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Geek Culture / Bulletproof Backpacks?

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Keo C
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 02:34
I was watching Glenn Beck and they start talking about a backpack that can repel knife and bullet attacks. Good idea or a total waste of cash? Post thoughts.
Link:http://www.mychildspack.com/

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 02:37
Well unless people decide to randomly start stabbing and shooting people in the back with backpacks on, then a waste. I guess there is the occasional instance where you could use it (school shooting, transporting something very important or valuable), but there are better ways to find solutions to those.


Agent Dink
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 02:37
Huh... I dunno... It only protects their back, so it seems kinda pointless really... If anyone is going to go at you with a knife, they are probably not going to try to stab you through a backpack anyways. That would be dumb. I suppose being bulletproof is good though, but I guess that goes hand in hand with the knife protection as it can repel bullets it should repel knives anyhow.



vorconan
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 02:54
"You can't put a price on safety". I thought that just before I saw the prices for these bags.



Keo C
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 02:56
Your only safe in Wolf ET. But really like in a school shooting you can take it off and guard your face and heart.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
Mr Tank
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 03:12
That guy from Total Recall on the escalator could have done with one of these.

SUPER BADASS SPACESHIP X: WEBSITE
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 03:18
Quote: "Finally there is a product that will help you take an active step towards safeguarding yourself and the people you care about from shooting incidents."

I like how it says it like people being shot through backpacks is a common occurrence .


RUCCUS
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 03:24
"Put up your hands..."

"WAIT! Just a sec!"

(Turns around and aims backpack at guy with gun)

"Ok! Shoot!"


Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 03:28
These could also be used by the shooters or criminals though. I know there are already bullet-proof vests, but they are probably more expensive and more noticeable than a seemingly everyday backpack.


Keo C
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 03:39
They are lighter then bullet-proof vests too.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
Xenocythe
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 03:58
Keo C
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 04:05
Quote: "I have bulletproof skin."

???????

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
GatorHex
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 04:11
For a cheap version, just fill a regular backpack full of bricks

If people are worried about getting shot they should campain to stop companies selling guns/knifes.

You know they use chopsticks because an emporer banned all knifes and forks because htey were weapons

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
tha_rami
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 05:13 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 05:13
Reminds me of Reno 911, when one guy is standing for show with a bulletproof vest and the officer shoots him in the arm.

Shot man: "...What the f*ck..."

Agent Dink
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 05:22
Quote: "If people are worried about getting shot they should campain to stop companies selling guns/knifes."


If they ban guns and knives, the bad and deranged people who really want them for the wrong reasons will still find ways to get them, while the innocent who would have them for protection from murderers, robbers, and maybe even someday the government are left vulnerable and unprotected.

The US banned alcoholic drinks however many decades ago. If I'm not mistaken the reason they un-banned them was because the crime-rate skyrocketed as people were so desperate for their drinks they'd break the law or make it themselves to get it.

My 2 cents.


Quote: "Lame. I have bulletproof skin."


Me too, well at least that's what my mom said the tag claimed when she bought me from the store. So far my skin hasn't been tested against bullets yet and I'd like to keep it that way.



GatorHex
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 06:57 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 07:02
Quote: "If they ban guns and knives, the bad and deranged people who really want them for the wrong reasons will still find ways to get them, while the innocent who would have them for protection from murderers, robbers, and maybe even someday the government are left vulnerable and unprotected. "


89 people killed with guns in America every single day(32,485 a year).
89 people killed with guns in UK every single year.

Don't tell me giving guns to the public makes you safer coz the figures don't add up

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Agent Dink
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 07:19
Well, I can't argue with the facts, but personally I'd rather be allowed to own guns. Out of curiosity how long has the UK been gun free?



Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 07:21
Quote: "Quote: "If they ban guns and knives, the bad and deranged people who really want them for the wrong reasons will still find ways to get them, while the innocent who would have them for protection from murderers, robbers, and maybe even someday the government are left vulnerable and unprotected. "

89 people killed with guns in America every single day(32,485 a year).
89 people killed with guns in UK every single year.

Don't tell me giving guns to the public makes you safer coz the figures don't add up "

IMO guns should be banned, but obviously carried by police officers. As for the argument that says people can't defend themselves. It's rare that someone even has the chance to defend themselves with a gun, how often do you actually hear of someone only surviving because they had a gun to fight back with? Maybe gas stations and convenience stores should be able to keep them under the counter like some already do, but obviously only used in the case of a robbery. Anyways, it won't happen because "The right to bear arms" is the second amendment of the constitution and United States Bill of Rights .


Agent Dink
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 07:43 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 07:44
Ah, hey did some math with stats from Nationmaster.com.

Yearly murders in the US are 3 times greater than in the UK as of averages taken from 1995 to 2005 (I think thats the year span)

But...

There are nearly 4.9 times as many people in the US... So in all actuality... The US has fewer intentional murders than the UK in proportion.

Now, I know that leaves the realm of just guns, but this is interesting. Why so many more murders (in proportion to the population of course) in the UK if they aren't allowed to own guns? My guess is they simply find another way to do it is all...

Sad the world has to be so screwed up and we think we need weapons to stay safe.



Grandma
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 14:52
"how often do you actually hear of someone only surviving because they had a gun to fight back with?"

Often.

I'm all for guns, banning them wouldn't solve much. As Agent Dink said, the criminals don't care about laws so that wouldn't stop the criminals. It would however take away some cruicial defence from the nice guys.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:02
You see out here in the country we don't get that so I cannot truly relate to the gun problem but grandma and dink are right..bottom line criminals are going to break and circumvent the law no matter how they have to. No law has been or ever will be truly iron clad.

Jess T
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:19
It's a tough one.

We've banned guns here in Aus without a special license for quite a while now (took a massacre before we did, though), and I have to say that the instances of gun related fatalities that I hear about in general and on the news are very rare. It's more often a beating or knife attack.

If you ban guns, like you said, those who really want one will find another means to get it. Sure.
But, if you don't ban guns, anyone can get one which may encourage them to use it. It's a kind of Chicken & Egg situation. Which came first, the shootings, or the abundance of guns?

Personally, I believe that if the guns are taken away, then less people will be inclined to even learn how to shoot, and further preventing the temptation (same reason I'm against Methodone clinics where they give it away for free).
I've learnt to shoot through the Navy cadets. However, it took a pretty hard safety test before I was even allowed near the range, let alone to hold one.

It comes back to the disscusion of do games turn people bad? I think it's generally held by most here that those people were already really, really messed up before they got their hands on the game. Guns are quite the same. Let a psycho have availability of weapons, and they're bound to use them. Take them away and they're still messed up in the head and will no doubt find another way to prove it.

That brings me to the point of protection. Isn't owning a gun for protection like swatting a fly with a sledge-hammer?
I can't see any situation where producing a gun instead of a can of mace can help the situation. Pull the gun, and they still attack: Unless you're good with it, you'll probably miss or be overpowered. Pull the gun, and you shoot: You've just injured or killed someone who could have been subdued just as effectively with mace or a laser.
Because I believe that a gun for 'protection' is an oxymoron, then, unlike the case for violent video games, Guns should be removed completely from normal society.

Don't forget when reading this that I am Australian. I don't follow American laws, and I don't put any weight either way in your Constitution (I have my own laws to worry about ).

At any rate...
A bulletproof backpack?
Haha, that's stupid.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:23 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 15:53
You can own guns in the UK but we limit the type of guns (no machine guns,no hand guns, small calibure etc.), they are not on open sale (you need a no criminal record check), you need a good reason to own one (you belong to a shooting club, home defence is not a reason!).

Our police do not carry guns as standard. There are gun units though, but it's rare you see guns carried by anyone, I've only seen it on the news.

The bottom line is, it's hard to kill a person without a gun, so there will be less deaths and less massacers.

Population Adjusted figures...



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Zombie 20
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:34
Quote: "I think it's generally held by most here that those people were already really, really messed up before they got their hands on the game."


That is a major point I bring up in those debates with people, believe it or not there are some gamers out there that want violent games taken down. Here's an example, in God of War 2 after deafeating a boss you run him through with a blade and then put his head into a big door and you press the X button an X amount of times and every time you do he closes the door on the guys head and blood splatters and he's screaming. My point is..if the correct age group has this game *which is an M rating* do you really think that the majority group of 17+ are gonna say hey buddy lets go out back and smash someone's head in like Kratos just did.

I will not deny that violent video games creates an adreanline rush becuase it does but you know what else does..mountain biking, running, sports, spending time with my friends..should all of these activites be banned from my life? I know what is right and wrong and I know that if you kill someone you are going to go to jail, and its that old saying that it only takes one person to ruin it for everyone else, and jack thompson and his followers have been harping on that for a while now. I am glad to see a bit of a crackdown on really bad games..this concerning manhunt 2, I looked up the first one and I cannot truly condone that project as a viable format of entertainment, I'll stick to mario haha. I hope this all gets resolved in courts and companies will recognize their content should be toned down a little, not a lot but just maybe half a notch and at the same time these stores no matter how many do it really need to do their job and keep these games from those who should not have it, it annoys me greatly to see a 13 year old get a M-rated game with no id but i'm not going to get into that.

Getting back to the original point, these people that are truly messed up in the head were already going to eventually commit something terrible its just now video games have given them a new avenue of inspiration and a scapegoat.


Quote: "You've just injured or killed someone who could have been subdued just as effectively with mace or a laser.
Because I believe that a gun for 'protection' is an oxymoron, then, unlike the case for violent video games, Guns should be removed completely from normal society.
"


I will always have mixed feelings on the gun issue, while I feel that having one isn't always a bad thing, people do not need to be shot and a gun should be the very last thing you would ever have to use. If you are under attack, use your own weapons..your body is more than capable of using an attacker's momentuem against them and flipping them to the ground, if they have a knife I was taught in the boy scouts of all places how to disarm someone with a blunt object or a blade. We should not so heavily rely on these machines..they are truly terrible inventions that have claimed countless numbers of lives.

And then at the same time, through all of that blood you can still see that one scrap of hope that many hang onto, that maybe they can just injure the guy..hell you don't even have to shoot your assailant..club him over the head with the butt of the gun. That'll wake him up haha..so killing does not have to happen but guns are not exactly the worst thing in the world, without firing one bullet..you can instill fear and intimidation in your opponent..very effective if you were the one being attacked. I personally do not have a gun but have a plethora of bows and swords and shields and my trusty bat..feel bad for the guy that breaks into my house..I'll let him know not to mess with an irishman haha.

But in closing..guns and me just don't mix but I am not going to say ban them..however I am going to promote further gun awareness to the public and make a requiremtent for all new gun buyers to go through a class like you had to Jess before they touch their new shiny firearm.

Wow..I've never talked this much in a thread..funny what an interesting topic will do to you.

Zombie

Grandma
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:40
My dad has 3 shotguns, 2 rifles and 3 pistols, my brother has 1 rifle and 1 pump action shotgun, i own 1 AK-47(it's disabled, but could always be "activated" if necessary) and one air gun.

Oh and we have a handgrenade lying around, but my dad has it probably hidden because i might play with it.

No worries, we are all relatively sane.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:41
Do they come in beer bellies and face masks? Most muggers will attack head on with a knife or gun - your best defence against a mugger is to give him your stuff, learn a martial art (Then use the martial art to escape and not kick the crap out of them), I know two people at Karate who have been mugged, both got away safely and the muggers hurt (Well the first of the two put his muggers in hospital, but then he's a 5th dan and ganging up on a 5th isn't going to do you much good)

Though I suppose it's different in America, more muggers carry knives and guns - but a backpack won't do much to protect when most attack generally are taken to the front (unless you manage to keep you back on them (then they can jump up and slit your throat from behind because you're move vulnerable, although you won't get stabbed in the back)...


Personally, if I was worried about being shot or stabbed, I'd carry a Bulletproof Monk to be honest - I think I'd have a much better chance then.

Hakuna Matata
GatorHex
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:41 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 15:46
Looking at the adjusted figures, more USA residents shoot themselfs by accident than all the gun crime in the UK added together

it's funny Japan has the lowest crime firgure, proof chop stick ownership works

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Zombie 20
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:51
Quote: "My dad has 3 shotguns, 2 rifles and 3 pistols, my brother has 1 rifle and 1 pump action shotgun, i own 1 AK-47(it's disabled, but could always be "activated" if necessary) and one air gun.

Oh and we have a handgrenade lying around, but my dad has it probably hidden because i might play with it.

No worries, we are all relatively sane.

"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Oh my god grandma..haha so you'd shoot and I'd slash haha! I feel bad for the mother that messes with your house.

Jess T
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:52 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 15:53
One thing I didn't cover for the 'protection' issue was if you pull a gun and aren't properly trained, or don't handle it often, then the attacker (who, if they're used to muggings, attacking, etc) could easily get the weapon out of your control and either into theirs, or away from you.
If they get it, you've just given them your life on a platter.

If I'm going to get into a fight at the pub, I always go in empty handed. I'm not the best fighter, but I know self-defense (like Seppuku mentioned, it's quite good to get you out of a bind), but if I were to go in with a weapon, I can't guarantee that the other person wouldn't get hold of it. Then what? I'm not that good at self-defense!
Imagine if I pulled a weapon like a gun out. I'd be completely incapacitated.

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:56 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 15:57
Know a little judo myself, and then taught myself some new kicks. I won't hit someone if I don't have to, I'd rather flip them or roll out of the way, I'm not a violent guy..but if you mess with my friends I'm taking ya down. I don't so much mind about me, I'm pretty sure I can take down most built guys, but a brusier and I'll need some help hahaha.


Hahah who can say geeks can't defend themselves now hahah!

GatorHex
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 15:59
Quote: "
My dad has 3 shotguns, 2 rifles and 3 pistols, my brother has 1 rifle and 1 pump action shotgun, i own 1 AK-47(it's disabled, but could always be "activated" if necessary) and one air gun.

Oh and we have a handgrenade lying around, but my dad has it probably hidden because i might play with it.

No worries, we are all relatively sane.
"


If you house was burgled, all that would fall into the hands of criminals or terrorist. They won't rob my house with that lot in it? Easy, they send you a prize that gets you out the house like free tickets to a theme park or sumthin

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Zombie 20
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:04
GatorHex-I don't think one or three people could really contend or try to if Grandma and company were ready for them, I'm sure they're good in the upfront melee field too. I took up arts because of fear of being mugged, didn't want to be in that situation and not be able to get out of it even with an injury.

Manic
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:13
there's a lot of people taking the piss out of the idea... But think about it, if you don't want to get shot, one of the best things to do would be to run away, hence turning the backpack to the shooter. Sure if they shoot you in the head, you'd be dead, but you'd have been dead whichever way you were facing.

Its not a bad idea, as depressing as it is to admit that.

people need to talk more about the social causes of gun crime, rather than banning or not banning them; If no one has a reason to shoot someone, they won't.

Manic

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Van B
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:13
Consider what happens if a school kid runs from a shooting, this backpack would offer an extra piece of mind to parents and will probably sell like nobodies business. It might even give some the courage to simply turn heel and run for it when faced with a situation.

We're going down... in a spiral to the ground...
Zombie 20
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:19
Sorry guess I did get a little carried away..I won't deny that its an interesting prospect and I would be all for the protection of our kids at school. I just think its terrible that they would even have to have that on their minds, even if its only in the back..what happened to the calmer days of my childhood?

Benjamin
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:19
Quote: "No worries, we are all relatively sane. "

I beg to differ.

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Jess T
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:22
Doesn't the issue lie with why there are shootings in the first place, and not with "Ok, let's just live with the fact, and protect them when it happens" (not if)?

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Fallout
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:24 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 16:29
My 2 cents is, in this country, when a criminal has a gun, they know they have the upper hand, so they very rarely shoot anyone. Armed robberies, burglaries and when criminals with guns confront police, it's not often it results in a shooting. As soon as you arm the other side, it raises the stakes. The reason why there are more shootings in America, imo, is because when a criminal has a gun, they know the other parties could well be armed as well, and therefore they're more likely to pull the trigger.

Our police aren't armed, with some rare exceptions of police on the street, and obviously armed police. The majority strongly resist the notion of being armed as well. They know it'll raise the stakes, and arming police will result in more police being killed.

It'd be incredibly difficult to reverse America's gun culture now, but I do believe it'd be a safer place in the long term if they could. It's just not feasible though.

Edit: Btw, with regard to somethings said above, personally, I think it's incredibly difficult to disarm someone with a gun or a knife without getting seriously injured. I personally would never choose not to use a knife in self-defense at the risk of it being taken off me. Unless someone was extremely well trained, I would challenge anyone to take a fake blade out of my hand without me chopping them up with it first. I really don't think it's possible. Maybe in a large group vs me situation, but not 1 on 1, or 2 on 1!


Jess T
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:26
Heh, I just actually looked at the site.

Quote: "In almost 97% of these documented incidents, MJ Safety Solutions backpack could have provided the ballistic protection that could have saved lives."


Ok, now, I'm no gun expert, but a bullet is moving - faster than sound. If it hits you, bullet-proof vest or not, you're going down.
You really think that in a highschool corridor that a shooter isn't going to take a second shot at you, this time for the certain kill?

Could have prevented 97% of incidents, my arse!

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GatorHex
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:29
Actualy believe it or not my life was probably saved by my backpack!

I was run over by a truck on my way home from school, got stuck under the axel as it dragged me down the hill under it.

I had quite a bit of damage but it saved my back from being torn to shreds and proably stopped me poping out the other end and being run over by following cars.

Damn, backpacks are useful

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Jess T
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:32
... wow.

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:35
Quote: "with regard to somethings said above, personally, I think it's incredibly difficult to disarm someone with a gun or a knife without getting seriously injured"


Suppose I should have been more specific, I was given training on how to disarm, but I don't think I could do it without getting cut up real bad. Injury is going to happen but however it is nice to know that if I get a hold on him..I can get the knife. A gun..no way and I wouldn't try that.

Fallout
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 16:48 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 16:59
Quote: "A gun..no way and I wouldn't try that."


How about an unloaded gun .... with a bayonet?

Edit: The thing is though, it only takes one small puncture wound to almost any part of the body. There are major arteries in arms, legs, neck, chest etc. that, when punctured, will result in death in minutes. We hear it on the news quite often here, since knife crime is quite high (in the absence of guns), where people die from a single stab wound to the arm, or leg.

Edit 2: Oh, btw, on topic. This is an absolute farce. It's the sort of money grabbing crap that preys on peoples fear for profit. The factories should be burnt to the ground.


Zombie 20
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 17:00
Quote: "How about an unloaded gun .... with a bayonet? "


Hahahaha I know lets throw rocks at each other!

Seppuku Arts
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20
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 20th Aug 2007 17:09
Quote: "it's funny Japan has the lowest crime firgure, proof chop stick ownership works"


That's because they're delusional, they though 'How do we reduce crime?', 'I know lets legalise all crime activity', 'Brilliant idea!'.

Quote: "i own 1 AK-47(it's disabled, but could always be "activated" if necessary) and one air gun. "


Though I'm not a fan of guns, but my Dad was in the airforce and apparently, the AK-47 is a gorgeous weapon and fun to shoot diseased sheep with...With the potential of Foot and Mouth spreading in Europe again, somehow I imagine I just gave you an idea. Though I doubt it's hardly legal when you're not in the armed forces.

Quote: "Edit 2: Oh, btw, on topic. This is an absolute farce. It's the sort of money grabbing crap that preys on peoples fear for profit. The factories should be burnt to the ground."


Good idea...because soon parents will stop their kids playing outside in the USA under the recommendation of more powerful people - and in real fact they're not as endangered as the media may portray - like with Sharks, there's a minute number of shark attack and an even small number of fatalities - you're more likely to die riding a bicycle than swimming in a place where sharks have been spotted before (I mean human flesh tastes disgusting to Sharks, so they don't actually prey on us) - but it's a fear that the media doesn't help with by scaring people.

Hakuna Matata
Fallout
22
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 20th Aug 2007 17:36
Quote: "I mean human flesh tastes disgusting to Sharks, so they don't actually prey on us"


Speak for yourself. My flesh is sweet and tender and uncommonly good.


Grandma
18
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Joined: 26th Dec 2005
Location: Norway, Guiding the New World Order
Posted: 20th Aug 2007 17:37 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 17:41
Quote: "If you house was burgled, all that would fall into the hands of criminals or terrorist."


That's a big if, crime here is barely noticable....not counting myself, i don't think we have any terrorists, that i know of.

Quote: "I beg to differ."


How could you? You don't know what standpoint my "relatively" was based on. by "relative", i could have tought of a mentally retarded cannibal, then yes, i'm relatively sane.


Edit: @Fallout

lawl

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Seppuku Arts
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 20th Aug 2007 17:40
Quote: "i don't think we have any terrorists, that i know of. "


Look in the mirror and you'll see a genetically modified fish strapped to a bomb and then rethink your statement there.

Quote: "Speak for yourself. My flesh is sweet and tender and uncommonly good."


Well, I know what to feed my sharks when I get my own evil underwater lair.

Hakuna Matata
Grandma
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Joined: 26th Dec 2005
Location: Norway, Guiding the New World Order
Posted: 20th Aug 2007 17:47
Quote: "Look in the mirror and you'll see a genetically modified fish strapped to a bomb and then rethink your statement there."


I said, "not counting myself", but i suppose it's easy to think that belonged to the previous statement. I should have made that part clearer perhaps.

Oh and please don't play on that old joke that all terrorists have bombs attached to them. The terrorists i'm afraid of mostly wear suits, appear on TV and have political power.

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Luciferia
17
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Joined: 3rd Jan 2007
Location: England
Posted: 20th Aug 2007 17:48
Might be useful in south east london.

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