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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] As a computers expert, I came up with my own Theory

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th May 2006 21:09
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I think "Time" is joining the same topic list as politics and religion soon, lol,


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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SirFire
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Posted: 24th May 2006 21:28 Edited at: 24th May 2006 23:39
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You guys are so predictable

I threw that time thing in there knowing it would spark a heated debate.

Allow me to add more fuel:

Let's go with the near-the-speed-of-light story. Everybody's heard the theory that as you approach the "speed" of light, "time" from your perspective speeds up, yet anyone observing you (not travelling at fantastic speeds) it appears as though you have "slowed down".

How can you say something that changes depending on the observer is "real?"

If I spent my life travelling on a planet with other humans and everyone agrees what the rate of "time" is, and we happen to overtake another habitated planet of humans that travels at a lower velocity, then we would start some kind of interplanetary war arguing about the speed of light, the speed of that, time this and time that.

Just suppose for a moment that time doesn't exist and is merely a fabrication of the human mind to explain our progress through the continuam, then you realise that other theories that we swear by might also be invalid, and soon you may even realize that hardly any of the knowledge of science presented to you through your life is valid.

Before you shrug me off and start flaming, consider that for thousands or even millions of years humans absolutely positively believed the world was flat. They would laugh and riducule those who opposed the "universal beliefs".

I can't prove time does not exist... but can any of you prove that it does??? I'm not talking about "well i remember that about 10 minutes ago I ate a doughnut, and that happend in the past so therefore time must exist"... no, the fact that something has happened is appearant, but can you really definately and without a doubt conclude the exact time that passed since that happened? what if we were travelling at different speeds? Then your observations would be totally invalid according to the observations I made at a different relative speed.

If time is relative to the observer, then it is not factual, and if it's not factual, it's not real.

Have fun

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th May 2006 23:28
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Quote: "Wait a second--- so you're saying if time *does* exist, then how do we time travel? That makes absolutely no sense. The fact that time *does* exist means we can't go back in time, because it has already passed."


From what I have understood by what time is, it isn't only a measurement, well its difficult to explain, but its the past, present and future in existence, the past exist, and so does the future, therefore if thats the case, there could be the possibility of time travel, what I am saying is, it is a theory because how can we say the future exists when we are in the present (Which is partially relating from the comment about if time didn't exist then we'd be frozen)

Quote: "then how do we time travel?"


I do not know, but I meant to say then there could be the possibility.

Quote: "What's mind boggling to me is how you could come to that conclusion. How does the existance of time mean everything is pre-determined?"


As I sound further up in the post, time would be past, present and future existing, if the future exists, then everything would be pre-determined, then if everything was pre-determined then we wouldn't really have free will, and well I cannot see something making that pre-determination.

However I agree that time is only a measurement, I was attempting to argue these ideas that time is somethig more, by saying that they are only theories and until proven are only theories.

夢の海に目覚めること - Into the sea of waking dreams - I am by John Clare
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 25th May 2006 00:21 Edited at: 25th May 2006 00:21
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Quote: "I think these threads need a lot more humour in them, people take them too seriously, we can't have discussions like this between decades of age gaps, really it's like mixing Skittles and M&M's - some people like fruty chewy stuff, some people like chocolate, some people like to believe the world is under the rule of a giant spaghetti monster, and that Wayne Rooney is gonna do a 'Roy of the Rovers' for Engerland despite not having a leg."


You guys just completely ignored this comment, continuing sophomoric debate acting as if Van didn't just own you. Pathetic.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th May 2006 00:53
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Quote: "You guys just completely ignored this comment, continuing sophomoric debate acting as if Van didn't just own you. Pathetic."


Lol, I didn't even read it, wish I did, then I would have mixed skittles and m & m's sooner, but yeah he has a point, but really, initially I was saying how we don't know time exists...As it is something we cannot know

夢の海に目覚めること - Into the sea of waking dreams - I am by John Clare
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Jeku
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Posted: 25th May 2006 01:38
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Quote: "if the future exists, then everything would be pre-determined"


But this statement is what I don't understand. The movie Casablanca exists, but it wasn't pre-determined 100 years before it was made.


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Bahamut
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Posted: 25th May 2006 02:00
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The first definition of future in the dictionary is "time that is still to come."

What part of that implies anything is pre-determined?

You lot are looking way to deeply into this. I emagine time like a piece of string, and the physical world as a photo with a moving picture. As the photo moves further along the string, the picture moves and events happen.
Behind the photo is every single pose of the photo at every time period-history. Ahead of the photo is nothing. Just the string.

However, my way of thinking falls apart when some smart arse comes along and points out that time is relative.

IceBound
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 25th May 2006 02:06
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I think its time for me to post my advanced donut theories, but im not sure you are all capable of debating them in a civil manner.

On the subject of time, your speaking to the one who knows most!


but I shall tell you nothing.

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 25th May 2006 02:13
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Time is a description, movement is a description, neither are portraying what they really are. A car is a description, and easier to understand.....

A car is many parts, and at least a body, with seats. But currently it is a body with seats, windows, mirrors, wheels, engine, nuts, bolts, pistons, tyres, but it is a car.

Time is a description of many parts, and therefore is man made. Movement is a description. The arguments about time, and movement, are missing out all of the many ingredients involved. By missing out what movement is made up from, and combining it with movement needs time, you are reaching a point where you are getting vague.

Movement requires energy, an impulse, so only if energy = time does movement require time. If you say that energy needs time, then you are wrong, because the first instance of the universe created time, and the first instance of the universe was energy. So energy does not need time to explode. Therefore movement does not require time, it requires the release of energy. When energy, and matter share the same space they are forced apart because the area that they fill is suddenly unavailable for both of them. We are talking movement due to expansion, and expansion caused by energy, and energy not requiring time.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th May 2006 19:02
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Quote: "But this statement is what I don't understand. The movie Casablanca exists, but it wasn't pre-determined 100 years before it was made."


I never said that the future IS predetermined, I was saying if what the time that has been theorised (Where all this crap about worm holes, time travel etc has come from) would mean that everything would have to be predetermined for it to be true, I'm not talking about time as the measurement like 3 seconds, or time as a theory or philosophy if you like.

Lets just take Van B's advice, its philosophy, phiolsophy is something that can be argued over and over and over and still get nowhere

夢の海に目覚めること - Into the sea of waking dreams - I am by John Clare
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Bahamut
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Posted: 25th May 2006 19:31
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Quote: "Lets just take Van B's advice, its philosophy, phiolsophy is something that can be argued over and over and over and still get nowhere"


So true I had a 2-hour argument with my philosophy teacher last year. I insisted "I think therefore I am" is a load of rubbish. The rest of the class didn't have a clue what we were on about in the end.

At the end of the day, we can't pove time exists, but there's pretty stong evidence to suggest that it does.

IceBound
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th May 2006 21:19
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Quote: "At the end of the day, we can't pove time exists, but there's pretty stong evidence to suggest that it does."


Yes, some would say that we can't prove anything other than maths, and I'm not referring to Matrix nerds

Quote: "I insisted "I think therefore I am" is a load of rubbish."


How about 'I think therefore I am damned'? It was one of the names of the pieces I did for art GCSE last year. But I can see how the statement can be true and false, it depends how you look at it.

夢の海に目覚めること - Into the sea of waking dreams - I am by John Clare
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Jeku
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Posted: 25th May 2006 21:35
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Quote: "At the end of the day, we can't pove time exists, but there's pretty stong evidence to suggest that it does."


Uh, yah, the fact that I'm breathing is proof enough for me


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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 25th May 2006 21:51
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jeku stole the words right form my mouth

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 25th May 2006 21:57
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I'm on the "time exists" side here. It doesn't make sense to me how anyone could come to the conclusion that time doesn't exist. I have two gray hairs... that's evidence enough for me. No need to call the CSI people, the case is closed on Time. If you're going to spend all of this time arguing about something, argue about something with meaning, like Coke vs. Pepsi or Saitek vs. Logitech or Nathans vs. Oscar Meyer... Coke, Saitek, and Nathans win EASY by the way... You'd be foolish to argue with the likes me on good taste MUAH HA HA HA HA




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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 25th May 2006 22:04 Edited at: 25th May 2006 22:06
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Quote: "Uh, yah, the fact that I'm breathing is proof enough for me"


That just [proves that your lungs can expand, and compress. It proves that energy exists. Time is merely a measure in this case, and the measure can be in seconds, minutes hours, microseconds, in this case time has not been defined.

Quote: "I have two gray hairs... that's evidence enough for me."


So does a young greyhound.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 25th May 2006 22:16
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Quote: "That just proves that your lungs can expand, and compress. It proves that energy exists. Time is merely a measure in this case, and the measure can be in seconds, minutes hours, microseconds, in this case time has not been defined."

Right... so does that mean liquid doesn't exist because we have pints, quarts, liters, gallons, etc. to measure it out? You can't see distance, you can't pick it up and hold it, but by this arguement's structure we're saying that distance, measured in inches and feet and meters and yards and all of that, doesn't exist. We can measure time just like we can measure water: I know that x amounts of minutes have passed while writing this thread, and that if I don't leave for work in a few minutes I'm going to be late and get yelled at. See my point here?


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th May 2006 22:17
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I think people have missed my point. But there is no point re-arguing it out, but I am neither saying time exists or doesn't exist, I was saying it is something we cannot prove, I have explain why and what I mean by time. Time as a measurement exists, as it is mathematical, you can proves maths exists as it is logic.

Quote: "Coke vs. Pepsi or Saitek vs. Logitech or Nathans vs. Oscar Meyer... Coke, Saitek, and Nathans win EASY by the way... You'd be foolish to argue with the likes me on good taste MUAH HA HA HA HA"


Well, I only like coke when its canned or in a glass bottle or straight out of a pump in the bar, otherwise Pepsi wins. (There you got your arguments )

夢の海に目覚めること - Into the sea of waking dreams - I am by John Clare
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Keemo1000
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Posted: 25th May 2006 22:38 Edited at: 25th May 2006 22:43
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Quote: "Future: time that is still to come."


Exactly.

Ok, its impossible to know what is coming in the very future, even if its as simple as waiting for Yahoo! to load on your screen, chances are that an earthquake can hit your town, or there can be a blackout,etc. You can only plan the future, and try to acomplish, and usually succeed. I also believe time travelling is possible. Though travelling in the future is easier than travelling back in time, I dont know why, It just seems easier to increase your speed (accelerating forwards) than to decrease it (As in, accelerating backwards.) I also remember reading something about Einstein that says he believes that people can travel forward into time if we were to travel at the speed of light (1 lightyear per hour or something,etc.) But even if you were to forward into the future, you should find, well, nothing. No other people would be there, since we all are (living) at one pace, you wouldnt find anything or any new people with pocket rocket launchers, you might not even find the earth, as you are also travelling faster than it, who knows, the humans might have destroyed the Earth by then. The Future is time that is yet to come, Time does exist, and we can make plans for the future, but we, 100% cannot be really sure of something is to happen surely or not...

Hope this leaves you with an Idea to consider.

Over and out. Keemo1000_
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Bahamut
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Posted: 25th May 2006 22:49
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Quote: "speed of light (1 lightyear per hour) "


That's Waaaaaaaay faster than the speed of light. A lightyear is the distance light travels in a year.

Here's a vaguely related question.

The nearest star is 4 lightyears away. That means it would take 4 years to get there at the speed of light, and when we look at it, we obseve it as it was 4 years ago.

Now say you travel towards it at the speed of light, watching the star all the time. By the time you reach the star (you're invincible by the way), 4 years would have passed, but 8 years would have passed on the star. Are you watching time on the star go twice as fast?

IceBound
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 26th May 2006 00:13
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Ok so let's go with time existing then. That means that it is now physical, and not just a word. What sort of physical state does it have? Is it a wave? Well that sounds like the best way to describe it physically. So let's say that..

Time = A Wave. The wave needs to move also. If time is a wave, and everything needs time to move, how does the wave move?

So it's not a wave, because the wave cannot move without time. So if time exists as a physical thing, then what is it made of?

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th May 2006 00:26
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Quote: "then what is it made of?"


Bananas, which means if we let bananas go extinct times will stop

Although I can see your side of the arguement Pincho and finally someone else to say how the arguement can go the other way. But its all philosophy, time in the sense that is being talked about is philosophy which has now physical properties, which is why you and I are right in saying there is no proof that time exists. And all you can prove time as, is a measurement. So lets drop Philosophy for now, I'm sure it counts as religion or politics when discussed, as some philosophers would say we cannot prove anything as everything around us we sense is told by our senses and what if our senses are wrong? But I don't think this forum is so good for discussions where nobody is right or wrong

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 26th May 2006 00:34
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Quote: "Time is merely a measure in this case"

so then how do we measure things if time doesnt exist?

Quote: "speed of light (1 lightyear per hour) "


it's called lightYEAR for a reason.

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 26th May 2006 03:01
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Quote: "I think people have missed my point. But there is no point re-arguing it out, but I am neither saying time exists or doesn't exist, I was saying it is something we cannot prove, I have explain why and what I mean by time. Time as a measurement exists, as it is mathematical, you can proves maths exists as it is logic."


Time does exists. If you could travel at the speed of light an then land on earth again. Everyone would be ahed of you in time. It has been proven.

Uncle Sam
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 26th May 2006 03:21
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Quote: "It has been proven."

How can it be proven if we still have yet to travel at the speed of light, or find anything in the known universe that travels at that speed?

As an expert in the space-time continuum, I have come up with my own theory: Time exists, end of arguement. Let's talk about Saitek vs. Logitech.


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Jeku
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Posted: 26th May 2006 03:23
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Quote: "How can it be proven if we still have yet to travel at the speed of light, or find anything in the known universe that travels at that speed?"


It's been proven with airplanes--- you don't need to travel the speed of light--- just really fast

Don't you guys read science magazines or journals? Or are you just making this stuff up as you go?


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 26th May 2006 04:22
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Quote: "Don't you guys read science magazines or journals? Or are you just making this stuff up as you go?"

I am... I just want to talk about something else


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Travis P
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Posted: 26th May 2006 04:42
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Quote: "speed of light (1 lightyear per hour)"

Someone didn't/isn't go/going to school...

On a side note, new searches tell that the speed of light isn't the fastest possible speed. http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v406/n6793/full/406243a0_fs.html

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Van B
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Posted: 26th May 2006 10:03
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Ok I have 634ml of coffee and 15.34 minutes to drink it in.

Time does not exist because you can't take your time back to your desk with you.

My theory.




Now, I have a Saitek joystick and it rocks, it has twelfty hundred buttons, swivels, and if I liked flight sims then I may be happy with it. This is her:


Ain't she pretty? I put my lovely beast up against any of your Logitech rubbish any day! . I think we should turn this thread into a hardware war, joysticks at the ready.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 26th May 2006 10:45 Edited at: 26th May 2006 10:48
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i too have that joystick. it roxors.

btw, its acceleration, not speed that causes time dilation.

Quote: "Time does not exist because you can't take your time back to your desk with you.
"


i couldnt bring an elephant back to the desk with me, elephants don't exist, unless i had the means to move an elephant around.

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Keemo1000
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Posted: 26th May 2006 10:47 Edited at: 26th May 2006 10:53
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Quote: "So if time exists as a physical thing, then what is it made of?"


Its just like air, you can only feel it pass, but its not actually made of something. I believe nothing is true until it can be proved, but if you guys go to any science teachers or even normal people, they'd tell you it exists. Time is not man-made, but we invented machines and gadgets to help you keep track of where time is now.

Take A look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time

and this: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Time

Quoted from Wikipedia:

Quote: "Time is currently one of the few fundamental quantities. These are quantities which can not be defined via other quantities because there is nothing more fundamental known at present. Thus, similar to definition of other fundamental quantities (like space and mass), time is defined via measurement. Currently, the standard time interval (called conventional second, or simply second) is defined as 9 192 631 770 oscillations of a hyperfine transition in the 133caesium (Cs) atom.

This definition of time coupled to the current definition of space in physics makes our space-time to be Minkowski space-time - and thus makes special relativity absolutely correct simply by definition.

Prior to Albert Einstein's relativistic physics, time and space had been treated as distinct dimensions; Einstein linked time and space into spacetime. He said that time was basically what a clock reads; the clock can be any action or change, like the movement of the sun. Einstein showed that people traveling at different speeds will measure different times for events and different distances between objects, though these differences are minute unless one is traveling at a speed close to that of light. Many subatomic particles exist for only a fixed fraction of a second in a lab relatively at rest, but some that travel close to the speed of light can be measured to travel further and survive longer than expected "


Quote: ""speed of light (1 lightyear per hour)""


Typo, sorry bout that lol.



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 26th May 2006 11:01
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Quote: "It's been proven with airplanes--- you don't need to travel the speed of light--- just really fast"


I've already linked to the airplanes thing earlier. It doesn't really prove that time exists though. For one thing, the results did not match what the scientists expected. Ok so the clocks slowed down, and speeded up. But there could be other reasons why that would happen travelling opposite directions around the world. Maybe there is an invisible stream of particles travelling around the earth, and the planes fly against the flow, and with the flow. That might effect the clocks. I beleive there actually is a flow of particles around the Earth, and it creates gravity, I have posted that before. What's more.. I think I know what everything is made of, including everything in the universe, even space, and I know how the universe started without a big bang. I will build a model soon of my Dendulum. It proves that everything is just an impulse of energy, and a dendulum. Time does not really exist, everything is digital. We do not move, we are recreated over and over like being in a strobescope.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 26th May 2006 11:02
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I use the Saitek ST290 Pro to slay and embarass my aerial foes. It too is twisty, but doesn't have as many nifty buttons But I like it It has the cool blue light on top, too. Simply by sheer coincidence, my Sony Vaio's "Vaio" label, my 5.1 speakers for my computers (well, the little mouse-shaped volume control), AND the blue light on top of the Saitek, are all the same shade and tone of blue. Is that tone cheaper to make or something? Or did I just luck out and oddly buy a perfectly matching computer?

It takes me 22 seconds to drink a 12-oz. can of Coca Cola, counting the breath I need to take in the middle. Compare that to the 3:16 it takes for me to slam a Pepsi due to its horrendous taste. Fountain coke rocks the hizzy.

Nathan's hotdogs are a full 12-inches when cooked, although some are 10. But this makes them better than Ballpark or Oscar Meyer hotdogs because those don't even fit in the bun, PLUS they taste better. And what ballpark on earth sells ballpark hotdogs?!? And why hasn't said ballpark been burned down by riotous assemblies of angry hotdog customers?!? If I can quote the commercial I saw on YES (the NY Yankees TV station), "It isn't baseball without Nathans."

Dare I complete my dinner tomorrow night with a NATHANS HOT DOG AND A CAN OF COCA COLA?!? EGAD!


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Keemo1000
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Posted: 26th May 2006 11:35
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Cmon guys, this is the third time you offtopicize my thread. Its either time exists or doesnt, or 3d exists, or it doesnt... Lol

Quote: "Time does not really exist, everything is digital. We do not move, we are recreated over and over like being in a strobescope."


Not True...



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 26th May 2006 12:05
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Quote: "Not True..."


That's not an argument.

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Keemo1000
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Posted: 26th May 2006 12:21
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I know air is made of gases, I was just saying that time is similar to air in that you can only feel it pass but not really see it, only its effects.



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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 26th May 2006 12:22
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I think there's a shipload of generalization going on here. How can you even define time by one simple principle? Seriously, dictionary.com comes up with 14 different definitions for "time". I think clarification on what you are exactly trying to discover will make your debate slightly more fruitful.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 26th May 2006 13:01
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Quote: "I think there's a shipload of generalization going on here. How can you even define time by one simple principle? Seriously, dictionary.com comes up with 14 different definitions for "time". I think clarification on what you are exactly trying to discover will make your debate slightly more fruitful."


Yes most people are just using time as a word, and not a physical entity. If time exists it has a form of some sort, otherwise it doesn't exist. In my oppinion, if time exists it is two objects trying to share the same space, at which point they move apart. That is really just a physical dillema, and so time is that, and it is in the form of an impulse. This description though could be given many names, and if you think that the two entities need time to be able to move apart then you are really saying that this impulse needs to be given a different name than time, and you are also saying that time doesn't exist. My example really proves that 'time' is a name for something that needs 'time' to exist, and therefore has an inefficient name, and therefore is a man made mistake in naming.

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Keemo1000
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Posted: 26th May 2006 14:27
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Didnt you guys check this ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time



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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 26th May 2006 15:31 Edited at: 26th May 2006 15:32
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Quote: "Didnt you guys check this ?"


What's the point in us debating anything if we use the known definition of something to progress? A definition of something is still an oppinion, but it is the accepted oppinion. I wouldn't be giving you my own examples if all I had to do was accept the known deffinition. Obviously I don't agree with the accepted definition of time. I don't agree with the accepted deffinition of gravity, and I don't agree with the accepted Big Bang. Also I don't accept that the dinosaurs were destroyed by a meteor. I have my own theories on most things, and my ideas link together nicely. You can't use wikipedia to end an discussion.

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Van B
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Posted: 26th May 2006 16:01
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And what do you think your doing Mr.Paxton, thinking outside the box! .

There's simply no discussion to be had if peoples retorts consist of wiki links. Does anyone put their faith in those horrible little turds of information?

Disagreeing with an opinion is great when you have something to go on, not common sense - because common sense got the human race nowhere!. Frankly I'd rather read opinions here than wiki links, as mad or sensible or funny as they can be, because this is a forum where people are talking, not researching, nobody is here looking for definitive proof so people should stop acting like they have it.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th May 2006 16:08
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Quote: "Its just like air, you can only feel it pass, but its not actually made of something."


Its made of differant types of gas molecules, like oxygen and carbon dioxide, it is matter, just isn't very dense, otherwise if air wasn't matter then we couldn't use it to breath.

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And jesus! We can't prove that time exists because it isn't something we can sense as it is made of no matter, but only can think of as part of a logic. And science magazines can't prove time anymore than Plato can with Logos, or people with God, some thing it exists, others don't, myself I'm not sure, I mean it could, there plenty to say that it does, but there are arguments that say it doesn't, I tried to point those out, but it seems people couldn't grasp what was being said. And when it comes to the possibility of our senses decieving our minds then the possibility is we cannot prove anything.

Now lets all eat marshmellows and sing the Campfire Song song, so.. "C. A. M. P. F. I. R. E. S. O. N. G. song, why don't you sing along"

夢の海に目覚めること - Into the sea of waking dreams - I am by John Clare
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Jeku
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Posted: 26th May 2006 19:04
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Gotta love the armchair scientists and philosophers.

"Hey guys, guess what? I have a bottle of water I'm about to drink"

"Water doesn't exist--- or the world. Your brain is being probed by a third party, making you feel as if there's things around you. Duh"

"Oh. Well in that case it won't matter if I punch you in the head?"


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 26th May 2006 19:10 Edited at: 26th May 2006 19:11
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Quote: "Gotta love the armchair scientists and philosophers.

"Hey guys, guess what? I have a bottle of water I'm about to drink"

"Water doesn't exist--- or the world. Your brain is being probed by a third party, making you feel as if there's things around you. Duh"

"Oh. Well in that case it won't matter if I punch you in the head?"
"


At the same time, you've gotta love the armchair brainwashed, who use quotes from past threads, and journals.

Water mentioned already.....

Water doesn't exiist... mentioned already....

Armchair philosophers... mentioned already...

Matrix... mentioned in most threads like this....

I think that people should think for themselves, rather than just keep quoting stuff from Einstein, or Wikipedia, or past threads.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th May 2006 20:19
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Quote: ""Water doesn't exist--- or the world. Your brain is being probed by a third party, making you feel as if there's things around you. Duh""


ffs, I have not said that anything doe or doesn't exist! Whats with the flaming in some of this argument, I haven't been offensive in any way. In my last post I was referring to an interpretation of Plato's allegory of the cave, unless you think Plato was an armchair philosopher... All that I have been saying is that we cannot prove time exists, as Pincho pointed out thats because it has no physical properties, I mean we can't see it, we can't touch it, we can't hear it, we can't smell it and we can't taste it, thats all we have to say we can prove something, if we can prove time, then what sense do we have to detect what time is? Except probaly waves are an exception.

So like I've said over and over, we cannot prove the argument either way, how hard is that to understand?

夢の海に目覚めること - Into the sea of waking dreams - I am by John Clare
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 26th May 2006 20:33
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NOTHING EXISTS!!!!

http://www.timecube.com/

btw, change the air analogy to wind.

wind has no substance, but to say it doesnt exist defies the laws of meteorology. you see the effects of wind, its in the movement of air particles and antyhing in their path, whether its a few leaves or entire trees.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th May 2006 20:52
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Wind is a force, which is only proven by its effects like gravity

夢の海に目覚めること - Into the sea of waking dreams - I am by John Clare
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 26th May 2006 21:20
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you just now realized that all 3-D is is an illusion ?

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 26th May 2006 21:20
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Distance can be measured. We know that distance exists. Time is distance in age. No, time is not made of anything. But time can be measured. Like distance, time is a measurement. Time is made up of time, just like distance is made up of distance. There, unarguable, can't be diffused, give it up.

And now for something completely different.

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Jeku
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Posted: 26th May 2006 21:24
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@Musashi - Calm down, I wasn't even referring to you. Way to be overly defensive Some of you guys are taking this stuff waaayyy too seriously--- like it's the end of the world and we're arguing over the last can of dog food.


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