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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / [STICKY] U77 Public Release Candidate

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EdzUp
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Posted: 7th Jan 2012 20:48
have a look at www.blitzbasic.com and blitzmax

-EdzUp
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Santman
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Posted: 8th Jan 2012 21:57
I'm sorry, I have to add in here. I have in the past spoken down about DBP, though only as the latest update (which was quick - good as it was a critical problem that MICROSOFT caused) stopped the shadow shader working, and I personally don't know enough about shaders to fix them (and since there are so many apparent geniuses out there - why don't one of you smart arses just fix the shadow shader for the rest of us in the U7 update since you're so clever and stop all our misery - that's the only bug I've found).

But really? DX9 is being phased out? ON WHAT PLANET!!! Name ANY one SINGLE game that does not work under DX9. Or any even announced game that you think wont. In case you hadn't noticed, even the cheapest, decent DX11 card (lets not even talk about DX10 - it brought nothing interesting to the table) is still too expensive for most (not everyone still lives with mummy). And TBH, tesselation is the only aspect of DX11 that interests me. I have a GTX260 OC with 768meg - very little won't run on it at 50fps+. Even BF3 (the DX10 version) runs maxed out, albeit with a little slow down. Call of Duty MW3 - awesome graphics, still above 50 FPS with everything maxed at 1080p resolutions. So - why would I upgrade? And I suspect that ALOT of people feel the same. PC gamers, by in large, don't buy a new graphics card "just because it's new" - and well over 90% of PC owners still run mid to low end graphics....especially in laptops where DX11 will rarely be seen. Yes, tesselation can look good - but Skyrim, argeuably graphically very poor by modern standards, is astoundingly good. Mass Effect 3 also will be. Given the time, effort and cost of making a DX11 title (there are NONE so far - check if you want, the odd reflection and pretty wall does not count) the ONLY thing which will potentially doom DX9, is the hardware that the new XBox and PS3 announce soon. If they move to DX11 (which seems likely TBH since nVidia already powers the PS3, and previously did the Xbox), then it may become more "standard". Until then, no way. Check La Noire on the consoles - 100% DX9. Now, tell me that ANYONE here is making anything even close to that level of graphics. Not to mention the new Wii - no sign of anything even close to DX11 there. If you want DX11, move to C++ and see how small your market actually is - that's not what DBPro is about.

Just please make it work for those of us who like to create, but are not wizzkids....that is what we paid for!!!
Santman
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Posted: 8th Jan 2012 22:01
Oh and BTW - I also have rage - once I increased my page file size and split it across primary and secondary drives, that also runs with the high cache setting (pop up looks so shoddy) and over 60FPS maxed out.....so why would I bin £150 just to get DX11 that is BARELY supported by only the biggest games?!?!?!

And for the record, I think DBPro is an astounding piece of software also - look at the petty things we're griping about YEARS after it's release. Just an after thought.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 8th Jan 2012 23:09 Edited at: 8th Jan 2012 23:10
well from 2007 to about 2009
the forums went pretty quiet

but since 2010 major Additions free and pay have started to show up

and I've got a couple of additions I want to create unless some
beats me to it which is fine by me other than me not making a few small
coin's for me work

windows vista , windows 7 and soon windows 8
have junked things up

so DBP has the be made to work with it
unfortunately some peaces of DBP free and pay additions take the hit for ms stupidity

and they are a pretty inept group

not one of there windows have been stable , more bug and holes than swish cheese after the mice get dun with it

DX 10 , DX 11 Were the next big thing for them

it looked like it opened up more options but the hard ware
needs to be able to handle the load , now with video cards hitting 3 gb
it helps but only so much , the memory would need to be closer to 40 gb
and as fast as the cpu's to hit what gamers want of which I am one
even the cpu speeds need to go up 6 times
the rest of the hard ware is good for whats needs

oo gpu need to be be upped too, memory and speed and more of them
2 or 4 ok 15 or 30 even better and have it so it could be
dun via the usb port might be a thought too then older
Net-books or laps tops could be used for creating games

I know it takes time and understanding how to do it
so like every thing in life we bitch and complain and some ware down the road it happens

DBP Is one of the ea-east programing languages out there
the rest come close and in other places miss the mark and
making additions for it can be dun , all be it a lot hard than building a
full size house out of tooth picks

just some thing's to think about

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
JackDawson
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 13:40 Edited at: 9th Jan 2012 13:41
Sad but SantMan is correct, not everyone wants to pay the 150 + for the newer hardware. But the sad truth is, DirectX 9 is being phased out. According to the reports and video conferences for the new Windows 8 OS, DirectX 11.1 is the newest thing. And it will work on DirectX 9 video cards, but it will not be a true 100% support for DirectX 9 functions since everything about Windows 8 is gearing up for the newer functionality of Directx 11.1. Windows Aero for example is simulated to work on DirectX 9 video cards that need the legacy support, but it was made for DirectX 10 and higher. Ever since vista came out, people been wondering why DBP has stopped working or what not.. well now your seeing why.

And with the new Windows 8 that will be shipped with all new computers soon, we can kiss DBP goodbye eventually if TGC doesn't get it working now and make it more compatible with the newer DirectX features. Making it a 64Bit Compiler would be a plus as well. I'm not saying it will be 100% useless, becase lets face it, there are still hard core users who use the old equipment. But for the rest of us who are catching up with the world, we will not be able to use it unless we use an emulator or Virtual machine.

But as Santman said, no one wants to pay that kind of money.. well the good news is, there are video cards that are directX 11 compatible and are not that expensive anymore. I saw one on NewEgg the other day that was DirectX 11 and it was 59.95 Bucks USA. So prices have come down.

People will switch and when they do, us whom has loved the ease of use of DBP will see it too phase out unless something is done about it soon.

And if you can't see that DirectX 9 is being phased out, maybe you need to do some research. Its mainstream now, but wont be for long.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
EdzUp
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 14:07
Eventually dx9 will go the way of Windows XP SP1 and SP2, DirectX 7 and 8 and that way is retirement.

Windows XP is now only supported if you have SP3 hell even Vista isnt supported unless you have the latest service pack. When Windows 8 get here and 2014 has passed I can see loads of people will upgrade to the next big OS by that time will be Windows 8 or 9 so by then if DBPro dont run natively there then its a virtual machine.

Loads of languages are going to have to face the upgrade or die problem its not just DBPro, Blitz3d will eventually have to bite the bullet and be updated or be retired there are those over there that are stating the problems with that too. The thing is BlitzMax fills the niche quite nicely over there with its cross platform compiling and opengl backend.

From what I see here though DB doesnt have that option yet being completely tied to Windows, its a shame really but DarkBasic as it stands hasnt been updated with Windows as a whole.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

-EdzUp
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JackDawson
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 15:17 Edited at: 9th Jan 2012 15:22
Agreed EdzUp..

On a more positive note, thanks to DBP not fixing their stuff it pushed me where I didn't want to go in the first place, C++ with freeGlut (OpenGL) in the Code::Blocks IDE. Well its not as bad as I thought. I already started to work on the next version of my Active Terrain that I had originally made in DBP. Technically I should be thanking TGC, and not complaining. So Thank you TGC.



"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."

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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 16:32
Hi Guys,

Just want to chime in quickly to say officially that DBP is far from dead, and continues to be supported by TGC In fact I am using it right now for a side project to help dementia patients and have improved the touch input system, plus added a few little extras along the way such as the ability to shut down the PC with a single command, very naughty!

As many of you have guessed, most of our time has been taken up developing the first version of AppGameKit (www.appgamekit.com) which is no small task. We have had to play a little catch-up in the cross-platform arena, but we're pretty much back on track now and looking forward to bringing all the things you like about DBP across to AppGameKit It will probably take years to get to where we are with DBP, but the pay-off is that your apps will run on pretty much everything that runs on electricity.

In the mean-time DBP is still our big fish, and one of the reasons the updates have been so light on the ground is that you can pretty much workaround most of the bugs that remain in the language. I also provided access to the DBP source code through Google Code so you could make small tweaks yourself for critical projects, and invited anyone interested to send me fixes they had made. As I did not receive a single email in this respect, I figured the ship was good enough to continue sailing.

All that said, I agree an update is due, even if it's just to move U77 from beta to release, and to include all the tweaks I've made in the background.

If anyone is interested in looking at the source code and helping me find and reproduce the most annoying remaining bugs in DBP, please contact me at lee@thegamecreators.com.

On that subject, I will be starting a treat soon to ask what your most annoying three bugs are in DBP, with a view to creating a top twenty chart of bugs you would like to see eliminated. Not sure we I can find the time (or people) to action such a list, but I think it's always a good ideas to take some action before leaving the scene of a problem.

Thanks again for the faith and sticking with DBP. More so, I hope you're still finding DBP useful and enjoying the simple thrill of coding I have been coding 29 years now, and still getting a buzz out of it!

I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.
baxslash
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 16:51
That's very reassuring Lee glad to hear it. Although I'm a complete AppGameKit convert I still use DBPro for a lot of my own tools (some of the plugins are invaluable) and indeed for 3D games. Perhaps some of the development work being done on AppGameKit is having some influence on DBPro too (you mentioned that you've been working on the touch commands), I imagine there's a little crossover?

I don't personally know very much about DX11 or whether DX9 is being phased out but it's great to hear from the horses mouth that DBPro is not being shelved.

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 17:42
it seams one thought can influence anther one

I know some day I will have to move to what ever windows exist
and deal with the quirks and but ends of the that windows

but as long as the software I have access to works that's all that matters to me

in some way DX 9 will always be around but more hidden in the back ground
because ever DX after that has it as part of it all be it in a limited way

at least with "LeeBamber" posting we now know
that DBP will continue

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
JackDawson
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 20:21
Thank you Lee. That's all I wanted to hear is that your going to fix the U77 ( or whatever ). Its the only reason I even bothered to post here on this thread at all is because I was HOPING you would see ours / my rants and raves to give you a heads up.

I look forward to seeing the thread on the "Top 3 Annoying Bugs".

Again, thank you Lee.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
Wyldhunt
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 21:34
Thanks for chiming in, Lee.
I'll definitely be watching for the top 3 thread (Although you may need to mention it here so that I get an e-mail notification).
I would love to come back to DBP. I'd also love to help with the bugs. Unfortunately, I don't know enough C++ to make any serious change.
Repairing the top 3 bugs would probably go a long way towards keeping everyone happy. I can only think of 2 or 3 bugs that people complain about.

The threat of DX9 being phased out is still a serious concern though.
Out of curiosity, how far did you get with the DX10 conversion for FPSC, and what roadblocks did you hit that prevented you from doing a full conversion?
Santman
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 21:38
Excellent news, though the top three bugs for me would be difficult to list....my day job is small application development in VB (primarily excell based) so working around bugs is just something I expect, but the shadow shader is the main killer for me. Anyway, would be awesome to see that fixed - my WIP can't really do without them.

And I'd also be more than willing to help bug shoot, but also have no c++ exp - but anything else that I could help with I'd be happy to.
Brendy boy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 22:04
Quote: "Out of curiosity, how far did you get with the DX10 conversion for FPSC, and what roadblocks did you hit that prevented you from doing a full conversion? "

That is an excellent question. And I have an addition question for lee: Why isn't there a DX10 version of DBPro's source code on the google code. I think users who are experienced with C++ would rather fix the DX10 version, because DX9 is a little outdated

Dar13
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 23:03 Edited at: 9th Jan 2012 23:08
@JackDawson
I would've done this earlier, but I just didn't have the motivation. I'm currently digging through the DBPro source trying to find why the fog color is overriding the shadow color. Can you make me a small, small as you can, example showing the shadows not working?

EDIT: NVM, found an example.

EdzUp
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 23:21
One better question would simply be why make a DirectX update why not go OpenGL this would allow portability to other platforms, surely you must have learnt some OpenGL with AppGameKit?

-EdzUp
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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 23:30
I also think OpenGL would be a better way to go
it's stable and it's not ms junk

it will work with all windows new and old

I'm shire that it takes up less resources to produce the same results as DirectX

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Dar13
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Posted: 9th Jan 2012 23:49
OpenGL and DirectX are fundamentally different. Would you be willing to wait 2 years for OpenGL functionality, with nothing to tide you over? That's what it would take, as it would require almost an entire restructuring of the DBPro engine. I've switched graphics engines before(DarkGDK to Irrlicht to OGRE), and it takes forever to switch over every single functionality of the old engine(which is expected by the users) to the new engine.

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 00:16
@Dar13

how hard would it be to implement OpenGL ?

as long as I can load my 3d model's , do changes to them in memory
and have them show up like they do not that's all that matters to me

why could some thing be set up in the back Ground to take care of
what OpenGL needs ?

basically cut out the user needing to think about that part
I know it would take a bit and some work to get the hole thing worked out

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Brendy boy
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 00:24
It would take a huge amount of work. The whole rendering pipeline would need to be rewritten from scratch, including object loading, texture loading. All the shaders written so far would became useless.
And, to make it work on linux the compiler would need to be rewritten.

Dar13
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 00:45
DBPro was built entirely on the framework that DirectX provides. Take out DirectX and DBPro no longer has keyboard or mouse input, sound or music support, and networking as well as any I have forgotten about. That's a ton of stuff to replace that OpenGL doesn't have. You'd have to use other external libraries such as OpenAL, OIS, and RakNet just to get back that basic functionality in DBPro. Then you have to integrate those different libraries(with all of their dependencies) to play nicely together in a dynamic framework that can handle some of the innovative things the users of this community put together which is a challenge in and of itself.

gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 01:29
I forgot about how much Direct X takes care of
and it would some parts of Nvidas PhsyX would have to be rewritten
or totally built from scratch to work

which means a total rebuild of all pay and free additions for DBP

so updating DBP for Direct X 10 to 11 or 12 as things are going
is the only choice and the well some what easiest thing to implement

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
CumQuaT
AGK Master
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 02:12 Edited at: 10th Jan 2012 02:13
[edited] mispost


WLGfx
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 02:43
If I had the time and patience (which I sometimes do but not for long) I'd have a look through the source a bit more as Dar13 has done. From what I can tell, DBP is just made up of lots of libraries and the compiler just throws it all in an exe from whats actually used. There's various IDEs out there which I guess call the compiler to create the exe file. How the compiler is called or how the startup code goes, I've not checked out but may do sometime in the future.

Making an upgrade to another DX framework is a huge task and although I think DX9 is more than sufficient, after spotting a comment earlier saying that DBP runs on anything greater than XP with SP3 I was surprised. MS have this new thing called Windows 8, ewwwwww, another one so soon. I'm still with XP. And so what, DX11 has this new tesselation, buy a new graphics card just to see it working. Nah not me.

U77 seems to have been a rushed update as some have had to downgrade because of new bugs cropping up. And lots of people piping up about the problems. A lot of TGC software users are patient and do work around the bugs. It's really what a programmer has to do anyway. I've been coding for over 30 years now and bugs are just a part of life.

What DBPro does need is a fresh release, bugs fixed and the standard plugins that are available for free to be added to the download, such as Matrix1, D3DFunc, Advanced2D, etc. There's lots that could be added.

Recently over the last few months I've looked around at opengl api's and it would be nice to have a DBP running with something like "openscenegraph" as its backbone. But then again after seeing whats been going on here, someone would pipe up and say, "why is it only opengl 1.4? Why not 3.0". It would go round in circles again. Opengl would open up a lot more avenues though.

My main gripe I have at the moment is the C++ versions of DBP, Dark GDK and Pure GDK. They run so much slower than native DBP. It would be nice to have better access to those libraries for C++ users. Standard ansi C is faster than DBP but the engine itself is slower.

Good luck with the next update and maybe one day I'll have a browse through the code too properly.

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
Dar13
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 03:06
Quote: "My main gripe I have at the moment is the C++ versions of DBP, Dark GDK and Pure GDK. They run so much slower than native DBP. It would be nice to have better access to those libraries for C++ users. Standard ansi C is faster than DBP but the engine itself is slower."

I've noticed that as well. I suppose it's because they've had to add another layer of abstraction in order to interact properly with ANSI C++(well, somewhat. DarkGDK really really doesn't like the STL.). I think the slowdown with PureGDK is that it relies on DLL exports and that has its own overhead costs in addition to the function itself.

You know what? I actually have a profiler I use to optimize some trouble spots in my OGRE/C++ game. If I have time, and I remember, I'll run it on one of my older PureGDK projects. Perhaps that could shed some light on what's causing the slowdown.

JackDawson
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 03:09
@Dar13 - You must have found my thread here :
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=188950&b=1

Yea its what started this whole domino effect of my heading back to an earlier version of DBP only to find out that the newer versions fixed bugs that the earlier version had messed up. So it was a catch 22.

WLGfx, my partner in crime. I agree, there are some gripes about speed, I already sent in an email about my 3 "bugs" and optimizing the code for better frame rates was one of them.

As for OpenGL, I have learned quite a lot about it. In fact, Code::Blocks folks asked me to write a tutorial on how to add one of the main libraries to their IDE until they can add it mainstream. Here is that link if your interested :

http://wiki.codeblocks.org/index.php?title=Using_FreeGlut_with_Code::Blocks

With that I made the green OpenGL / C++ picture you saw on this thread. It allows for a lot of input from keyboard and mouse and other functions that someone else said was not built into OpenGL. But it is. All you need is that one DLL which is an updated replacement to Glut32 on windows and Linux.

OpenAL I have seen more and more come into the limelight as more games are using this as their main Audio API. So this was no big deal to install that DLL.

Other then that, thats all a person needs to add OpenGL functionality to DBP. So if Lee and the guys know how to write for DirectX, it would not be that hard to add OpenGL as long as you stick with ONE library. And that to me would be freeGlut. Do not bother with other libraries. I have been studying this for the past two years because I originally was checking to see if it was possible to use it with DBP. At this time its not. Since its a directX only software. But some of the others are right, if you don't have a clue as to what your doing with OpenGL, it will take you a couple years to get the hang of it, which I FINALLY do since I couldn't use DBP.

But this doesn't stop me from going back to BASIC if it means I can concentrate more on game creation then on "What can this do with OpenGL this time". Yea.. that terrain was easy to make, but I had to do a lot of studying to get to that point.

Dar13, if the example on my link or the example you found is not enough, let me know. I installed everything back on my computer a few hours ago. I am eager to get cranking back on my terrain again. Except this time, I'll be testing out Blitz Terrain since he had an upgrade in my absence. But the shadow vs fog issue I can reproduce fairly easily. Keep in mind, that thread I made was about that same issue when I was using 7_7 RC7. Its the reason I had to revert back to 1.061. And I cannot find 1.07 anymore.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
Dar13
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 04:03
It seems like the shadow color set by 'set global shadow color' isn't used at all. But I also can't find where the fog color is used instead. I'll keep looking, but the source code is massive.

WLGfx
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 04:33
DBP for me runs at a fantastic speed for it being a BASIC compiler but the C++ versions are dire compared to it. Maybe there's a way of utilising the code or the dll's and getting the same speed with C++. I really do not like programming in any BASIC. I used to have a pencil and paper, write out assembly code, convert it to hex and then type in the data, well before assemblers even came out. (ZX Spectrum 16k)

I'd definitely like to see the next update to DBP with all the free plugins though. That way anything in the codebase and snippets anyone can run.

@Dar13 - Have you ever managed to compile any of the code yet? If it's actually possible I'd have a browse through definitely.

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
JackDawson
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 05:32
WLGfx, I bet you were also chipping away at your first tools from a rock back then too ehh ? hahahaha.. just kidding bro..

Anyhow, yea I remember assembly language back in the day. But now days my brain is mush. No brain cells to do advanced algebra anymore. Its why I wanted BASIC in the first place

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
LeeBamber
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 14:34
The '3 that annoy' thread is live: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=193289&b=1

I drink tea, and in my spare time I write software.
Jaeg
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 16:48
Quote: "DBPro was built entirely on the framework that DirectX provides. Take out DirectX and DBPro no longer has keyboard or mouse input, sound or music support, and networking as well as any I have forgotten about. That's a ton of stuff to replace that OpenGL doesn't have."


You can use OpenGL as the renderer instead of direct3D. Doom3 does this. Actually I think most of IDs PC games do this.

Go ahead. Walk into Mordor.

Ball State University - Computer Science Major
Marco A G Pinto
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 18:14
What about the BlueGUI plug-in by Robert Knight?

It has lots of issues with Windows 7.

Could someone grab its source code and make a new version?


Kind regards,
>Marco A.G.Pinto
---------------
=PRoF=
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 18:29
@Marco A G Pinto:
I'm sure the source to BlueGUI is available, as Humanoid made an extended version of it (adding a couple of needed commands)

It would be nice, but BBB Gui is making good headway as a replacement.

Marco A G Pinto
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 19:07
@=PRoF=
The version by Humanoid introduced at least one bug and it didn't fix the issues with Windows 7.

I have a utility which is ready for ages and I haven't released it yet because of the BlueGUI bugs.

I don't have much free time to learn BBB Gui and don't know if I would need to replace most of my code in order to use it.

Kind regards,
>Marco A.G.Pinto
---------------
=PRoF=
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 19:18 Edited at: 10th Jan 2012 19:20
@Marco A G Pinto:
I wasn't aware Humanoid's release added any new bugs, but I only said about it as evidence that the source code must be available

I also am having to put a project on hold (The one in my signature) due to the DBP/BlueGUI version crashing. I have started a C# version, but am finding the new language a little tricky.

As for swapping over to BBB, it might be a bit of a job, but worth it in the long run perhaps as BBB is still actively developed (I think)

JackDawson
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 23:50
@ =PRoF=,

C# was my first C-like language outside of C. I would write with C#, but I soon found out that 3D was not easy to do in C# with any good frame rates. So its why I came to DBP and C++. But DOS consoles-like games are a breeze. If you want my DOS Console resize code for C#, I have attached it to my post here. Even has a Menu. Enjoy.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."

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=PRoF=
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Posted: 10th Jan 2012 23:57
@JackDawson:
I just use C# to make Windows Apps atm (Well, trying to anyway). I've been coding in Basic for over 25 years, and am finding the transition to OOP/C based stuff a little awkward tbh. I still use DBP to make games.

JackDawson
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Posted: 11th Jan 2012 00:03 Edited at: 11th Jan 2012 00:04
Ahh yea I hear ya.. The thing is, I am working on a viewer either in DBP or in C++ and making my server in C#. Its a quick and easy language and can multi-thread really easily, which I have example code on how to do that as well. Too me some time to write these up and I even had them as tutorials on youtube, guess I'll need to put these back out for the public again.

Either way, don't give up on C#. Its MS version of JAVA, but its quick and dirty for rapid dev on windows. And if you need any help on Console games in general, let me know, I'll be glad to lend a hand. ( Saw your website. Nice Work. )

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
EdzUp
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Posted: 11th Jan 2012 00:12
The reason I said OpenGL is there is loads of documentation for it and its very portable, hell I have a basic engine thats cross platform already using OpenGL for rendering, GLUT code for input/sound, libpng for png loading and OpenAL for sound. This engine itself actually runs at 30fps with 2000 sprites on a iPod 2nd generation, I also have versions for OSX, Linux and Windows.

Taking into account this is just me coding here and im no 3d guru and the engine from inception to where it is now has taken me about four months on and off so think what TGC could do in that time?

The only thing that will hold DBPro back is waiting for implementation surely it would be in TGC's interests to move forwards with the times after all its only a matter of time before M$ do something else with DX that will make it all the harder to use, they have a loverly track record of making things harder to use in some cases :s

For those wanting to see what GL case do look at Leadwerks Engine 2 and all the GL demos and games out there surely its a win/win situation.

-EdzUp
Graveyard Dogs
JackDawson
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Posted: 11th Jan 2012 00:16
EdzUp, I have been working on a procedural planetary terrain of my own in OpenGL using freeGlut. ( Basically freeGlut is the newer windows alternative to Glut. )

You got a demo of your engine ?

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
EdzUp
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Posted: 11th Jan 2012 18:56
@JackDawson: the engine is a internal 3d engine for Graveyard Dogs projects once complete we will use it in all our games. There are early shots on our blog though the engine has moved on since then but you can get the idea.

-EdzUp
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JackDawson
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Posted: 12th Jan 2012 16:42
Ok good deal EdzUp.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
Greenster
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Posted: 13th Jan 2012 11:24
If you do anything 3D in .NET you might as well go with XNA..

I still support the idea of putting 3D in the PC part of AppGameKit and consolidating everything, so we get more active development and features. I'd actually buy AppGameKit despite the over-restricting licensing if they did..

Also people are doing WP7 stuff without silverlight and XNA now, so maybe we will see it in AGK.
Juggernaut
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Posted: 13th Mar 2012 13:09
Hello,

Is U77 the latest update for Dark Basic Pro ?

Is this newer than - DarkBASIC Professional Upgrade 7.61
officially listed here - http://www.thegamecreators.com/?m=view_product&id=2000&page=upgrade7-61

If so, is it advisable to download the U77 update file and apply it over the existing U 7.61 ? Please advice.

Thanks,
Wyldhunt
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Posted: 13th Mar 2012 21:46
U77 is the newest version of DBP. It's a beta release, and has a few new bugs. There's a thread dedicated to reporting bugs in U77 so that they can get fixed. I don't have the link right now, but it's an active thread so it should be fairly easy to find.

The main thing that this update will fix is compatability with Windows 7.
Anything compiled with an earlier version of DBP than U77 will not run on most Windows 7 computers. One of the Win 7 security updates prevents older DBP programs from running. That means that if you create a program in 7.61 and sell it online, almost everyone with Win7 will report that it fails to load.

For that reason, I recommend using this version. Keep in mind, however, that it is BETA and still has a few bugs as reported in this thread and the dedicated bug thread.
=PRoF=
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Posted: 13th Mar 2012 21:47
@Wyldhunt:
I'm fairly sure the 7.61 upgrade has the Win7 SP1 fix included as well.

Wyldhunt
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Posted: 13th Mar 2012 21:48
Here is the other bug thread that I mentioned:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=193289&b=1
Wyldhunt
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Posted: 13th Mar 2012 21:50 Edited at: 13th Mar 2012 22:01
@=PRoF=
First page, first post:
Quote: "
Upgrade 7.7
===========

Major Fix
---------
Microsoft's latest Windows 7 SP1 all-in-one update package introduces a new security 'feature' which completely disables all DBP applications from running. Not the best move in the world, but don't let this lunacy stop you creating great applications. RC3 includes the fix which solves this problem."


I had to update to U77 because it was failing on my Win7 after the SP1 update.

DBP would still work with 7.61. The final compiled programs always failed when I tried to load them though.
Juggernaut
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 02:06
@Wyldhunt: OH! This is all very alarming. I hope I get to see a stable bug free release of U77 soon.

When you said - "RC3 includes the fix which solves this problem" - you were talking about U77 or some other thing ?

Also a different question to you - how good are these -

Dark Physics, Dark AI, Dark Lights etc. add ons .....

Have you used them before ? Do they "do what they are supposed to do" ? Or are they buggy ? How much do these add ons work accurately ? 100 % or 80 % or 70 % or 60 % or 50% - How much rating will you give them ?

Thanks,
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 02:10
Why not quote the U7.61 upgrade notes as well?

Quote: "Upgrade 7.61
===========

Compiler
--------

* Recompile to handle Windows 7 SP1
"


I think U7.61 and U7.7 were developed more or less concurrently and both have the patch you refer to.

I'm using U7.7RC7 but it does have a few bugs.

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