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Geek Culture / Modern Warfare 2 boycott

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 09:17
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I'm assuming a bunch of people have already heard about this?

Basically, Infinity Ward have decided that there will be no dedicated servers for the pc edition of Modern Warfare 2, possibly the most anticipated game of this year. A LOT of PC gamers have boycotted the game because of this and I am scared that the PC playerbase will be very small and consist of n00bs.

Sign the petition here if you have a moment: http://www.petitiononline.com/dedis4mw/


For more info check this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy1-8efNdpQ
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Van B
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 09:50
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Maybe they'll just leave out the PC next time...

Seriously, the PC will be a tiny wedge of the pie when it comes to game sales of MW2, the 360 and PS3 will probably sell 5 times as much, for about 1/3rd more. I don't think it's a good idea to rattle the nest like that . What a ridiculous thing to boycott for anyway, they are afraid that it'll have a small user base of noobs, so they won't buy it. It's XBL that makes the difference, you see 360 users have to pay to play online, we pay for servers to be running for the games we already bought for £10 more than the PC version - so why on earth should the PC market get off scot free when it comes to servers?

I can see CoD going 360 centric before long, it's where the money is, and financial survival is more important than annoying a few thousand PC gamers.

Operation Flashpoint 2 is pretty good though, I don't play it online yet because I'd rather do the campaign and get used to it first. Pretty tricky, and tactical, but addictive at the same time. So if you must boycott MW2, get OF2 until you give in and buy MW2 anyway.


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BiggAdd
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 09:52 Edited at: 26th Oct 2009 10:00
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I don't see how distributing a game through steam immediately stops modding.

Also how do people know this is a bad step? For me personally I would probably love it.
Most games (on a console especially) always "prefer" an American Host, this means for the most part, British gameplay is usually incredibly poor online. (I know Gears of War 2 is).

If this system finds servers locally, gameplay could be a lot smoother for everyone.

[EDIT] And I have to agree with Van B, it sounds like PC Gamers have been getting it easy for too long. Why should console gamers pay for hosting and DLC, when PC Gamers get it for free. [/EDIT]

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 10:11
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I don't personally have a problem with it but it just worries me that most of the PC community is boycotting this game. I'm not, as I am freaking PUMPED for the game, but I'm just worried that the amount of people online will not be enough. Just take a look at the IW forums, the amount of people cancelling their preorders is just... geez. I'd say about 80%.

And yeah, Biggadd, I have to agree, I would prefer the matchmaking thing. It's annoying having to find a server that ain't full and isn't in some spastic place all the way in freaking Madagascar or whatever

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 10:50
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I dont like this new trend of "matchmaking", its hard to find fun people to play with. If a clan hosts a server I know that the same people will come and play every now and then, but with "matchmaking" you never know.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 11:34 Edited at: 26th Oct 2009 11:37
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Bleh, matchmaking. The DS's matchmaking is a disaster. I'd say you spend at least three times as much time waiting for a game than you do playing it. And if you dislike who you end up playing against, you are screwed because the matchmaker will put you against the same people. Over. And over. And over again. With dedicated servers, you tick the empty and full filters, sort by ping and there ya go. You don't like where that got you, move one down the list.

No delays, full control. Two huge advantages with no disadvantage. What if I want to play against a specific friend?

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 11:45
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The matchmaking in MW2 PC will be identical to consoles, as far as I can gather. So you'll have a friends list.

One retarded thing is that they are relying on VAC to get rid of hackers. WTF? I mean, VAC is not gonna help it at all. It's worse than punkbuster.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 11:49
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I can't see how any anti-cheat mechanism would ever work. You don't have direct access to the client's hard drive, you can't check their exe and data. You can maybe ask for checksums, but nothing is stopping a modified cheat detector always sending out the right checksums.

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bond1
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 11:50
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Quote: "Maybe they'll just leave out the PC next time...

Seriously, the PC will be a tiny wedge of the pie when it comes to game sales of MW2, the 360 and PS3 will probably sell 5 times as much, for about 1/3rd more. "


Yeah man, PC releases are getting harder and harder to justify nowadays, with so much money to be made on consoles. Not that there won't be any interest in the PC version - there just won't be many people interested in actually buying it. And everyone knows what I mean - so sad.

I'm grateful for anything that still gets a PC release - I've given up on waiting for Condemned 2.

----------------------------------------
"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 12:00
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Quote: "there just won't be many people interested in actually buying it."


Oh, there will be. Just not the hardcore CoD players I'm used to playing against. You know, casual gamers. Although that means that I can kill them easier

But there will definately be a bunch of sales on the PC front. This is MW2, dude! MW2! Whoa! No bloody way! Whoa! MW2! Understand?

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prasoc
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 12:04
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Im going to buy both the 360 and PC versions. IDC about dedicated servers, you have hosts in cod4 on the 360 (but.. no host migration which they have in mw2), so nothing changed really for me


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 12:37
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What's wrong with matchmaking? I've never had a problem connecting. Left4Dead as an example, when I start the game up, I still get a game immediately - matchmaking in Halo 3 takes a bit longer, but it never causes a problem, nor am I held up by it.

I suppose they could just not release a PC version? There's so much unattractive about the PC market, like the numerous hardware configurations you've got to consider, hence a PC game won't be compatible with EVERY system within specifications, particularly console ports. Add that it's a lot more pirateable on the PC. I suppose it means now PC users are getting more and more screwed, but Matchmaking? I think that's small beans to get worked up over.

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Van B
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 14:31
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Quote: "But there will definately be a bunch of sales on the PC front. This is MW2, dude! MW2! Whoa! No bloody way! Whoa! MW2! Understand? "


No that was completely over my head.

MW2 is huge, people will be BUYING it on 360 left and right, and people will be pirating it on PC left and right - which leaves the PC version with a much smaller proportion of sales. We have to assume that these pirate copies won't be used in multiplayer mode - that would be crazy if that was allowed. So really you have to make the distinction that the 360 version will be far bigger than the PC version, commercially. People willing to spend the money to buy games like MW2 deserve the best features, multiplayer, updates, DLC... if PC gamers cant scrape £30 to buy such a massive and epic game, then they can't expect support, or money spent on servers. Someone has to pay for this stuff, and for too long it's been 360 users footing everyones bill. I feel sorry for the genuine PC gamers out there who support the franchise, sadly there's just too few of them.

Now I don't want to get all preachy about piracy, but the 'Hollywood' PC game market is on a slippery slope - PC gamers need to look at piracy as a dirty and harmful thing - which is exactly what prolonged the Amiga's lifespan - people actively discouraging piracy before it destroyed their chances of getting new games. I really think it's a case of spending £30 now or spending £200 next time on a 360, that's assuming they want to play the next CoD games.


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dark coder
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 16:14
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Quote: "It's XBL that makes the difference, you see 360 users have to pay to play online, we pay for servers to be running for the games we already bought for £10 more than the PC version - so why on earth should the PC market get off scot free when it comes to servers?"


What are you on about? The majority of servers in likely every online FPS(COD1/2/3/4, CSS, BF2, etc) from what I've seen are hosted by gaming communities. The official servers are usually in the distinct minority, and they are typically only there for testing purposes and are seldom visited by moderators during pub hours and usually lack any mods or general customization; so from what I've seen, they aren't used all that often, other than at the launch of a game where 3rd party server adoption is low.

The video linked to in the OP is very good and clearly points out the flaws in their statements, and includes one obvious rationale for them to do this they failed to mention(piracy).

I haven't played much of COD4 online, beyond getting to the highest level, and was looking forward to MW2 but this is a very bad move and will affect my decision on if, or when I buy it. The majority of the people for this, I imagine, are from a console background and don't see the obvious benefits to the users that dedicated servers bring. Modifications has to be the largest one of them all, while it's obviously possible to allow mods with matchmaking, it's going to be no where near the same as you either providing or joining a server that has the exact mods you like.

I sometimes fire up CSS to play on my favourite servers that run all kinds of crazy mods, I'm sure with matchmaking I could host a game to run with these but then others would have to pretty much request to join a game using the same mods which makes it very hard to create matches. The only solution to this would be to list all games that are being created, but this is no different from you seeing a server list of listen servers, thus omitting dedicated servers makes no sense and only introduces disadvantages.

Thus, this decision is clearly a poor response to piracy, as well as a method to limit or eliminate mods thus allowing DLC to become viable. Yet dedicated servers can co-exist with matchmaking, and mods can co-exist with DLC(Battlefield 1942/2/2142(well, expansions), Killing Floor all did it), so it doesn't really make any sense, and I wouldn't be surprised if they lost a lot of sales due to this.

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Jeku
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 16:19
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The problem I have with the game is they raised the price by $10 for every SKU. The PC game is $60 right out of the gate--- and this is just to pre-order it on Steam. What a laugh! The 360 and PS3 versions will be $70! Argh, I hate Activision.


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David R
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 16:47 Edited at: 26th Oct 2009 17:05
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COD:MW is the most overrated/overhyped game ever. The original was an extremely solid game, I'll give it that - but it's the standard that every game should be living up to. The only reason it's received so well is that everything else we've been playing sucks so bad. MW should be the bar / minimum. Not the best. And presumably MW2 will just be more of the same. Yawn.

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Van B
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 17:19
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So can I ask, out of all the PC gamers here, how many are in a clan?, how many have rented a server?, and how many just want to play online?

That video forgets to make clear just how tricky it can be for a novice to setup a server, setup their router, setup any of that stuff. Apparently you just use google. Give me a break! - that guys POV is so damn narrow.

So I wonder what the percentage difference is between:

A) Want to be in a clan, and select from dozens of servers.
B) Just want to play, stick me in a game with appropriate level players.

Personally, and this will be against the grain - I'd rather have matchmaking. Dedicated servers are great if you are in a clan, or you own your own server, or you want to use mods. I think this accounts for a smaller percentage of PC gamers than people are assuming.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 17:51
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I'm on your side there VanB - I'd probably fit into category B - there's so few people I know that I'd play against online, so why would I want a clan? When I've looked through the list of servers for example, I'm not looking for specific servers, I'm just looking for a game to play and depending on the game I might find a group is password protected or kick you straight out. The worst I found was Counter Strike, I think I've only got 1 match out of that thing, I've not found one good server and when I do, I find I have to download some media or a map that takes too long (that's probably the fault of CS)

I enjoy playing Left4Dead, because I can turn it on, hit 'find game' and a few seconds later I'm playing the game.


Would it be possible for a game company to implement both features? Would that be viable? It'd accommodate most people I think.

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KeithC
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 18:03
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I'm in a COD 1 Clan:

http://www.sgcforum.com/forums/index.php

I'm not sure that PC Gamers have it easier than console players. PC Gamers need to make sure they have the latest drivers, and appropriate card, etc. Console gamers just plug it in and go (no worries about incompatibilities).

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 18:15
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It's one of the reasons I'm playing more and more console games.

I hate games that don't run properly, it's usually the guilt of console ports, so the only PC games I'm playing now are PC exclusive.

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Van B
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 19:16
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That's the thing, if I'm buying an online centric game then I get it on the 360 - because of my recent experiences with PC games. I have actually bought games on the 360 after buying the PC version (Unreal3 for instance) because the online gameplay is just more fun.

The people who are set against this, are the very people who make playing PC games online a miserable experience for me. On the 360 you can even go and ask people to help you learn - even had a few people help me test out some Farcry2 maps. XBL is a gaming community and it's simply more fun to be part of than these single PC games. If more PC games had ranked matchmaking, then I'd be more inclined to consider them. That's not to say it should replace dedicated servers for those that want them though.


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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 20:18 Edited at: 26th Oct 2009 20:18
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Quote: "COD:MW is the most overrated/overhyped game ever. The original was an extremely solid game, I'll give it that - but it's the standard that every game should be living up to. The only reason it's received so well is that everything else we've been playing sucks so bad. MW should be the bar / minimum. Not the best. And presumably MW2 will just be more of the same. Yawn."


David R do you have anything good to say about anything?

Of course one game has to be the best of it's kind.

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David R
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 20:46 Edited at: 26th Oct 2009 20:47
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Quote: "Of course one game has to be the best of it's kind."


That's precisely my point - it's a game about shooting people. This is 2009. It [MW1] is a solid game, and it's balanced beautifully (I love it over LAN) but does nobody else find it odd that irrespective of how solid it is, a game that is using the most played-out concept ever is so revered to the point where a sequel is hyping off of the hype-o-meter?

I just don't understand why MW2 is such a massive deal - it's another game about shooting people. It'll probably be another very solid well designed game, but it just seems kind of... sad.

Quote: "David R do you have anything good to say about anything?"


Well, we're going for profound personal open-ended questions, so here's mine: Do you ever think and reconsider your own opinion on something rather than just blindly following the crowd?

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 23:13
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I hate that lame argument. Because a lot of people think its a good game and enjoyed it, somehow you're smarter than everyone else by disagreeing and everyone else is a stupid sheep.

MW was one of the best shooting games, people thouroughly enjoyed it, including me and I am not a fan of FPS, hence excitement for MW2.

The MW game was done better than others of it's irk and MW2 looks set to be even better. The fact that it is the leader in it's genre is why it's being looked forward to. The games industry is only progressing so fast, and MW2 is pretty much at the knifes edge of the genre as far as I'm concenred. You can hardly complain because it isn't up to your lofty expectations - it is AS GOOD as a shooting game can be in 2009. What more does it need to do?

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Jeku
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 23:19
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There are always people who don't give something enough credit simply because everyone else does

COD:MW was and still is a groundbreaking game. For someone to say that every other FPS has to be just as good as a minimum is living in a dream world where every company has 200 man development teams and unlimited funding. Yes it should be a benchmark, but not the only one we use to compare. Not every team has the luxury of Activision paying its bills


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David R
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 00:39 Edited at: 27th Oct 2009 00:42
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Quote: "I hate that lame argument. Because a lot of people think its a good game and enjoyed it, somehow you're smarter than everyone else by disagreeing and everyone else is a stupid sheep."


If that's in reference to my question to you, then I'd like to point out that it was nothing to do with MW2/the topic at hand etc. It's a retaliation for your initial "Do you have anything good to say?" - because quite simply that kind of personal 'low shot' question is annoying - it's a "I disagree with you but I can't be bothered to fulfil my disagreement with a proper question". So I gave you same kind of thing back in return. They're unanswerable too, which is why they suck, and they bring coherent arguments down to immature personal bleh-ness

Quote: " The MW game was done better than others of it's irk and MW2 looks set to be even better. The fact that it is the leader in it's genre is why it's being looked forward to. The games industry is only progressing so fast, and MW2 is pretty much at the knifes edge of the genre as far as I'm concenred. You can hardly complain because it isn't up to your lofty expectations - it is AS GOOD as a shooting game can be in 2009. What more does it need to do?
"


Yes, it's good. I'll rephrase what I mean: It's a good, solid game. But, at the end of the day - irrespective of how well balanced or how brilliant the storyline was - it was a game where you shoot people with guns. MW2 will no doubt be as brilliantly immersive and polished - but it's the same thing underneath. Is that really what you're after game wise? Just more of the same ad infinitum?

It's almost as if by polishing up the mundane elements to a mirror shine (which they did in MW1 and it's brilliant) they've simply got a 'winning-formula' to construct and reconstruct the same game again and again in a different guise.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 00:57
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You can't reinvent the wheel!

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Thraxas
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 01:07
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Quote: "they've simply got a 'winning-formula' to construct and reconstruct the same game again and again in a different guise."


That's where the money is. I love gaming but if you want original ideas and concepts then you have to look at the indie game scene. Big companies are going to push out the same stuff over and over and over and over with more tweaks because they know it will make money.

I still enjoy playing that same game over and over and over personally.

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 02:22
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Quote: "What's wrong with matchmaking?"


Exactly, all I really care about personally is how big the playerbase will be. I honestly don't care if it consists of noobs. I just don't want to have to wait ages to find a match with more than 8 people and endup with having only 3.

Quote: "Yes, it's good. I'll rephrase what I mean: It's a good, solid game. But, at the end of the day - irrespective of how well balanced or how brilliant the storyline was - it was a game where you shoot people with guns. MW2 will no doubt be as brilliantly immersive and polished - but it's the same thing underneath. Is that really what you're after game wise?"


So? I don't care if it's the same, so long as it's good with some more good stuff.

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t10dimensional
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 02:34 Edited at: 27th Oct 2009 02:35
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Quote: " but it's the same thing underneath. Is that really what you're after game wise?""


They started from scratch on MW2. They did'nt just add to COD4, they completly remade it.

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dark coder
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 13:42
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Quote: "That video forgets to make clear just how tricky it can be for a novice to setup a server, setup their router, setup any of that stuff. Apparently you just use google. Give me a break! - that guys POV is so damn narrow."


No it isn't, he clearly states that to host a dedicated server you'd want a business connection and not your typical residential one. As such, very few people host serious servers from their home, it's usually far simpler to use a game server provider as he's mentioned.


Quote: "Dedicated servers are great if you are in a clan, or you own your own server, or you want to use mods."


So why remove this ability altogether? It makes no sense to not at the very least have both, and COD4 is one of those games that's frequently played by FPS clans, this move will pretty much kill that.

Matchmaking is fine as it can coexist with server lists, but having it on its own isn't a good thing, as it pointlessly cuts out the market that will use the game the most.

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Grandma
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 14:02
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What a silly thing to boycott. I've never heard of that game so I don't really care either way. Just posting to see if I'm alone in not caring.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

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demons breath
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 14:38
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Gotta agree with Grandma on this one, to be honest...

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Aaagreen
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 14:40
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TBH it's pointless boycotting a game I had no intentions of buying anyway - it isn't even released, and everyone has a solid idea in their head that it's going to be the best game ever.

I would laugh so hard if upon release it was really crap.


Then again, it may just be overrated like Halo 3. It's good, but nothing special. You just run and shoot, and jump unusually high.

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Van B
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 17:04
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Quote: "No it isn't, he clearly states that to host a dedicated server you'd want a business connection and not your typical residential one. As such, very few people host serious servers from their home, it's usually far simpler to use a game server provider as he's mentioned."


So answer my question then. Have you ever done this? - Have you ever rented a server, or set up your own server. Are you in a clan?

And maybe if you say yes to these I'll understand why you can't see things from a generic users point of view. Most users are not in clans, most users do not organize their own servers, most users do not see the need to pay server fees to play a game online, nor put up with the crud that server admins come up with.

People these days want to switch on and play, and these people outweigh those that want control over the server - that's what it boils down to, control. Frankly the less control these PC gaming Hitlers have, the better.

There you go DC, plenty to disagree with, fill your boots.


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 00:04 Edited at: 28th Oct 2009 00:06
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Quote: "They started from scratch on MW2. They did'nt just add to COD4, they completly remade it."


That is not true. There is no way the engine could be built from the ground up and a game made in just 2 years.

Quote: "People these days want to switch on and play, and these people outweigh those that want control over the server - that's what it boils down to, control. Frankly the less control these PC gaming Hitlers have, the better."


Well that's what separates PC gamers from console gamers. PC gamers are used to opening config files, tweaking settings, and setting up servers. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with IW's decisions on the matter, but I know their reasoning is to somehow curb piracy and sell more DLC. The decision was not to make things easier for PC gamers PC gamers have NOT been clamouring for a "switch on and play" system. The console mentality is clearly dumbing down PC gaming.


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entomophobiac
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 00:39
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Very interesting discussion. And though I personally believe that piracy is the biggest argument there ever was to put less effort into supporting the PC platform, I feel like Infinity Ward's plans are some kind of Battle.Net for Call of Duty. And I can't really see how that would ever be a bad thing.

Unfortunately, the PC crowd is the one who complains the most of all the game platform proponents. If you exclude the constant (and yawn-inducing) "my console is better than your console" flame-wars that seem to be difficult to get rid of, of course. Those are definitely the worst.

But seriously, has anyone ever followed the DRM discussion from an objective angle? At least 90% of all the generic staples are lies. Stuff that people take for granted, but are the product of nothing more than the piracy crowd and its Robin Hood illusions.

Anyway, I feel that this is the direction all games will be taking, whether we want it or not. And in my book, accessibility equals fun, so I'm all for it.

What's more unfortunate, however, is that I believe that the only reason that Call of Duty is as hyped is its 60 FPS rule. People are so used to shader-saturated games that barely run at 30, that the 60 of CoD becomes a form of liberation.

And it's really tragic that so few games strive for the same thing.
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Herakles
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 00:58
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The first time I saw the abreviation MW2 I nearly jumped out of my chair, because I thought it meant Morrowind 2 and thought "Cool! I didn't know the new TES game was going to be out so soon!" You can imagine my dissapointment when I learned that it was just another FPS. Like we need any more of those.

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Aertic
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 01:16
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As being probably the most competitive gamer here, in fact, probably the only competitive gamer here, I should somewhat have my say in this discussion about the pretty smart(yeah, I'm serious) boycotting that's going on here.

In short, Infinity Ward have realized that the piracy of Modern-Warfare was pretty high, and with their new game in the works they want to clamp down on that, as well as cracked servers, and even exploits through the mod-tools. So they thought it would be ideal to get rid of both dedicated servers, and mod-tools, and that isn't a good idea at all.

Why? Because the competitive scene in the original modern-warfare was pretty sweet for what it was, although I detested it because it was nothing more than mere turning around a corner and blind-spraying down the scope, it was still strong and capable of being one of the best(But I would NOT say that it could blow CS out of the water). Now, the thing with both CS and Modern-Warfare is that people who are interested in the competitive scene and start to make their own teams will one day own a server, public, private, it doesn't matter, they will always ascend to owning one. (I currently own a Ventrilo server hosted by Maxfrag, whereas my game servers are RENTED for 2 hours, for free too! Brutalcs.nu, you have to be swedish however) Now with the removal of dedicated Servers, which is just silly, why would you do that when other people can also make money for themselves through gaming? Ring a ding ding, leagues? Yeah, without dedicated servers - leagues for Modern-Warfare will soon be non-existent, simply because every server will have to be one hosted at EA, and we all know how bad Electronic Arts can be with servers(Time-Splitters anyone? They shut it down because they thought it was hardly played! A-Ha-Ha! TS is still active to this day). And I think it'll be a little difficult asking to get EA to host a server for that league, and I doubt they'd deliver it to the place that the league is taking part. (Last league/lan event that I recall watching was SLAP 19# in Sweden, I watched it at home via SourceTV. Wewt! Dignitas won! And Fnatic got 16-0'd! Ha-Ha! <3).

The lack of mod-tools will mean that every server will be the same, they'll be no different game-modes, they'll just be the bare bones that IW implemented, it's just silly. Sure, I ain't no pubber that plays fun-games all the time, like Surfing or Mini Games(Talking about CS here), but it'll also destroy the rest of the community that is not competitive. They'll get bored of the current game-types such as CTF or TDM. But where does modding tools come in with this? Well, from my pretty poor experience with servers(I'm bad with networking, ha-ha), the game-modes in CS were made through SourceSDK, and I bet it's the same with Modern-Warfare(No, I don't mean they were made WITH sourceSDK, but COD4's own SDK! ^_^ Silly literate ppl). So yeah, Hide-And-Seek with props(or the cs 1.6 vers) will be gone, which I doubt was in Cod4 anyways, but still, the lack of mod tools would make the game vanish off the shelves in matter of minutes, forget the fanboyism, it'll vanish, trust me.

Now that I heard on IW's twitter that they're looking back on it, it makes me smile, I guess. ^_^

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draknir_
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 01:36
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Matchmaking blows, dedicated servers are the only way to go on PC. I have personally rented 5 or 6 servers in my gaming history and was absolutely shocked to see IW go off the deep end like this. 160,000 signatures on this petition should indicate that their decision was a mistake.
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Aaagreen
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 02:13
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As long as EA never shuts down MOHAA multiplayer.

Its a good day to do what has to be done by me and help my brother to defeat the enemies
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Keo C
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 02:20
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Quote: "So answer my question then. Have you ever done this? - Have you ever rented a server, or set up your own server. Are you in a clan?"

I suppose I'll answer that and say yes, I've set up my own server and I have been in a clan.

Even though people don't join clans, I've seen many servers build up a base of regulars. I never really liked to play with random people.

Setting up a server from your house is okay, I used an old P4 on my network running Linux, and after 6 or 7 people joined, I found it pretty unplayable. It wasn't exactly hard, but I'm doubtful a novice could do it.

Quote: "I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with IW's decisions on the matter, but I know their reasoning is to somehow curb piracy and sell more DLC."


As far as I know, every previous CoD made you authenticate your CD key every time you wanted to play online. Unless this system somehow makes checks your copy of the game in single player as well, it won't help that much.


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Peter H
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 03:57 Edited at: 28th Oct 2009 03:58
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VanB: I've never run a server and i'm not in any clans (though i was a long time ago), i'm not even that serious of a gamer, but i love dedicated servers.

Why? because as Keo C said, you can go to the same server regularly and end up playing with the same people more often than not. It's a vast improvement from randomly playing with strangers every time, or having to get your friends to play with you every time you feel like playing.

If anything, dedicated servers make it easier for the casual gamer to pop in and out of a server filled with familiar people whenever they feel like it.

On a console you have a unified community (you have the same ID in all of your games no?). So if you make a friend in one game it's not as hard to find them again.

On a PC it can be nearly impossible, unless you exchange Xfire IDs or some other such thing then you will always be playing with strangers. Again, unless you are hardcore enough to get all your friends to play with you, but how does that fit with your claim that match-up servers are BETTER for casual people?

I loved dedicated servers long before, and after, i was in a clan. It's just so much more convenient. We shouldn't lie to ourselves, this is obviously a move to reduce piracy.

of course piracy is a completely different issue, and i'm not going to touch on that, or say that we should boycott MW2. I just want to say that match-up systems are vastly inferior (Except maybe on a console where you have systems like XBL to socialize).

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crispex
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 04:25
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PC by far beats consoles, but everyone doesn't have a super computer that runs these types of games, thus often refers to consoles. However, I do agree that most people who run servers have a sort of "power hungry" scheme. I myself run 2 Garry's Mod servers, and it's annoying as is.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 04:30
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I liked COD4 and 5 but now I prefer Operation Flashpoint, COD doesn't feel as real after playing OF; LIFE doesn't feel as real after playing OF! The friends list is screwed on that game though (maybe this is just for PS3) the people you play with don't appear on your "players met" list, and to add a friend within the game you have to type in their username! I can't remember how they spelled there name, I was concentrating on not getting shot!

So I'm not that bothered about MW2, it's going to be £45 over here!
Most games don't go over £40.
Why would you want to boycott a good game though? If you don't buy it they wont bother releasing the next one on PC at all!
I've heard that after MW2 there wont be another COD game on Playstation! Is this true?

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 04:39
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Whats wrong with match making? It makes perfect sense to me. If a game is distributing you a ranking on your skill, it shouldn't be based on your skill in playing against the same set of players over and over. I dont know what the DS does, but any xbox game I've played with match making almost never runs you into the same people, especially if you flag them as people you don't like. Any games that I've seen use match making always include a custom match feature anyways, allowing you to face friends if you want, but eliminating the ranking system to remove the chance of people letting friends get kills / ranks. I remember this was a big issue with CS, people wanted kill counts and would open private servers and kill each other repeatedly to up their score. I dont know how Modern Warfare will handle this, but I doubt it would be anything different than the standardized system thats happening on XBL.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 04:59
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Quote: "I remember this was a big issue with CS, people wanted kill counts and would open private servers and kill each other repeatedly to up their score."

Why are people so sad? It's for that very reason I loathed the day Playstation copied Microsoft's award system. Who plays games for awards? If you're that keen on getting awards make me some tea and I'll give you a fricking "tea maker" award!
It's just seeking affirmation; they may as well replace awards with a soft female voice saying "you're so great".
This goes to crazy lengths: I got the old gameboy out last night for a bit of nostalgia and found myself playing "Vermin" - a game in which you're a pathetic farmer who grows four turnips and you move between the turnips to protect them from moles that leave a trail of bumps to their turnip prey. I found myself playing for about an hour because... a little tune plays every 100pts! It's slightly different every time and that was enough to trap me in this terrible game and make me hate myself.

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demons breath
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 05:11
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Quote: " Who plays games for awards? "


Can I just say, I do? I wouldn't really consider myself a gamer, but the games I do play (and there are very few, mostly online mini-game style things) I either play for there levelling up options, or their awards systems. I like having something to aim for. The last game I remember getting properly into (apart from maybe Luigi's Mansion which I had a go on this summer) was Tony Hawks Underground a couple of years back, but the target-style thing of trying to get every gap kept me playing much longer than most other games would have. I like having targets and something to aim for.

I play a few of those facebook games, Mafia Wars and My Zoo especially, and the things I like about those are the achievements in the former and the challenges in the latter. Apart from that, online minigames and a brief stint on Zelda: OoT for about a week, I haven't actually played a game in months. I enjoy that sense of achievement you get when you complete a goal (especially with stuff where you have friends online and there's a sense of competition).

Quote: "It's just seeking affirmation; they may as well replace awards with a soft female voice saying "you're so great"."


I don't deny this for a second, yet myself, and I'm sure a lot of the game-playing world, enjoy this, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Except possibly that if there's a soft female voice there should also be an attractive picture displayed on screen.

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dark coder
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 06:08
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Quote: "So answer my question then. Have you ever done this? - Have you ever rented a server, or set up your own server. Are you in a clan?"


I fail to see the relevancy of this, but in any case yes: I've hosted several dedicated servers myself, for CSS/GMOD/BF2, while I haven't ever paid for a 3rd party server I know people who have and I've been admins on them. I've also been in 2 clans that have together owned several servers across various games.

Right now I'm not doing either but I still frequent clan servers because they have a lot of advantages, such as the community; if a server is good then people will likely come back, a good server requires good moderation and they will kick out/ban unwanted players, thus you don't have to deal with trolls, at least not for long. If there's any settings you want changed with the server then that can be done, if you want new maps in the rotation then that can be done, etc etc.


Quote: "And maybe if you say yes to these I'll understand why you can't see things from a generic users point of view."


So because I'm not a total noob to gaming I'm unable to see what it would be like to such a person? You make it seem like the pub server scene in COD4/CSS is also about league matches and scrims and anyone new to it will get their arses handed to them 50 ways every round, this isn't the case at all.


Quote: "Most users are not in clans, most users do not organize their own servers, most users do not see the need to pay server fees to play a game online"


What server fees are you on about? Most people don't organize their own servers as you say, so they pay nothing. If they want a dedicated server then they most likely will pay for one, but it's not required. This proposed system results in listen servers that are generated when a match is found, you can already create such servers right now in almost all PC FPS games and it costs nothing.

Quote: "nor put up with the crud that server admins come up with."


How often do you come across bad admins? I've played many FPS games over the years across hundreds of servers and it's very very rare you come across a crap admin. The reason for this is quite obvious, bad admins push players away, and if no one goes to a server then there's nothing they can abuse, and servers cost money so they're usually part of a larger community and if an admin is known to be bad then they will get kicked out.


Quote: "People these days want to switch on and play, and these people outweigh those that want control over the server - that's what it boils down to, control."


You still haven't put forward an argument why we can't have both, I've already said matchmaking is fine if it allows for dedicated servers too, I see that as a win-win scenario.

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Van B
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 09:50
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I haven't put forward an argument for why we can't have both, because if you look back to page one I actually said ''Casual gamers prefer just to get stuck in, but dedicated servers should be there as well for those that want them'' - or words to that effect.

I'm going by my own experiences DC, and really with PC games it's a pain in the butt to be a noob at anything. I remember the first time I played BF2, made the mistake of taking a wrong turning and someone was in my turret, oops, kick the noob. It's like your not entitled to play your own game sometimes. I know that's an extreme, but that's how it goes until you know the game and don't make these stupid, but mostly harmless mistakes. Even if they had a beginner setup, like a few servers purely for beginners to go around TK'ing and people to experiment with gameplay ideas - A complete free for all. There's always stuff I want to do, but don't because it might get me in trouble. It got to the point where I'd rather play CS:Source against bots!, and that's a pretty dark place to be.

Gaming capable PC's are a lot more affordable these days, so there is a new market of PC owners who play some games, as opposed to gamers who own PC's. I think it would be ideal to have both - people could match-make, find some friends then start playing on servers once they know the ropes. Experienced gamers don't want noobs in their team, noobs don't want to get owned every 4 seconds by exp' gamers.


In the gaming world though, PC gamers have to be the huffiest - raising petitions to boycott games, this time because they drop dedicated servers, last time it was protection methods... And 120,000 signatures is peanuts, considering the chances of these people actually sticking to the boycott. I mean really they'd be better off puncturing the tires of the lorries full of MW2 for the 360 . Don't these people care about the single player campaign? - I always see multiplayer as a bonus, unless it's a Battlefield game of course. CoD always has excellent storylines, for me, multiplayer has always been a thing for after playing the campaign.

What I don't understand though, is how we can have a paid service like XBL, and a massive user base with the 360 - yet even in a game like BF1943 it's still 8v8 at the most, 16 players in a war game is pretty thin. Yet Killzone2 on the PS3 has 32 players, and is 'free' - by free I mean someone elses paying for it, might be Sony, don't know!.


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