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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / What would you like to see in DBPro?

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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 18:12
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Hi, I'd like to know how you all feel about DBPro. Patch 3 will be out very soon, so hopefully we will have addresses many of the bugs you reported to us. Patch 4 will be ready for Christmas time and will speed up lots of the 3D rendering - it's a really significant patch!

So what else would you like to see added? Maybe you're still unsure about DBPro, if that's the case, post your comments here so that we can read and learn more about your needs.

Rick
Commercial Director
Dark Basic Team
[Read "The POWER of NOW by Eckhart Tolle". There is no past or future, only NOW!]
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 18:32
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QuickTime support - saves me having to write a driver for it (at some point in the future; QT doesn't automatically let itself be used by DirectMedia)

Commands to return the position of the current music/video being played.
Beams - long trails behind an object

I'll probably think of more later. I'm certainly pleased with DBPro since Patch #2 came out, so it'll be good to see it get better.

Good news everybody! I really am THAT good...
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Mirthin
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 18:34
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I'd like to see webcam support. I'm writing a little graphical chat client on the side and a real-time web cam exchange would be sweet.

But I honestly think that you should focus on fixing the commands that are already out, I'm sure I speak for a few people here.

This has "Fiasco" written all over it.
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 18:35
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Knew I had missed something : Window support

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Mirthin
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 18:37
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It doesn't have that? DB classic did

This has "Fiasco" written all over it.
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haggisman
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 18:42
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Any chance of an update on the terrain commands-to-be? Its not really useful just now, I realize the advanced terrain commands such as scaling aren't in yet, but I'd love to see a more advanced version rather than a simple heightmap made terrain, for example terrains that could include caves and overhangs, I have no idea how you could implement something like this, and it would probably break the terrain ground command . But it would be nice to have and would give endless posibilites.

Specs:- 1GHZ athlon, Radeon8500, 192mb ram, winxp
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spooky
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 18:55
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Some fancy string commands like Macromedia Coldfusion uses, so don't have to write my own or use other people's string libraries. As I use Coldfusion every day I miss some of it's basic commands.

numberformat(x#,"9999999.00") = format a number with a mask

A load of 'list' commands to deal with delimited lists.

So if you had a string

s$="aaaaa,bbbb,cccccccccc,dddddddd"

listlen(s$) = 4
listgetat(s$,2)="bbbb"

loads of other commands to sort lists, overwrite position in list with another string, delete item from list...

A decent 'mid' function

I love it when a plan comes together
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 18:58
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I meant like creating windows and things...

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 19:50
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And how about being able to create interrupts, callbacks, finding the address of variables and functions.

Good news everybody! I really am THAT good...
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CD On CD
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 19:54
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in my priority order:

1) a BETTER BSP Converter. one that is 100% dependable

2) more & better tutorials / help files

3) ability to someday port user-made creations to other systems such as mac, PS2, XBox, etc

the other issues seem to be addressed so that's it for now that i can think of.

United We (Still) Stand
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shallymoo
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 19:59
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I really would just like to see
1. The present problems sorted out.
2. A better manual (i haven't a clue what most of the commands do, or are used).
3. Camera movement, ie up,down,left,right instead of just forward only.

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Mirthin
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 20:17
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CD On CD, 3 can be done, you need to buy an expensive SDK.

This has "Fiasco" written all over it.
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Megaman X
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 20:25
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Well, not the engine itselves, but I would really be happy to see some quality demos for DBpro. That's what we need to the engine proves itselves. If u make a search for darkbasic in www.download.com you will see that, besides the bug problem, peoples are making critics about the demos ( or better lack of them ). That's sad cause it's spread out from our forums to the net. We all lose like that. Peoples give up of getting DBpro, we lose a bigger community with more talented peoples just cuz of comments on the net. Cool, strong, helpfull demos showing it's features would make best. Perhaps u could contract some programers ( maybe even dudes from our forum ) to create demos for DBpro and u could assist them with Media ( textures, effects ). Peoples like mosly FPS and RPG's... a small demo of those games will make DBpro fly high on the net demos

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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Viktor
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 20:43
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I will like to see a file requester. Better AVI support (not only reporting current position, but also the ability to go to a specifed frame nr, and no jerking while playing, because now the movie stops and resumes every few seconds), probaly also the ability to save (add bitmap to movie) AVI, Loading a part of file into memblock (without this memblock header to test if it is a saved memblock!!!), and saving it too.
Quicktime could be a good idea, but I think, this must be licensed. Realmedia we dont needed, because it sux really.
BMP commands to save please too.

-----------------------------------------------------
PC: Amd Athlon 1200/512 Mb SDRam/GeForce2MX Dual Display Video/Win2000, 19" Monitor
ZX: ZX Spectrum 128+ Customized version.
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The One Ring
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 20:47
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better pointers, function pointers, the ability to pass UDTs to functions, and return UDTs from a function.

AMD Athlon 900 768MB DDR
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 21:22
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The actual QT driver, for the player can be written by anyone - just download the SDK. It looks a real pain though...

How about adding some sort of scripting support ?

Good news everybody! I really am THAT good...
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David T
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 21:25
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Porting to consoles? No way I'm afraid.

I love Star Trek.
Especially the Episodes with Starships in.
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gbuilder
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 21:34
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I am impressed with the 'control camera using arrowkeys 0,3,1' command which takes a lot of scripting out, I would like to see such a simple command also for mouselook and mousemove...like 'control camera using mouse'.

gbuilder

AMD900mhz, 256mb Ram, 64mb GForce2 MX400 Graphics card, Windows 98se.
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 21:38
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Highly dubious one this : printer support

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 21:39
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Commands for compressing/decompressing external files

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Rob K
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 22:02
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Featurelist:

- Improved BSP support (Support for Sky Maps / Shaders / Improved Collision Detection etc.)

- True alpha blending for 3D objects, the current GHOST ON / FADE OBJECT combo looks really cheap.

- More flexibility on commands generally ^^

- Terrains should be generated from images not bitmaps, that way we can manipulate the terrains in real time but without the speed hitch of writing and reading files.

- Zip commands would be cool

what is a signature?
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 22:09
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More memory management commands and the ability to speed up loading time. Another "Clone object" (Maybe Duplicate Object) that uses the same memory location for the model and texture as a previously loaded object. This would save load time and memory. (Jamagic has this capablity and I miss it). This would be really useful for bullets, rocks, trees, (basically any static object), lightflares, games like shogun where you have 1000 people and don't want to sit there waiting for them to load.

Oh and this might sound kinda wierd, but someway to make it where you can have objects that always are displayed in the backdrop (multiple z-buffers maybe). -Useful for space games where you want to fly to distant planets or nebulas and stuff (trust me, I'm working on a neato one). Even a faster version of paste image would make me happy on this one .

How about a new BSP function someday that allows you to create multiple BSP maps on a single level (so you could have games like Tribes, Soldier of Fortune II, C&C Renegade, or Delta Force).

More reliable net send commands so I don't have to keep sending chat messages every frame and cause everyone to lag.

1.00 GHZ processor, 256 MB RAM, GeForce 3 64MB, SB Live!, 8 cans of soda per day
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Omega Online
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 22:10
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Perhaps synthetic speech ?
This would be interesting.

Fix the current bugs etc
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crawlin
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 22:11
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volumetric terrains!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are great and allow much more advanced things like caves, overhangs and holes in a solid 3d terrain. If written properly they have little hit on performance.

Please Visit [Dark-BASIC UK] :: 100% Unofficial Home Of The DarkBASIC Professional Programming
Language - db-pro.co.uk
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haggisman
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 22:25
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My thoughts exactly crawlin, though I'd wonder how you would actually make the terrain, i doubt heightmaps would work

Specs:- 1GHZ athlon, Radeon8500, 192mb ram, winxp
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DrakeX
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 22:28
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already mentioned but TRUE ALPHA, there's already nice alpha on sprites, which are 3d, so why not on objects..?

and also mentioned before, some kind of ZIP or archive commands.

something like SET OBJECT TO ENVIRONMENT where automatic collision would be performed on it so it's easy to make things like modeled terrains

more types of auto object collision, 1 isn't quite enough..

i'm looking at yooooou!
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Cpt Caveman
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 22:35
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I would like to see 3ds max files actually working. I would love it if I could import my CS animated characters into my game instead of using boxes and spheres.
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 22:50
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Non-filled boxes (so you dont have to use 4 LINE statements)
Commands for accessing/using .INI files (mind you, no-one would be using my DLL's then)

This is really pushing it : sprite morphing

Good news everybody! I really am THAT good...
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 22:52
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Its time to start advertising too...

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randi
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 23:09
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Better particle commands.

Rotate emmitter.
Start and stop particles.
Set length so you could do bursts.
ETC.

And why do you need an image parameter on a particle?
You can't see it any way.

Also, can we fix the "make object PLAIN"

PLAIN = simple without anything fancy.

PLANE = a flat surface.

At least make it work with either word.
This is PRO!!

Randi
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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 23:10
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A decent help.
The other day i wanted to disable the`esc` key but couldn't remember the command. It would be good to search the help file for the word escape, but instead i spent ages flicking through the manual. (Index was no good 'cus it aint under `E` for escape but `D` for disable escapekey - in hindsight obvious yes but i'm sure people have had this problem with commands they forgot 'cus they the sorta commands u don't use often)
And a proper example for each command would also be very useful, like they got on VB and Borland C++ etc.
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 23:23
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what crawlin said, QT support and:
Vast improvements to the currently useless BSP and Terrain functions. They are a poor excuse....

oh, and possibly an actual BSP convertor? One that takes a .map file and makes a REAL bsp, with lighting and such. Or an actual BSP level editor...

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 23:37
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oh ya, this isn't really about DBP, but I would love to see Lee and Mike participate on this forum FAR more than they do!

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2002 23:59
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GIF support

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dbellis
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 00:21
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i did e-mail lee to add this... but

how about

scale particle 1,value

Damian

http://www.eclipsedevelopment.co.uk/
Succession The Betrayal Developer
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SoulMan
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 00:25
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Since some people regard Dark Basic Pro as nothing more than a child's toy, why not really make them think by giving us Object Oriented Programming? Not only would that give us more programming power, it would speed up development of games. It's would be a great teaching tool.
Classes are no different than UDT's, other than the fact that you can do functions within the class itself.
Plus another big one, OPTION EXPLICIT. This is needed so we can't run around in a Dark Basic Program declaring varibles anywhere we feel like. This is to teach STRUCTURED PROGRAMMING!!!!!! (Yes not many people like me on RGT Forum about my stance on Structured Programming)
and yes I have come to the conclusion that GOTO's can be used, but only for optimizing the program if needed. That is the only reason I would use a Goto and I shouldn't even have to think about using it. Gosubs, I won't touch. Object Oriented Programming teaches structured programming. Of course you wouldn't have to use Object Oriented programming to do something, but if you learned it, it would be a great deal of help.
SoulMan

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Sagan
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 00:28
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Kill all the bugs
Increase the help on the commands.

Beam
Explosions generator
Support for the mouse roll button
Improve the 3DS import, with more help on this.
Commands for compressing and decompressing files.

MultiServer
Windows commands, like Open File
Print commands
More internet utilities ( send mail, WebPages interacion, … )

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 02:11
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User-defined error handler

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Mirthin
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 02:28
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Soul Man, if we want to prove them wrong, we could show them the power of DBPro. Of course, this is what this thread's all about.

This has "Fiasco" written all over it.
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 02:36
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NO! I object to object oriented programming... I much prefer the current setup... just needs improvement in some areas. IMHO of course.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
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SoulMan
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 03:00
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Dang it, this is what I am talking about. People who don't read the entire post.
I quote myself
"Of course you wouldn't have to use Object Oriented programming to do something, but if you learned it, it would be a great deal of help. "
RapscaLLion you wouldn't need to even touch OO if introduced into DBP. In fact, in C++ you don't even need to program in OO. I am only ask that they put it in. What got you thinking that if they put that in, they would take something out that you use?
Yikes! I was doing work with the RPGToolkit, asked for one small feature on a forum and everyone there jumped on me. The head programmer(Actually the guy running the entire thing) said that he thought it was a very good idea.
To explain.
In RPGToolkit, in front of everyline of code you needed a #. I had asked for a switch that you could set to switch it off. Most people didn't like that idea, but I had mentioned in the post that you didn't need to do this, in fact, you could make it backwards compatible so that you could still end up using the # if you wanted to, but no, they ignored that I mentioned it and continued to rip at me.
I may have some radical ideas from time to time, but I am only bringing to the table what any normal programmer would want. My ideas are not to hurt or cause confusion.
And to answer Mirthin, think of this, if we really wanted to shock people, OO would be the way to do it. Think about it, they would never expect OO in Dark Basic because well, Basic never did have OO in it. A UDT is almost OO but you are missing the member functions and protecting the varibles that are implemented in the UDT. There is much more you can do with OO though than a UDT like Inheitence etc...
Please, stop reading part of the post. It's like only reading half a book and saying it was stupid because you stopped half way and never finished it.
"Yeah Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring was stupid because they only went to the Elves and had a small meeting and don't get me started on The Two Towers or Return of the King"
SoulMan

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Mirthin
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 03:08
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I didn't mean to disregard any part of your post, it's just that people keep complaining that they can't shift their titles 'cause of current problems. OO is fine by me, I don't really care to tell you the truth.

This has "Fiasco" written all over it.
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Easily Confused
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 03:28
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Maybe, improved AVI support to allow the creation and saving AVI animations.

But would there a licensing issue there?

"Earth is the cradle of humanity,
but one cannot live in a cradle forever"
Konstantin E. Tsiolkovsky (1911)
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Mirthin
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 03:38
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I like the creation and saving part.

Not if it's your own work.

This has "Fiasco" written all over it.
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Easily Confused
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 03:58
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Dare I suggest, In Built Assembler!

oooh scary!

"Earth is the cradle of humanity,
but one cannot live in a cradle forever"
Konstantin E. Tsiolkovsky (1911)
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QuothTheRaven
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"volumetric terrains!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are great and allow much more advanced things like caves, overhangs "

have you ever played the cave demo? it does that just fine
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Necrym
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 06:23
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A terrain engine similar to the massive terain demo would be nice what we have now is so limited its useless also how about allowing x terrain worlds to load with the same sort of auto collison given to bsps this may be planned into the dbworld format giving great scope for game making and also allows many external terrain modeling tools to be used.

Watch the bouncing cursor - now in 3d
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Necrym
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Also some basic menuing system would cut down programming dramatically. Maybe thay can be in external dll's or somthing.

Watch the bouncing cursor - now in 3d
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Maverick
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What I would Really Like to see is (this may sound rather trivial) Is a FTP make Directory Command! This may sound usless but It is actually very benificial when making a Massivly multiplayer online turn based stratagy game. there has been alot of talk about online games being close to impossible but Turn Based oline games are actually very simple with DBpro. I just NEED a Make FTP directory Commmand!
thanks

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Excalibar
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 07:05
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No light limit.

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