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Geek Culture / What do you think is the most hardest part about creating a game?

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mnemonic
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 21:38
What do you think is the most hardest part about creating a game?

I think the design is the hardest part, coming up with the idea, writing a design document and a story may be easy, but then comes the tricky part. The game's scenery, music and sounds must be appealing, and maybe generate that special feeling to the player. You must work to constantly get the player's attention. That is the hardest thing in my opinion.

An example:

Have you ever picked up a game, flipped the DVD case over to read what's it about and got intested by the story, but then when you play it you find it less appealing? This might be because the game design is not to good.

The nextr day, you're out for a new game, finds one with a similar story, and you totally love the game. This might be that the design is very good.

www.memblockgames.com
TheComet
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 21:48 Edited at: 24th Feb 2012 22:02
Game design is a tough task, but what really gets me is the media. There are so many models, textures, sounds, music, etc. to create, the code is almost nothing in comparison. For example: My old project Mega Mash Mothers. Each character has over 100 animations with over 5000 keyframes. It took months to animate just one of the characters... Now try making 12.

TheComet

Quel
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 21:54
You grabbed the topic from a really artistic standpoint.

It would be heaven for me, if game making started there, worrying about the story, atmosphere and mood.

The reality is that it's not a picture you have to paint, it's a god damn complex area consisting of many years of experience in many areas.

Usually i love having a half done project, because there is already a kind of working engine to work with, and most of the graphics need tweaking and adding to them, and not creating / coding stuff from the very beginning.

I hate starting new projects, with their totally blank folders and IDE's waiting for the first letters. Fortunately, usually there is a one or two weeks lasting awesome period, when i'm new to the project, and have a newcomer's feel about it. This is the time, when i have the chance to create enough material, which will make me stay with that particular idea until completion.

-Mental Hybrid: A unique heavy story based shoot'em ~40% (primary project)
-CoreFleet: An underground commander unit based RTS (canned) ~15%
mnemonic
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 22:05
Some years ago I was working for a company, making their order system. It was only about creating a standard window interface and a database connection. Done! Sounds easy? Well,, it was not THAT easy,,, but there was no artistic concerns at all.

Game programming is a lot, and lot about artistic parts and not only technical stuff.

I cannot create 3d content at all since I'm a terrible, and then I mean a terrible artist. A game with terrible artwork does not cut, even if the technical part is brilliant.
And then,, I know to less about creating 3d content. I'm reading a book about it. Practise makes perfect. Maybe I find a hidden talent!

www.memblockgames.com
zenassem
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 22:08 Edited at: 24th Feb 2012 22:13
3 Areas that are the hardest for me...

1. Stamina/Enthusiasm ~ What I mean is sticking with a project and staying the course all the way to completion. It's easy to have an idea, get started, code some difficult things, make some graphics, some stand in models... it's another thing to keep that drive/excitement/commitment going through to the completion of a project. I get excited for a week,, and then I begin to fizzle out. Sometimes a new Idea or project seems more exciting than the mundane tasks of continuing with the current project.

2. Organization ~ I tend to tackle difficult aspects of the game logic,, but I also consistently code myself into a corner more often than not. It just gets very complex looking at the code,, and it seems as things grow.. it takes me longer and longer to add to it. I generally wind up unhappy with my code organization and wind up constantly changing things,, never really moving further along.

3. Media/Content ~ I start off projects with patience and a desire to create original, and detailed media. But as the project moves along,, I get lazy. It seems too overwhelming of a task, and I find myself not willing to put in the time necessary to maintain the artistic integrity I started off with,

.oO()Oo.oO (I'm not a real programmer,, I just play one on the Forums!!!) Oo.oO()Oo.
mnemonic
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 22:11
Quote: "1. Stamina/Enthusiasm ~ What I mean is sticking with a project and staying the course all the way to completion. It's easy to have an idea, get started, code some difficult things, make some graphics, some stand in models... it's another thing to keep that drive/excitement/commitment going through to the completion of a project. I get excited for a week,, and then I begin to fizzle out. Sometimes a new Idea or project seems more exciting than the mundane tasks of continuing with the current project.

2. Organization ~ I tend to tackle difficult aspects of the game logic,, but I also consistently code myself into a corner more often than not. It just gets very complex looking at the code,, and it seems as things grow.. it takes me longer and longer to add to it. I generally wind up unhappy with my code organization and wind up constantly changing things,, never really moving further along.

3. Media/Content ~ I start off projects with patience and a desire to create original, and detailed media. But as the project moves along,, I get lazy. It seems to overwhelming of a task, and I find myself not willing to put in the time necessary to maintain the artistic integrity I started off with,
"


Wow! that was good,, I totally agree with ya!

www.memblockgames.com
Yodaman Jer
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 22:32
Quote: "1. Stamina/Enthusiasm ~ What I mean is sticking with a project and staying the course all the way to completion. It's easy to have an idea, get started, code some difficult things, make some graphics, some stand in models... it's another thing to keep that drive/excitement/commitment going through to the completion of a project. I get excited for a week,, and then I begin to fizzle out. Sometimes a new Idea or project seems more exciting than the mundane tasks of continuing with the current project.

2. Organization ~ I tend to tackle difficult aspects of the game logic,, but I also consistently code myself into a corner more often than not. It just gets very complex looking at the code,, and it seems as things grow.. it takes me longer and longer to add to it. I generally wind up unhappy with my code organization and wind up constantly changing things,, never really moving further along."


^ Same for me. I get really excited, dive head-first into the project, and a week (sometimes even only a day or two) later I lose almost all interest.

Another thing I find the hardest is debugging, especially when it's just a small bug that seems to grow exponentially. That demotivates me, makes me lose interest, and it's back to square one for me.

That and designing the media can be a right pain in the neck.

heyufool1
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 23:49 Edited at: 24th Feb 2012 23:52
Definitely motivation/commitment. For me a lot of the slacking and loss of motivation comes from making the media. I can make it through a few completed models then I just get bored of it, especially when it takes me a couple of weeks to complete one fully animated character. I think another problem is doing the same style of media. What I mean is if you are doing a Silent Hill type of game then there is going to be a ton of rusted metal walls, doors, floors, etc. That could certainly get boring very quickly. I think the best thing to do is to make the media until you get bored of that style then move to one that's more interesting.

Basically, for an indie developer, I think the best thing to do is to work on things that either interest you at the time, or are required: fixing crucial bugs, doing the core programming, etc. I often find myself working on things for a project because I think it's necessary at the time, like I have some sort of mandatory agenda to keep (which I don't). I also noticed that I'm occasionally most interested in things that I'm not currently working on, so changing over to that idea might help (Especially if it applies to your game).

"So hold your head up high and know, it's not the end of the road"

mnemonic
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Posted: 24th Feb 2012 23:57
Sometimes, when I don't really know what to do, or If I'm stuck with an annoying bug or something in a project, and when I feel that motivation lacks I Just open up a music, 3d package or simply photoshop or similar to just make som random assets and save them to a folder I call 'random assets'. Maybe they come usefull one day, who knows?

www.memblockgames.com
Kezzla
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 02:22
for me its the 3d media, I am still a novice 3d modeler and I struggle to make good looking models, especially characters. animation is the hardest part of the 3d media for me.

and yeah, those crippling debug days where you just plow through ridiculous amounts of code and still cant find the problem.

I just screwed my main project so badly that after a week of failed debugging I had to start again fresh,which was daunting. but saying that, after spending months working out the structure and processes, it took one day of solid coding (with some function cut and pasting) to have it back up to slightly better than before, and now its much cleaner(some annoying persistent bugs have disappeared .)

that's another one too, getting halfway through a project and realizing that you have a far superior way of doing something that is simply incompatible with your current processes. back to the blank IDE.

Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
DeadTomGC
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 02:23
The Comet has expressed my opinion quite sufficiently.


old_School
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 04:04 Edited at: 25th Feb 2012 04:04
Marketing the product once it is completed is the hardest part for my self. Making the product is not super hard just time consuming.
Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 07:58
Definitely coming up with the name.



Support a charitable indie game project!
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 09:08
yeah... I spent like twenty minutes trying to come up with one...

Diggsey
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 14:29
The concept and the media are the hardest for me, and when you have to stop coding to make some temporary media that looks rubbish it makes it difficult to stay motivated.

Which is why what I'm currently working on is based around stick characters and player-created graphics

[b]
xplosys
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 14:32
Finishing it.

!retupmoc eht ni deppart m'I !pleH

David R
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 15:41 Edited at: 25th Feb 2012 15:44
After having a good concept and prototyping gameplay, 'theming' it and creating an aesthetic is something I find especially difficult, normally because my attempts fail miserably (and the outcome feels forced or doesn't match the gameplay)

I think I've recently found a way around this though. It seems obvious to the point that it sounds stupid, but I've been designing stuff from the ground-up with a particular style and 'theme' in mind (relating the gameplay to the aesthetic and vice-versa). By having them linked together it also creates tons of inspiration for new gameplay

09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 17:11
I think the hardest thing is:
#1. As many people said: Art and Animation. If you want any kind of realistic environments, you gotta have TONS of models and assets, textures and all. Just one good model can take hours to model and texture, then polish and make look good. Repeat this 200+ times for just one level and then you got well over 2 months for a decent level. Just one good looking animation can take 2 hours, then the rigging to do so can take a good hour working fast.

#2. Optimization: Making your level look good and run fast at the same time. Making detailed models, good looking textures, and good looking shaders is all fine but it's nothing without some kind of decent frame rate.

#3. Finishing the game. At first the idea sounds awesome, but to make it be awesome for the next 6-14 months (or however long it takes to make it) takes some real skill and dedication, some of which I don't have.

http://www.talenthouse.com/travisgatlin
You can find my latest work here. Please comment on my work and tell me what you think!
Phaelax
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 18:30
xplosys beat me to it, finishing it!

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
bruce3371
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 18:40
Calling it 'done'.

My shareware game is basically finished, but I keep tweaking it, adding new stuff, changeing stuff (then changeing it back again!).

At this rate, the game will never be released!

The Zoq2
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Posted: 25th Feb 2012 20:59
Comming up with an idea...

I want to make something original, wich makes it really hard
Fallout
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Posted: 26th Feb 2012 11:40
I agree with the motivation thing. If you're an ideas person, there's always something new in your mind and the grass is always greener on the other side.

Quote: "#2. Optimization: Making your level look good and run fast at the same time. Making detailed models, good looking textures, and good looking shaders is all fine but it's nothing without some kind of decent frame rate."


I enjoy that part. Taking a function and making it more efficient can be satisfying. Also taking a scene and figuring out how to cull stuff can be quite cool.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Feb 2012 12:02
Err I hate the motivation think because I AM an ideas person. You've just got to whip yourself to get over it.

Motivation, organisation and media have been my main failures. Motivation I've managed to get under control, unfortunately it does require self restraint.

Quote: "2. Organization ~ I tend to tackle difficult aspects of the game logic,, but I also consistently code myself into a corner more often than not. It just gets very complex looking at the code,, and it seems as things grow.. it takes me longer and longer to add to it. I generally wind up unhappy with my code organization and wind up constantly changing things,, never really moving further along."


Hate that too. I think you can tackle organisation with a strong plan and to be realistic about how you're going to manage your code. Easier said than done because you've got to know your limits and how complicated your ideas actually are.

Quote: "3. Media/Content ~ I start off projects with patience and a desire to create original, and detailed media. But as the project moves along,, I get lazy. It seems too overwhelming of a task, and I find myself not willing to put in the time necessary to maintain the artistic integrity I started off with,"


I'm guilty of that. I used to at times try and start with the media and that just led to immediate ruin. I think the best work around is to keep it simple from the start. Try and come up with a style that's quick and easy to do and still looks good enough for what you want to do and don't be scared to use royalty free media. I suck at music and texturing...so I'll get my music and textures elsewhere.

At least this is what's working for me...so far. But previously...those things were my 3 biggest obstacles.


Jeku
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Posted: 26th Feb 2012 20:08
I'm fairly certain that the engineering aspect is the most difficult, but I'm biased because I'm a software engineer. Surely it's true, though?


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
Bugsy
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 04:26
everyone can agree with me here. the end part. that last bit. that part where everything is "done" or so you think, and it can be played by you, but you realize that there are many more things which need to be done before you can get anywhere close to releasign it. that part where, you've got every feature implemented, and every level made, but realize "what good is it without a soundtrack and voice acting" or "how am I supposed to get someone to make boxart" and it becomes a scramble for the party that can help accomplish your task the fastest, while you slowly run out of enthusiasm. by the time you find what you need, your game is out of date, and newer, better, cooler games are already out.

MrValentine
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 08:59
A:\ this was mentioned on Facebook on TGC's wall woot!

B:\ when did that google translate thing get added?

C:\ well... I think I have overcome the motivation as my two current game ideas are highly motivational... so I would have to say... the most difficult thing for me and a pain in the neck hurdle is ASSETs...

yup the darn content... objects, Characters, and also Menu's are still a confusing aspect for me...

mnemonic
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 12:03
yah! assets, a little confusing aspect for me too. I Read in a book, about 3d modelling actually, but a small part of that book was little about game design and some of it said that after finishing the design document, you should start with getting all assets done, but I think it's hard to know what assets is needed. I can roughly plan A game, writing down the idea, paint the levels and what will go on in every level. But I always, at 'creating/coding' time come up with: 'Hmmm,, yeah, to solve this I need another asset' and must pause, to get that asset done. For the second of all there can be technical issues that you did not think would occour that maybe even forces you to change a little in the base design

www.memblockgames.com
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 12:04
Another hard bit, is squashing bugs, when your code is young it's fairly easy to squash them, but as it grows in complexity coming across a bug can have you pulling your hair out. I'm sure this kind of think hinders motivation leading to, "oh I can't be buggered with it any more!" *throws tantrum and runs away crying like a girl*

Still my bug was encountered at 1am, so maybe *fingers crossed* the answer is obvious and I was just half asleep and missed it.


MrValentine
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 12:13 Edited at: 27th Feb 2012 12:14
Quote: "yah! assets, a little confusing aspect for me too. I Read in a book, about 3d modelling actually, but a small part of that book was little about game design and some of it said that after finishing the design document, you should start with getting all assets done, but I think it's hard to know what assets is needed. I can roughly plan A game, writing down the idea, paint the levels and what will go on in every level. But I always, at 'creating/coding' time come up with: 'Hmmm,, yeah, to solve this I need another asset' and must pause, to get that asset done. For the second of all there can be technical issues that you did not think would occour that maybe even forces you to change a little in the base design"


Thats what concept art work is for ^^

but yeah you design the early content in order to have something to work from... usually in a studio the concept art goes to the modellers who then work on inspiration from the images... and then adding further content is handled in repeat process of the above.

[You need to get a new book me thinks ]

Quote: "*throws tantrum and runs away crying like a girl*"


Why on earth do I have that image of you by default? anyhoo this made my morning

EDIT

Typos Bolded... can you spot them?

Jambo B
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 20:04
Got to be the media for me. I am useless at it. Normally I buy royalty-free images and adjust them to fit my purpose. I estimate that this takes me 3x as long as coding. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and HATE it if it doesn't look spot on. I just can't leave it.

James
Quik
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 20:15
for me i am sure it would be programming: Iam decent at 3d modelling and such, but programming.. I, CANT, GET, MY, HEAD, AROUND, IT.

I took a C++ course and i didnt get shoes...

Anyway, sound could be quite the hassle aswell..


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old_School
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 21:18 Edited at: 27th Feb 2012 21:19
I don’t understand how the “concept” could be the hard part. I also don’t follow the “programming” part being hard. Your concept should be the general idea behind the game and the programming part should follow your programming game concept outline written during planning stage. Maybe its just me but I make a outline for everything in my head, write that down on paper and use the outlines for the first attempt or sample version. From their I can make the alpha version fairly easily.

The most time consuming part for me is researching everything but I don’t think time consuming =’s hard. Selling the product when you’re done for me is hard. Easy to find lots of people wiling to sell the product of course but hard part is working out the contracts etc so you don’t get screwed.
The Slayer
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 21:18
The media part for me is not a big hassle. I've always been an artistic kinda guy, and also a bit of a perfectionist. Well, to a certain point at least.
I'll try to make it as good as possible.
And, I learn new things to get better.
To come up with ideas, I sometimes have too many ideas at once, and sometimes it's the other way around.
Bug fixing can be quite annoying and frustrating, so I'll try to minimize it as much as possible by testing and re-testing the game/app each time after I've changed something to the code, or even the media.
Getting the game 'finished' can take a fair amount of time, and it does require you to stay motivated and get over the frustrations that come with it. But, once finished, there's so much joy and satisfaction.

Fallout
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 21:35 Edited at: 27th Feb 2012 21:37
Quote: "Another hard bit, is squashing bugs, when your code is young it's fairly easy to squash them, but as it grows in complexity coming across a bug can have you pulling your hair out. I'm sure this kind of think hinders motivation leading to, "oh I can't be buggered with it any more!" *throws tantrum and runs away crying like a girl*"


I generally don't have problems with bugs. I know that's a grand statement to make, but it's true, and I think it's because I constantly play test. The minute I implement something, I test almost every aspect of it. So if I added some collision code for the player sliding, for example, I'll be running around the level jumping off every surface until I'm 90% sure it's all good.

Having said that, I do still have the head scatchers. A few days ago I implemented the drop weapon functionality in Carnage, so everyone drops their gun when they die. AI weren't dropping their guns though! What? I took a good long look at the code and just couldn't figure it out. Why were AI not dropping guns but the player was, even though they followed the same code streams? Well, in the end it occurred to me that there are a few places in which they diverge, and one such place was in the pick up weapon logic. Turns out AI were dying, dropping their guns, and their dead corpses were picking up their own dropped guns instantly after death. Bastardos!

But the reason why that wasn't a mega head scratcher was because I played the game for ages after implementing that code, and noticed the pattern after a few minutes. It would've been easy for me to see myself drop the gun, assuming it was working and move on, only to forget the code stream when I realised it was a bug later.

Basically, if you're not horrifically bored of playing your own game after a few weeks of development, you're not play testing enough.

As for the media argument, I think it should be considered just as essential to learn to create the media as it is to code, otherwise you'll just never get anything done. Sure, you're never gonna make media was well as a good modeller, but so long as it's half decent, it'll do right? You can get the game complete, and then perhaps interest a good modeller into joining your project when it's done.

I think some people have a flair for making truly awesome media, but I think anyone with a brain can learn to produce good media. Good media isn't something only artists can produce, in my opinion. It's just another set of techniques and skills you learn through trial and error. Anyone should be able to model a good head, given enough attempts at sculpting it, throwing it away and starting again. True, a great modeller will have a flair for doing it better, but you can learn to be good enough for an hobbiest project. You just gotta take the plunge and force yourself to dedicate time to it, away from coding.

I'm not saying I am a good modeller btw. All I'm saying is, I'm happy enough to model well enough for my own little projects, so I can make whatever I need.

WLGfx
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 21:43
I can't draw and I can't model either. After 15 to 20 minutes of trying something in a modelling package I give up yet I could spend days debugging one function that's gone wrong, after that I'll even re-write it.

Coming up with an overall idea for a game is easy enough, story, stages, etc. I just cannot put the images in my head into graphics on a screen. And some of those images look great.

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 22:05
The weird thing is I do the same, Fallout, but this bug didn't make itself until I made a certain change, seems to arise from freeobjects, but I'm still hunting down the culprit. :p


Quik
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 22:08
Quote: "I don’t understand how the “concept” could be the hard part. I also don’t follow the “programming” part being hard. Your concept should be the general idea behind the game and the programming part should follow your programming game concept outline written during planning stage. Maybe its just me but I make a outline for everything in my head, write that down on paper and use the outlines for the first attempt or sample version. From their I can make the alpha version fairly easily. "


Some people find programming harder than other

likewise some people find math harder than others..


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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 22:12
Quote: "I also don’t follow the “programming” part being hard."




There's no point in responding to this.

I have been in the game industry for a long time and this is the first time I've heard anyone remotely technical say that the programming aspect of game development isn't hard. Just because you have technical design document doesn't automatically make things falls into place, especially if you're developing any of the engines yourself (and not using VB).


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nruser
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 22:17
Any way you look at it, creating the game is hard work, not just with tgc stuff but any other, when dbp or classic was without plugins and stuff it was very difficult to make the game. But over time some people developed plugins to make stuff easy and in a way faster, in normal world when you are making your game alone, then you need to know everything, programming -> rendering, sound, ai, networking, physics, game programming and all the horrible stuff you need to do to make your game good. As for modeling and design parts that part needs to be very good so anyone can be interested to play the game more then half hour.

When i started with 'i want to create my game' i gave up more then five times do to lack of motivation, now i am developing my game for two years and some time, but i wont give up just because i did that more then five times in the past.

Stuff with voice acting is not very difficult if you can find right people, i am sure that it takes some time if your first language is not english, and and you are looking for people over the internet.
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 22:51
Quote: "The weird thing is I do the same, Fallout, but this bug didn't make itself until I made a certain change, seems to arise from freeobjects, but I'm still hunting down the culprit. :p"


Good luck dude. It'll be in that really unrelated unlikely place that makes no sense, until you finally fix it. Look there first.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 23:29
Quote: "Good luck dude. It'll be in that really unrelated unlikely place that makes no sense, until you finally fix it. Look there first."


At first it seemed to be Sparky's not deleting collision data, but managed to get the bug to replicate whilst sparky's wasn't even active and it seems to be conflicting free objects even though every time a scene is loaded all objects are deleted and the arrays storing freeobjects have new free objects in them. It seems when the number of objects in the scene changes the bug occurs. So far I've looked everywhere sensible, so I think you're right the solution is going to make no sense what-so-ever!


MrValentine
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 23:55
Sepp I would avoid using findfree and manually add them as they're prefixed objects no?

Indicium
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 02:32
Quote: "I also don’t follow the “programming” part being hard."


That's among the most idiotic things I've ever had this misfortune of reading.

WLGfx
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 03:37
@Seppuka - My bugs usually arise from putting in '=' instead of '=='. Possibly one of the most annoying bugs. And I've just spent over two days to find just that as well as another three mis-types. 10% coding and 90% debugging...

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 08:06 Edited at: 28th Feb 2012 08:07
Quote: "My bugs usually arise from putting in '=' instead of '=='. Possibly one of the most annoying bugs."


If you always write it the other way... i.e.

Instead of:
if (i == 4)
{
// do this
}

Put:
if (4 == i)
{
// do this
}

The compiler won't let you compile if you put one '=', like
if (4 = i)

You will know immediately and your IDE will show you the error.

Because you can't assign a value to a constant (4). That helped me with that typo early on


Senior Developer - CBS Interactive Music Group
Fallout
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 08:37
Quote: "At first it seemed to be Sparky's not deleting collision data, but managed to get the bug to replicate whilst sparky's wasn't even active and it seems to be conflicting free objects even though every time a scene is loaded all objects are deleted and the arrays storing freeobjects have new free objects in them. It seems when the number of objects in the scene changes the bug occurs. So far I've looked everywhere sensible, so I think you're right the solution is going to make no sense what-so-ever!"


Interesting! Obviously it's impossible for me to help from a paragraph of text, but I'll take a stab and say it's at line 1067.

I use this technique for all my game assets:


All objects have a type, store their own object number, and get this from a function which just dishes out the next one. No other function is allowed to create or delete that object, except its own functions, which helps with organisation. I spend a lot of time in DBP forcing object oriented principles into the language, when they're not really supported, but it does help.

I'll be working in GDK for the full version of Carnage, and looking forward to the organisation that comes from it.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 13:22
What I may do is just assign object numbers manually to see if it is what's causing the problem...if it works I may even keep the free objects out of it. My freeobject() function uses 'until found' rather than a set number of objects to check. And for deleting, I'm using a 'deleteall()' function right now, so in theory, none of these objects should clash because they're all deleted before free objects are assigned.

I use UDT's too, so it isn't too difficult to manage or change code and in keeping on topic, I think UDT's are a great way to manage a project, it's like setting all of your game data and variables into a database, so it's easier to keep track of what's doing what. Particularly useful if you've got a lot of variables to manage. Since using UDT's managing code has been easier.

Quote: "I'll be working in GDK for the full version of Carnage, and looking forward to the organisation that comes from it."


I've been tempted to do the same, particularly as I don't like using object numbers, but instead I've decided to try and learn C# + XNA (didn't fancy learning C++ straight away), never know, if I get smart enough I might port my current project over to it or use it for my next one.


Fallout
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 13:49
You have me intrigued now Brynster. What is the error message?

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 14:18 Edited at: 28th Feb 2012 14:36
For your curiosity, it's very simply:
Runtime Error 7006 - Object Number Illegal at Line 3393.

Replicated when I start from scene #2 and try to enter scene#1 (when items have been picked up). Also occurs when I go from scene #2, enter #3, re-enter #2 and then re-enter #3. Used to occur when an enemy died in #3 and I re-enter #2, but I fixed that by not deleting the enemy object and having the enemy object load when the scene loads. Hence I believe it's the freeobjects.

Line 3393 is "if object exist(pAbil)", which is checking if the 'Ability Pickup' object exists. Now that I come to think of it...this is constantly called within the loop. But, if the ability has been picked up, then the function used to load the object isn't called, so freeobject isn't used therefore 'pAbil' = 0 and that's an invalid object number. At least I assume, I'll test this and see if that is indeed the answer and nothing else bad occurs.

[edit]

Yes, that was it. I feel special right about now. I guess that sums up the difficulty of bug testing, it is ALWAYS something simple you've over looked...at least it seems to be case for me.


Fallout
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Posted: 28th Feb 2012 14:48
You also just proved that an old programmers technique works. I can't remember what it's called, but basically you imagine Fred (in your case, Simon) is sitting next to you asking you what the problem is and how the code works. You talk it through to him, and in doing so, reaffirm your mental network of how all the code work and all the logic flows. Often when you do that, something clicks that you were overlooking before.

Worked this time!

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