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Geek Culture / Whining about Modern Videogames [Top 5 Dislikes]

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crispex
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Posted: 29th May 2011 18:54
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Quote: "Games are FAR too easy these days, I don't want to feel like the developers are holding my hand through the whole thing! The first thing I do when I buy a game these days is go into the options menu and turn off all the assists, but it's still too easy.
"


Because games cater to the "new" generation of gamers, otherwise known as the lazy ones.

I remember good old Crash Bandicoot. You had to have serious skill to beat it quickly. It took me 6 months to beat it. I wasn't playing every day, but still.

I just now realized I've had a typo in my signature for the past 3 years.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 29th May 2011 19:10 Edited at: 29th May 2011 19:10
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Quote: "but to say it was better back then - it wasn't."


It was. Maybe not back in the late 80s, but in late 1990 and 2000, yes. The games were far superior because companies hadn't yet realised that they could pump out crap game after crap game if the franchise was popular enough.

Quote: "I remember good old Crash Bandicoot. You had to have serious skill to beat it quickly. It took me 6 months to beat it. I wasn't playing every day, but still."


That was a great game, the likes of which we don't see often these days since modern games are inferior.



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Stormwire
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Posted: 29th May 2011 19:17 Edited at: 29th May 2011 19:20
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Quote: "Looking forward to the sequel? It's set underground though, so I'm unsure how destructability's gunna play into that."


Oh hell yes! The first was such a blast and from the trailers and play through the second seems to be doing there own thing. I just hope they don't go the Crysis 2 route and completely consolize it. From the looks of things there will be more mechs (which is always a good thing in my book) and more varied enemy's. I would have preorder it but I have had too many bad experiences doing that.

Quote: "It was. Maybe not back in the late 80s, but in late 1990 and 2000, yes. The games were far superior because companies hadn't yet realised that they could pump out crap game after crap game if the franchise was popular enough."


So true. There is retro and there is just plain old lol I still play Thief and Dungeon Keeper. There are some games that just never loose there polish.
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 29th May 2011 19:27 Edited at: 29th May 2011 20:18
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Quote: "Oh hell yes! The first was such a blast and from the trailers and play through the second seems to be doing there own thing. I just hope they don't go the Crysis 2 route and completely consolize it. From the looks of things there will be more mechs (which is always a good thing in my book) and more varied enemy's. I would have preorder it but I have had too many bad experiences doing that.
"


Guerilla is the 3rd, there was Red Faction 1 and 2 for the PS2 before it - they're not really that notable though.

The weird aliens look pretty cool, I'm guessing the EDF are dead.

/Edit/

But hey, at least we can dream of this: (Swears in image.)
http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/27/27254.jpg

Don't watch this if you hate happiness.
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Jeku
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Posted: 29th May 2011 23:13 Edited at: 29th May 2011 23:15
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Here's my 5 game annoyances in no order:

Games that are too long!
I'm in the minority where I want games to be between 8-10 hours. Once in a while I'll be crazy and sink 50 hours into a game like Fallout 3, but I have a hard enough time staying interested in a single game let alone complete it. 99% of my game library is unbeaten.

Stupid design decisions geared toward making the game more "challenging"
Time limits (SMB1), arbitrary player lives (Super Mario Galaxy), continue limits, respawn points that time out (Little Big Planet). This kind of crap make me not get into coming back to a game.

Save points too far apart from each other
I will quit a game if, after dying, I'm brought back more than 10 minutes of gameplay. This is one of my most major gripes, and I have stopped playing several titles that did this. Call of Duty 3 comes to mind. On the flipside, games in the Lego series have instant respawns in the same spot you die. What's the point of death, then? I would much rather the player just be unable to die, if the player respawns in the exact same spot. If there's no punishment, what's the point in having death at all? What a stupid game concept.

Unskippable cut-scenes
This is obvious enough not to mention. Personally I always watch cut-scenes the first time, but if I start a new game, should I really be forced to sit through it again?

Too much reading lame backstories
Not every game needs a storyline! If the game is simple, with an arcadey feel, why does there need to be some kind of deep storyline? Game stories are notoriously bad to begin with, so please don't assume that your players really care about the backstory of Pong. RPGs survive on story (from what I'm told), but some genres just don't need one or even a semblance of one. Don't assume that your game's storyline is interesting to anyone, so please don't make it more than a few points (if that), unless the game itself is story-driven.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 29th May 2011 23:40 Edited at: 29th May 2011 23:41
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Quote: "Too much reading lame backstories"

I downloaded Path Of Go from XBox Live, it's the board game Go but it feels the need to send you on a quest to find your evil twin who trained under the grand master but... JUST PLAY THE DAMN BOARD GAME!!

This has effected me in my programming, because now I feel that I have to explain the origins of everything I put in the game, when really no one cares as long as it's fun!
No one playing PONG thought "but why are these bars knocking the ball back and forth? Is the left bar trying to avenge the death of its father at the hands of the right bar?"


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Quik
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Posted: 30th May 2011 00:08
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Quote: "1. Piracy
Of course, number one annoyance is piracy. Sure, it boosts sales & all that & sure we as an industry need to cope with it & sure we need to find different ways of bringing our games to the customer but in the end, it is absolutely appaling to see people in our industry or aspirant developers pirating games."


But then EVERYONE has a different view about piracy, EVEN developers.

and for the record, I am a man.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 30th May 2011 00:30
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@OBese87
Did you 5 star all the cases? Have you seen that depending on your actions the outcomes of certain cases can change completely? That being said you do need to turn off the assists in the game because it tells you everything otherwise.

@Jenkins
Yes in some games the SP aspect is shorter but if you choose not to take part in the MP aspect of the game then you can't complain about longevity. The developers of most games put lots of effort into the MP part of the game expecting people to play it. Fair enough if you live somewhere that you don't have internet access or your internet is not good enough to play online you will feel hard done by, but don't say games are too short if you choose to not take part in MP because 'it's not your thing'. I think it's strange that some people don't include MP when they talk about game length, as it's part of the game too.

I wish more games would include split screen MP. Playing online with my friends is good, but I'd rather have them in the same room so I can lean over and punch them when they kill me! Also now that TVs are getting bigger and bigger, it's not like I have to play four play split screen on an 18" TV anymore. Even when split into four my TV has more screen real estate for me than the whole screen of some of the TVs I had growing up.

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Quik
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Posted: 30th May 2011 00:54
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Quote: " it's not like I have to play four play split screen on an 18" TV anymore."


but those times were great too ^_^ real fun trying to fixure out what exactly my own five pixels were doing... xD

and for the record, I am a man.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 30th May 2011 01:53
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@Thraxas
I only got 5 stars on one mission (oops I mean case! sorry Rockstar )! I will no doubt play through LA Noire again because it's the best game I've played in a long time. It's probably the most enjoyment I've had from a game since Fallout 3. I just wish it would let me get on with it instead of prodding me every ten seconds and "helping".


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th May 2011 02:10
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Quote: "but those times were great too ^_^ real fun trying to fixure out what exactly my own five pixels were doing... xD"


I feel ya. I remember the day my mate got a 26" brand new TV for his bedroom, and we played CoD 4 way on Shipment. Lucky it's a small map.

I will point out CoD is very fun with friends, despite my moaning about it.

Don't watch this if you hate happiness.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 30th May 2011 02:15
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Quote: "I will point out CoD is very fun with friends, despite my moaning about it."

Yeah, I remember playing once with friends and we put Blondie on as a joke, but bizarrely their music fits perfectly with CoD!


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Stormwire
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Posted: 30th May 2011 03:02
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Quote: "Guerilla is the 3rd, there was Red Faction 1 and 2 for the PS2 before it - they're not really that notable though. "


Yeh I rented them when they first came out and I bought them on steam. I know Guerilla is the 3rd but it really is a reboot even though it takes place in the future of the previous two. The 3rd game delivered what the first 2 promised me thinks.

Quote: "But hey, at least we can dream of this"


HAHA very good and true

@Jeku Sounds like your burnt out with gaming? I was like that for awhile. Any game that came out just didn't do anything for me but I got over it after I realized it was either gaming or watching reality tv

Quote: "No one playing PONG thought "but why are these bars knocking the ball back and forth? Is the left bar trying to avenge the death of its father at the hands of the right bar?"


This would have been a good story for the original game Spacewar! XD

Quote: "it's not like I have to play four play split screen on an 18" TV anymore."


Try that with a 12" lol I played Goldeneye on the N64 with 4 friends in college on a 12" tv. It was a blast! One fellas screen was just constant wall lol any time you would see him he was face first in a wall running, ducking and shoot. Needless to say he died a lot XD
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Thraxas
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Posted: 30th May 2011 09:58
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Don't get me wrong, the MOST fun I have had playing MP games is sitting down with my mates: Goldeneye 64, Unirally, Mariokart 64 etc... Now we generally have larger TVS it's much easier to play 4 player splitscreen, so why are a lot of companies not including it?

I'm saying we need more 4 player split screen in games... I'd much rather play 4 player offline DM with my friends at my house, rather than all sort out times to log onto our PCs or Xbox and then get chucked in with randoms... online MP removes much of the social interaction that I enjoy when playing with friends...

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 30th May 2011 11:09
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One thing I gotta hand to Black Ops. Adding online 2 player split screen was a gerat move.

However I just don't like the rest of the game.

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Wolf
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Posted: 30th May 2011 12:55
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Most of my friends concider themselves too old to hang around playing videogames or are girls... man! I miss the old X Box/Beer days



-Wolf

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Thraxas
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Posted: 30th May 2011 13:53
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Quote: "Most of my friends concider themselves too old to hang around playing videogames or are girls... man! I miss the old X Box/Beer days
"


Luckily all of my male friends are as immature as me and are happy to play games still... Dance Central means all the girls want to play too.

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Jeku
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Posted: 30th May 2011 21:09
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Quote: "@Jeku Sounds like your burnt out with gaming?"


Nah, I've been like that since about 2002. Before that I found that I would play games just to beat them, and I wasn't enjoying the process.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 31st May 2011 02:09
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Quote: "I'm in the minority where I want games to be between 8-10 hours. "

You're the majority, believe me. That group of people just consists out of far less vocal whiners.

Business guy and developer at [url]www.vlambeer.com[/url] - bringing back arcade since 1956.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st May 2011 02:57
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Quote: "You're the majority, believe me."


It's true, the majority of people seem to have this compulsive need to finish a 70€ game the day they've bought it, and are frustrated when the game actually has something substantial to it.



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tha_rami
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Posted: 31st May 2011 03:18 Edited at: 31st May 2011 03:19
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Quote: "It's true, the majority of people seem to have this compulsive need to finish a 70€ game the day they've bought it, and are frustrated when the game actually has something substantial to it."

I simply do not believe that substance and length have any correlation. Like stated, I prefer my Portal over my Darksiders, my Mass Effect 2 over my Fallout 3 and my Modern Warfare 2 over anything that would've stretched it by a mission.

I sincerely hope you're being you and thus trolling, though. I can't believe you would feel length and substance are interrelated.

Business guy and developer at [url]www.vlambeer.com[/url] - bringing back arcade since 1956.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st May 2011 04:09 Edited at: 31st May 2011 04:42
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You're right, when I talk about game length I'm talking about longevity.



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Jeku
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Posted: 31st May 2011 04:17 Edited at: 31st May 2011 04:18
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Quote: "I sincerely hope you're being you and thus trolling, though."


Benjamin is a troller. He says something to slam someone's statement in a snarky unfunny way, then leaves, adding nothing to the conversation. Don't mind him, we all put up with him.

Quote: "It's true, the majority of people seem to have this compulsive need to finish a 70€ game the day they've bought it, and are frustrated when the game actually has something substantial to it."


If you read what I posted, I'm against ARBITRARY time extending design decisions, such as savepoints that are far apart and limiting continues. If there's some kind of amazing storyline that is naturally feeding the gameplay, then I appreciate people's enjoyment of a 50+ hour game. I, however, choose to play quality games that are shorter. Games here in the US and Canada cost about $60 brand new, so it's a little easier to bite than 70 euros. Once you get a job you'll have some income to play with and you'll understand


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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st May 2011 04:20 Edited at: 31st May 2011 04:41
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Removed for the sake of harmony.



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Jeku
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Posted: 31st May 2011 04:25 Edited at: 31st May 2011 04:26
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Quote: "I would have thought that as a moderator you'd abstain from making unfounded accusations for the sake of riling others up."


Please spare me the whining and admit that you've been a troller here for years. Want me to count how many threads are about you in the mod forum? I'm obviously not the only one, mod or user, who feels this way.

Quote: "As it happens, I was trolling Rami for the reason that he was trolling others who disagree with him by ridiculing them."


You were trolling Rami's response to me, which is trolling me indirectly.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st May 2011 04:29 Edited at: 31st May 2011 04:42
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Removed for the sake of harmony...



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Jeku
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Posted: 31st May 2011 04:36 Edited at: 31st May 2011 04:37
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Quote: "If you remember he trolled with something about the faith you 'apparently' follow, and yet you seem to be defending him just because he has similar views with you about video games?"


That wasn't a troll and I've already dealt with him about that.

Quote: "If you want to take this discussion further please e-mail me and stop polluting the thread."


This is my job here to call people out if they're behaving like jerks. It's YOU that should stop polluting threads. I'm not going to sit aside when I see someone trolling, so just take your bickering with one another offline. How am I supposed to know if you and him are having some sort of personal grudge match? This forum has thousands of members.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st May 2011 04:41 Edited at: 31st May 2011 04:42
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It's nothing personal, believe me. I haven't spoken to him in a long time but last time I did we were on pretty good terms. I just think his sly comments about those who have different opinions are a bit much, and I'm arguing against those in my own way. I'm going to remove my responses with you since they don't really add anything to the conversation and I'm not in the mood for a pissing contest (which I got the feeling was coming up).



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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 31st May 2011 05:00
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Guys, guys... peace.

It seems to me the only games with longevity are games like Bejeweled and Chuzzle. Small addictive games that all ages enjoy and keep playing regardless of the same thing happening over and over again. I prefer RPGs to these types of games and only play games like Bejeweled out of sheer boredom.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 31st May 2011 10:24 Edited at: 31st May 2011 10:26
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Wolf
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Posted: 31st May 2011 10:48
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CoffeeGrunt is the forums new permanent pinkpony happiness spreader



-Wolf

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tha_rami
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Posted: 31st May 2011 12:13 Edited at: 31st May 2011 12:16
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Quote: "It's nothing personal, believe me. I haven't spoken to him in a long time but last time I did we were on pretty good terms."

Nothing personal, still not - just disagreeing - just like me and Jeku in the other thread. I'm not ridiculing anyone, though, I would just hope they would learn & read & practice about game design besides development too. In design discussions - like these - that would make things so much easier for me. We've got this semi-rapid prototyping tool here and nobody is using it to get better at game design. Kind of a shame.

Quote: "You're right, when I talk about game length I'm talking about longevity."

In that case, the perfect length for a game is the amount of time the design allows for. Games shifted from being pure passtimes with unfair or extending design to being concentrated 'fun'. The length of a game has nothing to do with fun & like I said, there is no correlation between length & quality and like Jeku said, there is none between length & enjoyability.

Whether that cave takes 2 minutes or 20 minutes to explore, or whether its 20 meters or 200, or whether there are 1 or 100 subquests, or whether there are 0 or 1000 unlocks - it adds nothing but pacing.

I don't like the use of pacing to extend length for pure marketing ('more hours! more!').

Business guy and developer at [url]www.vlambeer.com[/url] - bringing back arcade since 1956.
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David R
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Posted: 31st May 2011 12:57 Edited at: 31st May 2011 13:00
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Quote: "5. Entitlement.
Gamers nowadays feel entitled to their games to an almost absurd extent. If they buy the game, they expect everything and they expect it yesterday. If the game is short, they want it to be longer even though an entire design, production & marketing crew decided this was probably the best length for the game. If you do something to combat second-hand sales, you're a greedy bastard. If the patches take too long, your forums get spammed or your website hacked. If you tweet about taking a day off, you're a lazy bastard. The customer did pay $10-$50, after all, so they're entitled to being your boss.
"


This is what people do in any industry though: If they pay money, they want a service, and a good one at that. And I say fair play: When a mass of customers demand things out of a company, they're generally demanding what they paid for etc. If the relationship is the other way around though (with the company calling the shots) the relationship just becomes a giant screw-over of the customer. People have learnt that either they group together and call the shots (and make a noise) or the company gets comfortable and starts crapping on them (not all companies have/would/do this, but a select few have made an impact in people's attitudes). So if anything, this is a defence mechanism. A mechanism that has arisen as a response to companies that jerk people around

Also I can see why the 2nd hand game thing riles people up: If you buy something, most of the time it is your right to sell it on. With the recent proliferation of only buying a 'licence' or the physical product being divorced from the actual game, the games industry is starting to look more and more like the music industry (which instead of fixing its business model, went on a rampage of screwing customers over to counteract piracy etc. instead)

And I take issue with the last line because... well, if you're directly selling games, they pay your wages. So technically they are the closest you'd get to having a boss

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Thraxas
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Posted: 31st May 2011 13:28
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Quote: "Also I can see why the 2nd hand game thing riles people up: If you buy something, most of the time it is your right to sell it on. With the recent proliferation of only buying a 'licence' or the physical product being divorced from the actual game, the games industry is starting to look more and more like the music industry (which instead of fixing its business model, went on a rampage of screwing customers over to counteract piracy etc. instead)"


I don't see it as the same. You can still sell your game second hand, but those people who bought it then have to pay a tiny amount to access online components. You think it's fair that people who give no money to the developers of the game should get to use their servers etc. for free?

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Benjamin
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Posted: 31st May 2011 13:36
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Quote: "You think it's fair that people who give no money to the developers of the game should get to use their servers etc. for free?"


Why not? Surely the online services are provided as part of the game, rather than tied to the person that originally bought it.



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Fatal Berserker
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Posted: 31st May 2011 13:40
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Quote: "Unskippable cut-scenes"

Oh man, what annoys me the most about this is when you fail a level or something, and when it restarts you have to see a 10-20second cut scene at the start of every attempt.

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Cormorant5
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Posted: 31st May 2011 13:50
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Oh god I know. I hate that.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 31st May 2011 13:57
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Quote: "Why not? Surely the online services are provided as part of the game, rather than tied to the person that originally bought it.
"


Yes they are for people who bought it full price and gave money to the developers. Buy the game new and you get full access for free.

Sure it sucks if you don't have lots of money and NEED to buy a game second hand to afford it, but you haven't given any money to the people who made the game, only to the retailer you bought it off. So why should you be entitled to use the online services?

Pay to play is the future... embrace it or find a new hobby... I await with baited breath the furore that is coming to these forums when someone links to the 'MW3 will charge people to play online' article that's all over the internet at the moment...

People will then quote me Free to Play games are the future, as they are doing so well at the moment... but they're not really free.. If you want the best stuff you still have to pay, and often MORE than you would have if the game wasn't free to play. $5 here, $5 there and it all adds up to much more than (insert price of games in your territory here)... but because each transaction is small people don't see it in the same way...

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David R
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Posted: 31st May 2011 14:14 Edited at: 31st May 2011 14:15
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Quote: "Pay to play is the future... embrace it or find a new hobby..."


Unfortunately, said new hobby for a lot of people is piracy and running custom/reverse engineered servers

Quote: " 'MW3 will charge people to play online' article that's all over the internet at the moment... "


I don't think that's what that it is though. There's been a lot of talk about it, but I think what it is intended to be is sort of a 'pro' package, not blanket charging all players for online play

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Thraxas
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Posted: 31st May 2011 14:36
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Quote: "Unfortunately, said new hobby for a lot of people is piracy and running custom/reverse engineered servers
"


People already do that, and even if a game only cost 1c people would pirate it and say it cost too much

Quote: "I don't think that's what that it is though. There's been a lot of talk about it, but I think what it is intended to be is sort of a 'pro' package, not blanket charging all players for online play"


Yes you can still play online... but what's the bet that the package users get early access to new maps etc. So either you pony up and get the package or you sit in an empty server while everyone else plays in First Class...

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Quik
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Posted: 31st May 2011 15:13
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second handing games, movies and music is something i fully support, just as much as i support second handing gloves, shoes, regular clothes, computers, mouses, basicly anything which can be second handed

it has always worked that way, and hopefully will always work that way

and for the record, I am a man.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 31st May 2011 15:20
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Quote: "second handing games, movies and music is something i fully support, just as much as i support second handing gloves, shoes, regular clothes, computers, mouses, basicly anything which can be second handed"

Yeah me too, only I don't think you should get the related or implied services like warranty through a second hand purchase.

Or things like online access.

Business guy and developer at [url]www.vlambeer.com[/url] - bringing back arcade since 1956.
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Quik
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Posted: 31st May 2011 16:35
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If i dont get online access to a second handed game, that would be like not being able to change heat on my toaster i bought second hand.
Why wouldnt I?...
Warranty does usually not come with second hand as far as I know

and for the record, I am a man.

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Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 31st May 2011 18:28 Edited at: 31st May 2011 18:28
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The future of gaming is OnLive. You won't be spending thousands for the ultimate gaming machine with the latest video card but rather spending more money on your internet connection. You play the game on a server that just sends video to your computer (or whatever you're playing on).

http://www.onlive.com/service/cloudgaming?autoplay=force

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Quik
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Posted: 31st May 2011 19:02
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{troll}but the latest video card is cheaper in the long run.. {/troll}

and for the record, I am a man.

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lazerus
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Posted: 31st May 2011 19:11 Edited at: 31st May 2011 23:55
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Quote: "Yes you can still play online... but what's the bet that the package users get early access to new maps etc. So either you pony up and get the package or you sit in an empty server while everyone else plays in First Class.."


No one off payments for packs, there milking there user base for every last penny


Edit seems you can still buy the packs seperatly


http://lazerus-reborn.deviantart.com/
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Quik
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Posted: 31st May 2011 19:25
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Quote: "People already do that, and even if a game only cost 1c people would pirate it and say it cost too much "


for sure, but I personally believe that games are a bit overprised, Especially considering most games are aimed at younger people.

I usually buy every indie game i can find, since they cost like 10$ pergame, which is reasonable in every aspect, I also believe i would buy every darn game i could find if they went for half the price theyre at now x)

i get around 150$ per month just for going to school though, so i guess we swedes are a bit spoiled... x)

and for the record, I am a man.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 31st May 2011 20:29 Edited at: 31st May 2011 20:34
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Quote: "CoffeeGrunt is the forums new permanent pinkpony happiness spreader"


That should be my official title.



Also if I start having to pay per hour on games, then I think it's gotten a bit out of hand. I don't mind paying for XBL, as I just divert some of my XMas money towards it.

However if I had to pay per game for CoD, I'd say balls to that. However I will point out there's companies that wouldn't go along with this, and I'd stick with them. I can't imagine Valve or Bioware doing this sort of money-grabbing.

Don't watch this if you hate happiness.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 31st May 2011 21:47
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Duke Nukem is a moderator now?

I have to say I've done a U-turn on my opinion regarding 2nd hand games and the implementation of unique licenses for access to online services (sorry there is no simple way to write that!). I used to say "GAAARRGH! That is outrageous!" now I say "GAAARRGH! That is reasonable."

The reason for this change of view is that online services have to be maintained, and by selling on a game you don't play any more you are effectively doubling the lifespan of the game and the length of time those servers need to support the game. I don't know how it works on XBox but PSN is free so the only way to fund server upkeep is through game sales. Therefore I think it's reasonable that the developers charge you 1/3 of the game's price to keep the servers running. Would you rather they switch off the servers after a year?


Your memory has been erased by a mod - Your new name is Brian.
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Quik
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Posted: 1st Jun 2011 00:30
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well, it would be much simpler if all shared the same service
steam for example
but i wouldnt pay for steam..
anyway, say all games were on steam

you pay a sum to be able to play online on steam each month
and then share it to the companies


but the reason i dont see this fit, is if you have like games for windows, impulse and steam, and you have to pay for 3 services, and more, and what about those with individual services?
and then we also have consoles


there would be so darn many fees to pay i wouldnt know what i was paying anymore.
and then what about pricing? Because iam sure most people dont want to pay 15$ / month for a shooter game, i barely pay that for WoW, and for wow its more reasonable, since everything is online and the content is huge.
but for a FPS it might be online, but the content surely isnt worth 15$/month.

and for the record, I am a man.

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