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Geek Culture / what is the key to making addicting games ?

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Keemo1000
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 22:49
I would like to make games great , not great for graphics ONLY , but for its addicting gameplay , for example , i think pacman or bomberman is 2 times more addicting than Gta Vice City or San Andreas , i think its because the game has a simpler task ? Or the 2d gta for example , all you do is kill lots of people , wait till the police cars arrive , then the fun really begins !

Any tips on making addicting games can be really appreciated

Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 22:52
I think Vice City and San Andreas are more addicting, but I get your point. IMHO, The key is to do something original that either requires a great deal of thought or experience of playing to capture a win.

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Perokreco
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 22:54
Shoudnt this be in game design theory?
Killswitch
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 22:55
Simple, repetative (although not too repetative), just right difficulty curve - fun.

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Scraggle
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 22:56
I think the key to making addictive games is to make the user want more. They will only keep playing if it is fun and there is a challenge to see/do/unlock more things.


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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 23:04
Maybe the key to addicting games is that to be addictive, it must be an MMORPG, so have at it.

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 23:33
Keemo, if you want to make a game, Think up a plot first. You can't have a fun game if it happened like this "I know, I'll make a game! A 3D game! 'Make matrix blah blah...'

It will never work.
Zotoaster
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 23:43
I think that everything should happen quickly, you dont want to bore the player by making him walk along a huge strip of road just to get a coin or something, if you make it exciting then I think thats best


Keemo1000
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 23:48
i have a game plot , im just thinking of how to make it more addicting , here is the story for my upcoming game , Turbo Basher :-

Once upon a time , when planet Zed , a planet full of ball-like creatures , was peaceful and sound . A few years after the planet's renovation ,there was a rumour spread out that warned them that their neighbour planet , Dreto ,was preparing for an invasion to take over their planet . To make sure , Zed chose Alex ,a brave teenager secretly to Dret to spy on whether they really are preparing for an invasion or not , after the head wizard on the planet enchanted Alex with a special skill , some space marines sent Alex to Dreto , dropping him secretly there . The skill Alex learned was unique and its purpose was to eliminate an creature that tries to attack him , just incase , called Turbo Bash . After
a few hours of searching the planet , Alex found a mysterious place , once he entered , he found himself surrounded by monsters ...


Im not sure if its good , but i dont think a game simply of killing monsters by rolling (at) them would be addictive , i just need some key features of what makes an addicting game so i can add it to my game .

lets discuss how pacman is so addicting , even though its idea came from a slice of pizza (notice the yellow guy's mouth)

or bomber man , a 1 player vs computer game , which makes you blast them , this is more fun that lots of games i played . A game like WoW looks great , and sounds fun , but do you really think its addicting ? its like

DO

kill monsters ,level up , earn gold , buy weapons , kill players

LOOP

somebody list down some key features or something please

Fallout
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 23:50
Reward skill. Give the player something to master to give him a sense of achievement. The best and most addictive games are those when you feel you're truely becoming skilled at them (i.e. racing games, shooters that get progessively tougher) anything that requires a lot of dedication and mastery of the controls.

Keemo1000
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:11
absolutely right , any more ? *i can make a key features list when we are done posting at least 10 key features*

The dude guy
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:21
A game that lasts a LONG time like Final Fantasy. And you forgot about quests

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Keemo1000
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:23
What makes and addicting game *so far* :-

1 .
Quote: "do something original that requires a great deal of experience in the game before winning/completing the game."



2 .
Quote: " Simple, repetative , fun"


3 .
Quote: "make the user want more. They will only keep playing if it is fun and there is a challenge to see/do/unlock more things."


4 .
Quote: "everything should happen quickly, you dont want to bore the player,by making him walk along a huge strip of road just to get a coin or something, if you make it exciting then I think thats best"


5.
Quote: "Give the player something to master to give him a sense of achievement. The best and most addictive games are those when you feel you're truely becoming skilled at them (i.e. racing games(NFSU2) )"


6.
Quote: "Not to give the player total freedom , but to tell him of his tasks directly , and not let him/her discover it for themselves ."



7. ???


8. ????

9. ???/

10. ???


can you fill these ?

Peter H
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:25
awesomeness

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:30
Revenge seems to be a good quality. Pacman has his revenge when he eats the pills.

BatVink
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:31
You definitely need a constant "almost there" feel. looking back at the good arcade racers, you always finished with the next checkpoint in sight. That was for a very good reason!

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Dazzag
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:33
http://gc.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=5883I think this is pretty original. Plus it's got revenge. Plus it even helps charity.... erm, and it actually sounds pretty cool

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Keemo1000
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:40
how about 7 , 8 and 9 ?

Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:43
Quote: " Pacman has his revenge when he eats the pills."


Stupid yellow druggy ball

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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:47
http://gc.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=5883

Quote: "Said one cop who investigated such a murder in Grand Rapids, Michigan: "The killing was like an extension of the game.""


Hmm, that's where I lived most of my life. Wondering if he was talking about the triple homocide kid who killed his two sisters and mom. Because the kid that did it used to go to school with me and in fact live right next to me. Was wondering how far that story spread.

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Sergey K
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 00:51
game storys/quests - for the peoples that likes to read
game graphics - for the peoples with super good computers that like to test their computers on the game
Action Game - for the peoples that loves action games
RPG - for the peoples that loves RPG games
etc.


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DBAlex
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 01:20
Stop saying Addicting!

Its addictive.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 01:21
Hahaha I was wondering how long it would take before someone said that.

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jrowe
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 01:25
Quote: "what is the key to making addicting games ?"


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Deadwords
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 01:25
Quote: "Stop saying Addicting!

Its addictive."

Quote: "Hahaha I was wondering how long it would take before someone said that."


This thread has been Binjaminted by himself and DBAlex

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Raven
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 01:41 Edited at: 14th Oct 2005 01:42
lol d'oh

starstrike
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 02:26
every sync you do a short flash of "You want to play more".. (its illegal to do that though)
Xenocythe
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 02:28
What?
Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 02:35
Quote: " What?"


http://www.subliminal-message.com/

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 03:05
Oh. Pretty Dumb, I dont beleive it. Unless you can prove to me its true.
dark coder
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 03:46
back on topic ,

i think one method of making addicting games is to add new things be it new weapons a new storyline/plot twist, but make sure its not too hard to get to these changes, and each of the new changes should be very different from the previous parts of the game and the user must know that something awsome is going to happen. also for the new additions its advisable to ask for other peoples inputs as theres a limited ammount of ideas you can think for your game, and developers and game players think differently so its good to get input from people who have no clue what there talking about


starstrike
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 05:37 Edited at: 14th Oct 2005 05:46
Quote: "
lets discuss how pacman is so addicting
"


simple.. is not, Ive never liked pacman much,it was fun in like 10 minutes...

If you for example make a fps, the storyline better be good.. there is alot of fps games out there now, and they feel all the same, only the gfx is different.. one of the best shooter games last years is Maxx Payne 1.. the slow motion effect was a fun and new thing back then.. GTA series is kinda fun, and you will play them for hours.

I disagree to this :
Quote: "Simple, repetative , fun"

I dont want a simple and repeative game.. repeating = boring, simple = boring.. I want challenge (but not damn impossible), new things..

One thing I hate is mission with a timer.. ok, its a challenge, but its also very very frustrating way to create a challenge.. Ever played the mission in gta were you fly a model plane and kill some buddies on bike/cars ? I almost destroyed my ps2 after trying that mission 20 times.. I finally made it, but I'll never do that mission again.

Quote: "
Maybe the key to addicting games is that to be addictive, it must be an MMORPG
"

Ive played MMORPG for 2.5 years.. its named EVE online and in the last months World of warcraft. eve online was actually fun in 2 years -and I played it almost every single day. its a quite complex game, progress is slow, but still it was fun, and you never stop getting better skilled. WoW Ive played for about 1.5 months and has become quite boring already, I cant skill anything anymore (lvl 60 is max), I can only go kill some monsters or players... repeat...
TKF15H
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 05:41 Edited at: 14th Oct 2005 05:58
Quote: "Quote: " Pacman has his revenge when he eats the pills."

Stupid yellow druggy ball"


Stupid? I wouldn't call him that... have you seen that thread I made about world domination? It shows just how close Pacman got to becoming world ruler. You should have a look at it.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=44614&b=2

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TravisP
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 05:57
World of Warcraft..... is the most addicting game I've ever played.
Right now I'm in rehab tho.

JoelJ
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 06:00
World of Warcraft is probably the most boring game EVER made.

And don't give me the "You have to get into it" garbage, because I don't want to play a game for 10 hours before it finally becomes FUN, yippee

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Arkheii
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 09:23
Quote: "http://gc.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=5883I think this is pretty original. Plus it's got revenge. Plus it even helps charity.... erm, and it actually sounds pretty cool

Cheers"


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Me!
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 10:57
anybody who knows the answer to this thread isn`t going to be posting here since they will be far too busy relaxing on the beach of their private island outside their luxury mansion while being tended to by 40 scantily clad supermodels



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Van B
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 11:12
I don't think you can make a trully addicting game these days, at least not in the same way that Pacman and Space Invaders were.

For a game to be trully addictive it has to be really simple, like in Pacman you can only change direction, in space invaders you can only move left and right and shoot. The simple controls leaves everything upto the persons skill, and to get addicted to a game you have to feel like your good at it too.

Nowadays a game only has to be as addictive as it is long, Rockstar North don't want you hooked on GTA Vice City, they want you hooked on San Andreas until their next game comes out. If a GTA game was completely endless, like you never run out of things to do, maybe missions would be generated depending on the game, but if you could keep playing it - it might be considered as addictive as games like WoW. When they make a multiplayer GTA, then I think WoW will find itself without a lot of it's customers.

To get addicted to a game, it has to be endless, you can never complete it then say, 'nice game, onto the next'. I mean, one of the games I was most addicted to was Manic Miner, I could complete it as a kid, but it starts again at stage 1, so you keep playing, same with Bruce Lee - that's one hell of an addicting game with 2 players, kinda like a co-op mode before they were invented .

One major factor though is difficulty, it has to draw you in, then become a very skilled affair to complete - not everyone should be able to complete your game, completion is a reward for those that persevere.

Halo is quite addictive, like you start playing and you want to see where the story goes - the designers used a 30-seconds of fun principle. Like there's 30 seconds worth of fun things to do in halo, that's all, and it's repeated over and over. There's gotta be cool stuff you can do - like throwing a sticky bomb on something and watching it scurry back to it's mates, that sort of thing is fun, and every game needs it before it can hope to be addictive.


Van-B

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Keemo1000
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 11:18
Quote: "I disagree to this :
Quote: "Simple, repetative , fun""


Simple isnt boring , it means what you need to do is clearly simple , while getting it id what makes it addicting .

Take bomber man for example , if 1p vs pc mode , here is how to play the game :-

1. Use your bombs to blast the computer player (simple task)

but thats what you think , till the he tries to play , and his computer blasts him , an hes like "hey , i thought that was easy , maybe i wasnt concentrating , lets try again"

and thats what happens ... i think ..






Quote: "plot twist"
can someone give me an example of a plot twist ?


Quote: "Ever played the mission in gta were you fly a model plane and kill some buddies on bike/cars ? I almost destroyed my ps2 after trying that mission 20 times.."


Lets not forget that it was the programmer's goal to make you get frustrated and everything , but not frustrated in a way to leave the game , but in an frustrated in an addictive way which makes you feel, "Omg , this game is so frustrating , and yellow car cant get shot , if i can shoot it"

So in the end : you finish the game , and you dont want to do it again , but you wanted to keep playing more and more , till you got a hypnotic addiction disease from gta , jut like drugs , you want more .Thats an addicting game , but it doesnt make the user very happy , till its all finished, this is what we need to do , only that it should be addicting during the game too , so that the player thinks he can do it

Quote: "GIVE THE PLAYER SOME HOPE HE CAN FINISH THE GAME , ONLY THEN WILL HE NOT GIVE UP . Keemo""









Quote: "Ive played MMORPG for 2.5 years"


Ive played MMORPGs for 3 years , from Runescape , to DarkEden , to hoverboard ASDF , to Pristontale , and lots of others , i dont remember 3 years of online gaming , but anyways , not all these gams were addicting .

Runescape : because the tutorial island is dull and lame , its better to le the player gain more knowledge as he plays the game , which makes players want to keep playing

DarkEden : I liked that it had a new feature that you can change to bats , wolves , or even invisible , which was pretty cool , i stopped it because of its camera , a lil bit far away , and its lightmapping , to dark , just because its darkeden , doesnt mean ithas to be a dark game .

Pristontale : I liked it because of its fantastic graphics , great textures , and ofcourse , the colorful monsters (yes the colorful monsters) that you can kill after playing runescape's 1.5 Dimemension graphics , and every 2 levels starting from level 10 , you can learn new skills , by going to a certain knight , to enchant you , the special skills are simple special animations , they dont always make the monster die faster , but things like , "pike wind" is a skill , its effect is to get the monsters a bit further away from you , if they are surrounding you , yes , more than 4 monsters can attack you at any one time
and more than 14 can kill any 1 monster at any time , if they can fit .And that has made Pristontale my favourite online game , i loved it so much , i had to know how it was made , thats how i ended up here with you guys , in TGC

Van B
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 11:42
Quote: "So in the end : you finish the game , and you dont want to do it again , but you wanted to keep playing more and more , till you got a hypnotic addiction disease from gta , jut like drugs , you want more .Thats an addicting game , but it doesnt make the user very happy , till its all finished, this is what we need to do , only that it should be addicting during the game too , so that the player thinks he can do it"


That's quite a dim view of GTA games really - I totally think that GTA games are addicting because the ultimate goal is to pwn the city, like do all the mission, get all the cash, get all the cars - it's about control and power - the most addictive things in the world.


Van-B

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Keemo1000
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 12:04
I object

You earlier said

Quote: "For a game to be trully addictive it has to be really simple, like in Pacman you can only change direction, in space invaders you can only move left and right and shoot. The simple controls leaves everything upto the persons skill, and to get addicted to a game you have to feel like your good at it too.
"


GTA isnt that simple , its based on Gogeta's point :



Quote: " game storys/quests - for the peoples that likes to read
game graphics - for the peoples with super good computers that like to test their computers on the game
Action Game - for the peoples that loves action games
RPG - for the peoples that loves RPG games
etc."



If a person likes racing games , hell find some car-based action in gta

if someone likes killing people , hell find some guns lying around to kill pedestrians

and so on .

That gives you total freedom , but not in a good way

i dont know why i liked the old 2D gta more , so far i only like 1 3d game that sounds addicting (popeye's voyage , quest for papey)

im an old fan of popeye , and now that there is a 3d game in town , i gotta get my hands on it , so maybe reminding people of old games or cartoons can be addicting ?

great thread , keep posting more , make it .....addictingly helpful

Van B
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 13:49
But it's not the game you get addicted to in GTA .

I mean, do you get addicted to doing the dance, or playing the videogame? - it's not the aspects of the game itself, it's the whole feeling you get when you complete a mission and get one step closer to being 'the man'. The aspects are all fun, but I think the ultimate goal is what drives people to keep playing. Even when your just messing about in GTA (which everyone does), your still playing it because your in charge, you want that car, you go take it - it's a power trip to get the police chasing you and loose them.

Being addicted to a game like Pacman is quite different, your addicted because you know how easy it is to play yet are still being beaten. More like playing a 2 player game, if you get beat then you want revenge, you want to get better because it's competitive. That's how I see it anyway, I always played things like Manic Miner and Summer Games on the C64 with my family, the aim was always to do better than my big brother.

I suppose there's lots of different types of 'addiction' in games, it's just that as games become more realistic, so must the emotions they generate.


Van-B

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 16:08
Competition makes games addicting. Online competition. Sure GTA and the mold are great, but they are all offline and will eventually get boring.

Online games like Halo and Diablo 2 serve generous amounts of virtual crack because there is a constant pressure to get the best items, frag the most players etc.


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Keemo1000
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 16:52
Quote: "it's not the aspects of the game itself, it's the whole feeling you get when you complete a mission and get one step closer to being 'the man',the ultimate goal is what drives people to keep playing"


Very correct


Quote: "Being addicted to a game like Pacman is quite different, your addicted because you know how easy it is to play yet are still being beaten"


Supreme

Quote: "playing a 2 player game, if you get beat then you want revenge, you want to get better because it's competitive."


Fantastic

Quote: "the aim was always to do better than my big brother(defeating the best one is one of the game's goals)
"


Tinkergirl
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 19:25
Amusingly, there are now people looking into the ethics of mmorpg addictivness (sp?). Some people think that mmorpgs are becoming so addictive that it's the moral obligation of the creators to limit it.

A bit like limiting the top speed of F1 cars.

They know how to make them more addictive, but whether they should or not is the question.
Keemo1000
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 20:15
i wonder how they do it , thats why i started this thread

Keemo1000
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 20:30
The summary of what ive read so far is that a game is addicting if :-

A simple task , but hard to complete . (Pacman)

Very rewarding goals .(Defeating boss monsters , and showing off to your friends)

Play more , win more ( the more you play , the easier it gets) . (The Need For Speed Series)

2 Player support . (play with your friend , when u get victory , move on to another one , if you fail , get revenge ! )


any more ?

Tinkergirl
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 22:18
Well, in mmorpgs (and it can be used in other genre's) the level treadmill is used to addict the player.

You start off with very quick advancement - and it teaches you that you can get cool new stuff. Then, after that you know exactly how long you've got to go to your next reward/level.

Now, this wouldn't be enough as after you'd leveled you'd see just how far you had to go before the next one. A big task.

But there is a secondary 'carrot' - random rewards. These are usually in the form of loot drops. You know that every kill you make, you 'might' get loot. You might not. But eventually, the more you do the more you feel likely to get that next 'phat lewt' drop.

So you're in a cycle...

Just a few more xp to the next level...
I might get the drop on the next kill...
Woo! I got the loot! Oh, I'm only X XP to the next level...
Just a few more xp to the next level...

Predictable rewards, mixed with randomised rewards are cripplingly addicting.

Have only one or the other, and they just don't work as well.
DBAlex
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 22:32
OMG THIS THREAD IS SO ADDICTING

Arrghhh


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Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 14th Oct 2005 22:48
You know what's even more addicting?

Chocolate Turkeys.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.

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