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DarkBASIC Discussion / DarkPro's - What do you think?

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Link102
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 15:37
can the gun object be animated if it's locked?

No Time To Code
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 16:04
I would think so. You could test by using any animated you may already have and lock it to the screen. The z value has to be set to a positive value. You also may want to use the DISABLE OBJECT ZDEPTH command. According to the manual, it's specificly for this purpose so the gun will always appear over any other objects.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. --Adam Smith
Link102
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Posted: 11th Apr 2010 16:07 Edited at: 11th Apr 2010 17:01
yea, about that animation I'm trying to export the animation for the ammo crate and it's just disappearing on play object.
Weird, I'll fiddle around and hope I get it fixed.

edit:
ok I need help with this
blender -> dark basic
the animation is just the lid rotating from 0 to -79 on the x axis in 25 frames.

Latch
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Posted: 13th Apr 2010 23:54 Edited at: 13th Apr 2010 23:58
Sorry, I've been pretty busy lately...

@link102
If you can avoid it, don't use LOCK OBJECT ON . It's good for a quick demo, or for texturing something onto a plain like a radar or HUD indicator of some kind, but it isn't too good for complex 3d objects. The object won't have proper collision, sometimes inverts the normals, no lighting response, the list goes on...

For your machine gun rotation, whenever you set an object oriented to the camera, think of the object as backwards to the camera, sort of like a mirror. The camera looks into the world, and the objects are reflected back - so to solve your machine gun problem, all you have to do is reverse the order of it's rotations:



Quote: "yea, about that animation I'm trying to export the animation for the ammo crate and it's just disappearing on play object.
Weird, I'll fiddle around and hope I get it fixed."

The blender direct x export outputs matrix rotation animation keys which will make your computer blow-up in DBC when you run the animation!

The easy fix for what you describe as a simple animation, is to export it, open the file up in a text editor, look for a template header name that looks something like this near the bottom of the file:

AnimationSet animset {

I specify the bottom because there is likely a definition of this at the top of the x file that you shouldn't touch.

Delete this header and everything that follows it, save the file, load the file into DBC and



You can save this animation with



Open this anim file, and open your X file of the ammo box. Copy everything from the anim file except xof 0303txt 0032 and paste that at the bottom of your X file where you had previously deleted all of the animation keys.

Save you X file with the new anim information. Try loading it and plating it in DBC.

There's one thing I thought of as I'm writing this, if you rigged the box with a skeleton, this probably won't work because there are other things that are saved in the file besides the animation keys that can cause problems. But if you set up your box with mesh limbs as I described earlier in this thread, it should work.

Enjoy your day.
Latch
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Posted: 15th Apr 2010 02:18
@No Time to Code
I think your ideas with using FSM are great. I'm excited to see you implement them as you plan. It should give some good organization and ai handling methods to the project.

Enjoy your day.
Latch
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Posted: 25th May 2010 17:07
keeping this alive

Enjoy your day.
Latch
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Posted: 4th Jul 2010 22:14
Believe it or not, this is still being worked on. There has been some redesign and some possible changes to game flow and some of the mechanics, but it is still moving forward.

However, because of the changes and the consistent (however slow) pace in terms of implementation, the team is locked. This means that at the moment, we are not looking for additions, changes, or team members. So if you haven't contributed through May or June in terms of actual submissions or even discussion, you are not considered to be actively working on this project.

Where appropriate, we will use any submissions or ideas that have been presented and credit the contributors accordingly. Thank you to everyone that has helped get this project off of the ground.

Real life is dictating the time line for completion; but rest assured, this will get finished.

Enjoy your day.
TheComet
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Posted: 5th Jul 2010 12:32
So how's this going everyone?

TheComet

Latch
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 02:13 Edited at: 9th Jul 2010 02:17
Pretty well.

I've been held up with a couple of personal issues so I haven't been able to put my full brain in to concentrating on a couple of things I'm supposed to get done. No time to code has been 100% with meeting his assignments and responsibilities.

The environment is done.
The alien is done and fully animated.
The waypoint system is done.
The pathfinding in the house is done.
FSM has been implemented.
There's a small physics engine on the table that needs a little adapting to the game.

The collision is being revamped. It was basically done using all DBC, but a couple of challenges have come up with positioning and shooting, and instead of figuring out how to manage these issues elegantly with little processing power using native DBC commands, we're going to use Sparky's collision DLL to get things done sooner.

I hadn't wanted to use any DLLs; so this was a complete DBC project, but the circumstances have trumped that. But that doesn't mean we won't still take a stab at finishing a 100% DBC project - everything is already in place for it - time and interest permitting.

Enjoy your day.
TheComet
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Posted: 9th Jul 2010 12:34
Quote: "I hadn't wanted to use any DLLs; so this was a complete DBC project, but the circumstances have trumped that."


I disagree with that statement, because DLLs BELONG to DBC, so it's still technically speaking a pure DBC project...

Anyway, this is really coming along nicely, great job everyone Keep up the good work

TheComet

Digger412
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Posted: 13th Jul 2010 09:27
@Everyone - I haven't been able to contribute much and a major thing has come up, my house got struck by lightning and burned on June 24, so for the past three weeks we've been demolishing the upper story. The family is all fine, and we'll rebuild, but all of my stuff burned so I have to more than likely permanently drop out because of what has happened. I wish everyone who is working on this project good luck, and I hope that it is finished completely and meets every goal and challenge placed before it.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 18th Jul 2010 00:06
@Digger
Sorry to hear about your home, I hope things get back to normal for you quickly. Thanks for the good thoughts about the project, I belive we will create a fun game!

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. --Adam Smith
Latch
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 02:42
I'm very sorry to hear that digger412. I wish you and your family well.

Enjoy your day.
Latch
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Posted: 9th Sep 2010 17:43
This is still being worked on. Unfortunately, some of the delays are due to the aliens' bad behavior. I never realized that extra-terrestrial beings were so into themselves!

I managed to snap a video on my cell phone of an alien throwing a fit at one of the assistant directors over the size of it's dressing room compared to the main player. Sheesh! What a diva!

see attached...

Enjoy your day.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 25th Oct 2010 23:07
How is this project going? I hope you're not scared by the curse of the Alien game after what happened to Digger's house! Is your house fixed Digger?


Do oranges know what colour they are?
Latch
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Posted: 26th Oct 2010 01:24
Thanks for asking!

This project is coming along. There were many delays due mostly to personal situations. The game environment has been redesigned. Some of the goals listed in the original game design document would have resulted in major game engine work. As listed in previous posts, some of the problems were:

1. Allowing the player to move inside and outside of the house - the object being to be able to visit a storage shed to retrieve supplies. This opened up the question - Why wouldn't the player just leave the farm? Why stay there and battle creatures if they can leave the house? How do we keep the player from leaving, logically? Those questions opened up a whole new avenue of game design and other problems to address. It was making the project WAY too big.

Also this issue led to AI problems. What do the aliens do? Do they follow the player inside and outside of the house? The ones at windows - do they leave the windows and follow the player? What happens when the player returns to the house? Could the player use leaving the house as a means to line up the aliens if they follow him and shoot them like fish in a barrel? What if the aliens inside the house didn't follow the player? Couldn't the player just go around to the windows and blast the aliens again like fish in a barrel? How do the aliens on one side of the house move around to the other side if the player leaves? What happens when the player reenters the house?

The simple act of leaving and returning to the house, added a whole series of items to address.

2. How do the aliens climb into the house? The original farm house was designed on uneven terrain so there were different ground heights outside of the windows. There was also an upstairs porch. Our original idea, was to have the aliens jump into the house through the windows. This would eliminate trying to adjust their heights on a standard "climb in the window" animation sequence. We also wanted to have the aliens jump up to the upstairs porch. We were messing around with some physics functions and applying them to the jumping. The alien jumped fine, it came down to a matter of incorporating the jumping with the movement engine. Since the physics and the movement engine were not related at all, it came down to trying to rewrite them so they worked together. This had problems of it's own.

The collision was based on using DBC's built in static collision boxes, and creating a custom line of site function for various things like shooting, height finding, climbing up stairs, etc. The collision system worked and was fast. However, it was built into the movement system which hadn't been compatible with the physics system (all of these systems were developed independently as snippets of code and worked well ALONE). So trying to make these work together was a whole other issue.

Ultimately, it came down to redesign - of the collision system, of the AI, of the physical environment itself.

3. The original farm house ended up being a bit small. There really wasn't anywhere to go inside the house and it could get crowded very quickly with aliens. Also, there was a performance issue that I still haven't been able to quite put my finger on, but it seems to be a result of the trees, and rocks, and added details outside. I also discovered some strange design flaws in the x files I had built that gave back incorrect polygon counts so high that DBC would complain and crash if polygon collision was used or if the object was made into a mesh for memblock use etc.

Moving Forward
So, the environment and story have been redesigned. The house is different and much larger. I shaved down the polygon count on the aliens by quite a bit which has helped performance. I'm no 3d modeler but I've been learning and getting a little, tiny bit better, and I'm doing most of the graphic work on this project. I'm pretty pleased with how things look! The player can no longer go outside but must remain indoors because the outside is just too dangerous (that's the justification for not leaving!)

No Time to Code has been handling most of the AI, movement, and shooting coding. We've recently been having discussions on collision design and method because performance seems to be the big issue. I think what we end up with might be pretty good. No Time to Code is waiting to pounce on updating some code once we have a complete workable environment. The new environment is almost done, it's actually ready to go, we both decided however, that it could use a few details. These details actually influence the collision environment and the actual shape of the interior so it would be helpful if they were in place.

We'll keep moving forward as our personal time permits, but this project is quite alive.

Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 28th Oct 2010 20:29
Latch summed up our progress very well. While the interior is being completed, I'm working on a menu system and a way to customize the controls.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. --Adam Smith
Libervurto
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Posted: 28th Oct 2010 21:18 Edited at: 28th Oct 2010 21:26
I don't know if this would cause difficulties but have you thought about having someone else in the house with you?
They cannot attack or even move, maybe the farmer is injured and hiding in the house. The farmer could tell you any information you need to know.
He could even get attacked by the aliens and cry out to you for added effect.
This would be another reason to stay and how long you can protect the farmer could be another challenge. Also you should be able to kill him yourself if you want to.

I think that's an idea that could be added once everything else is finished.The only thing that would have to be changed is that the aliens are aware of the farmer and will attack him.

Maybe I am a bit macabre but I like the idea of someone sitting there saying things like "Please don't leave me!" and "We're gonna die in here aint we..."
I think it would add a bit of atmosphere to the game.


Do oranges know what colour they are?
No Time To Code
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Posted: 31st Oct 2010 03:46
I belive we are going to have a character alive in the house when the game first starts to set up the story but then he dies.

Quote: "I think that's an idea that could be added once everything else is finished."

We still have a way to go before it's done but yes, maybe we'll revisit this idea at a later time.

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. --Adam Smith
Rapidrory
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Posted: 6th Dec 2010 20:33
*sigh* , i was just going to sujest a forum team just like this, but you guy's seem to have got there first! Good luck with your project anyway!

There is no such thing as "Too Fast!"
Latch
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Posted: 6th Dec 2010 21:49
Thanks for the well wishes!

We should be finished with the current project fairly soon. There are only 2 of us working on it right now as time permits with our real lives.

A couple of things I've learned while doing this: the easiest part of the project is the actual programming. By easiest I mean it's possible to come up with working solutions for problems through trial and error and discussion. The hardest part of the project is creating the media. If one is an artist and very capable with 3d modeling apps and 2d painting and photo editors, then I suppose the visual media isn't too big of a deal.

If you're not an artist, then it can be painstaking. If you try and use already made media there can be licensing restrictions, it may not be exactly what you want, the polygon count may be too high, the textures may be too big, etc. and etc. Then there's audio media that has the same challenges. It's not as easy to do trial and error with media. It takes a lot longer to make adjustments and keep things looking or sounding "right" so the trial and error adjustments that can be made in code, doesn't quite pan out the same in terms of effort and time as the media. Relatively speaking of course. Again, if you are a skilled artist/midi capable musician that breathes this stuff, then I imagine the reverse would be true. As it stands, the two of us working on this project are stronger on the coding side of things.

And since this project is using DarkBASIC Classic (an interpreted BASIC language), performance is always a concern - that means cutting down the size of the media as much as possible while maintaining it's look and feel.

Looking at how this project has developed, if I were involved in another project, I would start with the emotional, visual, and aural bases of the game. I would want a look, sound, feeling, environment, and story/object of the game outline fleshed out much more so before the coding. I'd want the art driving the game instead of the reverse approach of putting art to the code.

What seems to work well right now is having the code being written simultaneously with the art creation. It's a little slow because the media ideas weren't designed ahead of time (and our art skills are pretty low!) But, with any project, ideas and methods evolve. It's easy to make oversights on small things that can make the overall programming and media development harder than it has to be.

For example:

Our original house was set on an uneven terrain. No big deal, makes things look a little more natural. The windows of the house were all at the same level relative to the interior of the house. That's pretty normal in the real world too. Now, this design actually opened up a whole can of worms of programming and animation challenges.

Since the ground outside of the house was uneven, as the ground can be, there were different heights from the outside to each window of the house. We were supposed to have monsters climb in through these windows. If the heights were uneven, we had to find ways in code to make sure the monster:

a) could get in
b) climbed in in a believable manner
c) possibly had multiple animations for different height it would have to try and enter the window at
d) could break down any barricades that were in the window (since some may be slightly out of reach depending on the ground height)

We thought about having the monsters jump through the windows - but again the height relative to the ground varied and that made some interesting new challenges

The simple solution was to make sure the ground was the same height relative to the windows so a single method that didn't have to treat any exceptions could be used. This is just an example of careful planning and design of the media that can help fix unexpected problems.

Enjoy your day.
DVader
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Posted: 7th Dec 2010 15:37
Sounds like the age old story of jumping into it, before really thinking of the design, and possible problems. I do it all the time, welcome to the club! Lets face it even a well documented design could still wind up having problems, without experience of doing that sort of thing before. You wasted a little time figuring out the best method, but learned from the process at the same time so all in all still worth the time.
Good luck with this!

http://s6.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=103081
Shadow Legacy
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Posted: 8th Dec 2010 12:48
I've got a great idea for a game, thats based on one of my favourite stories, one which I have read at least 8 times, maybe you have a book the same, so why not make a game inspired by a book? that way you always have a base to work from

DBPro noob here
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Latch
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Posted: 8th Dec 2010 22:25
Quote: "I've got a great idea for a game, thats based on one of my favourite stories, one which I have read at least 8 times, maybe you have a book the same, so why not make a game inspired by a book? that way you always have a base to work from"


It's a very good idea, though with this project, we wanted a simple arcade style "shoot the monster as it comes in through the window" game based on Nazi Zombies. The game play is already laid out, we just have to adapt it to our environment. Even with this basic premise, the adapting, coding and recoding, designing and redesigning, has taken quite a bit of effort. The story isn't the problem, it's making the game behave and look (at least generally) the way we want - and it's tiny little unforeseen challenges that send us in different directions.

And based on what we've put into this project, it would be quite an undertaking to build and execute a world, and a story, based on a book.

Something else I've learned (which I might have posted before, I can't remember) is the need for an editor or series of editors for the game. Or at least, a specific methodology for building a world, setting up a collision environment, figuring out places to position objects without typing code/trial and error (position object 1,x,y,z ). The original game design document stressed NOT taking time away from building the game in the pursuit of building any editors. It seemed very logical - all effort would go into game design and not into separate editor projects.

What ended up happing is both No Time to Code and myself built editors to do specific tasks. It just made sense. Once the editors were built, it was much easier to change collision, or position objects, or test out an environment. In the end, out editors were very small scale and only did a couple of tasks, but the made those tasks easier.

If you can't get your hands on a "build all" editor or create one yourself, these are some of the types of editors I would recommend having on hand:

1. A matrix or terrain editor - If you use the built in matrix commands, something like MatEdit or MagicWorld is very useful, or build your own so you can at least manipulate the heights with point and click.

2. An editor that allows you to place, rotate, and size objects in your world by loading them and using a point and click interface.

3. A collision area/hot spot editor that allows you to "draw" or bound areas that can be set up for static collision or for hot spot triggers.

4. A way point and/or AI path editor.

5. A 3d modeler

6. A 3d animation program

7. Painting/photo editing programs. A find having a selection of these is useful. For example
*Paint - for real quick and dirty editing,
*PhotoShop - for more complicated stuff,
*CorelDraw - for in between Paint and Photoshop needs,
*A thumbnail viewer of some sort so you can see and organize all of your textures at once

8. A series of music/sound editing software. Since we haven't gotten into the depths of our sound design for the game, I can't make suggestions on what works for us (though I have a bunch of ideas from doing music in the past).

Enjoy your day.
Shadow Legacy
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Posted: 11th Dec 2010 13:47
for sound, take a while and search the internet, preferably for .wav format sounds as they are best for the real basic stuff, or due to the fact that your basically making a slightly edited remake of Nazi zombies why not just search for the sounds from the original game?

DBPro noob here
Skype = Shadow-Legacy
http://shadow-legacy-script.webs.com/
Latch
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Posted: 11th Dec 2010 22:34
Quote: "why not just search for the sounds from the original game?"

It's a good suggestion, but we're trying to avoid as many licensing issues as possible. And my comment:

Quote: "A series of music/sound editing software. Since we haven't gotten into the depths of our sound design for the game, I can't make suggestions on what works for us"


has more to do with overall sound production: making everything sound as if it's part of the same environment, keeping files the same bit depth, mono-stereo, and type; programming midi tracks and converting them to pcm etc. ; syncing animations with sounds ...

The sound effects will most likely come from sources on the internet as you suggest, and/or we'll adapt the sounds that come with DBC. And I don't think any of us are adverse to growling into a mic!

Enjoy your day.
Shadow Legacy
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Posted: 13th Dec 2010 14:31
lol funny, just thought I'd put my thoughts on this matter here

DBPro noob here
Skype = Shadow-Legacy
http://shadow-legacy-script.webs.com/
Latch
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Posted: 14th Dec 2010 00:56
Quote: "just thought I'd put my thoughts on this matter here"

Ideas are always welcome. Thanks

Enjoy your day.
Latch
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Posted: 15th Feb 2011 23:37
@DVader
Quote: "Sounds like the age old story of jumping into it, before really thinking of the design, and possible problems. I do it all the time, welcome to the club! Lets face it even a well documented design could still wind up having problems, without experience of doing that sort of thing before. You wasted a little time figuring out the best method, but learned from the process at the same time so all in all still worth the time.
Good luck with this!"


Thanks! Design planning is really a huge thing. And it's amazing what comes up that just wasn't thought about.


Just a quick update:

I think we can finally say the interior is done... We'll keep our fingers crossed until the next forgotten or unexpected 'thing' raises it's head.

We're adding a bunch of new animations to the enemies

The menu system is being worked on. We addressed a couple of challenges with some models in the menu system.

DESIGN NOTE:
If the environment scale is too big, sometimes objects that are behind other objects will partially show through at certain camera distances causing strange z-battles or lines in the object. If the environment scale is too small, you can never get the camera close enough to certain objects without clipping.

Enjoy your day.
Libervurto
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 19:27
How is this project going? We haven't heard anything in a while.


Everything worthwhile requires effort.
Latch
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Posted: 31st Mar 2011 22:50
It's coming along. We generally get one or two small things done every couple of weeks. However, we've decided on a bit of urgency to finish this thing up. We have lot's of code from various stages of development that if put in the proper order and cleaned up and made to work with the current design, should help move us towards completion.

No Time to Code has finished the menu system for the most part. I have finished almost all of the 3d modeling and animation stuff. If we choose to have special effects (fire, smoke, particles, etc.) then that and weapons are what's left for 3d (I think). And we need some kind of outside grounds.

Enjoy your day.
Design Runner
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Posted: 29th Apr 2011 06:00
I think you can leech some free weapons off of the fpsc community, believe it or not. Just do a search, or visit fps-files.com and after downloading, ignore the other files and just take the .x and texture. Just a random suggestion from someone browsing the forum bored.

Latch
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Posted: 3rd May 2011 00:07
Thanks for the tip!

Enjoy your day.
Libervurto
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2011 09:34
There's a new zombie game in the screen shots section, I thought it was this
How is the project going?

Latch
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2011 01:13
What I love about DBC is the simple code syntax and command set. I also appreciate that it's an interpreted language so you get instant results once you type up a program. What I don't like is that it's tied to Direct X retained mode (part of why one needs d3drm.dll) - therefore it can be slow when it comes to graphics - at least I suspect it's because of retained mode.

With that being said, it's hard to maintain a high quantity of decent quality 3d graphics without performance suffering. In order to help manage some of the speed, we've had to cut a few corners graphics-wise which meant redesigning many times over. Also, we've created some custom collision routines through a custom dll. Using our DLL, sparkys as well as the built in static collision of DBC, we have a fairly complete collision system that allows for bullet hit detection down to the individual limb, sliding collision, and height detection. Getting all this to work together was a bit of a challenge but I think we're good to go until the next bug is discovered!

At any rate, the challenge of this is fun. We've learned a lot, and I find that DBC still has a lot to offer. I'm getting a hair better at 3d graphics and texturing - though I have a lot to learn.

Enjoy your day.
Libervurto
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Posted: 25th Jun 2011 20:26
Quote: "we've had to cut a few corners graphics-wise"

That has a really good double meaning.

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