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Geek Culture / "we got him."

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empty
22
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Posted: 19th Dec 2003 21:51 Edited at: 19th Dec 2003 22:45
Quote: "Completely wrong. Saddam was in violation of the UN weapon agreements long before we moved in. The US brought this up as a problem after 9/11. The UN agreed that if he didn't do something about it, they would take action. He didn't, and they failed to take action. We did."


What Mr Blix said about this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2966639.stm



Quote: "Saddam's regime was probaly the most brutal government in modern times. It was a place where anyone who spoke against the government was killed, often their death made a public display;"

Well, Saddam's regime was brutal, no doubt. He killed and tortured his own people to save his position and might. Used chemical weapons (where did he get them from?) on Kurds and during the war against Iran. But most brutal regimes... North Korea, anyone?

Quote: "where women were forced to take the roles of inferiors and slaves and arrested (to be raped and later killed) if they didn't."

Unfortunately this can be said about a lot more countries. Since we both weren't there, we can only rely on other sources. Like ythe ones you posted, or like this one:
Quote: "In the long struggle between Iraq and the US, Iraqi women have been the most harmed of that nation's beleaguered masses. Like men, of course, they've lost opportunities and seen their living standard plummet. But they've also been forced into social contracts which they thought ended a century ago.
[...]
As far as we know, Iraqi women were not raped—not directly. But as a result of war conditions ignited by the sanctions, they've lost many of the rights they had"

By Barbara Nimri Aziz, Third World Network, 5 July 1998

Quote: "In the corridors of a Baghdad University, many women students say they now want a decent career before they will consider marriage.
Doctor Bathenal Hilu, head of the psychology department, believes the high rate of unmarried women is, in fact, a positive phenomenon."

By Caroline Hawley in Baghdad, BBC, 6 November 2001

Obviously in some parts, our sources contradict each other. So what's the truth?

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
Arrow
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Posted: 20th Dec 2003 05:26 Edited at: 20th Dec 2003 05:28
Quote: "Second of all, no bloody crap. They were shooting at us under threat of death from Saddam. He forced them to fight us to protect himself. We had no choise but to kill the people who were shooting at us. It's called war-- grow up, it dosen't make everyone murderers. And want to know an interesting fact? This war has had the least casualties of any war its scale in recorded history."
Please, we're not talking about people forced to fight, we're talking about the time we fired into a croud of protesters. And bullcrap about that casualty figure, it's already surpast the last gulf war making the bloodiest US war since Veitnam.
Quote: "Saddam was in violation of the UN weapon agreements long before we moved in. The US brought this up as a problem after 9/11."
Yeah and inspecters and troops saw signs of disarmorment and dismantling of the missles (ooooh, range limits have been extented past regulation yet not enough to get past there own borders).
Quote: "Al Queda had training groups that have been found in Iraq"
Yeah and they were in America too.

@mouse: Yeah and those are some unbaised links there, two from the government and a geocites one. For somereason I don't trust a site that has ads selling a Saddam boble head.

Here's one last fact you may like about this war.

*This war has the highest friendly fire deaths (percentage-wise) to date.


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
TheAbomb12
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Posted: 20th Dec 2003 05:52
sure ill add that...

Quote: "
*This war has the highest friendly fire deaths (percentage-wise) to date.
*iraq has oil
*saddam killed people
*coalition didnt have full UN backing of war
*civilians were killed
*iraqi troops were killed
*coalition troops were killed
*after taking control of iraq for quite awhile, the coalition has yet to find any WMD.
*there were a low number of causalties for the coalition troops
*there are pro-saddam or anti-american/western enthusiasts attacking targets in iraq
*coalition troops are trying to provide aid to civilians
"


Amist the Blue Skies...
JoelJ
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Posted: 21st Dec 2003 23:59
Quote: "Yeah and inspecters and troops saw signs of disarmorment and dismantling of the missles (ooooh, range limits have been extented past regulation yet not enough to get past there own borders)."


the weapons were NOT the only reason for war, it was weapons and SADAM. we had to get rid of sadam, and heck, im glad we did!

HZence
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2003 00:49
That's because you're a brainwashed patriotic American who thinks that United States would be better off without the world


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Ian T
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2003 01:12
That's bullsh-t, and frankly you're just a brainwashed anti-Bush drone who dosen't give a crap about the tens of thousands of suffering men and women in Iraq, and those who needlessly died under Saddam's cruel regime.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
HZence
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2003 01:22
Quote: "That's bullsh-t, and frankly you're just a brainwashed anti-Bush drone who dosen't give a crap about the tens of thousands of suffering men and women in Iraq, and those who needlessly died under Saddam's cruel regime."


yup i'm the brainwashed one, you know it.


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Ian T
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2003 02:46
Mmmhmm .

Okay, that was a tad bit harsh, but I do hate pretty lies ...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Arrow
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2003 05:03
Quote: "dosen't give a crap about the tens of thousands of suffering men and women in Iraq"
Oh oh ooooooooooooh! If this was about the suffering of people then what about the 20 plus countries that the US officially supports that use torture? What about the fact that China has been inprisoning, raping, torturing, and killing nuns and Tibetan patriots for the last 40 years? Don't think for a second that the government cares one bit about the suffering of other people, expespecially if they aren't America. The only time America helps out it when it's finacially or politically beneficial.


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
HZence
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2003 06:19
no, here's what's hilarious.

iraq says "we don't have weapons of mass destruction, ok USA - nor do we plan to get them. so leave us alone."

north korea says "we have weapons of mass destructions and we're still making them, ok USA - and we'll definitely use them if we deem it necessary."

now that is hilarious.


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JoelJ
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2003 08:12
i can garentee you, the USA is watching NK like a hawk watches it's prey.

Quote: "Absolutely agreed. Possibly the most stupid thing. I'm not sure I even want to read your #1"

well here you go:
Quote: "That's because you're a brainwashed patriotic American who thinks that United States would be better off without the world"


you really dont know me at all, do you? i am the one who really thinks that the US is REALLY way into themselves, i dont agree with A LOT of what america does. you have NO freakin right to say that to ANYONE you have never met. and it really pisses me off that ANYONE would say that to ANYONE, when they have NO CLUE who the heck they are.

Arrow
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2003 16:45
Back on topic, the man they cuaght might not be the real Saddam. Saddam dyes his hair, after 6 months in a foxhole his hait would be white. Also the Saddam they cuaght is missing a tattoo on his hand that the real Saddam has.


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
JoelJ
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2003 21:11
where did you hear that? i would really like to read that.

Arrow
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 05:13
I saw in my local paper, they were interviewing Iraqis on there opinions on the subject. Being used to being lied to, they think it's just another American lie. A few of them think that it's Bush plan this an he is using it to boost his support.


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 05:46
If it wasn't the real Saddam, and the real Saddam is around somewhere, he'd have spoken up by now. Making it clear that he was still alive would be a massive blow to both Bush and the USA in general, and ruin their credibility for... well, decades at least. There's no way he'd stay quiet. But there's been nothing-- in fact, deaths have been slowing down. I'm fairly certain it's really him. Fairly.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
TheAbomb12
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 07:29
Quote: "If it wasn't the real Saddam, and the real Saddam is around somewhere, he'd have spoken up by now. Making it clear that he was still alive would be a massive blow to both Bush and the USA in general"


Hmm, no not likly. Remember, the guy must still be trying to save his own life. So speaking out so soon would be hazardous to his health

Quote: "in fact, deaths have been slowing down. I'm fairly certain it's really him. Fairly"


Oh yes, we all know how mouse has access to medical documents and evaluations and can expertly analyize them. Not to mention the countless times Mouse actually met "Saddam Hussien" in person.

Amist the Blue Skies...
Arrow
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 16:31 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2003 16:31
Where would they get the DNA? Not only that but who's doing the test?


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
Damokles
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 17:56 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2003 17:59
Quote: "Where would they get the DNA? Not only that but who's doing the test?"

I suppose it was a group called The Raelians, you surely heard about them before. They handle with DNA

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
JoelJ
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 20:37
this was all discussed earlier in this thread...

Arrow
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 22:37
Quote: "I suppose it was a group called The Raelians"
Too bad they're emotionally unstable and have an override system, heard they taste good too.


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 22:45
'Hmm, no not likly. Remember, the guy must still be trying to save his own life. So speaking out so soon would be hazardous to his health'

Osama Bin Ladin has been urging Iraqis to suicide attacks through tapes places through servants in other cities, followers of his, etc. It's easy to make it known you're around without revealing your location. And it's not like we've got Scully and Mulder over in Iraq right now.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
HZence
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 22:45
here's the stupidest thing i've read in this thread:

Quote: "you really dont know me at all, do you? i am the one who really thinks that the US is REALLY way into themselves, i dont agree with A LOT of what america does. you have NO freakin right to say that to ANYONE you have never met. and it really pisses me off that ANYONE would say that to ANYONE, when they have NO CLUE who the heck they are."



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Arrow
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 22:51
Quote: "Osama Bin Ladin has been urging Iraqis to suicide attacks through tapes places through servants in other cities"
Um correction, Osama has been ralling Afganistan's to attack the US. Also Bin Ladin isn't in a country packed with Troops who happen to control the local Govenrment aswell as having a geat number of former surpressed Kurds who would like to see him hung by his own endtrails actively searching for him.


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
HZence
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 22:53
dude come on. you guys might as well stop arguing because i'm right. how could i ever be wrong? everything i'm saying is totally legit and half of what everyone else is saying could never be true.


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Arrow
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 22:59
Well I'll agree with the North Korea comment (due to that's the only thing I remeber you saying politically), but I still think I'm right.


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
HZence
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2003 23:52
Quote: "Well I'll agree with the North Korea comment (due to that's the only thing I remeber you saying politically), but I still think I'm right."


arrow is the only smart person in this thread

everyone else deserves the needle


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Ian T
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 01:15
'arrow is the only smart person in this thread

everyone else deserves the needle'

You're a sad little humanist . Apparently you truly lack the ability to see humans as humans, with their own views, own rights, and own lives-- you just see yourself and other athiests-with-certain-political-views as the only people worthy of living. Sad little humanist indeed.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
HZence
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 02:07
mouse, just shutup because you obviously have no idea how right i am and could never comprehend my truth.


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Ian T
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 03:45
' you obviously have no idea how right i am'

It boggles my mind to even try to comprehend how any human being could be some full of himself that he would not even consider the possibility of being anything but right. There are some things I am certain of, but even with them I would never attempt to assert my utter superiority of opinion with such sickeningly supercilious mannerisms. Grow out of your superiority complex and you'll find life far more enjoyable .

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
HZence
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 04:16
oh dear god mouse


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 04:22
Scared of more lectures?

Meh, I'm getting a tad too much like Raven

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
HZence
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 04:28
Quote: "Scared of more lectures?"


lol no i'm just clearly joking and you're taking me totally seriously


Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 04:30
Peace fellow friends.



TheAbomb12
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 05:15
yes arrow is the only sane one here

Amist the Blue Skies...
Arrow
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 09:02
Yep, and I've been comited 4 times, how scary is that?

In any case if we all excepted what each other said as what they think is right then things would get pretty dull. If we beleave that others have yet to consider other possiblities, we'll try to explain our points so others can see our views. Now since both parties are doing these at the same time, we get debates and even arguments. I love debate where neither side backs down from, religion and politics are the two big ones. I love nothing more than friendly arguments, having comversations such as these with no hard feelings, just trying to outwit the other. I love this kinda stuff.


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 17:40
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 17:56
I'm afraid if there was a general topic or point to this thread, it took a final breath of nitrogine oxide a long time ago. I don't believe a lock would be remiss, but then again, it's rather amusing to watch

Besides, megaman has a good taste in smileys.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 18:45
FUC*
ITS MEGATON. MEGATON DAMN YOU! DAMN YOU ALL!!!
This is what will happen to the next fagget who callesme "megaman"


Ian T
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 19:11
Megatan, The AUP you read and agreed to when you joined this fourm clearly reads:

'Follow the netiquette rules and be a kind netizen'

And using the term 'fagget' in that offensive manner is certainly not following that rule

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
TheAbomb12
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 19:13 Edited at: 24th Dec 2003 19:14
dosent "fagget" mean cigarette (as well as another term)?

Amist the Blue Skies...
Ian T
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 19:17 Edited at: 24th Dec 2003 19:18
'I wasn't offended... but then again it wasn't directed at me'

I wasn't offended either, but it's a cheap and bigoted term to use. Not that I'm directing the full force of that offense at Megamon-- sadly, our wonderful modern society has made such descpicable behavior quite standard.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 19:35
Yea...it means cigar. I know >_<
Quote: "sadly, our wonderful modern society has made such descpicable behavior quite standard.
"


That's good for you.

JoelJ
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 22:13
it also means a bundle of sticks, they use 'faggots' for fires.
its kinda like 'gay' it actually means 'happy' but people use it as 'Homosexual'

Ian T
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Posted: 24th Dec 2003 22:23
Yes, and now everyone looks at you askance if you recite even a Shakespearean verse that uses the word for its real meaning

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
JoelJ
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Posted: 25th Dec 2003 02:37
...we'll have a gay old time

Ian T
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Posted: 25th Dec 2003 03:00
*kicks Darwin*

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 25th Dec 2003 03:30
lol!
Ouch, mouse! 2 in a row!

JoelJ
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Posted: 25th Dec 2003 07:52
*rubbing poor little butt* that wasnt to nice...why'd u do that? im...just quoting

Ian T
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Posted: 25th Dec 2003 09:43
T'was in a bad humor-- nothing personal

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Arrow
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Posted: 25th Dec 2003 17:28 Edited at: 25th Dec 2003 17:28
Is it just me of does 'ROFL' sound like your vomiting, or more specifically the sound you make when vomiting?


I've lost 25lb playing Dance Dance Revolution, no really!

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