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Geek Culture / The generation of computer game and program selling making you millions - over?

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 22:04
With massive pirating across the world thanks to our faithful interwebs, it's probably time we stop living the dream.
Sure, it's possible if you develop a game or application for the computer, you can end up making a lot of money for your effort and time's worth- but the make-big-cash-fast deal with today's illegal downloading doesn't seem to work.

Take Drew Cameron for example. A brilliant programmer, created a great 3D computer puzzle game that was extremely fun to play- Dumbo and Cool. He even spent a good amount of money getting professional voice overs and such. But the profit? Not what it should have gotten. It was worth so much more than how much it was bought.

From here, you could say with good internet marketing techniques, you can definitely sell more copies of a game.
But if the game gets more popular, then there's more a**holes around the world that would think it's ok to put it up on a torrent or pirating site for free.

Getting around pirating for this kind of stuff is extremely tough. It's possible, but tough.

Any ideas?

3.11 We do not tolerate posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member, group of members, religion, our company, our staff or any of our moderators, past or present.
tha_rami
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 22:07 Edited at: 7th Jun 2008 22:07
Yes, go take a look at Starwraith 3D Games, who has taken down pirating by simply adjusting the security process each time it gets hacked.

Piracy is a logical result of economy, which doesn't make it right, but I can't say I do not understand those who refuse to pay $60 for a game.

But yes, that generation is gone.


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soapyfish
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 22:08
Piracy has been around as long as people have wanted software for free. The difference today is more money is spent on develpoing video games at a professional level making it harder for one person in a bedroom to compete. It is still entirely possible to be a success at what you do but anyone hoping to make millions is, in my opinion, coding for the wrong reason.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 22:10
For indie developers it's probably gone. There are things you can do though that can make you money, like sell something for whatever they want to spend on it, and before you ask how the hell that works, it has been done succesfully.

Professionally though, no, software is still making millions.

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
JoelJ
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 22:19
I agree, it's sad that piracy is taking over. But let me tell you what, I get really ticked off when they over-do themselves and make it impossible to play my games without connecting to the internet to check and make sure my copy is legal, and all this other crud. So it's a two edged sword.
who knows what will happen :/

[center]
AlanC
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 22:58
Its too bad people are so dishonest now. Last year, people pirated over 2 billion dollars worth of software and music. (I heard that on Fox News)

The dream is gone. It will be even worse 5 years from now.


bitJericho
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 23:42
Quote: " Its too bad people are so dishonest now. Last year, people pirated over 2 billion dollars worth of software and music. (I heard that on Fox News)

The dream is gone. It will be even worse 5 years from now."


Lol, it's just more obvious now. People pirate as much now as they always have.


Hurray for teh logd!
AlanC
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Posted: 7th Jun 2008 23:45
Quote: "Lol, it's just more obvious now. People pirate as much now as they always have."


I disagree. I think the numbers have gone up over the years. It would have to change. Everyday, somebody uses a computer for the first time. People are just being cheap.


tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 00:51
Pirating software is becoming more logical and more accessible. People nowadays justify it with "I wouldn´t have bought it anyway" and actually get away with it.


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Diggsey
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 02:12
You should make the game free, but put adverts in it (not necessarily annoying ones, just ones that you might see in-game which add to the realism)

Xenocythe
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 02:18
That will also make it less worth to buy Diggsey

3.11 We do not tolerate posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member, group of members, religion, our company, our staff or any of our moderators, past or present.
Jeku
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 02:50 Edited at: 8th Jun 2008 02:53
I believe the age of an indie making a computer game and making "millions" is almost gone. You'd have to make the game so cheap people would prefer just to buy it than download it with a free virus attached (double the value!). $5 or so. But then you'd have to sell 200,000 copies to make $1 million gross. Most commercial games don't sell close to that amount.

In my opinion indie developers should focus on making console games either on Wiiware, XBLA, or PSN. At least it's a hell of a lot harder to crack.

Or you could make some business applications, as I have found that the business sector is less likely to pirate a piece of software, and you can charge a lot more for it. Look at where I work--- we have over 2,000 employees just at this one location. All of us have WinRAR registered (I hear they bought a 15,000 user license!). Business and middleware developers can make buckets of money by charging more and targeting a higher "class" of people.

-----------------

Quote: "but anyone hoping to make millions is, in my opinion, coding for the wrong reason."


And what is the right reason? Not all of us have the benefit of working 60+ hours a week programming for fun.

Quote: "make it impossible to play my games without connecting to the internet to check and make sure my copy is legal"


I hear ya--- I mean, *who* has an Internet connection nowadays? Blimey!

I say they should bring back that copy protection software that installs a trojan on your computer and blocks your machine from making copies of any discs. Much better than connecting to the Internet and sending a few kilobytes of data over. I mean, I just love plopping my disc in the drive everytime I want to play a game. Mass Effect doesn't do that and neither does, come to think of it, *any* software application you can imagine (PhotoShop, MS Office, Windows).

Quote: "People pirate as much now as they always have."


Are you serious? When I was a kid you had to dial up a BBS with your 2400 baud modem and download 1MB an hour. It would have taken me a month to download Photoshop. Nowadays any Joe can go to Pirate Bay or Newsgroups and download a copy in 30 minutes or less.

Piracy has exploded exponentially since the Internet has been around. That's just economics.

-------------


tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 03:26
Well, Jeku, we really disagree. If I pay for a game, I want to be able to play it even if I'm in the middle of the jungle or on the other side of the moon. If that ain't possible, I'd actually consider downloading or cracking it.


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Xenocythe
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 04:28
If your in the middle of the jungle or on the other side of the moon, then I think you have higher priorities than playing games

I agree with what you say Jeku. It would be cool if DBPro could port over to xbox 360 or something

The winrar situation is awesome.

3.11 We do not tolerate posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member, group of members, religion, our company, our staff or any of our moderators, past or present.
Zotoaster
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 04:42
Well, there's always XNA, which is perfect for this kind of situation. By the way Xeno, what's with the sig?

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
Xenocythe
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 04:54
Yeah, I was gonna mention XNA, but I don't wanna feel like I'm dragging TGC customers away on it's own forum.

Well, a mod changed it to this sig, cuz I had something about serdge adjo, so I thought... what the heck, keeping it there is a good reminder for those who don't read the AUP on a daily basis

3.11 We do not tolerate posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member, group of members, religion, our company, our staff or any of our moderators, past or present.
bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 05:31
I didnt say people are pirating *software* as much as they always have. Anyway, I've argued on this subject before, I don't feel like going another round this time


Hurray for teh logd!
Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 05:43
Hmm, well I'm currently working on a commercial hack n slash game (located in my sig). I will make it as good as I can; then sell it and see how well it does here. If I make good on it here, I'll most likely advertise about it and put it on big download sites. Yeah, I hate piraters! But I'm going for a decent price on the game like $15 a game and hopefully it won't make alot of pirater's target my game. Look forward to the ever improving powers of Norton and other good pirate deterents like web slapping with receiving a virus for giving out hidden url's.

All the best,

Beastegargoyle

Streets of Rage the best 3d beat em up ever check out the wip on apollo forums!
The Last Great Swordsmen Wip here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=124414&b=19
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 06:55 Edited at: 8th Jun 2008 06:55
Quote: "Are you serious? When I was a kid you had to dial up a BBS with your 2400 baud modem and download 1MB an hour. It would have taken me a month to download Photoshop."


Every been to a car boot sale? Not all pirating is done through the net.


I know people who used to pirate Playstation games - you just needed something plugged in a back, buy a load of pirated games for ÂŁ5 and you were set free to play them.

Of course this kind of pirating is in competitions with the free downloads on the interest, where nobody is charge the price of a CD.


I think a good thing Indie Developers might do is to try and make their own innovations in the gaming industry - not through superior technology, but creating well though out games that people like. I mean, a lot of games have innovative technology, but the game ideas and play are becoming fairly generic. One problem with the indie market is the marketing, unfortunately for products to sell well in a competitive market is for them to be well marketed and appeals to its target buyers effectively.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
dark coder
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 07:33
One way to not lose sales from pirating is to make your game mainly or all online, so they need to pay for an account, subscribe to one etc, no amount of file copying will allow someone to play without someone paying then. The only thing you need to worry about here is people writing private servers, but even then it's not really an issue with an MMO as they'd need lots of players to make it any fun, and doing so means servers, bandwidth and money. Or at least that's what I'll be doing .

5867Dude
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 10:39 Edited at: 8th Jun 2008 10:40
Quote: "Every been to a car boot sale? Not all pirating is done through the net."

I once went to a car boot sale in Lincon (Did I spell it right) and it was FILLED with people selling pirated DVD's

Although I do wonder how many people own 3DS Max/Photoshop?
3DS Max=ÂŁ2300
Photoshop=ÂŁ380
Together=ÂŁ2680


Was cool kid
Thraxas
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 10:56
Quote: "Although I do wonder how many people own 3DS Max/Photoshop?
3DS Max=ÂŁ2300
Photoshop=ÂŁ380
Together=ÂŁ2680"


I often wonder the same thing especially when a user posts in someone's thread "I can't afford to get your model pack, $5 is too expensive for me." and in another thread asks how to do something in Max...

[center]
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 12:12
Quote: "I know people who used to pirate Playstation games - you just needed something plugged in a back, buy a load of pirated games for ÂŁ5 and you were set free to play them."


Aaahhh...Chipping, I've heard of that, personally, I wouldn't let anyone near my Xbox 360 if they were trying to do that, I love the thing to much to risk it getting damaged......

Quote: "I often wonder the same thing especially when a user posts in someone's thread "I can't afford to get your model pack, $5 is too expensive for me." and in another thread asks how to do something in Max..."


That being said, there are some who genuinely own it, like a hand-me-down from a parent who got it from work, bought from EBay, (is that legal?), or found it on one of those Student-helper sites that pay most of the charge for you........

Wish I could afford Max......

Dazzag
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 12:41
Quote: "People pirate as much now as they always have."
Dunno about that 100%. I think it's easier to pirate now and a lot more people are using computers, so deffo the statement is true. But when I look back at when I was a kid (I'm thinking about 25 years ago here) then pirating at school was rife. And nobody gave a monkeys. Hell, my Dad worked at the local military base and they all copied games left right and centre, used the photo copiers to get copies of manuals, and school kids were like dealers when it comes to games. Hell I remember a teacher used to be one of my "clients", and he was an especially good one as he had a fantastic hi-fi that even worked on some of those problem copies...

Come to Cyprus and it's like going back a few years. I have 5 DVD shops on my street, and most of them pirate. One of them is 24/7 and has loads of pirated stuff. When I joined there the owner said not to blame him for the quality of some films because they were made with cams. Thats a proper store with signs, posters, automated DVD machines (those ATM type ones), and everything (DVD-Buster ) Hmmm...

I think the main thing is that games have moved on from being able to code something in 2 weeks and make loads of it (think Manic Miner and the like). People just won't buy something unless it looks (most important there) as polished as nothing else. So it takes teams of people years to produce.

I think the answer to financially successful bedroom coding (what we used to call it) is in little mini games, probably for mobile phones (and even that is getting more polished by the day), and with some element of online play. Or possibly if you can get in and program something for the Wii (have you seen the quality of graphics of that Warioware game????). You might be able to make something that sells fairly well if it is as original as hell (ie. almost impossible) but otherwise probably best to forget the PC.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 14:21
Ah the 3DSMax syndrome - the most expensive software isn't always the best one to use for your projects, but I suppose if you're willing to pirate 3DSMax, then it obviously means price doesn't matter.

Personally I prefer using cheaper, non-pirated software.

But Photoshop, well it's really not that expensive, plus you do have cheaper versions.

And of course with any major software, student licenses are always affordable

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
David R
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 14:30
Who actually realistically thought they were going to make a million?

The only real reason I want to make my own stuff, is to prove I can -i.e. as a 'portfolio'. I didn't actually expect to make a bucketful of cash - but to be honest, since my current game will be made on a budget of zilch, any return would be fantastic.


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 14:37
Well if you want to make a million, all you need is rich upper class twits - you might be able to convince them your game is rare, one of a kind and worth loads - them sell it to them for ÂŁ1mil?

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
soapyfish
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 16:21
Quote: "Quote: "but anyone hoping to make millions is, in my opinion, coding for the wrong reason.""


Quote: "And what is the right reason? Not all of us have the benefit of working 60+ hours a week programming for fun."


Doing something to pay the bills and doing something because you want to make millions are two different things. I just don't believe you should spend your time trying to make millions. Don't get me wrong I would love mucho money but I wouldn't live my life with that being the sole reason for doing what I did.

tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 16:57
Quote: "Although I do wonder how many people own 3DS Max/Photoshop?
3DS Max=ÂŁ2300
Photoshop=ÂŁ380
Together=ÂŁ2680"


I legally own Photoshop 7. Not 3D Max, though, rather use Milkshape and Blender for that stuff, lol.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 17:44
I think to earn millions you need to be a smart businessman and a smart businessman wouldn't invest in a market as a competitive as the gaming market - the only way to earn millions in the game market is to be innovative and stand higher in the crowd and have good marketing strategies. And it wouldn't be quick either.

If you're working to pay the bills, or out of a hobby then it's good.At the same time it doesn't mean you don't have to be competitive.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 18:04 Edited at: 8th Jun 2008 21:03
Xenocythe,

Quote: " Sure, it's possible if you develop a game or application for the computer, you can end up making a lot of money for your effort and time's worth - but the make-big-cash-fast deal with today's illegal downloading doesn't seem to work."


It's not that cut and dry. There's lots of factors, piracy is one but marketing/planning and not to mention the level of competition today just can't be ignored.

One change that comes to mind, is the move away from the demo/shareware model towards the FREE distribution model. In the past, free software had a real negative stigma about it (free = low quality), but today, we're so spoiled for choice and quality, punters seem to expect a free option. This is bad news for the budding home developer looking to cash in.


Quote: " take Drew Cameron for example. A brilliant programmer, created a great 3D computer puzzle game that was extremely fun to play- Dumbo and Cool. He even spent a good amount of money getting professional voice overs and such. But the profit? Not what it should have gotten. It was worth so much more than how much it was bought."


Did you buy it ?

Jeku
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 20:42 Edited at: 8th Jun 2008 20:44
Quote: "Well, Jeku, we really disagree. If I pay for a game, I want to be able to play it even if I'm in the middle of the jungle or on the other side of the moon."


Let's see-- let's pretend you spend 1% of your life in the jungle with no net access. 99% of your life is spent in your cozy first-world country with broadband access. 99% of your life you just send a few kilobytes over the net, or 99% of your life you want to dig out CDs and put them in the drive, dealing with autorun and scratched discs, etc. For that 1% of your life you can get a crack, which you'll probably do anyways for all those games that require a disc insert.

Did you know that DBP activates itself over the net? It's MUCH better than how it was before, where I had to pop the disc in every 100 runs. TGC got with the times

This is one of the few times I don't have issues with cracks. Legally they're not, well, legal, but it's insane that I have to put a CD in for a 10 year old game that would sell for $0.50 now, but I don't need to put a CD in when I run Office 2007, which retails for about $300.

Quote: "Every been to a car boot sale? Not all pirating is done through the net."


Do you mean a flea market? Yes, I used to go every Sunday Spreading physical copies of discs around is *obviously* not as efficient as uploading a torrent and having 20,000 peers seeding it to anyone who wants it

EDIT:

Drew Cameron's game always comes up in these talks, but let's get serious. No offense Drew, but I didn't see your game on any of the gaming websites or mentioned anywhere outside of this forum. This is not due to your not trying, and I completely don't blame you for that. It's a tough market out there trying to publicize an indie game--- you need $ to generate $, and that's true for any business.


bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 20:49 Edited at: 8th Jun 2008 20:49
Quote: "Let's see-- let's pretend you spend 1% of your life in the jungle with no net access. 99% of your life is spent in your cozy first-world country with broadband access. 99% of your life you just send a few kilobytes over the net, or 99% of your life you want to dig out CDs and put them in the drive, dealing with autorun and scratched discs, etc. For that 1% of your life you can get a crack, which you'll probably do anyways for all those games that require a disc insert."


Here's one solution, how about having neither?

Haha, but I know your answer on that one


Hurray for teh logd!
Xenocythe
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 20:57
Kevin,

Quote: "It's not that cut and dry. There's lots of factors, piracy is one but marketing/planning and not to mention the level of competition today just can't be ignored."

I understand what you mean. With the massive amount of computer games being sold around the world, and new ones being made every day by big companies and hobbyists, it's difficult to make a great deal of money.


Quote: "Did you buy it ?"

No, I did not. But that's the point I am trying to make, many people who saw the great potential and quality of the game just didn't buy it for one reason or decided to invest their money otherwise. That's only because in this community, many like I are minors. While I do have a couple debit cards under my control completely since I am a freelance web designer and such, I'm a kid and I think it's a bright idea to save this money I'm making.

So you can say- if not this community, extend your market, advertise more, more, and more!
Still, you're stuck with the fact that unless your graphics are next-gen, it runs great on the majority of systems, and has other killer good game factors, then you're going to have a tough time competing with all the other millions of games advertising more, more, and more.

3.11 We do not tolerate posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member, group of members, religion, our company, our staff or any of our moderators, past or present.
bitJericho
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 21:07
Honestly, I think the only way indie developers like us can earn money on a product is by letting the customer pay whatever they think is fair to download the software.

Of course, it really depends on what you've made. Plugins and tools offered to the programming community I think seem to do fine at offering a solid price.


Hurray for teh logd!
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 21:31
Quote: "Let's see-- let's pretend you spend 1% of your life in the jungle with no net access. 99% of your life is spent in your cozy first-world country with broadband access. 99% of your life you just send a few kilobytes over the net, or 99% of your life you want to dig out CDs and put them in the drive, dealing with autorun and scratched discs, etc. For that 1% of your life you can get a crack, which you'll probably do anyways for all those games that require a disc insert."


What if you're in a different situation? What if you can't access the internet or even have the internet because to don't use it or if your only internet access is a restricted one? (Such as through work, university, college, school etc.) For the past 7 months my only internet access has been only a rubbish little laptop because my main PC can't use the Uni accommodation's internet, my laptop did. In that time I wanted to play half life 2 and wanted to get Orange Box when I had the money for it. (which was spent on other entertainment) But couldn't because I couldn't use any of the games whilst offline. As for Steam itself, it is also a ram waster - on lower spec systems it takes away performance. Of course 7months is a small percentage of life, but as if I'm going to be trying to play Orange Box for the rest of my life?

It's good for security on piracy, but I don't think using the internet is efficient for everybody. (If you don't need the internet, paying ÂŁ6 or more a month is a bit expensive for just gaming) And I still haven't got Orange Box and will probably get distracted for a while before I pick it up, which will probably be second hand or in the bargain bin, so with that system I'm probably one customer lost.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 22:51
Quote: "Let's see-- let's pretend you spend 1% of your life in the jungle with no net access. 99% of your life is spent in your cozy first-world country with broadband access. 99% of your life you just send a few kilobytes over the net, or 99% of your life you want to dig out CDs and put them in the drive, dealing with autorun and scratched discs, etc. For that 1% of your life you can get a crack, which you'll probably do anyways for all those games that require a disc insert."

How about we take into account the rest of the world too? How about we take into account my vacations, usually 7 weeks without internet per year, as well. If I pay for a game, I expect to be able to play it anywhere, anytime.


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5867Dude
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Posted: 8th Jun 2008 22:59
Quote: "Ah the 3DSMax syndrome - the most expensive software isn't always the best one to use for your projects, but I suppose if you're willing to pirate 3DSMax, then it obviously means price doesn't matter."

I sometimes look at screenshots of 3DSMax and I go "Why do people pay so much for something thats almost as complicated as Blender!"
I like Wings 3D for its simplicity. If it had animation I would love it!


Vist freefungames.co.cc for free online games you can play at school!
Drew Cameron
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Joined: 30th Jan 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 9th Jun 2008 03:00 Edited at: 9th Jun 2008 03:02
Quote: "No offense Drew, but I didn't see your game on any of the gaming websites or mentioned anywhere outside of this forum. This is not due to your not trying, and I completely don't blame you for that. It's a tough market out there trying to publicize an indie game--- you need $ to generate $, and that's true for any business."


Do a Google search for it. It's on every gaming website.

Here you go: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=dumbow+%26+cool&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

It's also been in PC Gamer, GameTunnel and PC Max to name a few.

It's definately been put out there is all I can say. People simply didnt' buy it. Take that as a comment on whatever you want.

draknir_
18
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Joined: 19th Oct 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 9th Jun 2008 03:12
I agree with tha_rami as a fellow gamer, copy protection that forces an internet connection is incredibly annoying and frustrating, but as a developer, I think its come to a point where it may already have become a necessary evil. How else do you stop piracy (as a game-developer)? Regular software protection is cracked within hours of release for big name titles.
Chenak
22
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Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 9th Jun 2008 03:49 Edited at: 9th Jun 2008 03:51
Online protection can be cracked within hours, doesn't matter if it is online or CD protection if they use the same encryption method. The only reason some cracks have apparently taken a while recently is because of the new securom protection methods. Now that is cracked, online protection is as useless as the other methods.
SunnyKatt
18
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Joined: 16th Sep 2006
Location: USA
Posted: 9th Jun 2008 04:51
I'll just beg valve to let me sell my games through steam.

Kevin Picone
22
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posted: 9th Jun 2008 08:02
Xenocythe,

Quote: "I understand what you mean. With the massive amount of computer games being sold around the world, and new ones being made every day by big companies and hobbyists, it's difficult to make a great deal of money."


The fact is, all of us amateur/ indy / backyard developers make too many assumptions. One of the biggest, is that we tend live in the field of dreams world and think that if "we build it, they will come". There are exceptions to this (if you're first to market with something new for example), but generally this type of thinking is false. The primary issue is being that we overestimate the size of the market and therefore the commercial demand/need for our product. Assuming that since we love it and there's millions of gamers/computers users online, we should rush out and order that new beach house. That's dangerous thinking.

Quote: "No, I did not. But that's the point I am trying to make, many people who saw the great potential and quality of the game just didn't buy it for one reason or decided to invest their money otherwise. That's only because in this community, many like I are minors. While I do have a couple debit cards under my control completely since I am a freelance web designer and such, I'm a kid and I think it's a bright idea to save this money I'm making.
"


So if you didn't buy it, why are you assuming piracy killed it ? It's one of many factors.


Quote: "So you can say- if not this community, extend your market, advertise more, more, and more! Still, you're stuck with the fact that unless your graphics are next-gen, it runs great on the majority of systems, and has other killer good game factors, then you're going to have a tough time competing with all the other millions of games advertising more, more, and more."


Marketing is tough, online or otherwise. But that's a different discussion. Such as here

tha_rami
18
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Joined: 25th Mar 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 9th Jun 2008 11:59
Whoa, Kevin, you should join in discussions more often. That was the digital equivalent of extreme pwnage (no disrespect meant, Xeno)

I considered buying it when I learned about it, but then found out Drew didn't sell it anymore. Yeah. Just like that.


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Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 9th Jun 2008 16:29
From what I understand there are cracks for Half Life 2 and other steam games which don't need an internet connection (other than to download) so essentially there isn't a perfect enough security there which seems to be the reason I need to connect to the internet to play it. If I wasn't honest and didn't mind encouraging piracy, I would have torrented a Steam-free Half Life 2 so that I could play it anywhere at anytime. Instead as the honest gamer, I've not been able to play Half Life 2 or Orange Box (or would have done, had I bought it, which I was going to) for 7 months, during a period where I wanted to play both of those games and even now I can't play through the internet simply because my gaming PC can't. Add the factor that people may not want their gaming computer on the internet at the risk of viruses or running internet security.

Consider this, Steam + Zone Alarm + AVG + Game = Wasted resources. When on a computer that needs those resources to play the game, it lags terribly - when just using Steam+Game it still lags quite a bit on minimum spec on minimum detail (that's throwing out your internet security). Because of Steam I had to wait until I upgraded my RAM before playing Half Life 2 (which still lagged afterwards and had long loading times).

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
SunnyKatt
18
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Joined: 16th Sep 2006
Location: USA
Posted: 9th Jun 2008 19:36
mmhmm, I...

Run about 50 - 60 processes at any one moment
Have about 650 - 700 Page file megabytes used up usually
The biggest users of my ram are my antivirus stuff.

I use Norton, Spyware Doctor, and Spybot s+d, so it slows things down a bit.

Jeku
Moderator
21
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 9th Jun 2008 23:31
Quote: "If I pay for a game, I expect to be able to play it anywhere, anytime."


So I take it you don't use Steam at all? In the future we'll be buying all of our games on apps like Steam, which require online activation. Get with the times, man.

Quote: "How about we take into account the rest of the world too? How about we take into account my vacations, usually 7 weeks without internet per year, as well."


There's not a lot of "the world" that is not connected to the Internet. Also, most working class people are not so fortunate to have 7 weeks vacation a year--- congrats! In my case, I'd just as rather be put out by having to pack a giant CD case with all my games on them.

Mass Effect found a happy medium. I installed the game, it activated one time, and that was it. No discs, no continuous activation. That is the best of both worlds, don't you think?


tha_rami
18
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Joined: 25th Mar 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 9th Jun 2008 23:49
Not a lot of the world thats not connected to the internet? You're one spoiled mister, Jeku.

And no, correct, I do not use Steam at all. I like digital distribution, sure, but as soon as I install my game and enter my license, as in like, indeed, Mass Effect, I expect it to work. Even worse, when I buy it on disc, I expect it to work WITHOUT digital activation at all.

I must admit that with all the crap they install on my PC just to game, downloading is getting more and more attractive. Its an emotion I hear a lot around me, and even a pro-fair trade guy like me can't help but to wonder whether I'm paying for all sorts of rootkits and official spyware or a game.


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Chenak
22
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Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 10th Jun 2008 00:03
Quote: "So I take it you don't use Steam at all? In the future we'll be buying all of our games on apps like Steam, which require online activation. Get with the times, man."


Except it doesn't prevent pirating... steam games that are worth being pirated have been, within seconds o.o. If it did actually prevent pirating that would be brilliant and I would be behind it 100%, but it doesn't. I say again, online protection does NOTHING to prevent piracy.

Now, I don't mind steam, when it works it is brilliant. I was at university dorms and I had NO method of getting any game validated because of the blocked ports, this means I bought a game that I couldn't play for a bloody year. Its not as if I can drag my desktop to a starbucks and activate it there. This does not seem fair to me.
Jeku
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21
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 10th Jun 2008 00:06
I guess we'll just agree to disagree then


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