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Work in Progress / [LOCKED] Crystal Development Environment

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 03:04
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Not exactly sure what to put here.
It's a replacement IDE for Dark Basic / Dark Basic Professional, which has been in development for a while.

Alot has happened in the past fornight, which make me just want to close these files and just forget about this whole project.

Now the one person who was pushing me to never quit, is gone.

I wanted a reason to give up on this project, and well it has just been handed to me on a plate. There is no more drive for me to want to do this project, nor anyone to bug me to make sure I keep focus on it.

But I made a promise...
In 40days time, this Editor will be released.
What state it will be in is anyones guess as now all I have is PureBasic, it's help and msdn to help me.

I have no clue what the hell i'm doing, and i don't have a clue why my partner has gone. Just know this is something i have to do.

It was being made for the community, something everyone would like a feature or something within ... catering to each persons coding style.
If there is a feature you feel is important post it.



that is currently what the skin is going to look like, hopefully people will like it. Was going for a Macintosh feel but a definate Windows style still. Plus it needed to be light and very colourful, well that isn't quite colourful but I will work on that.


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Powersoft
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 04:00
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well well... Raven you know where the print screen key is on your keyboard. Suppose i better say well done to you.

And DarkGIRL as well


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Jimmy
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 04:06
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Looks good, except I don't like the x being on the left side.. it's a sin against nature.


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IanM
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 05:03
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@Powersoft - no need for that. Posting just to insult someone is not behaviour we want here.

I agree about the close gadget - it makes me cringe to see it there

Can you give us more of an idea of the features you will have in the IDE?

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
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Powersoft
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 05:19
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sorry Ian you missunderstood me...
i was trying to make a joke about how i use to poke fun at him not posting screenshots. he did so i believe the project and congratulated him on the fact... i too agree the i prefer a stndard layout


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IanM
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 05:23
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I get ya. No problem

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gothboy 101
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 07:30
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looks cool


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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 08:07
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Awesome. Thinking of having separate syntax highlighting for Classic or Pro? Or maybe even project management-type features for Classic?

btw, the style is kinda catchy.

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Sony stole our name!
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David T
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 08:18
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Quote: "Awesome. Thinking of having separate syntax highlighting for Classic or Pro?"


You just don't type DBPro commands ^_^

Raven, this looks great. I really like the styling

I'll be watching this topic - the moment it gets out of hand...

And yes, the X onthe left is a sin against nature

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 09:14
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Quote: "You just don't type DBPro commands ^_^"

But see, that's why I like DarkEdit versus the current DBP/DBC compatible editors. I want to use a variable name that is a reserved word in DBP but not classic, then it highlights it, and my brain short circuits.

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MikeS
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 10:33
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Zero, that was a little uncalled for.
-----------------------

Looking good Raven. I can now finally see what you've been so busy on. The X in the left hand corner isn't as much a problem for me, for it's the same as double clicking the top left of your IE window. (Go ahead and try it, just double click the very top left corner of your web browser and it'll exit.)

Very, very slick. You wouldn't happen to be planning on releasing a PB version as well would you?

Ah, I'm just trying to give you more work.

Keep up the good work.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 20:25
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when i get home tonite i'll upload some 'in-action' screens.
the design above is basically the skinned mode, like Media Player and Messenger though you can activate the Standard Window mode.
that will allow you to use a traditional menu and titlebar system.

as far as features go, well i'm not going to say.
it will have the standard ide stock features, anything more i'm going to keep quiet about.

the next week i'm purely spending on the user interface, trying to get it all working and skinned correctly before re-writing the framework around the new skined functions.

as for a PB version, maybe.
that's the best answer your going to get really.


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Van B
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 20:41
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Working with scripts can be a pain in the a.. - how about if you had syntax highlighting, but extension specific, and you could make your own highlighting setups for your own file formats.

Like you'd have your main script engine as a DBA with it's layout settings, then some of your own script files with their own layout settings in other windows. When working on vanmesh, a lot of the work is done through scripts, and using notepad is not ideal, an IDE that allowed you to have whatever file open and formatted would be great.

Something else that would help, is media management - like a little Explorer style file browser where you could copy or move files, view bitmaps in a thumbnail, preview models and sounds, and also change the texture files in .X files without affecting anything else.


Van-B


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Powersoft
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 01:57
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thats a good idea van


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 03:26 Edited at: 9th Sep 2004 03:28
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alright, added to the list

here are the shots i said i'd sort out.







they're edited up rather than screenshots because all you'd get from my desktop is my wallpaper really cause of how i have it setup.

right now alot of things are 'set' sizes for testing purposes.
even more over, ignore the build/compile values because i hand edited the file which contains that information to make sure it worked.
The tabs are the same cause they don't actually work (again testing purposes)


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DARKGirl
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 07:48
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(Sigh) Raven, I never quit the project, I just left the IRC scene because some people can’t make up their mind on who they want as an OP. I am just tired of all the drama that goes on in there.
Anyway, I am STILL the leader of this project, and I am here to tell everyone that we will NOT be releasing any of the features as of yet. I thank you Raven for not spilling everything while I was away. Haven't I told you that I never quit any of my projects? This IDE will be finished, because all the other ones I have tried have one or more of these problems:

1. Interface is too bulky to work with
2. Loading times are ridiculous
3. Not compatible with major DBP upgrades
4. Missing key features

Those problems have led me to think, "If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself." Which is why I have chosen to team up with Raven to make an IDE the way it’s SUPPOSED to be made, with all the features to boot.
If you would like to see a feature in this IDE, please be sure to e-mail me at darkgirl.auror@gmail.com. I would love to hear what you have to say.

I did not want to post until the project was finished, but since *someone* (who shall remain nameless) decided it was OK to make a thread about the project, I think this is the best time than any to make myself known. BTW, for those that do not know me from the IRC scene, my name is Denise, and I have been using DBP ever since it was released. I have been around long before that though. Do any of you still remember the $1000.00 license fee they were going to charge to sell your games you made in DBP commercially?


I create games only to test my imagination's limits!
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empty
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 08:02
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Quote: " If you would like to see a feature in this IDE, please be sure to e-mail me at darkgirl.auror@gmail.com. I would love to hear what you have to say."

Be able to handle multiple source codes (#includes), but I think I mentioned that already.



Look, and I'm not even commenting:
Quote: "RavenStudio Co., Ltd."

Although I could.

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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 08:13
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Ltd means Limited.

Looks good so far, I'd like to see this completed . Nice to see a code snippet of mine there ... and Doom 4 .

Isn't it? Wasn't it? Marvellous!
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 12:45
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DarkGirl,

Let me know if you want this thread locked or deleted so you start a proper one when your ready. Your program looks really good and it be a shame to have this as the way it was itroduced to the community.

let me know
I will leave this as is for now.


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DARKGirl
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 15:58
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Mr. Rustler,

Thank you so much for giving me that option, but I would like to leave it up for now, for the sake of what my partner has already posted...but I would like to make a request. Could you please remove the posts that have nothing to do with this project? Mine included. I do not want this thread to become cluttered with nonsense, rather I would like it to become a place for those that have taken interest in this IDE's progress, and would like to make suggestions/comments pertaining to it.


I create games only to test my imagination's limits!
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David T
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 16:10
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Done, while I was passing Hope you don't mind me stealing your thunder CR

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IanM
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 16:17
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I've just used a rather sharp knife to prune all off-topic posts from this thread - I will continue to do so if needed.


DARKGirl & Raven:
You need to agree between yourselfs how you are going to handle the ongoing development here.

I'm assuming that any problems so far are just misunderstandings, coz I really want to see this editor in action

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 16:51
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Heh, yeah Hamish... a few days ago I saw that spoof thread on Doom4.
was looking through my old code snippets and found yours for elasticity, edited it up with some IK routines.
The result is the 'spoof' known as doom4 which will be shipped as an example workspace.

Should show the programmers how to effectively use the workspace and features planned as well as give them a very quirky game to play.

Cheers David for cleaning up the thread, hopefully some of you guys can keep an eye on it for us.

heh an Ian trust me this isn't the first *bump* we've come across, i've been putting together a list of interesting facts for the tip of the day message.


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Dave J
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 16:52 Edited at: 9th Sep 2004 16:54
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Lol, I just saw this post and thought to myself "Excellent, there's bound to be some flaming in there... time to take action!", only to find I'd been beaten to it by about 10 other mods lol.

-Exeat... still fragless.


The screenshots look awesome and it sounds like it'll be great, good work.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 20:14
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Hey, Raven, maybe you could start another thread to get people to suggest a tip of the day, then you would have a whole range of stuff, and maybe not just the things that you think of most. Just a thought, hopefully wouldn't result in a flame-fest.

Isn't it? Wasn't it? Marvellous!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 22:04
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once it is closer to release then i don't see why not.
for now though more interesting in useful features which people would find interesting programming wise.

this can extend into additional commands you believe should be part of the dbp language as default.

there are no promises to what will be included but everything will be looked into and will be added at some point.


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Van B
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 01:19
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You've probably considered these already, but...

A code formatter, like automatic condition and loop indenting - that would make my day, nothing worse than trying to debug badly formatted code.

Condition analysis, like if it could analyse the code and check for missing or extra endifs - again this is a debugging tool, but I'm hankering here .

System summary, like when you compile and run, if it takes a note of free memory etc, then does that again when running, and when closing the compiled exe - it would be handy because it'd tell you how cleanly your program exits, might spur more people on to exit their stuff cleanly.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
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DARKGirl
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 02:00
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Quote: "System summary, like when you compile and run, if it takes a note of free memory etc, then does that again when running, and when closing the compiled exe - it would be handy because it'd tell you how cleanly your program exits, might spur more people on to exit their stuff cleanly."


That is a *very* good idea, Van B. You can be sure to see that feature in the IDE. When the IDE is very close to completion, I will personally post a list of all the features. I do not want to post anything now because if we fail to implement that feature (highly unlikely, but...) or we decide to not implement it, I would not want to get anyone's hopes up. I am sure you all understand. I wanted to thank everyone for their support on this project. And remember, your suggestions will make this IDE even better!


I create games only to test my imagination's limits!
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 02:15
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options for:

Option Explicit
Option Strict

A repository for non plugin dlls (ones that need to be in the game exe dir) where the ide would let you pick and choose ones to include in a new/current project. The IDE could make copies of the dll's chosen and copy them to the project dir, and register them with windows if necessary. -sort of like an Include but for dlls, similar to a VS project reference.


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DARKGirl
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 03:44
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Quote: "Option Explicit
Option Strict"


Apparently, both of those do the exact same thing...had me confused for a moment ot two. I think I would use 'Option Explicit'. Raven was wondeing why anyone would want that feaure for a BASIC-type language, but I told him that it would force users (they would have to activate it, of course. Its not on by default) to create neat code.


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empty
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 03:56 Edited at: 10th Sep 2004 04:01
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From what I understand, Option Explicit means you have to declare a variable before you can use it. Option Strict disallows automatic type conversion when data loss could occur, like


Although IMHO if you have something like Option Strict you'd need type conversion functions like Integer() and so on as well.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 03:57
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They dont do the same thing, but come to think of it dbp already throws cast errors on implicit type conversions so Option Strict isnt really necessary. Option Explicit forces you to declare all of variables, instead of letting misspelled vars slide in as 0 or "", and without having to nest your variables in a udt which will catch spelling errors. I dont know what Ravens been telling you.


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DARKGirl
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 04:05
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Yeah, I do not think I will be adding Option Strict, unless there is a high need for it. If you believe that you would use something like that, I shall put it in the to-do list.


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Peter H
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 05:13
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i know this may be asking alot but if you could add something where you could load multiple models and move them around in a "blank" enviroment...and then when you are done it would tell you the exact position of the objects that you positioned ...in DBPro terms of course...

this way you could load op different models(possibly levels?) and see how they compare to each other scale-wise...and maybe do some level positioning...

i hope that made sense

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 06:17
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Peter, there are problably dbp programs already out there that do that, or you could easily write one, that writes the data to a file for use later.


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DARKGirl
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 08:55
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Peter,
I would be more than happy to grant your request, as I have found that it is rather difficult to place things in 3D space when you cannot actually see what you are doing until you compile the program.


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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 16:51
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Raven and DARKGirl, judging by the screenies this IDE looks very impressive! I like how it displays the variables on the right side in a very organized manner

Option Explicit is a great idea--- not only to help us coders produce cleaner code, but to help us avoid variable-name errors for large projects. I know I've had seemingly nasty problems in the past when the solution was a simple typo with one of my variables.

Good work!

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adr
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I like it - I *really* like the look of the IDE. Without the right-hand pane it looks very clean, with nice round edges I also like the "object inspector" style tool you've provided there on the RHS.

I ,for one, would download this the very instant it was released.... wether I continue to use it is another matter


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Vues3d on Kalimee
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 21:25
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First of all I have to say that the editor looks really cool... & seems that it will have many interesting features.

Is there a way to include a feature that will change all your variables text style when you write the code? (OK. I explain it in an example)...

I wrote down on code:

label1$="Hello"
Label2$="Great idea"
lAbel4$="Good"

so now, while coding, If in a routine I will write "Label1$" instead of "label1$", all the variables that was called "label1$" will change in "Label1$" (if you are familiar with VB you should understand what I mean)... this feature seems a bit dumb, but I found it very useful because if you write a variable & you write it wrong, this feature can prevent the error because when you'll look to the same varaible & it hasn't changed, you immediately recognize that you wrote it in a wrong way.

Guido
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Phaelax
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 21:45
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I just kinda skimmed over this thread, but can you open multiple files in the same window?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 22:39
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As i've noticed this request place quite a number of times so far, i'll take the time to explain about the File System.

Now this has been a point of turmoil during development simply for the fact that both myself and DarkGirl have extremely opposite coding styles.

Although this means that development keep grinding to a halt as we argue fiercely over what should happen with a particular feature and how to impliment it, this will end up doing nothing but benifit the end-user.
Simply because you will have tools for whatever you coding style is to help you along the way.

Because our coding style vary so dramatically though this means that there are going to be some very familiar and wanted tools for people who code in single files, and some well thought through management systems for multiple file coders.

Hopefully that has answered the question (without giving anything away warrenting DarkGirl to fly back to the UK and throttling me with my cable line)


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 11th Sep 2004 09:36
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Back on course now


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DARKGirl
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Posted: 11th Sep 2004 12:12 Edited at: 11th Sep 2004 12:13
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Raven and I are going to create a library of special DBP commands that will be shipped with this IDE. We have a few good ideas, but I would like to hear what the community wants. One of my favourite commands we are going to implement is the Mid() function. I feel that the standard Mid$ command is far too limited for my liking, so I decided that its time to make a Mid() that parses text even further. (The way it was supposed to be done in the first place (my personal opinion)).

Usage:
Mid(String$, StartPosition, Length)

Definition:
Extracts a string of specified 'Length' from the given 'String$'. 'StartPosition' specifies which character position to start extracting from. 'Length' specifies how many characters from that position you want to extract.

Example:
Mid("Denise", 2, 3) ; Result will be "eni".

I would like you to provide the usage, definition, and an example (like the example above). I am not making any promises, because the function may be too difficult to implement, but I promise you that I will do my best.

Thank you in advance.


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JeBuS
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Posted: 11th Sep 2004 14:13
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Wouldn't mind the ability to handle bits instead of bytes for a few special cases. It's no big thing, but certainly I wouldn't mind it.


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DARKGirl
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Posted: 12th Sep 2004 02:37
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Could someone remove all posts after JeBus?
Mr. Rustler, the point is that I do not need any information regarding other ppl's projects. I need suggestions that I can use for mine. Your 'heads up' was irrelevant.
Thank you.


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David T
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Posted: 12th Sep 2004 03:18
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Denise,

Done. I'm not sure if it was necessary, but it's your thread and you have the call

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CattleRustler
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Location: case modding at overclock.net
Posted: 12th Sep 2004 07:11 Edited at: 12th Sep 2004 07:14
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DG,

Firstly, thats fine - If what I stated is irrelevant in your eyes, so be it, thats your right. BUT this whole notion of asking us to remove anything that you dont like in your thread is NOT ok. If peoples posts fall within A)The rules of the forum, and B)The topic then you need to deal with what is said - end of story. YES mods will remove erroneous(sp) flamebait and spam from the thread, as Ian and I did ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION, but this is not something that is done whimsically at your beck and call. You posted a thread, or you have stood by it when given the chance to have it deleted and start over - now you deal with the consequences.

Update: Its a harsh cold world and other people's ideas don't always match yours. If you post a thread be prepared for what comes back, without crying to the moderators every time you see something you dont like. If it is in the rules/on the topic, then... oh well.


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David T
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Location: England
Posted: 12th Sep 2004 08:00
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CR: See your complaint topic in mods forum.

As for the subject of post-cleaning, I've noticed in increasingly in other topics. I don't necessarily agree with it, and I accept that perhaps it was going too far deleting those that go off at a shallow tangent.

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Final Epsilon
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Joined: 26th Jan 2004
Location: CA, USA
Posted: 12th Sep 2004 12:08 Edited at: 13th Sep 2004 00:58
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Hrm. I just thought of an Idea while I was programming.

How about a system in which the parenthesis that you are closing get highlighted? I know my calculator does this, and it makes functions alot easier to type in.

As you close parenthesis, the opening parenthesis that you are closing is temporarily highlighted, as well as your closing parenthesis, so you know what level you're closing. It'd make long complex statements alot easier.

If you wanted to do a bit more, you could also color the the parenthesis, or slightly offset the color of the statments inside parenthesis, but i would be happy with just the first method. ^_^

Any idea on the release date of this IDE?
It looks good.

Oh well, just me 0.02$
Hope i helped.
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DARKGirl
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Location: Right behind you....
Posted: 12th Sep 2004 14:23 Edited at: 12th Sep 2004 14:37
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Final Epsilon,
I think I understand what you mean, and I will try to implement that. I'm not sure what to say about the release date, because Raven might complain if I try to rush things (too much). I think it would be safe to say that you can expect this IDE to be released before Halloween.

CattleRustler,
Why are you getting defensive? Is it because you like to delete others' off topic posts, but you get upset when yours are deleted? I did not ask for your posts to be deleted out of spite, I merely asked them to be deleted because they were not what I had asked for. Maybe I should make myself more clear this time:

Raven and I are going to create a library of special DBP commands that will be shipped with this IDE. We have a few good ideas, but I would like to hear what the community wants. One of my favourite commands we are going to implement is the Mid() function. I feel that the standard Mid$ command is far too limited for my liking, so I decided that its time to make a Mid() that parses text even further. (The way it was supposed to be done in the first place (my personal opinion)).

Usage:
Mid(String$, StartPosition, Length)

Definition:
Extracts a string of specified 'Length' from the given 'String$'. 'StartPosition' specifies which character position to start extracting from. 'Length' specifies how many characters from that position you want to extract.

Example:
Mid("Denise", 2, 3) ; Result will be "eni".

I would like you to provide the usage, definition, and an example (like the example above). I am not making any promises, because the function may be too difficult to implement, but I promise you that I will do my best.

Thank you in advance.

All I want are examples, not comments about other ppl's projects, accomplishments, etc. This is a development thread that I will use to help make the IDE the very best it can be, not some everyday comment area. If you want to send personal comments, or anything else that may or may not pertain to this IDE, feel free to e-mail me at darkgirl.auror@gmail.com

No hard feelings ok?

Cheers!


I create games only to test my imagination's limits!
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