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Geek Culture / Professional At Work

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Seppuku Arts
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 31st Aug 2011 14:12
Quote: "So where's your novel? Where is it?!?!"


On my laptop. It's not ready yet - I've had the first draft done for a while...and the second draft, but I've made some major changes since the original, so it'll need more editing before it's ready (even then I know I won't be satisfied).

Quote: "
But I guess they can't be arsed. They just want the save bet of industry experience and would be happy with a slightly above average writer."


I suppose looking at it from the employers' perspective you need an elimination process to sift through the many applications they've received. What applications to follow up and which ones to chuck in the bin. Different employers do it differently, reading through applications is time consuming if you get a lot of them. It's probably why I find the bigger the company the more interested they are in looking for experienced candidates. They stand out.

Quote: "Hey, I may take you up on that, if it does need a plot. At the moment it's going down the sandbox route."


Awesome.

bitJericho
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 14:31 Edited at: 31st Aug 2011 14:33
@fallen one

If you can't find someone to program for you, you're probably not paying enough. The reality is, as a westerner, I wouldn't work for you for less than 20 bucks an hour. That wouldn't buy me insurance though, so in reality, i would probably have to ask for 40 bucks an hour.

I would also need at least a month of work, or a permanent job. I can take a leave of absense for a month and maybe get away with it. So I would need some kind of perk to make it worth the risk.

Otherwise, it would need to be permanent work for 40 bucks a month.

Now, I live cheaply, this is probably way too low for anyone who wants to live in a nice place/house/etc.

Now, I can go work at any mcdonalds store and probably make about the same rate. (i'd work for you though cuz I like to program) (This is after you figure in taxes and insurance). So really, your head's in the wrong place. You're thinking your doing me a favor offering me 15 bucks an hour (this is a guess, I have no idea what you're offering), when in reality, you're paying me less than minimum wage to do the work you want.

Now, I know people out of work will probably take any offer cuz they have no job, but be real here. If they're taking 6 bucks an hour, you get 6 bucks an hour quality work.

It's just the way our tax and government system is setup. It's not setup for outsourcing work at crazy cheap rates.


Fallout
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 15:57 Edited at: 31st Aug 2011 15:58
Contractor developer jobs are minimum £250/day in this country, unless they're taking the piss. Top jobs up to £500/day for the finance sector. So £30 - £60 / hour. Therefore $40 would be a bargain price for a contract programmer by UK wages. You gotta be good though. "I know Java" won't get you a Java job. You have to be prepared to handle a really tough interview.

@Sep - Good to know mate. I hope someone recognises the quality and helps you with publishing. That is unless it's rubbish, and then I hope you come to your senses.

bitJericho
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 16:58
Yeah, absolutely, it's not cheap. $40/hr in the US would be the minimum one can expect to pay a freelancer and expect somewhat decent results. 30-40 bucks an hour is probably somewhere in the ball park of what someone earns in a traditional low-end job before taxes (levied against the employer and employee) and benefits take out the majority of it.

I find most people aren't willing to pay up because their business model doesn't allow for it.


Dazzag
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 17:39
We used to pay *loads* of contractors to write a new system while we developed the old one. This was over 10 years ago (about 1997) and I remember talking to one of the new guys who was about 23 at the time and used to work on Carmageddon (converting to Japanese text apparently). He was on £20k a year there, and we paid him that for 6 months. Well actually we kicked him out the door after 2 months because he was *rubbish*. The top contractors we had were on above £100k a year. One stayed on for 5 years on the top wages. Gotta love it. Really helped with the morale (we didn't earn anywhere near that and yet supplied the bread and butter programming for the company which kept on being the main system in the future).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Plystire
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 19:45
Quote: "Otherwise, it would need to be permanent work for 40 bucks a month."


Can I hire you for that amount?


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
bitJericho
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 20:51
Er, well, no


fallen one
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 21:05 Edited at: 31st Aug 2011 21:07
To answer questions, I have paid coders both more than 40 usd an hour and also a hell of a lot less, it depends on what it is, when I have paid at the higher end, when it has worked out, is because the coder in question was very high skilled, so they did the work fast, bringing total cost down, and two the tools (tools not games, big difference) they was making had value, so its not just the value of their time, its the value of what is being created. Though I would not pay everyone the same rate, it depends on what it is, and the time rates they quote and the skill set needed for the job (note to artists, I am not paying you as much as a coder, I buy their skill from you I buy time, perhaps I am biased because I have an art background so I already have a good skill set in that area, you tend to value things you cant do yourself more). I have also paid Indian coders a lot less, but the skill set was much lower and they took more of my time, going cheap can end up more expensive time wise than more expensive coders, its not the hard cost in money, its the time, both how long they take, and how much management they take from your time, but, not all Indian coders are cheap, some are complete chancers, exactly the same as we have opportunists in the west. They too buy into the same wonderland fantasy I see repeated here, tall tales of coders making hundreds of thousands, recently I had one Indian coder snub a small job, I told him to keep the bid under 500 pounds, and he replied with venom that in the west we would spend that in one night, and he really believed that as well.

Well I know what people really work for, and it doesn't come from jealous office gossip, or wishful thinking. I see some posters have high expectations, and a sense of entitlement, and cry of what the minimum is. That attitude should help get potential marks into University and signed up for that big student LOAN, better hope you can pay that back, otherwise you will be in dept your whole life, in the past someone indebted to work was called a slave, I think you will find nothing changes, its the same today, as it has ALWAYS been, the only difference is the methods are more refined. I can almost see the proud look on their parents faces as they wave them off to University, just think when our child graduates, he will be rolling in money from all those high power jobs, why the bare minimum is 250 pounds a day, and that's just on start up, why he will be on hundreds of thousands a year in no time, for 3 years of extra school, and what, a mere 50k GBP DEBT round your neck, you can set sail for the port of King Midas. Then you graduate and cant even get a job at Macdonalds.

It hasn't changed since my day, back then those leaving the 6th form puffed their chests out with chants of how rich they would be on graduating, how the whole world will be waiting at the university gates to offer them a kings ransom, of course it didn't work out like that, the only difference was that uni was free back then, hell you even got a small grant, the only thing to lose was your time, and perhaps some pride if you fell on your sword, but now its a different story, because debt is very serious, and the amplifications to get you into it rings loud to the unwary and the hopeful.

'Professional' career salary amplifiers, their design, to get people signed up for student loans, they remind me of the ones they used for iPhone development, remember how they got people on board with the fart app, and how it was making 20k a day, developers looked and said, why, a silly fart app makes PIG profits, just think how rich I should be, what me, mr smarty pants, with all my fancy ideas, why I shall be printing my own money in no time. All a media trick to get developers signed up to a new platform that needs product to sell the device. Reality sets in and you are not making 20k a day, you are not even making that a year. All a complete fiction, and its an easy one to do, because, like I mentioned earlier, the public will believe them readily, because they believe want they WANT to hear, believing what you want to hear, and what is the truth are two different things. That's why the blog I told you about did so well, people want to believe it, fantasy pole versus reality pole, the amplified public will induct to the fantasy pole in the wink of a crafty eye, its always been that way, and probably always will be.


Wolf
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 21:13 Edited at: 31st Aug 2011 21:14
Quote: "and its an easy one to do, because, like I mentioned earlier, the public will believe them readily, because they believe want they WANT to hear, believing what you want to hear, and what is the truth are two different things."


You speak more like a coldblooded senator and less like a software developer. Seriously...that sentence would have made a great opening line for some mercenary flick.

The entire phone-software development was fishy to me since it first started off. Suddenly you can make money with software noone ever remotely wanted before just because it is for a mobile plattform.

Sure! Its a great opportunity for young software developers to get established...but come on! Selling some silly apps and simple 2d games and actually making a living on it feels like a big practical joke to me.

I make serious coffee - so strong it wakes up the neighbors.
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fallen one
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 18:09 Edited at: 1st Sep 2011 20:07
Hmm that's interesting that I come across as a cold senator, in real life I come across much warmer, its amazing what an attractive face and a charming manner can do, psychologists call it the halo effect, we are shallow creatures, we judge first on appearances, second tone and sound of voice, third and least important whats actually said. Politicians at one time used to give grand speeches full of well thought out points and arguments, but they found out it was wasted on the public, it was found it was not as effective as a good brass band, some emotive words, and a fine slogan to rally to, like I said, shallow creatures are people.

fpsc versus the world, where do I sign up -
More years ago than I care to remember I had the bulk of a game in the unreal engine, epic games was contacted about licensing, which back then was 1.25 million USD, which seems utterly ludicrous considering what prices you can get great engines now. Anyway, After speaking to Epic I got an email telling me to remove all references to unreal 3 tech from the web site, there was no mention of any game engine, I took it as putting us in our place. When the publisher pitches came back, we had one agree to publish, it really annoyed me the response we got from Epic, until the publisher pulled out, I was in a position of being able to hand over an extreme amount of money, to a company that had its representative present itself with a veneer of disdain. Bottom line, I liked the irony of going from the dearest engine to the cheapest I could find, fpsc back then wasn't considered an engine but really more of a toy for children. I found it wasn't up to creating anything applicable, no matter what direction I experimented in taking it, so it was left. Its changed and developed over the years, it's possible to make something with it now, my sense of mischief still remains, and I would love to use it in an 'unconventional way', release a game, have it do well and then show whats really up the magicians sleeve and break the magicians code.

Talking of fpsc when I was working on the game I mentioned above, I had a web designer interested in game making and distribution, I recommended fpsc, he had never made any game before, so click and play for someone with no experience and cheap for any ordinary person to use, which is what he was, he somehow eventually got a grant from the Canadian government for an educational license of the unreal engine, I thought nothing of it, after all, he was a web designer, he had never designed anything to do with games on any level at all, years later and I find he must of been given more money than what I thought, pictures showed he had an office, staff and the completed educational game had been played by over a million Canadian students, he now has a contract to do a MMORPG for NASSA and has even spoken at the NASSA virtual worlds conference, how a web designer got to be an independent developer in that position with NO EXPERIENCE I do not know, the only thing I can think of is that he had access to my servers and content, and passed himself off as being more than a web designer. Anyway, interesting story on how fpsc could of potentially been used as a large eduction tool for over a million Canadian school children. By the way, if any mod has access to the number of times I have been blocked, banned moderated and sent to the naughty step, any data comments etc, please forward all details to me, it will make for a great story if I release anything worth a damn, even better if its with your own engine.

Job Hiring, Wolf I may have something for you, I offered the job to Cosmic first as he is trying to fund raise for his partners son who has cancer, he has a model pack he is trying to sell to raise money, though I really think his plan is not really the best way of doing it, I think he has sold 16 packs, 10 pounds a time, 160 pounds, not a life changing amount to change someones last year of life. I offered him some contract work with me so he would get a better return, but I think he wants to go the same route and is busy on a another fund raising pack. So I could have something for you, email me if you are open for work.

My other jobs for anyone interested.

AGK, I have some web pages I want wrapped into native applications, Im sure you have some web viewer functionality in AppGameKit, if you got rid of everything that makes it look like a web page you could essentially wrap a web app into a native app. I have an xcode app I had created that does this for the iOS platform, but AppGameKit can do more platforms, anyone up to the job can send me an email, there is a form on my site if you cant find my email.

I have a project thats a snake/lightcycle style game in Unity, it takes time to develop due to complexity, I would like to release a game of this genre sooner, there are C++ open source game/s that are a little similar I could use as a precursor, The original of the open source game/s is called Armagetron, there is also spin off from the original game call TR2N Origins. What I am looking for if is skybox support and the ability to have outer rim walls with transparency, and the ability to set a play list of levels with which skybox and game themes it uses.

If any mods know the protocol for hiring on the boards, please inform me. One thing I thought of if making threads is not allowed, these forums have google ads, nothing stopping someone from buying google ads for this web site, I'm tempted to do that if making paid job threads is out.


bitJericho
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 19:21 Edited at: 1st Sep 2011 19:24
I'd be willing to do internal or external server work/consulting on the weekends for you. If you have such a need or are curious what I can do, just shoot me an email.


Wolf
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 20:05
Should I e-mail you via the contact formula on your webpage?

Please note that I will immediately retreat in case cosmic decides to take that offer after all. His motivations are more important than mine.



-Wolf

I make serious coffee - so strong it wakes up the neighbors.
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fallen one
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 20:28 Edited at: 1st Sep 2011 20:29
Yea use the webpage contacts form, I have some ideas to put across for a number of game ideas, so Ill talk them over, I like to work easiest first and build up to more complex things, my first attempt at developing had me trying to do a big AAA title, almost pulled it off, as I did a number of games, but if you fail you go right back down to the bottom, that's what is good about iPhone apps, you can go back to the very beginning, and learn to crawl before you even think of walking. I am trying to take the next step up now with bigger iphone apps and also the jump to bigger platforms, I have something in Unity, but my word, so many complex things to do, what the coder says often goes over my head, I have to often pretend I know what he is saying, its flattering he thinks I understand the work on that level of coding. That's whats great about fpsc, it does a lot of things out of the box, apply an interesting angle to it and you have a chance of making it work. Send me an email and Ill discuss some ideas and we will see whats possible.


Eminent
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 02:36
@fallen one
UDK is free now, you know.


old_School
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 15:59
I think just alot of people today are not willing to work for things. Everyone wants to press the "easy button". Even marriage etc is suffering in the States because people are just plain lazy. Fallen is right as well, I can't aford to hire someone. People are lazy and worthless for the most part. If I need something done, I want it done right then not 5 hours later. So its best to just do the work your self.

I have no clue how it is over seas in Europe but int he States were I live I have many factors aginst me. !. People are very dishonest 2. Very lazy 3. No skilled workers were I live and many other problems I run into due to my location. Some might say move. Why, I love were I live. I live less than a block away from the old house I grew up in and the people in the area are super nice. Sadly this area is a factory town and the factorys all left years ago. So were left with a bunch of unskilled workers whom are not employeed.

On the flip side, the younger kids around here are mostly just plain worthless. Sorry to say but are youth needs to grow up alot. I probably sound like a old man complaining now but its true. When I was their age I was in the military busting my butt. Kids today seem to do nothing literly. So those whom are skilled workers and are not employeed want far to much money wage wise. I mean were talken a fraction of a % of the people around here are even skilled enoug to work in programing. Training them is not a option. I have no need for general officer person (wife covers that part) and so their is really nothing left for them to do except code.

So yeah I understand Fallen's point completely.
Dazzag
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 17:11 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2011 17:15
Quote: "I have no clue how it is over seas in Europe but int he States were I live I have many factors aginst me. !. People are very dishonest 2. Very lazy 3. No skilled workers were I live and many other problems I run into due to my location. Some might say move"
It's slightly different with us. The vast majority of IT jobs still exist in the London area so if you live the other side of country then you are at a massive disadvantage, and we have plenty of places as you describe where you live.

But, and it's a big but, we have a massive population in the UK for the size of the place. It's like massively dense. I think I read somewhere that even the biggest state in America is only just over half the population of the UK. And most states are seriously tiny population wise (compared to UK). But the land area of the UK is stupidely small. So if you come from somewhere with no prospects for IT (like I did), then you apply for London. I tried for over 6 months to get a job from where I come from, and in the end got a job in a week down in the London area once I started applying for that area. And then I had to move a long way to work there (even move to a different country - I come from Wales). It may not have been the furthest distance you can do in the UK, but it's probably well above average. It was 284 miles. Hmm. Not that bad. You can do it in 4.5 hours (a friend of mine used to commute 2.5 hours each way cos he loved where he lived, and my wife knows someone who spends half her time in France each week) if the roads are good (even without really speeding). Couple in the idea that we have much better holidays than the US apparently (haven't seen anything for less than 25 days a year in ages, although 20 used to be pretty average - I get 20 days and I only work 4 days a week) and it's a lot easier to move away to work and come back pretty often.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Quik
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 17:15
let me put this straight: i have a friend of mine who have been activly looking for work in about 2 years since he graduated: nothing, not a single one have hired him so now he is going to another school to learn something else.

Another friend of mine have been looking for work in about a couple years now (she is a mother, about 25-30 years old)
nobody is willing to hire her either: it has nothing to do with lazyness, its just that there are no jobs.
My daddy is a painter (he puts color on peoples building etc) and he has to go to stockholm every other month to work, since here there isnt anything at all of interest

and for the record, I am a man.

Van B
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 17:35
It's grim all over Quik - if you have a job, basically you have to appreciate it. It's not a good thing, because employers will start bending the rules again. It was only 15 years ago that the UK introduced the minimum wage, before that some people got paid peanuts. In the UK there is a distinct concern about people claiming benefits, as things get worse we'll have more people claiming benefits, less people working, people who are working will have to pay out more, until it's pointless to work unless you get a really well paid job.

It's a horrible situation with no clear solution. Frankly anything would be better than what we have now, communism anyone?

Health, Ammo, and bacon and eggs!
Wolf
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 19:07
Quote: "On the flip side, the younger kids around here are mostly just plain worthless."


Quote: "People are lazy and worthless for the most part."



Is any one else getting a creepy vibe from this guy?

I make serious coffee - so strong it wakes up the neighbors.
http://serygalacaffeine.deviantart.com/
anayar
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 19:23
Quote: "On the flip side, the younger kids around here are mostly just plain worthless."

Whats the age group your speaking off here... I might have to take that personally

Quote: " Is any one else getting a creepy vibe from this guy?"

Im getting one from this thread itself... well atleast the OP. Actually soem of this was quite interesting.

Cheers,
Anayar


For KeithC
BlackFox
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 19:36 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2011 19:37
Quote: "Is any one else getting a creepy vibe from this guy?"


I did, but I figured it was caused from the cup of decaf coffee I drank this morning while reading this thread...


Twitter: @NFoxMedia
Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 19:39
Quote: "Very lazy"


Really? Of the 5 or 6 months I've been in the USA I've realized that people here live to work. Europeans generally work to live (or so from what I've heard).

If ANYONE is having trouble finding a job in their area, they should consider moving to the USA to the silicon valley area. Most companies will pay for your moving expenses. Why wouldn't you at least try? Like I've said before, I'm constantly bombarded with emails from other companies wanting to snatch me away here. There are hundreds of thousands of companies here that work in the gaming and tech space.


Software Engineer - Metamoki
BlackFox
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 19:47
Quote: "Location: Canadian living in San Francisco"


We've developed a special box to mail you some Canadian snow at Christmas time. I may have to go into the mountains (Coquihalla Summit) to get it, but at least you will have it.


Twitter: @NFoxMedia
Quik
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 19:49
Quote: "Why wouldn't you at least try? Like I've said before, I'm constantly bombarded with emails from other companies wanting to snatch me away here. There are hundreds of thousands of companies here that work in the gaming and tech space."


I dont think i could possibly do that: one reason being i have a daughter

and for the record, I am a man.

rolfy
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 21:21 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2011 21:24
The title of this thread is 'Professional At Work'.
TBH I never have seen so many un-professional comments if you believe your the only person capable of doing the job and everybody is just lazy with no skills its no wonder you dont have any employees to support your business, in fact I am surprised you believe you have a business at all with the attitude you have.
Good luck to you with your business and your professional career, I sure wouldn't like to work for you.
But then I am just a lazy no-brainer retard with no work ethic and will never match up to your expectations of me working myself into the ground so your business can thrive.
You need to lean some employee management skills.

BlackFox
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 22:26
Quote: "But then I am just a lazy no-brainer retard with no work ethic and will never match up to your expectations of me working myself into the ground so your business can thrive."


One does not have to work themselves into the ground in order for a business to thrive. My wife and I have owned our business for many years and still only put in anywhere from 8-10 hours per day (granted some times we add an extra 6 hours on a weekend to wrap up a project), and that allows us to enjoy the world outside of work and relax/recharge. If a company works their employees into the ground, then either they need to re-evaluate their practices, or they are only interested in making a huge profit.


Twitter: @NFoxMedia
Quik
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 22:39
Quote: "One does not have to work themselves into the ground in order for a business to thrive. My wife and I have owned our business for many years and still only put in anywhere from 8-10 hours per day (granted some times we add an extra 6 hours on a weekend to wrap up a project), and that allows us to enjoy the world outside of work and relax/recharge. If a company works their employees into the ground, then either they need to re-evaluate their practices, or they are only interested in making a huge profit.
"


very depending: my father has a company, he works alone though. He has to work from around 6:am to 10:pm, not very pleasant.. and he still only gets around 10k€ - 30% on taxes (my mother doesnt have a job, she has a neck injurie (whiplash) so he has to work for two persons.. )

not to count in the scams he gets put up for

and for the record, I am a man.

rolfy
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 23:57 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 00:01
Quote: "People are lazy and worthless for the most part."

I said..
Quote: "But then I am just a lazy no-brainer retard with no work ethic and will never match up to your expectations of me working myself into the ground so your business can thrive."

Quote: "One does not have to work themselves into the ground in order for a business to thrive."

I was being sarcastic, I know what its like to work long hours and I dont need someone wielding a carrot and stick to make me do it. I have employed up to forty people on one project (18-30) and never found any of them to be lazy, quite the opposite actually. We all worked hard because we believed in the end result and knew we were lucky to be getting paid for something we loved doing, I have even seen me taking the budget and cutting my own wage to employ another couple of people to alleviate the work load for everyone.
The generalism of the above statement about being lazy and totally worthless is total nonsense, usually expounded by those who are completely out of touch with reality and who think they alone have a brain, skills and work ethic.

ionstream
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2011 23:59
If you're working 18 hours a day, all that could really mean is that you're horribly inefficient. That's not something to brag about. And dude seriously, we've seen your other posts on this forum about making certifications and little programs. If that's the product of your infinity-hour work days, then I would take a step back and consider whether this is worth doing or not. At the very least improve your programming - you're only damaging yourself further by thinking you're already the cream of the crop.

If you're really good at what you do, you shouldn't have a problem finding a programming job in America. I certainly didn't.

BlackFox
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 00:13
Quote: "I was being sarcastic, I know what its like to work long hours and I dont need someone wielding a carrot and stick to make me do it."


Yes, I knew that. My comment was not directed to you, but just a generalization from our position and being in business for many years. And as pointed out after my comment, the amount of work hours performed does depend on what the person has for responsibilities, etc (i.e. medical expenses, taxes, etc). So barring having circumstances such as the example used, working long hours as outlined by the OP is a choice, not a necessity to have a business flourish.

Quote: "The generalism of the above statement about being lazy and totally worthless is total nonsense, usually expounded by those who are completely out of touch with reality and who think they alone have a brain, skills and work ethic."


Agreed.


Twitter: @NFoxMedia
Quik
16
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Location: Equestria!
Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 00:18
Quote: "If you're working 18 hours a day, all that could really mean is that you're horribly inefficient."


repainting a whole house takes time if you are doing it on your own since thats what my dad does =P

and for the record, I am a man.

rolfy
18
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 00:27
S'kay Blackfox I knew that, it was just that you quoted me.

Quote: "working long hours as outlined by the OP is a choice, not a necessity to have a business flourish."

Exactly! hence I dont see the reason to be a whiny little bitch about it.

ionstream
20
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 02:22
Quote: "repainting a whole house takes time if you are doing it on your own since thats what my dad does =P"


I'm sure your dad is extremely productive, that sounds like a lot of work, and he's probably an older gentleman that knows what he's doing and how to solve a problem. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that that Old_school is not at that level.

old_School
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 05:58
Just reviewing the rude comments on here. Kinda makes me snicker a little at the same time, as I set here writting a player class that is attached to about 6 other primary classes. Whic makes me wonder if some of you have accualy wrote a large game. Not trying to sound rude like the other here but writting code or a big game just does not happen over night.

Also writting something new (inmy case currently) requires flippig back and forth between VB & MSDN. I don't honestly expect most of you younger kids to understand what it means to work longer than 9-5. However, the old timers such as my self are use to working long hours as we grew up doing manual labor based jobs. I'm not looking to win the hearts and minds of the people on here. Nor do I honestly really care. However, its clear alot of you need to learn how to respect others in business and outside of the work place.

I'm reading through these posts and see people picking and grabing bits and pieces of snippets. Ethier you guys are lawyers in training or just plain disrespectful. I'm not naming names because some people have been respectful and have posted good posts. Some of you though, I hope you don't act this way around your parents. Maybe I'm old fashion but I was raised to respect everyone and respect their openions. Rather I agree or disagree its not for me to decide.

You can call the orginal post a rant or what ever you want, it was recently publish in a newspaper. Obviously someone enjoyed it. Also not claiming writter of the year or wroker of the year but its clear some of you clearly need to thik before you post or bash others. I try to pratice the golden rule my self but sometimes I do slip. That beig the case, Ive watched alot of you post on here for a long time and its the same stuff everyday. Bash those whom don't fit into your little click. Well I'm proud to say I don't fit into the "clicks" on here and I don't fall in line witht he rest of the youth on here. So ban me, kick me what ever, I'm personaly done here for awhile. Some of you I'll miss, others not so much.
greenlig
21
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Location: Melbourne
Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 06:04
Interesting discussion happening here.

I am in an odd position with this, too. I have been working for over a year as a designer for an arcade game company (www.laigames.com). It's a job that requires more than just a 8.30 - 5.30 commitment, as I regularly have to go overseas to our R&D Studio and factory in Indonesia. It's a company that wants more than your time, it wants your soul. I manage about six guys, the video-game production team, and have to be constantly monitoring progress, directing, and planning for so many projects. It's tiring, often disappointing, and sometimes, exceptionally rewarding. On Wednesday, I'll be moving to Jakarta for a six month project with the company. After that, I am quitting and making games as an indie developer in Melbourne.

I have had depression for nine years now, and finally am seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. I have discovered how to stave off mental entropy, and build myself. This is achieved by doing what I love, with the people I love. I love making games, I love making art, I love making experiences. A good chunk of my best friends have relocated to Melbourne because it is the hub of independent game development in Australia. Flight Control, De Blob, Spy Mouse, Train Conductor, Puzzle Quest - these are all a result of a fantastic game dev community. I'll be happily living a life closer to the breadline, without the comfort of a good-paying job, to pursue what I love. The ideal, and my ability to act on it, and engage full-time with the aspects I love, is what I need. It orders my universe, and eases my mind.

Interestingly, it is exactly because I was a part of this community that I now make games professionally. And, it was the announcement of App Game Kit that pushed my to finally decide on a time-frame to pursue my Indie dreams. Cheers TGC!

Bottom line to this rant? I do what I love, with people I love. It makes me happy!

Regards,
Greenlig

Your signature has been erased by a mod as it is far too big.
Rampage
17
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Location: New Zealand
Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 06:15
@old_School, what you are witnessing here is a brilliant forum where everyone's point-of-views are displayed for all to share.
If you think that is immature or offending. Then I suggest you grow up.

Regards,

Max
anayar
15
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 06:37
Quote: "Maybe I'm old fashion but I was raised to respect everyone and respect their openions."

Uh huh... definitely
Quote: "In my mind I often think, neither you nor your boss could last 5 minutes in my job"

Quote: "Seriously your rude comments are not welcome. The only thing I see "juvinile" is your attempt to bash others. I'm not blind, Ive seen you attempt to bash others and Ive seen you warned by the Mods. Its posts like yours above that get you mod warnings. Sometimes silence is a virtue."

Quote: "I'm not looking to win the hearts and minds of the people on here. Nor do I honestly really care."

Quote: "On the flip side, the younger kids around here are mostly just plain worthless."


Quote: "Eat sleep and die working."

Depressed much

Quote: "Ethier you guys are lawyers in training or just plain disrespectful."

Oh yeah... thats me.

Cheers,
Anayar


For KeithC
rolfy
18
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 06:46 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 07:19
Quote: "Kinda makes me snicker a little at the same time, as I set here writting a player class that is attached to about 6 other primary classes."

I am not impressed. Your grammar is slipping again too.

Quote: "its clear some of you clearly need to thik before you post or bash others."

Quote: "Some of you though, I hope you don't act this way around your parents. Maybe I'm old fashion but I was raised to respect everyone "

Quote: "However, its clear alot of you need to learn how to respect others in business and outside of the work place."

Your kidding right? after the comments you made above....you astound me.

Ya know..its been your whole attitude and arrogant sweeping statements in general thats provoked the kind of reaction your getting, which I would like to point out is mostly from older members around here who actually have some experience in running a business.
Your assumption that your just dealing with a bunch of kids who aren't even on the same level as you is way off track.
So your a professional right? Is this a legit recognised business or are you just sitting at home coding a game and saying its a business, cos it sounds just like most of the kids around here who believe thats whats they are doing....nothing wrong with that we all got our dreams.
I will say just one last thing then I'll leave this alone cos I got better things to do. If your intention was to advise and help those who want to start up a new business......please explain to me how your original post and the following comments made by you have helped anyone.

Quote: "Bottom line to this rant? I do what I love, with people I love. It makes me happy!"

Thats how its done...an encouraging rant.

rolfy
18
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 07:14 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 07:18
Quik
16
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Location: Equestria!
Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 07:48
Quote: "I'm reading through these posts and see people picking and grabing bits and pieces of snippets. Ethier you guys are lawyers in training or just plain disrespectful. I'm not naming names because some people have been respectful and have posted good posts. Some of you though, I hope you don't act this way around your parents. Maybe I'm old fashion but I was raised to respect everyone and respect their openions. Rather I agree or disagree its not for me to decide."


Nobody said they didnt respect your opinion: we are only saying that what you are doing isnt proffesional it is merely stupid, and a choice from your side, making it a bit useless to complain about..

and for the record, I am a man.

ionstream
20
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Location: Overweb
Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 08:56
Quote: "Kinda makes me snicker a little at the same time, as I set here writting a player class that is attached to about 6 other primary classes."


See statements like that are why I doubt you're even competent at basic levels of programming. "Attaching" a class to many classes means nothing. In fact, you're probably designing it poorly if your class is dependent on that many other classes.

Quote: "Also writting something new (inmy case currently) requires flippig back and forth between VB & MSDN."


That's not a mark of professionalism or working hard. Yes, viewing documentation is important during the software creation process.

Also I would not compare your accomplishments to people on this forum. Many here are actual professionals of the trade, and have made full games by themselves, in small companies or in large companies. Those are true accomplishments.

Grog Grueslayer
Valued Member
19
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Playing: Green Hell
Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 09:15 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 09:17
Quote: "I don't honestly expect most of you younger kids to understand what it means to work longer than 9-5."


A lot of us are older than you think. I'm so old I started playing UO before Banks were invented (it was about a week after UO came out when they had the Bank update). Ah, memories.

Just to let you know. You really should get rid of the adult section of your website especially since you want to make educational games for kids. It's not a good idea to mix education with references to pot and adult fantasy games... even through an "Are you over 18?" page.

Quik
16
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Location: Equestria!
Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 09:41 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2011 09:42
Quote: "I don't honestly expect most of you younger kids to understand what it means to work longer than 9-5."


Yeah well, my daddy is home like what? one month every three months? and even then he has to work. He works so shoey much, the times that he works are really REALLY insane, and you are telling me that because iam only 18 i havent worked at all? i have summer worked when my daddy was still working for another company: we woke up at 6, was at work at 7 am, then worked to anything inbetween 17-19 pm
and considering all< that work is physical... well working just those timers took the must out of me.

I really just want to tell you to: stop being so incredibly naive and please, stop telling us that we dont know anything because we didnt live "back in the day" that is just silly. I understand that it is tough etc etc, but what we are basicly saying is that the original post, you stated that that is how it is "being a proffestional" let me rephrase that for you: That is what it is like, to work for EVERYONE who are in the similiar circumstances: you don't have to be a proffesional (a word which you clearly have misunderstood) to understand that, and to be frank: you work more than you need to.
Just stop being such a douche please.

and for the record, I am a man.

Plystire
22
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Location: Staring into the digital ether
Posted: 4th Sep 2011 06:38
Am I the only one that feels it is a generation's responsibility to leave a good impression for the next generation? What you're doing is promoting poor professionalism, self-absorbance, and an "it's all about me" attitude, all combined with an air of self-importance and a knack for condescending remarks.

Immaturity can be found in all age groups. You may or may not be older than I am, but seriously -- grow up.

If you've failed to understand why people have met your rant with distainful remarks, then you need to find some time in your busy schedule to reflect on your attitude. This world is not about you. This world will continue to move forward regardless of your presence. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can move past the mindset of a toddler.

And how your rant ever became published is beyond me. I have never achieved more than a C+ in any english class, yet even I can spot countless mistakes. I really hope you found a good editor before that heap of nonsense ever hit the press. I say "nonsense" with the assumption that it was aimed to help startups, but it would be extremely insightful if it was published for Depression and Its Effects on Entrepreneurial Life.


~Plystire

A rose is only a rose until it is held and cherished -- then it becomes a treasure.
Wolf
17
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Location: Luxemburg
Posted: 4th Sep 2011 13:17
Quote: "You can call the orginal post a rant or what ever you want, it was recently publish in a newspaper. Obviously someone enjoyed it. Also not claiming writter of the year or wroker of the year but its clear some of you clearly need to thik before you post or bash "



ooooh! the grammar



Quote: "And how your rant ever became published is beyond me. I have never achieved more than a C+ in any english class, yet even I can spot countless mistakes. I really hope you found a good editor before that heap of nonsense ever hit the press. I say "nonsense" with the assumption that it was aimed to help startups, but it would be extremely insightful if it was published for Depression and Its Effects on Entrepreneurial Life.
"


Same here...I really have a hard time to believe him as he claims to work hours as a coder, yet fails at simple english. (I also know he is an american...and call me old fashioned but I believe that every one should master his native language flawless.)

I also googled the first lines of his text. It appears in a few forums but in no newspaper... Also: was it a newspaper or a magazine?

Besides: Plystire's post was one of the best I red here... enjoy your life and enjoy the ride, folks
Oh...and even tough I have this mindset: I did work hard. Not as a coder in a chair, but I had some REALLY rough jobs in a lumber




-Wolf

I make serious coffee - so strong it wakes up the neighbors.
http://serygalacaffeine.deviantart.com/
old_School
15
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Posted: 4th Sep 2011 22:47 Edited at: 4th Sep 2011 22:51
Taking a short break and just reading the above statements. So here my thoughts on your replies;

1. Complain about grammer but most of you if not all of you own a cell phone and text. At what point when you text do you type a english word or a proper english sentance? I thought so, so get over your self.

2. None of you are even close to being perfect nor do you have the right to cast judgment upon others.

3. Most of you I could careless what you think. I'm not hear to win the hearts and minds of TGC. When I post/share, its simply me burning time and sometimes sharing what I consider useful info. No one held your hand or a gun to your heads and forced you to give your two cents to anyones posts. So if you do reply, perhapps pratice a little respect and self-restraint. Just because someone is not "pro" at writting does not mean they are a less person than you. Some adults to still struggle with grammer sometimes, hence spellchecker.

4. If most of you put as much effort as you do into bashing others, I'm sure we would see much better project results. But it appears you need to be-little others to make your selves feel big.

Again personaly I don't care about most peoples thoughts are on here. However, I also try to respect others enough to not post negative replies most of the time. As a friend once told me, its really hard to express emotions on the net. It's also very hard to fully understand people on the net because over 50% of human communication is body language. So you can not phy. see me, so its hard to clearly understand my point sometimes. As it is hard for me to understand your points at times as well.

On a side note, most "super smart" peps are often misunderstood by the general public. Not implying Im going to change history but just making a simple point. Their could be a person on here you bash that is not dumb, just misunderstood or beyond your grasp. Hence the need to pratice the golden rule and truely make a real effort to respect others. I don't know any of you in real life but if I did I'm 100% sure the conversations would flow alot better.

Thats my final tip to this community for awhile/final post. I may return on and off to reply but don't count on it. I'm still working on my 2 major projects and I'm still discussing marketing/sales strategy with publishers/prospective buyers. To be honest, if you guys had major projects, you should be busy as well performing the same task as I am and not wasting your time fighting with people on the internet. Or my fav, trolling topics and bashing people as soon as they reply to defend their self. Not that anyone has ever done that on here before...

Anyway, good luck on your projects, I need to get back to mine and finish writting recipe Classes.
Benjamin
22
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Location: France
Posted: 4th Sep 2011 22:52
Quote: "At what point when you text do you type a english word or a proper english sentance? I thought so, so get over your self."


All the time actually, and I run out space pretty quickly because of it.

I don't really see so many grammar mistakes in your posts as much as spelling mistakes though. Chrome and Firefox have a built-in spellchecker, I'd recommend enabling it.



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Quik
16
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Location: Equestria!
Posted: 4th Sep 2011 23:01
Old school..

no, i give up, you win: you are extremely proffesional, i shall hereby treat you like a god or godess, whichever you prefer and i shall give you breakfast every morning.

and for the record, I am a man.

Fallout
22
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 4th Sep 2011 23:26 Edited at: 4th Sep 2011 23:30
I hope this isn't considered trolling, but I feel it necessary to post this video whenever someone says they could care less ... not to be pedantic, but mostly because it's funny!



Quik
16
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Location: Equestria!
Posted: 4th Sep 2011 23:32 Edited at: 4th Sep 2011 23:33
I love you atm fallout

edit: but i cannot let this come undone! you no joke around with the one and only, proffesional god: Old school!

I must ask you to put the video down at once!

and for the record, I am a man.

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