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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Do you think my game is worth 10USD?

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 25th Nov 2011 20:55
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Quote: "Minecraft looks like crap"


Clearly you don't understand stylization. Minecraft, in fact, looks nothing like crap. It has a unifying look that works perfectly with the fictional cube world and how the game was intended to be played. If you look at some of the spin-offs of Minecraft like Fortresscraft you will see that I am right. Despite shaders, high res textures, and updated shiny graphics that in and of themselves look ok, it actually makes the game look rather poor and less believable.

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Slayer267
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Posted: 25th Nov 2011 21:07
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Quote: "But you at least know .fpi scripting. Right?"


I know a bit...

How much should i pay someone to make a new multiplayer system or me?

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gendestroier
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Posted: 25th Nov 2011 21:56
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Rrr... you said enough for your life !!!
eheheh... ehe... you don't need to say anything else, okay !? ahahaha !!!!!

i just sure hope that mental hospitals have internet, coz if they don't "I" won't be able to post anymore !

i've just ran out of my mind !!!! you did it !! you made me crazy !!

i must be seeing things !! that's not possible !!

Quote: "Clearly you don't understand stylization. Minecraft, in fact, looks nothing like crap. It has a unifying look that works perfectly with the fictional cube world and how the game was intended to be played. If you look at some of the spin-offs of Minecraft like Fortresscraft you will see that I am right. Despite shaders, high res textures, and updated shiny graphics that in and of themselves look ok, it actually makes the game look rather poor and less believable."


oww my god, i don't wanna live anymore

the game you pointed doesn't look belivable at all, but it sure look like an exelent game, and you just ruined it with that comment ! well thank you

so you're just going to spit in all of the work that bond 1 made with shaders to our (the ENTIRE community) games look better because you want to defend minecraft !? what the hell ?

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Slayer267
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Posted: 25th Nov 2011 22:10
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Lol... I have a job for you!!!

I need a script that activates every 10 minutes. When it does activate it changes the height of the water from 513.5 to 763.5

But it does it smoothly! This should be a challenge. But be sure that it kills anything in the water.

Make the water these colors
RED=143
GREEN=114
BLUE=56

Thats all i want for now.

And that one death script that you gave me that gives you cash when you kill enemys it gives you 75 cash. The death animation does not play at some points. I was thinking that ragdoll would work but then I thought about the map... I think that 126k polys with water is big enough of a load on the gpu.

So can you do this challenge?

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 25th Nov 2011 22:33
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No, we can't. It's your game that you're getting money for, learn.

Seriously, FPI is a piece of cake. I could probably write those scripts despite having abandoned it for three years, (bloody hell time has flown.)

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gendestroier
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Posted: 25th Nov 2011 22:34
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Quote: "And that one death script that you gave me that gives you cash when you kill enemys it gives you 75 cash. The death animation does not play at some points. I was thinking that ragdoll would work but then I thought about the map... I think that 126k polys with water is big enough of a load on the gpu."


well you can make the enemy disappear after sometime, i can arrange that for you...

Quote: "513.5

763.5"


but... i don't even know what these numbers do !!

emmm... maybe we should ask desert's help in this one too, i'm lost

maybe he knows more about the water sys than us

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Slayer267
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Posted: 25th Nov 2011 22:57
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Oh yeah and when I said when theres stuff in the water that I want dead. I ment the player

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gendestroier
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Posted: 25th Nov 2011 23:17
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that has nothing to do with my dificulty

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Slayer267
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Posted: 25th Nov 2011 23:21
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Lol... This is what the numbers mean
Wait ten minutes and the water rises to
TOP-763.5 is as high as it goes

After about 30 seconds the water goes back to 513.5

Loop

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gendestroier
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Posted: 25th Nov 2011 23:41 Edited at: 25th Nov 2011 23:41
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i know "What" they mean but i can't figure how to use'em properly, i don't use water and i'm not even used with the numeral dimension that it uses, you gonna have to pick someone more used to deal with this water sys to do this for you.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 00:23
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Quote: "oww my god, i don't wanna live anymore

the game you pointed doesn't look belivable at all, but it sure look like an exelent game, and you just ruined it with that comment ! well thank you

so you're just going to spit in all of the work that bond 1 made with shaders to our (the ENTIRE community) games look better because you want to defend minecraft !? what the hell ?"


I never said shaders were bad, I use shaders in my projects all the time. I love realistic games that use shaders correctly.

To clear the air I'm not a very big fan of Minecraft. I'm not saying that Minecraft is better than every other game. I don't find it particularly addicting or engaging. It's fun to chill with friends and what not. It's ok.

I'm simply defending the visual style of Minecraft, because it is done very well and compliments the game's play style.

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gendestroier
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 01:22
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look, we weren't even talking about it, you brought it up knowing the consequence of people missunderstand whatever you might've wanted to point, it was a pitiful and useless discusion, we should be ashamed of ourselves for bringing this kind of off topic nonsense in to a serious place like the TGC forums, and the revolting is that this kind of thing happens all the time even here
so let's end this before it gets worst than this, back on topic please.


slayer ! you gonna have to help me somehow ! i can't make a zombie script a death script and a water float script all by myself !!

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 01:30
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It's not Off-Topic, you're off topic.

Head to the FPSC Scripts board for help.

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gendestroier
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 01:47
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Quote: "It's not Off-Topic, you're off topic.

Head to the FPSC Scripts board for help."


i want slayer to help me because this is his game

Quote: "you're off topic"

how so ? i'm talking about a resource from slayer's game, scripting, and that's pretty obvious, so just stop it allright ? this is quite enough.

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GotAway
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 02:13
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Quote: "look, we weren't even talking about it, you brought it up knowing the consequence of people missunderstand whatever you might've wanted to point"


Speechless.

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old_School
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 02:47 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 02:48
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I’m going to make some obvious points here and I’ll let everyone draw their own conclusions.

1. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I said Minecraft looks like crap but the game play is amazing. That is my perspective.

2. When we design games, were selling our perspective or fantasy to other people. Our ability to create a universal perspective people will enjoy determines if a game will be successful or not.

3. Price of a game is typically figured by amount of hours/effort required to program the game. Often we end up shaping and molding this price to be more appealing and to help us sell more copies to brand our products.

So now we all remember the basics, I say your game is worth $0.00. Why? Because you did not code any thing your self, you used a engine and nothing else you said basically. My perspective about game engines is they are a tool to help you reduce your coding effort. You will still always need to code rather it be a little or a lot. No engine will provide out of box results with commercial grade outcome.

Now your definition of commercial grade and mine may differ. Commercial to me means anything I intend to sell or make a profit. So if I make a piece of software that is not worth anything but I feel it could still be enjoyable, it is given away for free. Free products often help brand my product name and when I do sell a product, people know roughly what to expect.

Ultimately, the concept of “what is my game worth” is a bad question. You honestly know if your game is just ok or it’s commercial grade. If you don’t know, ask your beta testers or a publisher. Ultimately though if you have to ask, it’s likely not worth much if anything, you will know when you strike gold. Also recommend you take the time to learn how to program. Script writing will provide a basic level of logic to help you break into programming but nothing beats programming nor can anything currently compare. Learning how to program is free as well, it only cost you time + effort. You do not need game engines or fancy books. DB has a free version if you like TGC stuff, Microsoft gives away free versions of tools for all languages they support and google is free as well. Great games are made by great minds and lots of programming.
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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 04:04
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Quote: "I think that is just being narrow-minded, have you seen any of the "good games" made in FPSC? I'll think you will be surprised."

I'm not even going to argue with this beyond this post, but just no. How am I being narrow-minded because I hate a game design engine?
Yes obviously I have seen the "good" games with FPSC. By putting quotes around 'good' is enough to say that good for FPSC is still complete and utter crap.

FPSC is fantastic for people who want to start learning game design in general. It's not good for making quality games.

And yes, that is my opinion.

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Slayer267
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 04:07
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We should all make a game engine... The Carnage Engine >.<
I can make the little icons and stuff

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da2020
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 04:29 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 04:34
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Quote: "We should all make a game engine... The Carnage Engine >.<
I can make the little icons and stuff"
LOL you can barely understand fpi and now you're trying to make an engine? You clearly don't understand the procedure of completing or making a game.Before thinking about selling anything do something decent for free first and get off your high horse.
Quote: "good for FPSC is still complete and utter crap."
That is completely and utterly insulting for people who enjoys working with the engine like Wolf for example.
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MrValentine
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 04:34 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 04:35
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tea? Coffee? or perhaps some WATER might be needed here...

EDIT

Can we please get back on topic guys...

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Slayer267
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 04:59
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Okay anyways. There might be some more multiplayer maps coming for the game. I still need to fix this build issue!

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Quik
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 08:12
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isnt it better for Slayer and gendestroier to mail each other instead?


The result of origin.. Oh and ponies
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Hassan
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 10:14
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Quote: "Personally, I wouldn't pay more than 1 cent for any game made with FPSC. In fact, I would legitimately have to be paid to play any FPSC game."



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AbdulAhad
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 16:11 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 16:12
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Quote: "isnt it better for Slayer and gendestroier to mail each other instead?"


^^^THIS!!!^^^

Abdul Ahad

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Dark Frager
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 16:45
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Quote: "my opinion."


Yes, I respect your opinion and have nothing against it, but what you said then was like saying "Yeah fpsc totaly sux dude, I'd like rather watch justin bieber all day than play a fpsc game"

FPSC, isn't a commercial quality engine, but if you put effort into it, you never know.

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old_School
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 17:13
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FPSC out of the box is not commercial quality but if you use good models + reprogram some of it and add in your own concepts. The engine will produce commercial grade games. There is a game called squadron or something posted a while back made with FPSC. It took a lot of extra programming but that game looked amazing.

As stated engines are designed to help you reduce the amount of programming you will need to perform. Engines DO NOT give you out of the box commercial results. You must do some work too in order to make your software. Scripting new fpi files etc does not count as programming. TGC products use Dark Basic language, that all though not an industry standard language, it's still a programming language and required skill in order to program with any TGC product (excluding Apple thing).

Learning how to program is free; it only costs time + effort. You want a great commercial piece of software, go program it. Clicking buttons, dragging dropping stuff etc is not programming. Writing an fpi script file is not programming. There is no substitute for good programming skills and good code.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 17:20
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Quote: "FPSC out of the box is not commercial quality but if you use good models + reprogram some of it and add in your own concepts. The engine will produce commercial grade games."


No it won't.



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KeithC
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 17:22
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Quote: "No it won't."


Care to elaborate on your opinion, or are you just trolling?

-Keith

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Doomster
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 17:28 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 17:38
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Quote: "Care to elaborate on your opinion, or are you just trolling?"

As much as I enjoy and like FPS Creator; personally I think he's right.

Although the application evolves from day to day and continues to offer more features with each update, the engine is still way to unstable to produce commercial quality.

For me, commercial quality isn't only about the visuals, sound and the gameplay, but one important aspect is how stable the game is.

With every released FPS Creator game, a whole wave of "Doesn't work.", "I can't get past the loading screen", "The shaders don't work", "Enemies are invisible" posts flood the creator.

The loading time is another one of those things - people expect their games to load levels in an instant today, while FPS Creator levels tend to take multiple minutes and in some cases never finishes.

I probably don't have to mention it, but I will anyway, the savegames so far never worked 100% and often the player can't play from where they left, since their savegames don't work / reload the level correctly - Euthanasia was a good example for that.

Another concern for me is the memory usage - often, after playing 1-3 levels in one go, the next level won't load properly since FPS Creator runs out of memory and crashes, or stops loading the level, which is unacceptable for a commercial game.

So, currently, I honestly can't see FPS Creator as an engine that can produce games of commercial quality, but if the mentioned problems would be fixed, I don't see why not.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 17:45
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Quote: "Care to elaborate on your opinion, or are you just trolling?"


It's not a bad engine. If the problems could be addressed and the engine were modernised somewhat, it could well be capable of commercial-grade games. But that's more than a few changes here and there, which I was pointing out.

In its current state it's just too slow and unstable to allow games that can compete in quality with commercial games even as old as the original Half-Life, and I'd be surprised if a popular frequenter of the FPSC boards such as yourself didn't realise this already.



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Slayer267
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 17:53 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 17:59
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I think the engine uses only about 1 core. It should use all of the cores to improve performance in your games. Therefore it loads faster and runs better. I have a 3.1 ghz processor when its on turbo boost and it should also use the gpu fully. I'm pretty sure my GPU can handle more then 1.5 million polygons... (I get a 31 fps) but then I can run 1 million with a 59 fps... Alot of games like MW3 use a crap load of polygons. Why can't FPSC compete with them? Because you all have this negative effect on this engine and you don't believe that I can kick butt with some modding!

(Off Topic to Keith)

I busted a pirate here - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=21&t=172932&p=11

He has a torrent thing on his desktop. Requesting ban.

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Doomster
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:02
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Quote: "He has a torrent thing on his desktop. Requesting ban."

Having uTorrent installed doesn't make anyone a pirate - legal things are offered there as well.
If you go by this "ideology", you'd have to ban and sue everyone, that has an internet browser installed, seriously.

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KeithC
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:02
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Lots of performance issues come down to developers, and how they optimize their levels (geometry, scripting, etc.). Using the latest release on an older project can also be problematic. Using only 1 core is an issue with both FPSC and (I believe) DBP itself.

Commercial is a word that is used many times to mean that a game has to measure up to today's genre and framework. Creating a game for educational purposes (for example) could be a commercial venture (commercial meaning "sell-able", without a dollar amount attached to a targeted total net income), without having to have all the "bells and whistles" that a modern FPS has.

-Keith

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KeithC
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:05
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Quote: ""He has a torrent thing on his desktop. Requesting ban.""


As Doomster stated; that's not a reason for a ban.

-Keith

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Slayer267
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:09
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I thought that program was illegal >.>

Anyways back on topic -

I think that if the whole entire community teamed up, we can make FPSC alot better! Even if you only know how to make sounds or entities! You can add those sounds and entities to fpsc. DB Programmers will be the most helpful! Alot of these things would be awesome... Just saying...

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KeithC
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:13
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Adding more entities or sounds won't do anything to improve that actual program itself, per say. Getting to the source code itself would; which is what all those Mods attempt to do. There are also those with their own "in-house" Mod.

-Keith

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Dark Frager
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:17 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 18:18
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But the problem doesn't lie within FPSC, it lies within DBpro.

Ofc if dbpro had more capabilities, FPSC would be much better, but dbpro has it's limits, that's why numerous people have suggested recoding the engine in a different language.

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Slayer267
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:17
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Well why can't we just combine all of the mods?

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Dark Frager
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:18 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 18:21
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Because,

as I said, DBpro has limits and you can't enter more than x and x lines of code.

Incase anyone thinks I'm trolling:

From official project blue thread.

Hello Project Blue Owners,
We all know that production on Project Blue has been very slow. This is because of how much code Project Blue has. The vast features of Project Blue have caused the stability of the mod to crumble do to limitations of DBPro. Now, unfortunately DBPro is not perfect and is certainly not a as flexible as other languages such as C++. I have found that the DBPro code compiler has limits to how large data structures can be (most importantly UDTs), if I were to go past this limit it would cause Project Blue to be uncompilable and unfortunately Project Blue has hit this cap, actually I had to work around the issue to integrate V117 which is why it took me so long.

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Slayer267
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:21 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 18:22
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Thats... I... Ugh...

QUOTE FROM TGC

"Your Imagination is the limit!"

QUOTE FROM ME

"No its the number of polygons."

Oh and about DB Pros limit... Why? Is it scared to kill my HDD? That wont happen because I have 1.750 tb on my new computer...

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:21
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Quote: "That is completely and utterly insulting for people who enjoys working with the engine like Wolf for example."

I'm pretty sure Wolf couldn't care any less what I think of FPSC and his games. My opinion on FPSC isn't insulting to anyone. Every game ever made is hated by someone... It's not insulting.

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Dark Frager
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:21 Edited at: 26th Nov 2011 18:24
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Quote: "Thats... I... Ugh...

QUOTE FROM TGC

"Your Imagination is the limit!"

QUOTE FROM ME

"No its the number of polygons.""





It's called advertising.

Quote: "Oh and about DB Pros limit... Why? Is it scared to kill my HDD? That wont happen because I have 1.750 tb on my new computer..."


No, it's not that. It's just that it cannot handle more than x lines of code.

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Slayer267
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:23
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Yeah but It should be able to stack on top of that right? This is digital software, not a machine, it doesn't overheat...

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Dark Frager
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:25
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But then it would become unstable.

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Slayer267
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:26
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How? Honestly I don't care how complex it is! Just tell me how!

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Dark Frager
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:28
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Look. I have no idea myself, but I presume it's Virtual Memory. Every program can only handle a certain amount of load before it starts overloading and crashing. The more powerful your PC is, the less the chance of crashing is, but then again, the program would need to be coded to be able to handle more memory.

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Slayer267
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:29
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So your saying you have to code dark basic code?

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Dark Frager
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:31
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No. It just has to be able to handle more virtual memory, and don't ask me how, because I don't know.

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Slayer267
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:37
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Okay so would my Computer be able to process more then your guy's?

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old_School
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Posted: 26th Nov 2011 18:37
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Pirating:

I want explain a few things because some of you seem to be out in left field on certain things. Lets address pirating first because its pretty common knowledge how it works etc. UTorrent issue, do you know why and what bit torrent is mostly used for? If you said pirating software, you’re wrong. All though pirating is common with torrents, torrents are used a lot of times for small businesses to distribute their products etc easily to mass amount of people at once. By using a bit-torrent you reduce the amount of bandwidth needed to distribute the product and increase file transfer rates.

Now of course this method is not as common as it use to be in late 90’s/present day. Torrents have become more associated with pirating then proper distribution purposes but it’s still a popular method used by a lot of businesses today. Bit torrents are also a great way for indie developers such as your selves to distribute your software freely and quickly. Finally you should never claim someone is pirating without real evidence. It’s rude and un-professional. What you say is a representation of your business and will affect your future sales. If you come across as a uneducated person whom makes false statements, people will likely not take you seriously nor will they try your products.

FPSC:

FPSC game engine concept is great but the current state is not up to par. However, I see a lot of people using that as a crutch and still refuse to go out and learn to program. If FPSC worked 100% you would still need to know how to program. Why? Because why would I buy a bunch of FPSC games if they are ultimately all the same game? You would not and that is were programming, designing, concepts and a million other things come into play.

I think a lot of you focus too much on one single aspect of software creation. Making the software is only one part of a successful piece of software. Several things like art, concept, design and other things need to be considered. Simply saying “if FPSC was fixed I could make epic games”. Well to be honest it is fixed in a sense. Its fixed enough to do what engines are designed to do. Provide you with a platform to build off of and design your piece of software. You just have to program the rest of your software using the base code TGC provided. Stop wishing and start programming.
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