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Geek Culture / PS3 delayed till March

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SirFire
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 05:46
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"Wii" makes you go "wtf?", and sometimes wtf sells.

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The admiral
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 07:03
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Sony is too arrogant they think that their console is so good they can screw people around its just not going to work out that way.

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David T
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 09:38 Edited at: 7th Sep 2006 09:40
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Quote: "DS sure outdid any predictions and is still selling roughly about as good as PSP, thanks to DS Lite. "


The PSP is getting a through owning by the DS, even without the Lite. First Quarter 2006:

DS Original: 1.3m units
DS Lite: 2.6m units
PSP: under 1m units

so roughly 4:1 ratio.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5155786.stm

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Josh
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 12:05 Edited at: 7th Sep 2006 12:06
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Quote: "erm Wii ?"


As SirFire said, sometimes "wtf" sells. This name will make people want to find out what the hell it is.

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Van B
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 12:48
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Wii, is a more selable name than XBox, PS3, Gamecube, Game-anything really.

nintendo have the Wii aimed squarely at your mom and dad, people who don't play games, they already know we know and we'll find out about the Wii ourselves, it's their aim to get more non-gamers interested. By calling it Wii, there's no game connetation with it, and they will feel less of a tool asking for Wii games than making a fool of themselves buying 360 games. Seriously, even just going into a game shop is daunting for some people, like going into a sex shop I imagine - but the important thing is that Wii will give them confidence to enquire about it, because they'll think it's aimed at people just like them, who dislike control pads and complicated buttons, could give a monkeys chuff about the name, and have the money to buy it and all the peripherals. Wii will roll off the tongue eventually - name won't be an issue for people who can control their sniggering.

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Lukas W
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 15:28
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that is so true.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 18:21
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David T:
I think we are both wrong here. First off the numbers I saw was the US/EU games sold (not units), but for both N and S that's more interesting though as they earn most on the games. And the numbers you have are Japan only. Not to say that a 4:1 sales ratio ín Japan doesn't mean that can't be that high in the rest of the world, I just think PSP might be more apealing to non japanese customers so the ratio would be lower.


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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 18:41 Edited at: 7th Sep 2006 18:42
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Van:
I'm quite sure Wii will attract more non gamers and broaden the market but I think N is a bit too optimistic. For example, my parents can barely handle a TV remote these days and nothing in the world is going to make them try Wii games. Another thing to point out is that while there are games that are quite simple to play most will use the Wiimote in complicated games. And even if more people play, like the whole family, it doesn't mean that they will sell more units or more games.

Many casual gamers doesn't play much and 1 or 2 games are enough for them and once there is 1 Wii in the house there's no need to buy another. A frind of mine's dad played nothing but Ice Climber as long as he had his NES, and another friend's dad played nothing but Collin McRae Rally for years. It's hard to learn an old dog to sit. I heard on The Hotspot yesterday that the top 13% hard core gamers by 30% of the games and games like Madden sell a lot every year because their consumers practically play nothing else due to lack of time.

Wii also have a problem facing PS2's set of pheripal based games like EyeToy, Guitar Hero, Sing Star and Buzz that really appeal to a very broad audience. And then we have The Sims that has been and is very popular among female gamers. Danceing mats are popular on both PS2 and Xbox IIRC. The new PS3 EyeToy have so much better image recognition that it have a whole lot of new possibilities.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with Wii in 2007. It's strongest selling point is probably going to be it's low cost anyway because a lot of parents is going to buy it for their little kids just because it's cheaper then the rest. But then PS2 is even cheaper and will most likely be available for many years in some places.


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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 18:42
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Someone on a forum seemed to do some fairly careful research and I'm sure it can be taken as close to the truth as anything you'll find on the internet randomly. (I.e. - it may be false, it may be true - the internet is like that.)

DS and PSP sales worldwide (written August 2006)

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 20:52
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i have one more point...who ever said they had to release all three consoles onto the market at the same time? why are we judging this as something being pushed back, when we could see it as the console of 2007? instead of compeition between the others, think about it, when the PS3 is released, the xbox will be basically a 1 and a half year old console, not something new to the market, despite how long these consoles last untill the next ones.

you can easily think that Sony is going downhill, but thats personal opinion, and even if you do provide links to other sites stating data to prove such, its still just news guys complaining, even with data, the only people who can prove the problem is Sony themselves, and they seem to be keeping their cool, we are just ants remember, the fact that we are talking about this now, is leading to advertising sony and getting them more hits.

ask yourself, have you ever seen a professional state of the art most widely known manufacturer release a faulty product that destroys itself just like that? yeh there have been recalls, but those are small faults, not millions upon millions of fully built machines, SONY WILL NOT RELEASE A CRAP PRODUCT.

huge businesses have there ways of getting around things, its just the news media that exagerates everything, its friggin stupid.

again, my opinion, i dont know for fact, but its pretty damn obvious, they arent going to release something with stuff like overheating issues that they know about, jeez, everybodys judging their final decision on the console based on what they have heard about a freakin W.I.P


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Josh
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 21:31
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@ Jon Fletcher:

It's true that none of us really know what’s going to happen, Sony obviously thinks it’s onto a winner with the PS3 or it wouldn't be following its current path.

However everybody here has watched countless generations of consoles march by, we've all seen the mistakes, and the triumphs. It's easy to see where different companies are making the same mistakes that were made before and we know what happened to them.

Also, if you read that article that was linked by Tinkergirl it shows in black and white which technique is working best; Sony's or Nintendo's. As the same techniques are being applied to the PS3 and Wii it’s easy to draw the conclusion that we are going to see the same thing happen in the home console market.

Another point is that Sony rushed to copy Nintendo's motion controller idea for E3, and yes, it was rushed. This shows that Sony is running scared, it’s seen the DS thrash the PSP and now expects the Wii to do the same with the PS3. That’s why Sony is trying to steal some of Nintendo's thunder. Makes sense right?

Nintendo is doing the same thing with the DS, its adding in new features such as the web browser and media player to take away what’s left of the PSPs steam.

A lot of people do just post fan-boy crap although this thread has been ok. You just have to ignore the crap and read the posts of the people that are sitting back and taking proper stock of all the factors involved.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 21:36
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Quote: "have you ever seen a professional state of the art most widely known manufacturer release a faulty product that destroys itself just like that?"


Oh, plenty. And there were millions and millions. Their DRM system got decommisioned entirely, that wasnt a small fault. Millions of cds had been sold, laptop batteries, yes, they're only parts, but once again millions. Nothing they make nowadays is anything out of the ordinary, where once they stood for quality, now all they're doing is selling their brandname, I've had a number of sony products like tvs and such, and they're overprice for the quality.

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Josh
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 21:39
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Quote: "where once they stood for quality, now all they're doing is selling their brandname"


Exactly, I've found the same with many faulty Sony TVs costing 1.5 to 2 times as much as other better quality TVs.

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 00:22
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Quote: "it was rushed"


ah, but has the release date been rushed? exactly, they are probably using time to work on any flaws


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Kentaree
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 00:36
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Yes, so they're going to release it more complete in europe and release a crappy version in both Japan and the US, good to know. Do some research, and you will come across a lot better than you are at the moment, you sound like a fanboy

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Predator boy
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 00:37
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Quote: "till March in Europe"

not in us.....

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 01:49
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Quote: "you sound like a fanboy"


i have no favourite console, that is stupid, because the only thing that defines them are the games themself.

just trying to get an opinion in, personally, i dont want to go off and read loads of rumours about consoles, no matter how obvious they might be, i'll judge the final product thank you.


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Saikoro
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 03:06
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Quote: "i'll judge the final product thank you."

Then why are you defending the PS3, if you haven't even seen it yet


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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 17:13 Edited at: 8th Sep 2006 17:15
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http://www.smh.com.au/news/games/no-playstation-for-christmas/2006/09/06/1157222189890.html


Quote: " Remember the PS3 doesn't have a set market share already, it currently has 0% until it starts to ship hardware, no matter how much the PS2 has. "


Apart from Brand loyalty ? The same satisfaction that makes a person an MS, Xbox, Nintendo, (insert brand here) supporter, will inevitability in sony's case convert many existing PS (1&2), PSP owners into PS3 owners. Based solely upon their previous experience.


Quote: ""Wii" makes you go "wtf?", and sometimes wtf sells."

Quote: " As SirFire said, sometimes "wtf" sells. This name will make people want to find out what the hell it is. "


Really, would you rush out and buy an [bInfinity][/b] then ?

Introducing a new brand name, requires not only some healthy brand association (aka Nintendo Wii, Nintendo DS) but market education. i.e. Explaining it to the media, who in turn explain it to the user potential base..

Ie.

Quote: "nintendo have the Wii aimed squarely at your mom and dad, people who don't play games,"


Familiar, straight out of the N sales pitch.

While making gaming more assessable is a noble cause. I have my doubts we'll be seeing the 'Nintendo Wii' at retail in anything but gaming stores, game departments in mega stores. Right alone side the present racks of 360 / PS2 / PS3 whatever.


Quote: "Then why are you defending the PS3, if you haven't even seen it yet"


erm, Why dismiss it, if you haven't even seen it ?


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Kentaree
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 18:00
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Brand loyalty will only go so far though, if I was a parent buying my kid a present, I certainly would not spend 400 quid or more on a console when there's others out there, just as well advertised, which are cheaper, and in the end, most console for under 18s are going to be bought by the parents

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Josh
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 18:30 Edited at: 8th Sep 2006 18:32
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Quote: "Apart from Brand loyalty ? The same satisfaction that makes a person an MS, Xbox, Nintendo, (insert brand here) supporter, will inevitability in sony's case convert many existing PS (1&2), PSP owners into PS3 owners. Based solely upon their previous experience."


Basing the sales of your new products purely on brand loyalty alone is bad business practice. Each new product should be treated as though it is the first in the series; otherwise you will end up getting complacent and expecting people to buy it.

Its true that x% of PS2 users will convert directly to PS3, but at the same time more and more will move to 360 and Wii. Especially now the PS3 launch has been pushed back for a second time.


My predictions:

Japan:

1st) Wii
2nd) PS3
3rd) 360

This is pretty clear cut already from the success of the DS and the utter failure of the 360 in Japan.

America:

1st) PS3
2nd) Wii
3rd) 360

America isn't so clear, but I expect we will see something along these lines.

Europe:

1st) Wii
2nd) PS3
3rd) 360

Again the success of the DS in Europe points towards the Wii being number 1, the PS3 because of brand loyalty etc will number 2.


So why do I think the 360 will not do so well? It won't do as badly as the GameCube however, it only has Live going for it as its USP and that is being matched by Sony, and undercut by Nintendo's free service.

In all these predictions I'm assuming that Sony doesn't mess up anything else.


Quote: "Really, would you rush out and buy an [bInfinity] then ? "


Using words from the English language does not count as a "weird and wonderful" brand name. Obscure words such as Wii with double meanings do. Sure the brand affiliation adds a lot of weight to a product, but when new brands are just starting out using interesting and unassuming names is an effective way to catch attention. Doing this still catches attention when used in conjunction with the big brands.


Quote: "While making gaming more assessable is a noble cause. I have my doubts we'll be seeing the 'Nintendo Wii' at retail in anything but gaming stores, game departments in mega stores. Right alone side the present racks of 360 / PS2 / PS3 whatever."


The Wii is still a games console through and through so of course its going to be placed amongst the other consoles. If any of the consoles proves popular enough you'll start to see them popping up in other kinds of shops.

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Izzy545
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 18:35
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Quote: "So why do I think the 360 will not do so well? It won't do as badly as the GameCube however, it only has Live going for it as its USP and that is being matched by Sony, and undercut by Nintendo's free service."


Matched by Sony? AFAIK nobody's even seen it yet. I have a feeling that Sony isn't going to throw away that much money to make their service as good as Live and free as well. They'll either riddle it with ads, or make it like Live and have basic services free, with advanced services costing money.

I'm still very skeptical about PS3's online service.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 18:40
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I disagree with your projections of the Xbox360, it has a MASSIVE sales lead over the other two consoles already, and, PS3 and Wii or not, it WILL get a salesboost over christmas

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Josh
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 18:50
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@ Izzy545:

Like I said I'm assuming that Sony doesn't mess up anything else including its online service. I doubt it will be free, but Nintendo's definitely will be.

It's in Sony's best interest to at least match Live, if they don't we may as well wave goodbye to the PS3 right here and now.


Quote: "I have a feeling that Sony isn't going to throw away that much money..."


Sony has already thrown away so much money that if the PS3 flumps it'll drag down the rest of the corporation. A few more million isn't going to make that dent a great deal worse.


Quote: "I disagree with your projections of the Xbox360, it has a MASSIVE sales lead over the other two consoles already, and, PS3 and Wii or not, it WILL get a salesboost over christmas"


Sure it has, but as we move away from the first 8-10 months after launch the sales are going to fall down to a more steady number. New products always sell big numbers during their "launch window" and level out as time goes on. 360 may have 10 million now (or w/e) but it won't have 20 million by this time next year.

I just don't think the Xbox has the right image, its seen as a hardcore gamer platform rather than little Johnny's new toy. And there are only so many hardcore and "medium-core" gamers out there.

The Wii will be in front because its opening up the market and actively finding new customers that just weren’t there before. Its leaving Sony's brand power and Xbox's Live to fight over the old market.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 19:12
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Quote: "Sure it has, but as we move away from the first 8-10 months after launch the sales are going to fall down to a more steady number. New products always sell big numbers during their "launch window" and level out as time goes on. 360 may have 10 million now (or w/e) but it won't have 20 million by this time next year."


Agreed, but the other console will experience the same. Assuming the decrease rate for each console is the same (which it wont be), the Xbox will stay in the lead. Kinda the concept of constantly halving its lead, its gonna get smaller and smaller, but never get there.

I do think the other consoles will sell just aswell or better than the xbox, but its got a massive lead already

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Jon Fletcher
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 20:15 Edited at: 8th Sep 2006 20:16
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Quote: "Then why are you defending the PS3, if you haven't even seen it yet"


im not defending it, in fact the only thing im telling people to do is NOT JUDGE SOMETHING BY ITS WIP

you wouldn't go into the wip forum, play a game, then come out and tell people not to download the final version because what you've seen/heard of the wip is buggy, when the creator is CLEARLY AWARE OF THE PROBLEM.

i could say the exact same thing about anything coming out, coincidentally, if you haven't realised, this thread is centered around the ps3


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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 20:38
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Tinker:
Thanks for the info

Josh:
I'm quite surprised myself that PSP have sold as many as half of DS. Nintendo have a strong support, especially in among handhelds and DS have full GB backwards compability, a lot of popular casual games and the PSP may look good but it doesn't feel good in the hands. I've not held a DS but they do look more comfortable and Lite looks great too, not surprising that it sells like crazy though DS have been around for a while.

I expect 360 to do quite well in US. Xbox is an american brand and it's always been associated with shooters which are popular in US (and EU), it may or may not outdo PS3 in US but I doubt any where else. How Wii will do is the big question mark. N have always have strong core supporters but been called a childs console. The market is getting older and fewer are interested in a childs console. It's really up to the games and their implementation of the Wiimote. Not having comparable graphics with 360 and PS3 nor many of the games released on both of these will impact how many hard core gamers feel about the Wii. Visuals do sell, it's often the first factor people decide what games to buy on.


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Saikoro
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 23:01
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Quote: "
erm, Why dismiss it, if you haven't even seen it ?"

I didn't dismiss it.


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The admiral
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Yeah i hardly doubt that the wii will beat the 360 in america. I know its innovative but remember its a niche market not the majority here. I think that the ps3 and xbox360 will be closely matched and the wii will be behind them. This is because when the ps3 comes out the 360 will be releasing some of the more better games and services.

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Jack
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 01:24
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Sony made a fatal error.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 01:37
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Explain

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Josh
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 01:37 Edited at: 9th Sep 2006 01:39
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@ Kentaree:

Thats a fair point. Although the 360's lead could decrease if the PS3 sells more per month, I mean even the PS2 is outselling the 360 during its most lucrative launch window.


Quote: "I've not held a DS but they do look more comfortable"


I don't know about the Lite, but with some games the original DS is a pain to hold, but your hands get used to it after a while and you don't notice it.

The 360 is only appealing to gamers while the Wii is finding entirely new customers + its original fan base which kept it afloat during the GC years. So all in all I expect the Wii to outsell the 360.

This shows what I mean more clearly:

-------------
| 360 | Wii |
-------------
..GG.....GG
..GG.....GG
..GG.....xx
..xx......xx
............xx
............xx

While the Wii may appeal to fewer gamers (G) than the 360, it appeals to more normal people (x). Which is how it will outsell it. This is how the DS is outselling the PSP.

@ The admiral:

I honestly don’t think it’s a niche market. The DS was a test product for this “niche” market and its been a huge success, Nintendo would not have released the Wii if the DS had failed.

The GBA SP Micro was another test to see if the same old same old would outsell the DS, which of course it didn’t.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 01:40
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I agree that the PS2 is selling more than the 360, but personally I think that's due to price difference. Same way that Sony released the PSone which sold really well for a while even though the PS2 was out, so many people say "sod it, too expensive for now"

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The admiral
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 12:12
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@josh:
The ds is a hand held You can hardly compare it to console sales. Noone I know thinks its cool they all think its gay and pointless. How i see it is like a gimmick or a fad which sort is sort of cool but in practice poeple wont buy or use it but we will see.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 14:29
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The Admiral...



Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Kentaree
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 15:09
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Quote: "The ds is a hand held You can hardly compare it to console sales. Noone I know thinks its cool they all think its gay and pointless. How i see it is like a gimmick or a fad which sort is sort of cool but in practice poeple wont buy or use it but we will see."


Oh my, with this level of maturity I have to say we've lost the argument... Now if you read over that again, and read over the facts we posted, you might realise that the DS has already outsold the PSP and will most likely continue to do so

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Josh
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 18:05 Edited at: 9th Sep 2006 18:06
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Quote: "Oh my, with this level of maturity I have to say we've lost the argument... Now if you read over that again, and read over the facts we posted, you might realise that the DS has already outsold the PSP and will most likely continue to do so"


lol Well said.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 18:17
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Quote: "Noone I know thinks its cool they all think its gay and pointless."

1. What's 'gay' about it?
2. Aren't all consoles pointless then, as they do pretty much the same thing?

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Killswitch
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Posted: 9th Sep 2006 19:56
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I'm not sure this is "the end" of Sony, but it's deffinatly going to hurt them. Two years ago I saw the winner of this round of console wars as a dead cert - the PS3. Now I'm not too sure.

Someone mentioned that the PS3 isn't going to be as powerfull as we were lead to believe; I haven't heard anything about this?

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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 00:50
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Quote: "Noone I know thinks its cool they all think its gay and pointless. How i see it is like a gimmick or a fad which sort is sort of cool but in practice poeple wont buy or use it but we will see."


Spoken like someone who has never even touched a DS. Tsk.


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The admiral
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Posted: 10th Sep 2006 02:56
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What i was saying is the ds is a hand held and the ps3 is console.....How can the sales of the ds reflect the sale of the ps3 or the wii for that matter?? And im only quoting what my friends think of the wii they dont like it so dont take it personally or anything. And for the record I have both played and touched a ds it was nothing special.

The admiral
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Josh
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Location: Pompey, Great Britain =D
Posted: 10th Sep 2006 12:08 Edited at: 10th Sep 2006 12:10
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Quote: "How can the sales of the ds reflect the sale of the ps3 or the wii for that matter??"


We are talking about the DS/Wii and PSP/PS3 concepts rather than the actual consoles themselves. The concepts behind the DS and Wii are the same, as are those behind the PSP and PS3. This is leading us to believe that the Wii and PS3 will have similar success to their handheld counterparts, backed up by factual sales numbers.

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The admiral
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 00:34
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Thats fine but I dont think that people will buy a wii just because they have a ds. Lots of people have a hand held just because its mobile and gives them something to do when their board not because they love innovative technology and games.

The admiral
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Saikoro
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 01:09
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Quote: "Thats fine but I dont think that people will buy a wii just because they have a ds. Lots of people have a hand held just because its mobile and gives them something to do when their board not because they love innovative technology and games."

Waaay to miss the point.


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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 02:02
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But the Wii will be connecting with the DS in different ways. Can you imagine playing Animal Crossing Wii and doing some of the stuff on the DS (like the NGC version and the GBA), but wirelessly? And I read that you will be able to download DS demos from the Wii, and since the Wii is always on, it will flash when new content has arrived on the system.

I wish to no end that I could preorder a Wii right now, and I would in a heartbeat. I have read many articles, and even got the chance to play it--- it really is a revolution (no pun intended).


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The admiral
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 04:56
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Thats fine its your point of view but History repeats as people say and I Dont think wii can compete with the bigger consoles just because people dont like to change.

The admiral
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Saikoro
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 05:58
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Quote: "Thats fine its your point of view but History repeats as people say and I Dont think wii can compete with the bigger consoles just because people dont like to change."

If history repeated itself in this manner wouldn't Nintendo be the largest game company, and have a fierce Sega competition?


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The admiral
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 06:06
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Im speaking in terms of the game cube flop and im not the one who says history repeats its everyone else around here.

The admiral
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Saikoro
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 06:13
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Quote: "The admiral: but History repeats as people say"

Who else said that besides you?


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Godrich13
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Posted: 11th Sep 2006 10:47
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Nintendo will come out on top. The mear fact that the Wii is going to only cost $250 as opposed to the PS3's $499-$599 is going to make it soar over the latter. I used to be a Die-Hard Sony-man. But now...now I am going back to my "roots"

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