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 04:13
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yet you understand darkbasic?

"In peace sons bury thier fathers, in war fathers bury their sons" - Winston Churchill(i think). "don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining!"
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Raven
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 04:24
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yeah, programming languages are generally simple; and yes I can code scripts to use in RPG Maker.. I just have trouble understanding how they interact with the environment, characters, etc.

The help files are far from perfect in RPG Maker, and the interface gives no help at all.

RPG Maker is hardly an hugely popular and well selling product. The reasons for this, are similar to why FPSCreator isn't either.
Whatever I make in RPG Marker on this notebook is SLOW, to the point where it is unplayable.
This just is inexcusable for RPG Maker on a P4-2.5GHz, Radeon 7000 (DX7), 384MB RAM, Windows XP, DirectX9.0c

I mean this notebook can run TheSims2, but not an RPG Maker or FPS Creator game!? imo there's something wrong right there.

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doom on cats
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 04:34
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hmmmm.... thats weird, I can't do crap with a computer language but i understood rpg maker just fine, and i have an Xp with a graphics card that sucks and I do fine with rpg maker, I made a game with 213 levels, then I quit because some people said the graphics sucks, man i'm an idiot.

"In peace sons bury thier fathers, in war fathers bury their sons" - Winston Churchill(i think). "don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining!"
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 06:35
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Well once I fine tune mine, and figure out how to have my engine compile a new executable for the user I will be releasing my RPG creator. (see sig)

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
My RPG WIP, check it out
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small fish
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 16:51
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all I want is fpsc with rpg makers script and event engine

The world is complicated only people are simple
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Chris Franklin_
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 17:04
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Quote: "- Can't provide both multiplayer and single player."


wtf, yes it can

Desert conflict progress: 1%
Media: 25% Coding: 2% Gameplay: 1%
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Steve J
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 17:57
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not without building 2 different exe's

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FINN MAN
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 23:19
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Hobgoblin Lord, just so you know you cant rebuild a EXE. Your going to have to use a scripting engine like LUA. I just got done setting my engine up to handle LUA Scripts and once you figure it out you never go back.

http://www.militaryfreezone.org/

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 23:23
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My plan is to have a seperate .exe imbeded in the main exe and have it write all the needed scripts into folders that will be attached to it, but we shall see how that goes. The problem I am having is finding a way to protect the user's media for their game.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
My RPG WIP, check it out
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FredP
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 02:46
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Quote: "imo TGC failed with FPSCreator. This isn't to say that it doesn't sell well, just that honestly speaking it isn't really a decent product as:
- It is very difficult to pick-up'n'play.
- Expanding can be quite difficult.
- Scripting again can be quite difficult.
- The engine doesn't have enough depth.
- The Editor/Levels prevent a number of aspects for world creation.
- Performance.
- Can't provide both multiplayer and single player."


Let's see..
No it is not difficult to pick up and play.
If you read the manual and follow the instructions in it you can make a game in minutes...nothing spectacular...but you get my point.
Scripting is no different than any other type of coding.
Whether it is easy or hard depends on the user.FPSC has a number of scripts included and there are a wide variety available in the scripts forum.
The depth of the engine itself and the performance again varies with the user,their hardware,etc.
FPSC is an excellent engine for the price.
If you don't like FPSC that is fine.I am aware that quite a few DPB users...and you,Raven,don't like FPSC for a variety of reasons.
That is fine.Everybody has their own opinions.
But maybe you should try doing a little more research on the subject before you say FPSC is a failure.
A lot of times whether a product is a success or a failure has more to do with the end user than the product itself.

Quote: "and, I agree with your ideas on fps creator, It was a waste of my money, I don't know how people could stick with it so long, no one really has gotten anywhere on it from what i've seen"


Then let me tell you about such projects as Project Luna,Fall of the Fireflies,Umbra,Darkest Island (which just came out),Commander Josh,most of the levels in the December Level Design Competition and a few others.
A simple search would have shown you that a few people have gotten somewhere.
I am sorry that FPSC didn't work out for you.That happens sometimes.
And you did have 30 days to use the trial version to see if you were unhappy with FPSC before you shelled out the bucks.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Raven
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 04:13
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Quote: "And you did have 30 days to use the trial version to see if you were unhappy with FPSC before you shelled out the bucks."


I got it free because I was Support Staff for TGC in 2005-2006, and honestly if you saw half of the support e-mails that came in for the product you would very quickly change your mind about many of the issues I've noted.

More to the point is if you honestly believe that FPSCreator is a "good" product; then try MapMaker for TimeSplitters.
In that product there was NO MANUAL, and you know what.. it was so damn simple to figure out and use, that I created an entire Single Player adventure within a day.

Unfortunately the MapMaker didn't quite have the same depth as the actual game, but this is mostly down to space restrictions on memory cards for consoles.

I could go through each point and explain to you in detail, how it is poor. Honestly though I feel I'd probably be wasting bandwidth because you've been an avid fanboy of the product since it was released.

Personally I can't believe it ever made it out of beta in the state it did.

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Nack
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 04:20 Edited at: 12th Jan 2007 04:27
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Awhile ago, i tried a remake of RPGMK2 on PC....thats what I been trying to achieve for the past year. However, A rpg maker is much much more complicated than a fps creator. I studied it intensively and realize it can only be done using a fake OOP system, which takes a long long time to create. I remember awhile ago someone asked TGC that, forgot what their reason was. probably they have better project to do. (DPX10, FPSCX10) lol

nack


DC got engine switch, refer to forum for more details.
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Raven
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 04:37
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Nack, I remember you're Nream project. Really had me excited.
Bet with decent planning it could be achieved quite well..

I mean I have a design document for creating an application to make basically any sort of 3D Game you could think of; but developing each of it's features in a modular way. So that rather than trying to make everything at once, support was added gradually for each type of game.

If you want I could share it with you, as I don't really have the time or patience for such a project.

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Nack
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 04:46
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thx, i'll keep that in mind. I am having my hands full rite now tryin to complete Nream. I switched engine to make it more stable (which worked!), I am programmin it in a plug-in sort of way, cus bad at makin eveyrthing at once and nor do have the time for it. Slow and steady win the race lol.


DC got engine switch, refer to forum for more details.
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Raven
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 05:09
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you moved it from DBP?

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Nack
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 05:28
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yea, dun really have much a choice. The bugs were driving me insane, (like arrays). I guess i'll wait for all the patch to come before using dbp again. Nream is going well, so i dun really mind what language its in. lol

nack


DC got engine switch, refer to forum for more details.
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FredP
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 10:45
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I'm not an FPSC fanboy in the way you mean it.
I acknowledge it has bugs and such.
It is not fair to slam FPSC though.
If you can't place a prefab,acouple of entities,an enemy or two and a player start marker then you have bigger problems.
Anybody should be able to make a quickie...if not amzing game in a minute or two.
I have had and do have some issues with the product but instead of blowing a blood vessel or having a stroke I have tried in every way to work with Lee to improve the product and work out the bugs.
Maybe you ought to check out some of the work being done with FPSC.
It's amazing what some of the FPSC users have done.
BTW FPSC has come quite a way since you used it.
I could argue with you but everybody knows it is pointless.
You just say whatever you want whether it makes any sense or not.
Is FPSC perfect?No.
Can you make a good game with it?Yes you can.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Crazy Ninja
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 10:50
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I agree with FredP. I've used the demo, and it was extremely easy to use. I would've have bought it but i didn't want to spend the money on it.

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Jeku
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 21:54
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@FredP - You like that 'Enter' button, eh?

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FredP
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 23:10
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Yep.Makes my posts look like poetry.
I am trying to lay off of it a little but it's like trying to quit smoking.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Locrian
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 23:20
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Fred , not that you need it, but I fully support your ideals on this. I find most of the guys that like bashing FPSC, don't really have much of a leg to stand on.

Yeah, I'm not a coder. I can plod along though fpsc scripts, but that far makes me anything. I consider myself much more an artist that wanted to see if I could see my work in a game. Someone like Errant, is pretty much the same way. I wonder how many of these guys that down FPSC have actually worked for big game titles like Errant has. He started out using fpsc as more resume for his weapons/mesh/texturing work, and ended up being inspired by indie game makers and the community. I thank goodness he's seen more in this community then the nobodies that down it. I've learnt tons from that man.

Quote: ""don't really have much of a leg to stand on.""

(now for the explanation to this comment)
To each their own. Some code, others do what they do. I've looked at a bunch of games, and demos on DBP side of things. Regardless of the code used to make the games, most look horrible and I wonder if the ones making the majority of the games have ever actually read any of the documentation that comes with either their modeling program, or they're texture software.

Would be fair for us FPSC guys to categorize DBP as something that shouldn't have made it out of beta because there's a few problems(I've read a few of the complaints), or most the games look like heck(I've seen a few of the games)?

Of course it wouldn't. That would just be us trying seem better then another community, and unfounded in our assumption of the engine instead of the game maker.

******************************************************************

Now on topic.

RPG maker would be wonderful,but as eluded to in other post, TGC needs to work many bugs from the point and click engine before they start tackling things like adding armor class, or strengths or any of the other myriad of contingencies that are needed for a role playing game. I'm sure at one point we'll see one.

FPSC wasn't supposed to support melee either, but crafty members have found ways around that, as well as adding armor, and a monetary system.
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David R
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 23:20 Edited at: 12th Jan 2007 23:24
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Quote: "If you can't place a prefab,acouple of entities,an enemy or two and a player start marker then you have bigger problems."


I downloaded the demo, and I was quite confused by the whole thing. The actual usage of the program wasn't complex, but the UI and the options it presented didn't flow terribly well, nor were they especially intuitive.

EDIT:
Quote: "
Would be fair for us FPSC guys to categorize DBP as something that shouldn't have made it out of beta because there's a few problems(I've read a few of the complaints), or most the games look like heck(I've seen a few of the games)?"


In that respect, I think you're right. DBP is plagued with issues,and shouldn't or really made it out of beta - there's a ton of stuff it's supposed to do, but doesn't. It didn't really warrant me spending my money. But then again, FPSC is built upon the same foundations as DBP, so you could say that these issues are shared between them


"History shall be kind to me, for I intend to write it" - Winston Churchill
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 23:40
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I think TGC should make a virus maker, endless practical jokes, ah those would be good times...haha I can imagine the advertisement on that one...

Click Me! Dolphins aren't Mammals, they're lizards.
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FredP
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 00:00
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I know that when I came across FPSC and downloaded the demo and used the manual (comes with the demo and full version in .pdf format) I made a game in a couple of minutes.
I have no problem with DPB or FPSC or any other engine in particular...every engine has them.
The problem I have is with the occassional FPSC basher.
While there was one here who had spent his money on it and felt it was a waste of his cash had every right to express his opinion as a paying customer some of the other bashings i have come across (an example of one earlier in this post) came from someone who didn't purchase the product,probably had not tried to use it since it was in EA and was generally wrong about quite a bit of what he posted.
It pays to do research...
I don't see what in the blazes the problem is between some of the FPSCers and some of the DBPers...
I know that we have quite a few younger forum members on the FPSC forums but there are some serious developers on there too...and some of us are adults.
It would be nice if TGC made an RPG creator...point and click...something like FPSC.But first of all they are working out the kinks in existing products.
Secondly,if you use FPSC you can make an RPG that has most of the elements mentioned here with a little inventiveness.
With the x10 products in development I wouldn't expect something like this any time soon.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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Peter H
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 01:45 Edited at: 14th Jan 2007 01:09
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You know, it's in times like these that i remember a wise saying. (Also because it cracks me up every time i read it )

"No matter how thin you slice the bread, there will still be two sides."

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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