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Geek Culture / Project natal

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castek
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Posted: 1st Jun 2009 23:50 Edited at: 1st Jun 2009 23:58
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If you watched E3 this morning then you know what I'm talking about!

Project Natal, The latest thing from Microsoft.

if you didn't get a chance to see it here is a vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oACt9R9z37U


its really cool.

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lazerus
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:02
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tell me this is real.....


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castek
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:08
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yup, as far as i can tell, they demonstrated it live from Los Angeles this morning!

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:18
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I read about this (or at least something similar) on CNN.com this morning, called X-Box Fluid. Pretty neat.
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xplosys
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:18
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Impressive. If only that video wasn't heavily edited. If they come out with half of that working correctly, it'll be a miracle.

Brian.

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Math89
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:25
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If this thing exists, I don't believe it looks anything like this... I don't really believe that the image recognition can manage to perfectly understand what is happening, especially when there is the whole family moving in front of the tv. And what about this stupid scanning thing? Why the hell would it make a blue scanner light effect with a sci-fi sound when the device is using a camera in real-time for the rest? Moreover, I don't really believe that the game could work with any kind of moves... What would happen if you stand-up on a chair? Would your character fly and avoid all his enemies?

And even if it works perfectly, who could play a Tekken game on it? I don't think a lot of standard kids know a lot about kung-fu.
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castek
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:30
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it most defiantly does exist, maybe in the trailer for it some of it is fake but if you look at the Microsoft press conference they actually demonstrate it and it works nearly perfectly. Of course it won't work on all games just the specially designed games. and I dont know about a whole family but it can at least support up to two people. and the scan effect is just to make it look cool.

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Roxas
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:32
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Only if they read brain waves or they have some hidden devices inside of the clothes, no this does not exist.

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castek
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:35
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and why would you say this?

They just demonstrated it live in front of millions of people on national television. Microsoft would not, Could not do it if it was fake.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:37 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 00:39
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http://video.ign.com/streaming/e3-2009/

Go here and skip the video back until it says 12:54pm. The first demonstration begins at 1:03pm

After the (Obviously edited) introduction video, there are a few live demonstrations.

Seems to be working pretty well.

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Roxas
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:38
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Quote: "and why would you say this?

They just demonstrated it live in front of millions of people on national television. Microsoft would not, Could not do it if it was fake."


I don't belive until i see it myself. There is not so much to trust nowadays.

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castek
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:39
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fine look at the vid BiggAdd posted (Thanks BiggAdd)

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Roxas
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:41
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Quote: "fine look at the vid BiggAdd posted (Thanks BiggAdd)"

Does not work under Linux, thanks to retarted custom player. Also videos aren't proof.

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Math89
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:41
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Well, this video is obviously a completely faked commercial crap. Look at the kid scanning his skateboard, he's got his fingers on the board. And Curiously, they don't show up during the game.

I understand how the device would work, using one or more cameras and some image recognition program. But it can't be as perfect as it is shown here. I guess that if you wear a white tee-shirt in a bright room, the system will be completely confused. If there are many people around the player, the device would need to be very good, in order to distinguish perfectly who is playing and who isn't.
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:47
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I don't think they'd bring out a fake at E3 (This is at E3 right?)

So, how does it work? Is it the carpet or something?

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castek
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:52 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 00:52
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Quote: "(This is at E3 right?)
"


Yeah it is

Quote: "
So, how does it work? Is it the carpet or something?"


No, theres a special camera that you plug into the xbox that can sense 3d movement.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 00:58
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Ah, I think I saw something similar to that tested on one of James May's programs. Interesting.

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xplosys
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 01:04
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They've been playing around with this for years, but never got it to the point you see in the video. That's where they want it to be, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It's a commercial, not an actual demonstration.

Brian.

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castek
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 01:08
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Quote: "It's a commercial, not an actual demonstration."


Yeah but they have an actual demonstration where it works pretty near perfect.

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xplosys
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 01:26
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Quote: "Yeah but they have an actual demonstration where it works pretty near perfect."


No doubt, but I'm sure it's a well scripted demonstration in a controlled environment. I hope they have advanced the technology that far, but I have my doubts. We'll see if and when it's released.

Brian.

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Profit
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 03:14 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 03:22
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Quote: "Only if they read brain waves or they have some hidden devices inside of the clothes, no this does not exist."

Quote: "Does not work under Linux, thanks to retarted custom player. Also videos aren't proof."

Quote: "I don't belive until i see it myself. There is not so much to trust nowadays."

You were wrong. Just admit it.


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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 04:15
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dear... god... If that's real... wow...
I may just get an Xbox if thats real and works like as well as the commercial.

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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 04:32
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Wow. Wow. Wow. I realize that some of the demo's/videos were scripted, but even so, the concept behind the technology is amazing. Even if this isn't perfected for another 10 years, the point is, the technology now exists to start, even if just a basis for the future. Now, to finish watching the videos...


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Darth Vader
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 05:01
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Does looks pretty amazing, I mean c'mon that would be so cool. But still I don't know how it would work, for some games. As you see in the commercial the little kid is marching forward as the monster, but what happens when he runs into the TV?

I mean if you stand stationary then how does it detect forward or backward motion? Better not be bloody voice recognition! "Go forward" I'd hate that.

I haven't watch the video BigAdd posted, but if it works well then I can't wait!

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Dave J
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 07:57
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Yeah, the first video has a disclaimer right at the start that says it's a "product vision", and not the actual product. However, that's what they're aiming for.

Either way, seems like it'd be a bit awkward trying to steer a car without actually holding onto something...


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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dab
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 08:55
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Quote: "After the (Obviously edited) introduction video, there are a few live demonstrations."


lol, In the video, he says something along the lines of "It works on past created x-box 360's, and it will work on future x-box 360's". I was like "Well duh, you're marketing it for the 360". Sounds like he was REALLY trying to hype it up.

The first guy to announce the product, he really was a bad/lame PR. Common Microsoft! You can do better

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 09:02
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Quote: "lol, In the video, he says something along the lines of "It works on past created x-box 360's, and it will work on future x-box 360's". I was like "Well duh, you're marketing it for the 360". Sounds like he was REALLY trying to hype it up."


Or he was clarifying that unlike some past consoles, you don't need a new model to use this.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 11:46
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It looks really cool, I just watched the E3 video on XBL and it seems the version they were using on stage was just a prototype and not the final product, the one in the trailer however seems more or less their vision of what the product will be like.

Though I really wonder what the technology is like behind this, I can see similarities with the Eye Toy (I remember playing with this and thinking that it was quite cool), except more precise and better at detecting movement. I can see this as their response to the Wii's motion sensors and seems quite awesome.

It'll be interesting to see how well it develops.

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 12:09
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I'm sorry, but I lol'd hard at this commercial. It was even worse than the Wii ones, and those were pretty corny too.

If MS actually get's this to work, say goodbye to the Wii and Nintendo's 10 year gameplan.

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Michael P
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 12:52
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This is insanely cool, it wouldn't take me long to smash my TV though using this

The dad looked like he was having too much fun changing the tires in the pit stop

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Dragon Knight
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 12:54
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i think joysticks will never go out the window, long live button mashing!


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Jammy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 13:16
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Yea, that commercial seems to be a concept video, Very impressive and shows some possibilities but I don’t think it will quite work like that.

e.g. The Dinosaur moves before the boy. The Scanning is obviously fake etc.

Also real voice recognition is still quite poor and even if they have nailed that can you imagine getting near the end of Halo 5 and someone comes in and says "I’m OFF to the pub" and Your X Box switches off.

I seen this cool article on CNET

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-10253892-235.html

and recommend you watch the CNET video, It is obviously real and shows some Glitches with the movement tracker.

X Box.com says

Quote: "This incredible new experience is made possible thanks to the Project Natal Sensor, which combines an RGB camera, depth sensor, multi-array microphone and custom processor running proprietary software all in one device. Existing cameras and controllers only trace movement in 2D, but Project Natal tracks full body movement in 3D and responds to commands, directions… even shifts of emotion in your voice! "


All very Impressive and hope that it will work with XNA, not be too expensive and do most of what it says.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 13:37
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Quote: ""I’m OFF to the pub""


Microsoft aren't that stupid. It'd need to be explicitly "Xbox, off".

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Nickydude
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 13:59
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8077369.stm



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Roxas
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 14:59
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Quote: "You were wrong. Just admit it."

Like i said, i won't belive until i see it myself. If it works then sure it will be amazing.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 15:01
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Aww, someone's almightly godly invincible ultimate incomprehensibly inconquerable Linux can't play a video. ^^

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Diggsey
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 15:05
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Quote: "Aww, someone's almightly godly invincible ultimate incomprehensibly inconquerable Linux can't play a video. ^^"


To be fair, the video player does suck, and won't work for me in internet explorer, and when I tried to use flock (which is just firefox with some extras) it says browser not supported, even though flock shows up as firefox to an html page


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Roxas
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 15:32 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 15:33
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Quote: "Aww, someone's almightly godly invincible ultimate incomprehensibly inconquerable Linux can't play a video. ^^"


So by your logic, Xbox sucks because it can't play PC games. The thing is that the reason the video player on that site does not work because the developers of that video player does not support Linux. So if i created a pub and would only allow in those who use black uniform, it would be basically same.

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Jammy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 17:43
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Quote: ""I’m OFF to the pub""

Microsoft aren't that stupid. It'd need to be explicitly "Xbox, off"."


LOL - Remember Microsoft are brains behind such greats as when you want to turn off your computer - Press Start

And my all time favourite error i got when building a PC - No Keyboard detected, Press a key to continue.

Anyway Natal looks great and Microsoft has done many good things - just hope it pans out the way we hope.

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Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 18:47
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Wow. If this is as precise as they make it out to be, then I'd definitely buy a 360 in the future!


"If you want lots of people to play your game make it simple; lots of people are simple." -Obese87
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JLMoondog
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 19:23
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Sid Sinister:
You have to remember Wii is the most affordable console on the market...and I'd hate to see what kind of price tag they put on this 'add-on'. Not to mention you have to own the Xbox already, unless they have a box bundle of the two..then your looking at 600+. That's my guess at least.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=151107&b=8&p=0
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 19:37 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 19:42
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Quote: "You have to remember Wii is the most affordable console on the market...and I'd hate to see what kind of price tag they put on this 'add-on'. Not to mention you have to own the Xbox already, unless they have a box bundle of the two..then your looking at 600+. That's my guess at least."


But that is like comparing the PS3 and the PSone. Sure the PSOne has a similar controller and they both play games. But it doesn't mean you would buy the PSOne because its cheaper. You get much more for your money with the PS3.

Project Natal is in a completely different league to the Wiimote. In fact, if they do manage to pull of their vision, waving around the Wiimote will look incredibly primitive. Especially considering Project natal isn't only a full motion body capture device, but a camera and microphone (With voice and facial recognition).

Also one project natal devise will support 4 people.

The price of a Wii remote and Nunchuck in the UK is about £45. The price of the Wii is about £180.

£180 + (3 x £45) = £315 (This isn't including all the frivolous extras you have to but if you want to use the Wiimote as a gun)

Worryingly the price of the Xbox360 premium is also £180
I think the 360 is starting to look like the better option!

I can't see Microsoft charging more than £100 for this.


Don't forget about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

Project Natal could be used to pull something like this off (Would save strapping LEDs to your face)

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 19:40
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Quote: "You have to remember Wii is the most affordable console on the market"


BS. £50 more than the 360.

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castek
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 19:58
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Actually you can get the xbox 360 arcade edition for less then the wii

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=XBOX360-ARCADE6-OB&cat=GAM

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David R
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 20:02
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Quote: "But that is like comparing the PS3 and the PSone. Sure the PSOne has a similar controller and they both play games. But it doesn't mean you would buy the PSOne because its cheaper. You get much more for your money with the PS3."


No, because they're different generation consoles. If you're going to make an analogy, at least do it right

Quote: "natal isn't only a full motion body capture device"


How useful is that actually going to be, though? Unless the console can detect each part of your body with high accuracy (i.e. work out what is your hand from the other parts of your body etc.) this functionality will be annoying, limited, if not completely useless. It simply makes me think of the EyeToy.

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Seppuku Arts
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The Arcade is like £130, that's pretty cheap. Though you'd need to spend £60 for the hard drive, so buying the Premium is probably worth it, which you can get for about £170

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 20:03 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 20:11
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Quote: "Actually you can get the xbox 360 arcade edition for less then the wii"


True, but without a hard drive, you have pretty much eliminated all your movie, game, expansion and demo download capabilities.

Without the Hard Drive, the entire marketplace pretty much becomes obsolete.

Quote: "
No, because they're different generation consoles. If you're going to make an analogy, at least do it right"


It doesn't matter what generation an electronic device is from, what matters is the performance of the device.

If I released an empty box with a toy monkey sellotaped to the top, and marketed it as a next generation console alongside the 360, by your logic, if it was cheaper than the 360 it is the worthwhile purchase?

Quote: "
How useful is that actually going to be, though? Unless the console can detect each part of your body with high accuracy (i.e. work out what is your hand from the other parts of your body etc.) this functionality will be annoying, limited, if not completely useless. It simply makes me think of the EyeToy."

From the stage demonstrations, it seemed to do a lot more than just EyeToy.

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castek
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 20:07
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well, the arcade version is mainly for those who dont have xbox live. but even so with out download capabilities it is still better then the wii.

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David R
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 21:31 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 21:57
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Quote: "
It doesn't matter what generation an electronic device is from, what matters is the performance of the device."


[ModEdit] the generation of the device dictates the games available to it - i.e. the entire purpose of a console.

An XBOX could probably equal or even outperform a Wii to some degree (Close processor speeds, NV2A GPU in the XBOX) but it's a completely stupid comparison, because the XBOX is obsolete in terms of games available to it.

Quote: "From the stage demonstrations, it seemed to do a lot more than just EyeToy."


Yes, it can do more - but the whole-body usage just sounds like it's going to end up as eyetoy, unless it can accurately differentiate between body parts.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 22:02 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 22:03
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You may disagree with me, but please try not to speak like that.

Yes I may have been a little brash comparing the PS3 with the PSOne, but I was merely trying to make a point.

Quote: "the generation of the device dictates the games available to it - i.e. the entire purpose of a console."

Not really, what about the PS2?

And considering most Wii games are completely different and custom to the console, I wouldn't place the Wii in the same standings as a PS3 or an Xbox360.

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