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Geek Culture / Woman fined £100,000 for file sharing 24 songs!

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GatorHex
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 20:22
Nightmare for file sharers

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2184511,00.html

Personaly, I think going after users like this will just put people of buying the genuine article anyway.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 20:28 Edited at: 5th Oct 2007 20:30
Ouch.... Best delete all of my pirate Britney Spears albums then and all of the Aqua ones too...

Would have been cheaper to buy the albums instead I guess?

Though it's very excessive, I mean when people get off better with bigger crimes like drink driving etc. Somebody hasn't got their priorities right...

I shot the sheriff
5867Dude
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 20:28 Edited at: 5th Oct 2007 20:29
Man, It was just 24 songs! I thought to get a fine like that you'd have to download 1,000's of songs.

EDIT:Sepuku you posted at the same time!

Jeff032
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 20:37
Quote: "had distributed 1,702 songs online "


Only 24 songs, but to lots of people.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 20:39 Edited at: 5th Oct 2007 20:43
Yeah, I was her lawyer I would have argued she download/copied 24 songs from other users so should pay 24 x £2.99 (the cost they lost in single sales to her). Ok she had more songs but most people don't even realise they are sharing them after the finish downloading and the fine is excessive.

If other people copied her files I personaly think they should go after those who downloaded them and as them to pay.

I hope she's poor and don't own her own home otherwise she could lose it now

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
tha_rami
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 20:50
What a nonsense...


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Samoz83
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 20:53
so can you be done for downloading and not sharing then?

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Lukas W
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 21:03
Quote: "so can you be done for downloading and not sharing then?"

In Sweden, or maybe it was Norway, there was a rule that you are allowed to download but not share.
I don't know if this rule still apply, but if it does, it really suck.

How many wouldn't then download from a different country?

I allways afraided from a clowns. aww..
Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 22:01
In Spain its legal download songs, movies and also books (not software or games) for personal only use, Due to one law in our constitutions that says: Everyone must have access to culture

Many book writers started to give their books for free on their webs among with the paper versions.


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da power pwnerer
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 22:26
You're lucky


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da power pwnerer
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 23:26
She was fined $57.94 per song distributed as well as her 24 songs... I think..


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Jeku
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 01:34
Quote: "If other people copied her files I personaly think they should go after those who downloaded them and as them to pay."


It never works that way. They go after the drug dealer, not the drug users.

In Canada it's legal to share music, as we pay a little bit extra levy per blank CD/DVD purchase.

Oraculaca
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 01:49
Quote: "In Canada it's legal to share music, as we pay a little bit extra levy per blank CD/DVD purchase."


That sounds like a good way to do it. If only other countries did it that way (or brought down the price of albums)

Grandma
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 02:11
Quote: "In Sweden, or maybe it was Norway, there was a rule that you are allowed to download but not share."


Yes, it's here (might very well be Sweden too). I don't know either though if it still applies. i've downloaded plenty of songs, but when i come across something good, i usually buy the CD if i can find it or else i can't sleep at night.

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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 03:14
It's a USA case. I read about it before it went to trial. She had been repeatedly warned by the plaintiffs to stop making the files available. She could have gotten off for peanuts. She apparently had a relavative who was a lawyer, and certainly not a copyright specialist, who thought there would be some sympathy, for what I'm not sure. If subsequent reports suggest that this was some sort of incredibly unjust verdict, I'll look at the actual pleadings and other court documents on the net and report back. I'm a copyright lawyer by trade for over 30 years and I can get at them fast.

I see every now and then some general news blurb about a case that suggests that the music industry is picking on little people. After reviewing the unreported facts, it is always the case that nobody is going after them for downloading, but rather for making available copies for others to illegally download from them, that they are given the chance to get off almost scott free if they will stop, that they don't stop, that they decide to slug it out on some theory that they are in the right, and find out the hard way that they are in the wrong. It is usually 100% based on bad legal advice rather than responsible legal advice.
GatorHex
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 03:23 Edited at: 6th Oct 2007 13:58
The question that bugs me is who made a copy?

If person A has a file on their computer and person B copies it their own hard drive, surely person B comitted the crime of copying it?

If I came you your house and used your Aqua CD to make a copy surely you shouldn't take the rap for my crime?

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 03:56
Hmmm, if the Person B does so without Person A knowledge, then they'd be in wrong. However, is person A knowingly copies the file for Person B, then I'd expect it'd be on person A's shoulders.

Plystire
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 04:20
You can't stop these things from happening without taking away certain "rights" from the general public.

I say, if you can't take the fact that your songs are going to be up on the internet within 2 weeks of your records release, then don't be a musician! And charging ONE person for an insane amount of money for copying some songs isn't going to stop the REST of the planet!


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Venge
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 05:22
I hope they don't find out about my friend's downloads then (14,000 songs and counting...)
Keo C
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 05:23
Quote: "Woman fined £100,000 for file sharing 24 songs!"

Good.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
da power pwnerer
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 00:29
@venge - lol, hed get fined like.... $812,000... that poor n00b


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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 10:13
I have to say I have no sympathy for her. From everything I have read she had over 1700 songs available for download but the industry only pursed 24 of the songs. The jury was allowed to award damages of from $750 to $30,000 per son and chose some figure like $9,000 per song as the fine.

The problem with file sharing like this (IMO) is that even though it may be a drop in the bucket to a huge company smaller artists, who can now self publish effectively, can see a huge loss. Also if the RIAA doesn't start protecting its material they could find themselves hurt later on as a "past practice" sort of thing. Lastly file sharing costs people like me, those who actually buy things, more money.

Accoun
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 10:36
Quote: "In Spain its legal download songs, movies and also books (not software or games) for personal only use"

Most of my manga and anime is downloaded, because it's legal until they're licensed in my country...

Make games, not war.

Kentaree
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 11:25
I've no problem with the fact that she got caught, but the fine is excessive, especially considering the people who downloaded the music probably wouldn't have paid for it anyway.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 15:14 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 15:15
It all boils down to the fact that she committed a crime (no matter how excessive the punishment seems or how ridiculous it is that she just happened to be the next target), and from what you guys are saying she had plenty of warning and they actually showed her leniency in this matter. I can't say my record is clean when it comes to downloading software or music, but that's only because I, at the time, couldn't afford these things I wanted. I am going back and buying as much of this stuff as I can, whenever I can. Trying to right my wrongs I suppose

Pyramid Games Ltd
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 15:23
Quote: "In Spain its legal download songs, movies and also books (not software or games) for personal only use"


I am pretty sure US can download songs only.

Kentaree
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 15:28
Quote: "It all boils down to the fact that she committed a crime"


Yes, however, isn't it worrying that because of what she did she'll most likely live in extreme poverty for the rest of her life, will someone who kills someone can finish their punishment in less than 10 years?

Also, the RIAA themselves have broken the law a number of times when trying to contact people, like when they contacted a 10 year old girl in school pretending to be her grandparent. I personally think they should be given huuuuuuge fines for that, or told that if they break the law, they can't go after other people who do the same.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 15:41
You raise good points Kentaree. I don't follow the RIAA at all so I have no idea of any corruption that exists. Also, yes, murderers usually get off too easy 90% of the time and yes, this crime's punishment is probably pretty excessive in comparison.

Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 17:58
Quote: "Yes, however, isn't it worrying that because of what she did she'll most likely live in extreme poverty for the rest of her life, will someone who kills someone can finish their punishment in less than 10 years?"


not really they cannot make you pay what you do not have (ask OJ). If a judgement would push someone into poverty they get away without paying a dime until such time as they can pay, file bankruptcy, or the judge issues another decree which they can ignore.

I know people do not think what she did is a big deal, but imagine for a moment your job, whatever it is, faced a similar situation. If you were say a fry cook and people could suddenly start downloading hamburgers for free (remember I said imagine ) what would that do to your buisness. the same thing might apply large chains like Mcdonalds would feel a severe pinch probably laying off thousands, but the small restaraunt owner would get killed.

Jonny_S
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 18:11
Quote: "start downloading hamburgers for free"

That would be the greatest invention ever...

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 20:21
I wish I could download cheeseburgers... I'd be soooo fat by now

Zappo
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 15:02 Edited at: 10th Oct 2007 15:03

Mmmmm

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dark coder
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 15:32 Edited at: 10th Oct 2007 15:32
You mean:



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Benjamin
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 15:34 Edited at: 10th Oct 2007 15:39
Ohhhh...



Though the broadband burger does look rather tasty...

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dark coder
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 15:40 Edited at: 10th Oct 2007 15:41
...hhhhO



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Benjamin
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 15:42 Edited at: 10th Oct 2007 15:42
Ouch man, harsh. You just had to take it too far didn't you.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 15:46
I dunno, all I can think of is those American burgers look much more tasty. Hungry now...

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Grandma
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 15:58
Oh dear, i leave the forum for a day and come back only to witness this? downloading hamburgers?

*Leaves for another day*

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 17:30
*Illegally downloads burgers.
*Eats so much he kills himself.
*Is satisfied with life.

bitJericho
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 09:44
Quote: "
The problem with file sharing like this (IMO) is that even though it may be a drop in the bucket to a huge company smaller artists, who can now self publish effectively, can see a huge loss. Also if the RIAA doesn't start protecting its material they could find themselves hurt later on as a "past practice" sort of thing. Lastly file sharing costs people like me, those who actually buy things, more money."


Perhaps you should start thinking of new revenue streams. Illegal downloading will never, ever, stop. Ever. It's always been there too, this is not a new thing.

Instead, why don't you make it easy for people to download songs for a small fee. Amazon.com's bucking the trend and has a drm free mp3 store with a lot of music. I think it's a good step forward.

But there will still be people out there who will steal it, and you will never stop it.

Why not offer something for them? Maybe a 30 second ad and they can have the song for free. No one's going to spend the time figuring out a way around that, when they can legally have a song and only have to listen to an ad to get it.

Quite frankly, 99 cents a song is simply too much for a lot of people. And many of those people who can't afford it will always steal it.


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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 11:07 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 11:17
Quote: "Quite frankly, 99 cents a song is simply too much for a lot of people. And many of those people who can't afford it will always steal it."


I agree there will always be those who steal and I hope this judgement will make some people think and those who still want to steal the music deserve any penalty they get.

If 99 cents a song is too expensive for someone then they probably should not have a computer, internet service, and/or an mp3 player to begin with. Right now people are downloading songs they would never consider purchasing and get them only because they get them for free. I buy cd's since I like having a physical copy last thing I want is a hard drive crash and to lose a bunch of music I would need to buy all over again. I only buy about 5-10 cd's a year however and listen to alot of internet radio.

Edit: Darkcoder, the burger you describe as American is the burger from the little girls meal that comes with a barbie doll, it also comes with a 2 lb box of fries, 48 ounce cola, and half an apple pie.

Zappo
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 13:16 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 13:17
Quote: "Illegal downloading will never, ever, stop. Ever. It's always been there too, this is not a new thing."

True. And before that, using a twin tape hifi to copy audio cassettes was something just about everyone did.
Personally, I think that the only people who should be prosecuted are those making money from these copies. The music industry isn't doing themselves any favours by jumping on the small home listener. They simply make themselves look big and evil and make more people want to 'stick it to the man' (so to speak).
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 20:29
Quote: "True. And before that, using a twin tape hifi to copy audio cassettes was something just about everyone did."


True, but those blanks tapes cost you something and you might pass them on to a friend or two, downloads are free and one person purchasing the song can lead to 35,000 people having it. there is quite a difference in the money they are losing between the two.

5867Dude
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 22:26
I don't think that no matter how threatning the court is there will still be people illegally donwloading songs. Anyway to be honest it's not as bad as murder or anything.

bitJericho
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 19:44
Quote: "I only buy about 5-10 cd's a year however and listen to alot of internet radio."


I assume you only buy 5-10 cds a year because this is what you can afford. There are many people out there who listen to music but can't afford any more than you, and they might choose to download the songs they like for free, instead of not having it altogether.

Considering they wouldn't have bought it otherwise, you're not really missing out are you The truth is, indie music is incredibly hard to find anyway, you'd never be able to steal it. And if you did, it's likely you woulda never heard of them until you got their music.

The only people who are hurt by illegal downloading are the rich superstars.


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5867Dude
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 21:53
Quote: "The only people who are hurt by illegal downloading are the rich superstars."

But rich superstars are rich so I don't think they care about some profit lost. And they still get big amounts of money anyway!

Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 13th Oct 2007 02:03
Quote: "I assume you only buy 5-10 cds a year because this is what you can afford."


yes and no, I could afford more but there are only that many that I deem worth my hard earned moolah. Last CD I purchased was Straight outta Lynwood, been about 5-6 months since I have heard anything that inspired me to buy.

5867Dude
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Posted: 15th Oct 2007 22:05
Quote: "Straight outta Lynwood"

I like the 'don't download this song' and 'white and nerdy!'

Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 16th Oct 2007 10:25
so many good songs on the album ( I love confessions part III), my wife and I went to see him in August and got 2nd row seats from his website. The show was great and the seats were right at the stage (no security section) I could have leaned forward and tied Al's shoe laces. He actually just did 3 shows in my area and is coming back again in about 5 months so we can see him again.

demons breath
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Posted: 16th Oct 2007 17:07
1. Indie music REALLY ISN'T that hard to find. You might have to get in contact with the bands (I've had to send cheques to the house of the singer of one unsigned Scottish Death Metal band in the past) but you can get the music.

2. It's not just rich superstars who are affected. The record labels are affected, which will (if the problem continues to grow) have innumerable effects on the music production industry.

3. I've downloaded music in the past - but you should really only do it to decide if you like an artist enough to buy their cds - I've bought CDs in the past where I already had digital versions of every single song on it (like The Bled's Pass The Flask); buying CDs shows your support for the band, can get their music more widely known, etc.

4. Weird Al? I liked Weenie In A Bottle and Amish Paradise when I was like 11, "which backstreet boy is gay" was always good for a laugh in year 8 and one of my little sisters likes "That's your horoscope for today" but... do you not find it really immature?

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