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DarkBASIC Discussion / DarkPro's - What do you think?

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No Time To Code
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Posted: 20th Oct 2009 06:10
Quote: "Every area would be a zone. When a player and an enemy tracking to the player are in the same zone, it is considered open and the tracking would be line of sight. If the player is in a hallway or another room, an enemy outside of the zone has to path find to the entrance of the room or hallway. So each enemy and each zone would have to be flexibl to adjust to it's current zone, player, enemy status."


I've got this part done. I've attched Latch's overhead map with zones listed in this post and the dba in the next post. The program will start with birdseye view and in this view you can move the player using the arrow keys. Hit spacebar to start the pathfinding and after that the enemies will continue to pathfind to a defined node depending on which zone the player enters. This should work fine for square or rectangular rooms. Where it's going to be a problem is areas like zone 3 (stairs in the middle)and 4 (L shaped). In these areas the enemies and player could be in the same zone but still not be able to 'see' or move in a straight line to the player.

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No Time To Code
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Posted: 20th Oct 2009 06:11
Here is the code...

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Latch
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Posted: 20th Oct 2009 08:32
Looks pretty good. The zone definitions may have to change because there are several doors or openings to the same areas and it doesn't make sense for all enemies to crowd to an opening that is no where near them. Every rectangular space can be a zone, including the area at the base of the stairs that has open roomes on either side. In stead of designing such large zones of obscures shapes, make each zone a square area or rectangle.

If the player and enemy are not in the same zone, the enemy should track to the nearest entrance to that zone from where it is. Once in the zone, it's just point and move.

Enjoy your day.
TheComet
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Posted: 20th Oct 2009 09:34
And, just for safety reasons, you should expect that something weird might happen and an enemy is not anywhere near any zones. If so, you can probably deactivate the enemy and remove it. (Just return a -1 if there is an error from the function, and the rest of the program will take care of it.)

TheComet


Make the paths of your enemies easier with WaypointPro!
No Time To Code
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Posted: 24th Oct 2009 03:58
Quote: "The zone definitions may have to change because there are several doors or openings to the same areas and it doesn't make sense for all enemies to crowd to an opening that is no where near them."

Quote: "If the player and enemy are not in the same zone, the enemy should track to the nearest entrance to that zone from where it is. Once in the zone, it's just point and move."

@Latch
I've defined 7 zones in the manner you suggested. Each zone has from 1 to 6 "entry nodes". The attached code will move each enemy to the "entry node" closet to them. To see the best example, the player starts in zone 7. Move to zone 1 which is the room to the right and hit SPACEBAR. After that they will continue to pathfind to the nearest "entry node" as you move the player from room to room.

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Dark Dragon
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Posted: 24th Oct 2009 04:52
Quote: "Do you want to help Obese87 and I with pathfinding or tackle some other element of AI? "

Any thing you need.

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Latch
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Posted: 24th Oct 2009 15:34
@demons breath
Quote: "I still think the outside part of the game sounds interesting"

I agree. We'll keep heading down this road and stop if it becomes undoable.

@DDragon
Digger412 is taking a shot at creating a few models here and there. Maybe you can do the same or see if you can work with some of the models he's already provided.

@No Time to Code
I haven't looked at your new code yet. I'm having to deal with stuff in the real world these days and haven't had a chance to play much with DBC. Though I have had time to work on the house model a bit. It's finished for most intents and purposes. I've added another door just to make life more difficult for you.

I'll post a screen of the interior - textured and light mapped. This is part of the downstairs.

Enjoy your day.

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No Time To Code
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Posted: 24th Oct 2009 17:55
Looking good Latch, nice and creepy

Quote: "I've added another door just to make life more difficult for you."

Not a problem. When the model is finished I will go through and set up all the nodes.
Latch
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 00:12
Another screeny attached. This is the upstairs (attic?). Though I'm pleased with how this is looking, I think the amount of textures and tiling and the size of the textures themselves, is destroying the frame rate. It's disappointing because I have the model the way I like it! Oh well, I'll see what I can do about the textures. But anyway, here's the shadowy upstairs for now:

Enjoy your day.

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No Time To Code
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 00:48
Thats great, the light mapping really adds to the atmosphere!

I'm going to compile my pathfinding dba with your terrain model and see what kind of framerate I get on my wife's PC. I'd really like to be working with your model instead of the matrix. I hope to get a new PC after the holidays so I can code on a computer made in the 21st century.
Libervurto
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 01:12
@Latch
Nice work, that looks great!

I've been working on the music, I decided to scrap the old version I had because it was too "Halloween" slasher film style. I've now got a very sinister mystical sounding track (If ET was a horror film this would be the music ) but I can't find the damn recording thingy-majig to upload it. I've still got to flesh it out with more instruments.
The tune is a pretty haunting one so hopefully I can pull off a professional composition to do it justice.
I'll try and get a few versions up in the next few days.

What music are we going to need? What I've written could be the main theme but it's too slow for action.
Here's what I think we need...
* Main theme: title screen, menus.
* Alternate theme: pause, game over, credits ().
* Action: when close to monsters.

I could separate my music into individual tracks if needed, so we could fade in/out instruments seemlessly as required (maybe depending on the action).

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demons breath
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 04:53 Edited at: 25th Oct 2009 04:54
OBese - what's the problem? What file format do you have, and what are you trying to convert it to?

EDIT: And you should probably have a track which you have when there aren't monsters near but which is still in-game (i.e. between waves and the like - could be the same as the menu I suppose though)

"A West Texas girl, just like me"
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Libervurto
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 06:20
@Demons Breath
It's not in a format yet it's still on my keyboard That's what I mean.
I've got an mp3 player that can record off a line-in but I can't find it.
If worst comes to worst I'll buy a midi cable and work out how to get it straight onto the PC.

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TDK
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 11:58
A MIDI cable won't help. You need a cable from the headphone socket of your keyboard to the line-in on your sound card.

You can then use Windows Sound Recorder (if you have nothing else).

TDK

demons breath
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 14:11
I personally use an Edirol FA-66 into Cubase which works quite well, but is a little pricey obviously if you only really want to use it for this song. Fruity Loops is good as well, but with the FL Studio demo you can't save works in progress, only completed songs, so again unless you're willing to splash out you will be able to save and export the actual wav/mp3 but you won't be able to reopen past projects and continue with them/amend them. You could always find someone who can record it for you, if you score it out and send them the music. Could also be good to get someone else's take on the arrangement of the idea, so it ended up with them also contributing. Obviously it would still be your baby, and it would depend on who you could find to work with who's reliable and good.

"A West Texas girl, just like me"
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Digger412
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 15:10
Audacity is a free music/sound editing program. If you record it in FL, you could tinker with it in Audacity. I have it on my computer (my teacher for Desktop Publishing wanted me to get acquainted with it), but I don't really know how well it would work.
Latch
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 15:31
@No Time to Code
I ran your code. It works! Could you explain in detail how the code is functioning? It would be good if we could work on some optimizations of your code and in which we also work out the general movement engine for the game. Explain using references to functions, subroutines, and line numbers. Do you mind?

Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 21:31
No problem. This is a crazy week for me but I'll try to get it posted by the end of the weekend.
Latch
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Posted: 30th Oct 2009 05:35
Let's take a quick role call to see who is still involved and what they are doing. I'm keeping my actual coding down to a minimum to leave room for others to contribute. At this stage I'll just help with ideas and optimization if possible. That'll also depend on who is still involved.

Latch:
A. working on the level environment
* house - pretty much finalized
* terrain - trying to find a way to texture it so it looks decent and not pixelated up close
* other structure - haven't started
* enemies - haven't progressed - still working on overall environment

B. Planning out movement - waiting to optimize interior enemy to player tracking with No Time to Code

C. testing ideas for collision using only DBC commands - math and or collision

Enjoy your day.
Libervurto
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Posted: 30th Oct 2009 05:42
I'm still involved but I haven't done anything with the physics yet. I keep putting it off because I don't really know what I'm doing.
Doing any coding would be a waste of time at the moment, I need to learn more before I can make a start. Or am I thinking too much and should just get on with it?

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Latch
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Posted: 30th Oct 2009 06:13
We don't need any real hard core physics, or even real physics for that matter. Just forces making things move, friction slowing things down, and forces making things turn. Off the top of my head (this hasn't been tested), we could start off with a force applied on just the X Z plane. How much X and how much Z determine the direction the object would move and how it might spin on the y axis.

For example, if we have a start point at (0,0,0) and an end point of (100,0,20) , with a little subtraction we can see that the x distance is farther than the z distance. We could find a percentage of the total distance that each axis represents and multiply those values times the force applied to the object at position 100,0,20. I'm making this up as I go along so let me type up some code for the idea:



I haven't tested this but I think it would make an object spin towards the right based on a force coming from the south west (i'll have to test it later!) The idea is just to get enemies to maybe go backwards when they are killed or for a crate or barrell to fall an tumble or move in the opposite direction from where a force came from. You can go with real physics if you want, or you can fake it just to get the behavior. It's up to you. But if you feel you can't do it (basic physics) then suggest something you feel you can do.

Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 31st Oct 2009 04:08
@Latch
Quote: "Could you explain in detail how the code is functioning?"

Is this what you where looking for?

I've attached the code again because the line numbers have changed from the last code I posted.

@Obese87
Quote: "I'm still involved but I haven't done anything with the physics yet. I keep putting it off because I don't really know what I'm doing."


It looks like you're starting another Darknoobs project (MarioBros). Are you going to be able to contribute to this project? If so, I agree with Latch, look over the design document and pick something you feel you can do.

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Latch
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Posted: 31st Oct 2009 04:49
Quote: "Is this what you where looking for?"

I'll look it over and post any questions I have. Does A* have to find the complete path, start to end before it applies movement, or are there final decisions made along the path? What I'm trying to think is how to combine finding the path and positioning the enemy simultaneously. Sort of, finding the path one step at a time and moving. If path finding and path movement can be combined into 1 function, it eliminates multiple function calls which add up in terms of time.

Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 31st Oct 2009 05:05 Edited at: 31st Oct 2009 15:44
To my knowledge it has to find the complete path, start to end.
[edit]

Actually, right now the paths for all enemies are calculated each time the function is called. I'm sure it should be easy to only pathfind for one enemy each call.
Libervurto
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Posted: 31st Oct 2009 06:28
@NTTC
Mario Bros should be finished before the new year. I will only really be busy when it comes to merging all the code together.
I like having more than one project on the go, it keeps my interest in coding up. Hopefully it will work out and I will still be able to work on this project.

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Latch
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 11:28
@No Time to Code
Quote: "Actually, right now the paths for all enemies are calculated each time the function is called. I'm sure it should be easy to only pathfind for one enemy each call. "


All the paths should be calculated at once in one function call. Multiple calls to a function take more time. The path finding itself is rather quick. Do a couple of tests path finding for 20 to 50 objects and see what the time is.

At any rate, there hasn't been a huge response from role call or in general so it might be up to us to finish. I'm still in, and it seems like Obese87 is still in. I'v been thinking about the overall 'physical world' . I mean how everything moves, what physics they are effected by and so on.

@Obese87
I'm a little worried that your attentions are divded. If you can help, do so when you can. I'm actually gonna expand on the physics demo I posted a couple of posts up (I actually like it!) and see if I can implement it into a small physics library. I may grab some of the code from the example I posted of the bouncing cube as well. The delay in this on my part, is figuring out the collision system. I'm starting to think about using static collision boxes for the environment (house) so I can get the return values of collision in terms of coordinates. But we'll see. So, until that is finanlized, I probably won't work on the physics so continue to do so if you can.

Enjoy your day.
Libervurto
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 11:45
@latch
ok, I have a friend with a maths degree who says he'll help me out
I've been apprehensive because I know there are other people who could do this better than me. I have the day off so I'll be coding.
What is the ground in the game? Is it a matrix or an object?

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Latch
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 14:24 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2009 14:29
Quote: "I've been apprehensive because I know there are other people who could do this better than me"

You don't have to do it Obese if you feel uncomfortable. Just indicate something you'd like to do. And the ground will be an object. Unless, someone can come up with a very well textured matrix that doesn't show the seams between tiles. That would save some collision detection code by just using get ground height.

@All
In case no one has read the newsletter, DBPro is offered as a fully functional free version with some licensing limitations and adds in the editor. So if you are abandoning ship for DBPro, please say so.

Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 18:08
Quote: "At any rate, there hasn't been a huge response from role call or in general so it might be up to us to finish. I'm still in, and it seems like Obese87 is still in."

I'm still in. Like I said at the start, I'm no pro but I'll try to do whatever I can.

Quote: "Do a couple of tests path finding for 20 to 50 objects and see what the time is."

Will do. I might take a stab at waypoints next.

Quote: "In case no one has read the newsletter, DBPro is offered as a fully functional free version with some licensing limitations and adds in the editor. "

That's good to know. I might download but I'm not ready to move on to DBP quite yet.
Libervurto
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 21:00
Wait, DBP is free now? The whole program?
Does the licensing thing mean you have to buy a license from TGC if you want to go commercial?
Seems fair in my eyes, they give us the tools to learn and then we pay them when we make money from it.
Does this mean TGC are moving on to something else?
I should probably READ the newletter

"With game, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
No Time To Code
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 23:13
I was reading this thread today. In it there is a lot of discussion about why TGC did it.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=160234&b=1
Digger412
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 03:26
I'll knock up a terrain model, I have 3D World Studio and Texture Maker, shouldn't be too hard...does it need to be hilly? Flat? Bowl-like? What should the terrain look like? Grassy? Interspersed dirt paths?
No Time To Code
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 03:57 Edited at: 4th Nov 2009 03:58
Quote: "Unless, someone can come up with a very well textured matrix that doesn't show the seams between tiles. That would save some collision detection code by just using get ground height"

@Digger412
I think Latch's challange was to create seamless terrain using a matrix. He already provided a model of terrain.

@All
The following code is a speed test of the A* function. No media required. It starts all enemies in the top left corner of the house and the goal is the bottome right corner of the house. I get about .016 sec for 20 enemies and .063 sec for 50 enemies. My PC is pretty old so I'm curious what other get.

Latch
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 04:34 Edited at: 4th Nov 2009 04:38
@Digger412
What No Time to Code said

@No Time to Code
There's no syncronization timing set up (no syncing) in your example. So with no sync I get:

20 enm .423
50 enm 1.005

With syncing

20 enm .006
50 enm .015

This seems good. Not accounting for overhead generated by the display (polygons, textures, lighting, fog, etc.) we should be able to run the game with at least 20 enemies path finding per loop. And if I read your post correctly, this is the maximum path finding distance in the house? If so, then we actually have more room to play with in terms of time because some paths will be shorter than others.

Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 05:52
Quote: "There's no syncronization timing set up (no syncing) in your example"

Not sure what you mean Latch. Do you mean I'm not using the SYNC command. If so, I didn't think I had to because I wasn't moving any objects. When I do use a SYNC command I get the same results.

Quote: "And if I read your post correctly, this is the maximum path finding distance in the house?"

Yes, I choose points on opposite ends of the house.
Latch
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 08:46
Quote: "Not sure what you mean Latch. Do you mean I'm not using the SYNC command. If so, I didn't think I had to because I wasn't moving any objects. When I do use a SYNC command I get the same results."

Yes, using the SYNC command. It's very odd that you would get the same results with and without syncing. Loop iterations are controlled by the sync rate.

Run this version of your code and tell me if it is any different:



Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 4th Nov 2009 13:57
Quote: "It's very odd that you would get the same results with and without syncing. "

Duh, I got the same results because I just put SYNC on the loop without putting SYNC ON before the main loop.

Now I get:
20 enm 0
50 enm .016

I don't know why it shows 0. Seems like it's rounding off......
Digger412
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Posted: 5th Nov 2009 03:37
@ Latch and NTTC - Darn..I may still try it for fun, though...May come out with some good textures, idk.
Latch
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Posted: 5th Nov 2009 04:47
@Digger412
Give it a go! It may be just what we need. Part of the key is to have a good looking ground up close and no seams between the grid or square shaped tiling. I can create a good blended texture from multiple textures but it doesn't look so good up close.

The 3d world dimensions are 4000 x 4000 . Try and keep the grid small, maybe 10 x 10 or 20 x 20 tiles max . We need a soddy, grassy kind of environment. The terrain should be generally flat but not necessarily even. Keep the maximum height between the peaks and valleys to about 60 units - and/or make sure there is a more flatish area for the structures in a 600 x 600 central area of the terrain. Use the house model to get a decent height for that area. The new house model (which i haven't posted yet) has an 80 unit high base below the first floor (a foundation) so that the terrain can be a little uneven and the house can still be placed without gaps below it.

Enjoy your day.
Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Nov 2009 07:44
Quote: "How about an old farm?"


I think Animal Farm could make for a fun game.

Latch
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Posted: 5th Nov 2009 08:58
Beasts of England, Beasts of Ireland, Beasts of every land and clime...

Enjoy your day.
Latch
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Posted: 5th Nov 2009 19:34
@all
Just so you know I'm not sitting idle... I've updated some of the texturing and redesigned the house a bit with less polygons. It still eats more power than I would like and I can't quite pin down the problem. It really depends on which way the camera is facing. It might be because the ceiling texture is tiled quite a bit and if there is a lot of ceiling in view, then there is a lot of texture rendering. Anyway, just to test it, I added 60 spheres to the scene and the FPS didn't really change so I'll leave it as is (wihout the extra spheres).

I've also been working on a collision mapping library. Basically, it allows you to drop the library into any DBC source that builds/uses a 3d environment. You call the mapper from inside the source and it takes over. It divides the screen up into 4 working windows with different camera views to allow detailed control. I've tried dropping it into the tentative farm environment and it seems to be working. There's much more to do to it, and it's probably about 1 to 2 weeks more work with the time I'm allotted. But anyway, here's a screeny of it being used with the farm (still in it's very early stages) to keep hope alive:

Enjoy your day.

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No Time To Code
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Posted: 5th Nov 2009 23:46
@Latch
The house is looking good. What exactly is a collision mapper?
Latch
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 02:31
Quote: "What exactly is a collision mapper?"

It's my own term (I guess) meaning I can draw where I want there to be collision or impassable areas in the 3d world. I'm hoping we can make this game only with DBC commands and not use external DLLs. Part of that is managing collision.

Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 04:30
Sounds good, I'm looking forward to seeing it in action.
Caleb1994
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 07:41
Just wondering latch, are you doing the 'collision mapping' by using a top-down view and drawing in 2d and save the x and y as scaled x and z positions? Just sounded interesting and i was just wondering

New Site! Check it out \/
Latch
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 09:42
Quote: "Just wondering latch, are you doing the 'collision mapping' by using a top-down view and drawing in 2d and save the x and y as scaled x and z positions? "

One of my original thoughts was to do that, but I figured it could be done in 3d in the actual environment I want to map.

It's all in 3d and I use multiple views simultaneously so I can see and reference the entire 3d area effected at once. If you look at the screeny I attached in the post above, you'll see the quad split view that I'll use. I was thinking of adding additional views by selection. Your right-click popup menu would come in real handy for adding options because I don't want the screen cluttered with any superfluous visuals (like persistent menus or buttons).

Enjoy your day.
Libervurto
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Posted: 6th Nov 2009 14:56
I am officially dropping the physics (no pun intended), I've started it three times now and just hit a brick wall (no pun intended again ) after I've set things up. I could spend a few days working it out but I get that coder's sense that there's some maths I'm missing that would make the job a whole lot simpler. I'm going to do a bit of experimenting and when I get a good grasp of it, providing no one else has stepped in I'll take up the task again. I'm stepping down to let someone step in if they want to.
I'll start work on the menus, I can do menus

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
Caleb1994
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Location: The Internet you idiot!
Posted: 6th Nov 2009 20:17
Oh ok i see what your doing i think! lol I know what you mean about the 'clutter' of buttons and stuff.


If you feel that the functions(or maybe subroutines) will suit your needs go ahead and use them! lol No biggy. I put them up on here for someone to use/learn from anyway!

New Site! Check it out \/
Libervurto
17
Years of Service
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Joined: 30th Jun 2006
Location: On Toast
Posted: 7th Nov 2009 12:53
I think you posted on the wrong thread caleb

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright

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