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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / ALIENWARE RESULTS HERE!

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Guruchild
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 09:54 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 09:56
1st Place - Room War
2nd Place - Roswell Racer
3rd Place - Cow Abductor
4th Place - X-Truder
5th Place - Operation: Invasion Evasion
6th Place - ETV Racer
7th Place - The Last Huntsman
8th Place - Alien Rampage
9th Place - AlienGP
10th Place - Operation Genocide

It's up at http://developer.thegamecreators.com/?gf=newsletter_issue_13

And I just want to say its sad the games weren't judged on the full scope of the criteria listed on the entry page. These results are the biggest crock I've ever seen. No offense to the judges.

I have a sign beside my door-hinge, that says nothing rhymes with orange.

Soul Defender: 95% 3d Solar System Simulator: 75% GodMode RPG: 5%
Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 10:01
lol, another post!! I'll just C&P my other reply:

I didn't enter so I consider my opinion to not be bias at all, but there were quite a few I didn't agree with. For the most part, the games were very repetitive with not much variety as you got into it. Having said that, congratulations to those that placed anyway.

I'll also add:

Yes, I agree, the results did seem a little out of whack in relation to the criteria. The strangest thing I noticed was the main criteria was 'gameplay' and most of the winning entries got very boring, very quick. I can't say the others were much better because I haven't played them all but there must have been at least one that had a lot more variety.

P.S. Did anyone else notice Lee's comments for #1 and #8?


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Chris K
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 10:04
#8? That's me! Whoop whoop whoop

Guruchild
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 10:10 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 10:16
Yeah, I noticed Lee's comments. And I realize in their hurry or whatever they took the time to write an indivual response to each one of them. Except it was just the same paste he copied before, and forgot about or something. Classy.

If they spent about as much time writing reviews for the entries as they did playing them, then that explains the results. I coulda gotten the same feedback looking at a screenshot of my game.

I have a sign beside my door-hinge, that says nothing rhymes with orange.

Soul Defender: 95% 3d Solar System Simulator: 75% GodMode RPG: 5%
Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 10:14
The especially interesting bit is that the 35,000 points doesn't really apply at all. Even just removing that would have satisified me.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Van B
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 11:32
Guru,
Do you mean that the alien model implimentation did'nt seem to make any difference to the judging?


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Guruchild
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 12:57 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 13:14
No, I mean the alien model implementation, the gameplay, graphics, sound, and presentation. I may have missed some, can't remember them all off the top of my head.

It just seems blasphemous an entry which was stated as "starts to lose the fun aspect after 5-10 minutes" would be ranked above all other entries, considering I believe Gameplay was the #2 most important criterion behind use of the alien. I've played every single entry I've downloaded, around 15-20, for at LEAST 10 minutes.

Something is amiss here. I believe the judging was highly biased, the real reason isn't clear and probably never will be but I would wager a guess that there wasn't enough time for them to give more accurate and appropriate results. I'm not speaking because of how my entry did, either.

However, it takes at least 20-25 minutes to complete my game and get the full story which explains the whole thing which of course seemed "quirky" as it would to anyone who doesn't play it long enough to get the whole story. What fun is a game if you know exactly everything that is going on the first time you play it? Learning the purpose as you go is much more satisfying.

Aside from that it's called creativity. That's the thing that makes someone create a game that is a little different because someone had the forward thinking to approach a familiar problem (gaming) with a new persective. I was actually quite insulted by the use of the phrase "tried theme" they used to describe my game. It is totally abstract and aside from the basic premise, was created on the fly. Maybe I'm wrong, but it is definitely not like any other game. They also failed completely to mention one of the primary challenges of the game, when aliens come out of the souls you shoot and come after you. This leads me to believe they never even bothered to play any of the updated submissions I sent. I was also disappointed that most of my comments were simply copy/pasted from my own Readme file I sent with the game.

Yeah, I'm ready to admit I'm very disappointed. At myself, at the judges, and in general, but I feel better now.

And by the way, whats with this stupid f*cking flash sh*t that plays whenever I visit the forums? You can't close it for about 15 seconds and it appears over everything including my desktop! My desktop is not on the list of places internet applications are allowed to hijack!

Soul Defender: crapped Solar System Simulator: scrapped GodMode RPG: scrapped
Rob K
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:12 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 13:36
Dear me - Lee needs to play games more often. He stated that both Roswell Racer and Alien Racer were "insanely hard". Roswell Racer was perfect in terms of difficulty on the first level, and too easy on the second and third levels (my non-PC gamer siblings concur). Alien Racer doesn't even approach "insane".


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K1W1
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:22
I was happy with the review my game "Ascender" got. Thanks to whoever wrote it (Lee?)

I tried to make it as original, playable & varied as I could & spent most of the 3-4 months on the gameplay & had little time left for the graphics, so it wasnt as polished as it could be.

Even though I've got some sympathy with Exeat's comments, I'm not going to complain. I had a blast writing my game & feel pretty proud of it. The winning entries that I've played are all very polished and have been put together by some very talented people. Congratulations to the RoomWar crew.

Hopefully there'll be more competitions to win DBPro in the future, especially as I've got more chance of winning it then being able to afford it(stupid exchange rate ).
Van B
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:26
I had that until I got rid of a whole load of spyware on my machine.

I suggest going online for a free spyware removal app, just make sure the spyware removal app is not spyware itself. I'd suggest the one I used, but I had to pay for it to remove the spyware.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:33
Those are the same thoughts that were running through my mind Guru, so don't worry, you're not alone and I didn't enter anything so they're not bias at all. Would you mind telling us the name of your entry so we can have a look though?

Quote: "And by the way, whats with this stupid f*cking flash sh*t that plays whenever I visit the forums? You can't close it for about 15 seconds and it appears over everything including my desktop! My desktop is not on the list of places internet applications are allowed to hijack!"


Also, that doesn't happen to me so like Van suggests, it's most likely spyware of some type. Get Ad-Aware or some other app to scan your machine.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Robin
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:35
Quote: "Alien Racer doesn't even approach "insanse"."

too right it doesn't
i was afraid it was too difficult - set the difficulty to easy and my 8 year old brother can win!!!!

http://www.thegameszone.tk | [email protected]
Rob K
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:37
I admit that I came in 3rd and 3rd respectively in Roswell & Alien Racer first time through. But I came first in the second or third go, which to my mind seems about right.


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Guruchild
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:40
That's strange. I only get it when I come to this site, and never anywhere else on the web. I run all my checking stuff once a week or so, nothing there. I'll investigate that matter further though.

My entry was Soul Defender.

At any rate congratulations is on order for us all, not just the rankees. It felt like more of a lottery anyway.

Soul Defender: crapped Solar System Simulator: scrapped GodMode RPG: scrapped
DrakeX
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:43
lol what is it with lee and 35000 points? incredible.

no guys, they didn't have time to work on the reviews because they're working soooooo hard on FPS creator after all that's the product everyone wants to use!

athlon xp 2000+ | radeon 9500 pro 128mb | 512MB DDR | winXP pro | DBP 5.1b | B3D 1.85 | VC++ 6
predicted DBP P6 release date: March 28, 2004
DBP has made me bitter.
Robin
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:45
i'm not meaing to sound bitter, but to say
Quote: ""Game starts to lose the fun aspect after 5-10 minutes""

about room war, and then giving it first prize is a complete joke. - I remember Rich saying "The games are to be judged on gameplay alone" in a previous post, and in previous newsletters the hints were to spend the time before the closing date tweaking gameplay, not graphics. #2 on the list of judging criteria - Gameplay.
I mean roomwar is a good game, don't get me wrong, but IMHO i don't think it should be first.

http://www.thegameszone.tk | [email protected]
PolyVector
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:46 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 13:47
Quote: "How will we Judge entries?
Your game will be judged according to the following criteria. They are in order of importance:
(1) The use of the Alien character
(2) Overall game play
(3) Presentation quality including graphics, music and sound effects. To clarify, by "use of the Alien character" we mean that the Alien should play a vital role in your game. He cannot just "appear" at the start never to be seen again. The Alien should be the central character / adversary in one way or another. We will be looking for constructive use of the Alien. For example just having him watch the pieces fall in a Tetris game would not be considered as innovative as having him racing a UFO around a landscape. Be imaginative."


Quote: "2. The game must feature the supplied 3D Alien model in a significant way."

They sure did SEEM to care about the "supplied 3D Alien model" before...
Did anybody see the supplied 3D Alien model in the 1st place entry?
I didn't :/
I hope Lee enjoys his new DBPromo material...
Quote: "In judging the short-list for this competition I was very careful to follow the criteria and rank my decisions according to these rather than my own personal favourite..."

*Bites Tounge*
Robin
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 13:49
apparently room war was originally not made for the competition, just at the end whoever made it randomly stuck an alien somewhere in it.

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Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 14:06
Quote: "They sure did SEEM to care about the "supplied 3D Alien model" before...
Did anybody see the supplied 3D Alien model in the 1st place entry?
I didn't :/"


I addressed this before the competition ended when RoomWar was posted in Program Announcements that the Alien must be a central character and it explicitly states it can't be shown for 2 seconds and then never to be seen again. Rich replied saying the Alienware PC was good enough. I'm pretty sure a lot of others would have liked to know that before they started their entries..


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PolyVector
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 14:12
Lee doesn't care about some silly competition... He wants to promote his software... It's simple as that...
I do wish he would have done a better job judging and used the other entries as showcase material...
Freddix
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 14:28 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 15:06
I will tell nothing . . .
I'm happy to be 4th . . . I know that some games have a better quality and are more "pro" than mine ( X-Truder ).
I know it's never easy to judge a competition.

but, on an other side,
I agreeing with some peoples that the 1st place isn't really merited. I should have placed Roswell Racer at 1st place.

I'm like some people for their games . Lee saying that he ran out of bullets after graveyards. I tested the game several times and added many bonus to give more bullets to be sure the game can be finished without too many difficult. and sended the game 2 times . . . The second upload contained more bonuses . . .
We can also tell many things about other games . . . Many of them are just " too repetitive" and when you passed 10 levels that are all the same ( without graphics changes but only lower-timer or some more speed ) it's not evident to accept that our game isn't in the head ( The 3 first places ) of the list but, it's like that. We all have different way of thinking.
Judges choose and we must accept.

The only thing I can really reproach to Lee is that one : "Game starts to lose the fun aspect after 5-10 minutes"
If it's first . Does it mean that others games lose fun aspect in a shorter delay ??? becare to what you tell Lee it can be interpreted in anyway by anyone . . .

If we always tell " you are crazy and don't respect the rules . . . " the only result we'll get will be that TGC will not give us more competition to do... But how's is interesting a competition that votes does not correspond to criterias ???
I think the problem must be centred on a balance between these 2 opposites things.

. . . In fact , I telled many

ESC_
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 14:35
I'm pretty happy with 2nd place
Congradulations to those who placed in the top ten, and everyone who entered!

Yo quiero ser anarquia
Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 14:52
Btw, Freddix, your game crashed after showing me that rainbow coloured screen at the start. Are you using any shaders or anything my gfx card might not be able to handle?


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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 14:52
Quote: ""3 days ago we lost contact with the ship UUS Rosy. Your mission is to go aboard and find out what happened to the 6 man crew." That is how this FPS adventure begins after you locate and read the note pad. You start with a blaster that can take out the aliens from quite a distance as you roam around the levels looking for hints and items to get you through the keycode locks and into the deeper chambers of the ship. This game has some really nice touches - the gangplanks and walk-ways allowing you to shoot down onto the aliens below, the keycard access panels, the neat "zoom" effect when you hover over items. It's refreshing to see an FPS with story elements woven together as well as this and with some graphical touches and music it would be a great game."


this just give me the filling that thay have not played my game for more then 5 mintens. for a start there no "zoom" effect when you hover over items. to be frank the RESULTS are full of error like that.

--Dr 0--

Philip
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 14:58
Enough moaning everyone please. Everyone should feel proud of what they achieved and, frankly, who cares what other people think of your games? You think they are great, had fun making them and learnt a lot in the process - thats what matters! I think you are all heroes! Yes, heroes!

Ok - group hug.

@Guru my ascerbic pal, chill. I've played your game and I thought it was great! Ok I can't give you an Alienware computer but you at least have the satisfaction of knowing a cartoon Bear likes your entry.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P1.3ghz / 384 megs / GeForce MX 5200 128meg / WinXP home
Freddix
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 15:08
Exeat : Sorry, I don't use shaders. Only standart effects. ( lights, fog, ambient light . . . )

but there are few problems that can't be determinated. On some computers, all objects are white. ( happened specially on some Geforce FX Video cards with 52.16 detonator and smally on some others configurations )

Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 15:16
Strange. Yours is the first game so far that's just crashed on me for no reason.


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Guruchild
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 15:21 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 15:27
@philip: So it's not appropriate to bring up negative points even if they are valid and warranted? Pretending undesirable things don't go on is no way to fix them. Besides, I was rather surprised to find many people agreed with my sentiments. Perhaps I took this competition wrong, but I was hoping to gain more "professional" comments and feedback regarding my game rather than the Readme I included spat back at me. I really appreciate your saying you liked my game, however that doesn't help me improve it if you know what I mean. I'm not uptight, overly bitter, or anything else you could misinterpret my words as. I'm just stating my opinions. Cheers.

And one more thing- I seem to recall now reading some forum posts where the author(s) of roomwar were like wow this wasn't for the alienware compo but now we are gonna find a way to stick an alien in there and enter it. So someone who really wasn't programming for the alienware competition, won the alienware competition. The bending of the criteria for one entry which also happened to be the winner also seemed rather indignified.

So anyway, if like, all the other entrants die and are unable to claim their prize does that mean I get it? Haha j/k

Soul Defender: crapped Solar System Simulator: scrapped GodMode RPG: scrapped
Van B
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 15:30
The situation is simple. We entered a competition that centered around a supplied alien model and implimenting it into a playable well presented game.

Now today we've learned that:
a) The alien model was not that important.
b) The presentation was the most important thing.
c) Even if one of the judges got bored after 15 minutes, the presentation was the most important thing.

Sorry if I sound a bit bitter, suppose I am - I got really annoyed when I read that they'd tweaked an existing engine to suit, after spending months on a completely new engine, making media, debugging, and all the other stuff that goes with game creation. I have a rough idea how much time and effort people put into their entry, but Roomwar was never even WIP, it just appeared on the forum for download weeks before the deadline. I reckon that the Alienware judges probably swayed Roomwar in favour of Roswell.

Another point is that this was supposed to be a compo for those that might not be too great a modelling and animation, hence the supplied alien - the was absolutely no chance of a game placing unless it had A1 graphics. Graphics have always been a bonus to me, I don't care too much about them, as long as the game is fun. For some reason I thought the judges were of the same opinion, but here was very little mention of anything but the graphics.

I think we have learned something, ignore the competition guidelines or save time and don't bother entering at all.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Robin
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 15:33
Quote: "this just give me the feeling that thay have not played my game for more then 5 mintens. for a start there no "zoom" effect when you hover over items. to be frank the RESULTS are full of error like that."

this just says it all - maybe they were rushed to write up all the reviews, but i would have gladly waited an extra week or so, if my game then got a real review.

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Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 15:42
Final Rant:

Well I'm sure we all expected there would be a couple upsets but I guess we didn't expect this many. Although Rich wasn't the only judge (), he was still the one that had to write up the newsletter so I guess he felt kind of rushed with his wedding (congratulations) coming up, there probably wasn't anyway he could delay it either without delaying it for another month or two at least and I'm sure people would have been more upset by the delay. Anyway, had the judges had a lot more time to thoroughly play each game then I'm sure the results would have been different but there's nothing we can do about that now, timing was just off I guess. I still don't agree with some of the results but like the 'rules' say, the judges decision is final...


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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 15:42
no graphics were key in this competition. the face is that the top 10 games are the top 10 best looking. i fill i`l have doen better if i hand a arted work for me.

--Dr 0--

Dave J
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 15:46
I didn't think Chris' entry was all too graphically enhanced (no offense) and Lee says that's his favourite. Perhaps there was confliction amongst the judges? I hear there were a couple guys from Alienware that were judging too so I suppose they were looking out for graphics more then gameplay. Just speculation.


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Chris K
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 15:55
My game looked like classic DBC crap - but I think it played very well. I'm stiff chuffed about getting a comment about my game (35000) on the Roomwar bit.

BatVink
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 15:59
My twopenneth, for what it's worth...

Game-making is as much an artform as it is technical. Art is always subjective, in the eye of the beholder as we say.

Most people will disagree with the judges...it's good that we are all different.

We should all be happy that our games were critiqued, considering the workload involved.

Unless a competition can be created that prevents old code and routines from being reused, the start line will never be the same for everyone. Put it down to experience, and be happy knowing that you too can reuse your Alienware code next time around.

BatVink (formerly StevieVee)
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Robin
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 16:01
yeah thats the main thing which gets me - how it seems like they just threw the newsletter together in no time at all without reading it through, and put reviews on the website which were often nothing to do with the game at all. I'd have prefered to hear the results later, if they were then justified and the games reviewed properly.

http://www.thegameszone.tk | [email protected]
Chris K
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 16:25
Can someone please save the newsletter and put it in a zip file and upload it somewhere - my internet won't let me see it and I want to see the comments for my game.

Freddix
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 16:33 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 16:42
no one of you think that it's possible that Alienware gived a deaddate ! So if TGC was obliged to answer fastly, how can they do ?

I think we should consider the incident as closed and hope TGC will make an independant review for all our games without regarding to the competition. So each game will be reviewed for what it is really!

Chris, Here it is :
Author/s: Damjan Minovski and Ervin Tahirovic
Language: DarkBASIC Professional
The concept is amazingly simple - fly around a room with your other alien buddies, protecting the stunning Alienware computer system in the corner from attack by the grey aliens. The action takes place from a cockpit view with an overlaid HUD, you can lock onto the baddies using the right mouse button and shoot them down with the left. Cursor keys control your speed. The first thing that strikes you about this game is its graphical beauty, everything has been meticulously created in 3D, from the Ikea style unit to the guitar to the sofa complete with trousers thrown over the back. When you start to play the game however you realise that this attention to detail extends beyond just the appearance, for the gameplay itself is silky smooth. Locking onto an alien and chasing him down through the twisting areas of the room, zooming past the orange juice carton, lazers blasting away and pulling up at the last minute over hi-fi system is just a vision to behold. There is no jarring collision detection, you don't die if you hit a wall, you slide around it. There are very few places you can get "stuck" and as you progress through the levels more and more ships appear, lazers flying everywhere as you pilot frantically around trying your best to chase the pesky little aliens as they twist and turn to evade you. The playability is up there with the best of them and this game is simply addictive - we kept on and on playing it until we had finished each level. Try this game for yourself to understand why it was the winner.
Lees Comments: Pros: Good gameplay, easy to get into and complete set of menus and game logic. Cons: Game starts to lose the fun aspect after 5-10 minutes. Due to nothing new happening even after 35,000. A good approach is to introduce something new as the game continues.
Mikes Comments: Pros: Very polished game, excellent use of the Alienware graphics, action packed game, good enemy AI. Cons: Some variety on the levels, wasn't always easy to lock onto targets.

And the showcase :
The concept is amazingly simple - fly around a room with your other alien buddies, protecting the stunning Alienware computer system in the corner from attack by the grey aliens. The action takes place from a cockpit view with an overlaid HUD, you can lock onto the baddies using the right mouse button and shoot them down with the left. Cursor keys control your speed. The first thing that strikes you about this game is its graphical beauty, everything has been meticulously created in 3D, from the Ikea style unit to the guitar to the sofa complete with trousers thrown over the back. When you start to play the game however you realise that this attention to detail extends beyond just the appearance, for the gameplay itself is silky smooth. Locking onto an alien and chasing him down through the twisting areas of the room, zooming past the orange juice carton, lazers blasting away and pulling up at the last minute over hi-fi system is just a vision to behold. There is no jarring collision detection, you don't die if you hit a wall, you slide around it. There are very few places you can get "stuck" and as you progress through the levels more and more ships appear, lazers flying everywhere as you pilot frantically around trying your best to chase the pesky little aliens as they twist and turn to evade you. The playability is up there with the best of them and this game is simply addictive - we kept on and on playing it until we had finished each level. Try this game for yourself to understand why it was the winner

So you have it now

Philip
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 16:55
@Guru. Thats fine. I fully understand your opinions and I will defend to the death (or, at least, the second to last lunch hamper) your right to state them. Indeed, I agree with much of what you and the others on here are saying but as I did not myself enter a game I do not think I have locus standi in this debate. So I've preferred to focus on the uncontentious positive.

As you invited them I've taken the liberty of posting some comments on Soul Defender onto the thread in the Programme Announcements forum.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P1.3ghz / 384 megs / GeForce MX 5200 128meg / WinXP home
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 17:19
A modified and not like the supplied alien does appear in the roomwar game, if you press pause you will see that it is your player character. Also your allied ships have the same model, you never see them, but it is a 'significant' implementation of the alien model.

I'm not bitter about the resutls at all because I feel my review was judged fairly. I was hoping I could make the top 10 with it but alas in the final order it did not deserve to place and that's that.

I think everyone who is bitter about the results is more pissed at their games own performance than they are about the actuall fairness of the competition: So roomwar won and you dont think it deserved to win? Is that because YOUR game is better or somebody elses.

From what I read above your all being a little bit "me me me". MY game did not get judged fairly etc. etc.

Yes it did. You know you have about half an hour to an hour to make an impact with the judges. You know damn well that in that time what they are looking for is good gameplay and polished games.

You are not going to win with a text adventure. Even if you spell correctly and develop a map bigger than ever used before.

You didn't win, (to all of you that did not win), because your game did not make the impact necessary to grab the judges attention and make them want to play it through ... into the time allocated for other entries.

That's what it takes to win, that's why roomwar won and that's why they knew the gameplay in roomwar never really varied.

I spent very little time on my entry at all, but you'll notice that the introduction sequence starts out to make an impact, you'll then note that the cinematics (of which there are two) are keyed to go off at about the point in gameplay at which I expected the judges to reach in the time allowed, by then they will have seen a big fight, a race sequence, and two bad guys with multi texture & shader effects. After that it is just bigger battles with more varied aliens, all the special effects are keyed to happen in the judging duration...

It's not cheating, it's not playing the odds. It is simply a case of designing a game to fit the criterea.

If your game takes an hour or more to get into to descover then you've already blown it. If your graphics are ropey then it is not going to get into the top placing. If your gameplay doesnt change much after half an hour then they just are not going to notice.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Guruchild
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 17:35
I can truly say I am not upset merely because my entry didn't place. I've already stated why. I state all my opinions here with the thought in mind that my entry does not count. I try to at least.

@Andy
Here is an example, believe it or not I was disappointed your entry didn't place. Well, maybe not so much disappointed as surprised.

Soul Defender: crapped Solar System Simulator: scrapped GodMode RPG: scrapped
Freddix
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 18:06 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 18:09
wow !

I found you really pretentious . . . ( sorry but it's really like I feel reading your comment )

We don't think your game is bad ! We never telled your game is bad ! so, don't modify the word to fit your needs.

Peoples telled that there are RULES. If you said someone "make a RPG Game and win the contest" and you make win a FPS game simply because your encounter 1 people in the game that tell you "hello" ( simulating a RPG game ) , there will be a problem ! And It's the same kind of problem they encountered here !
They never claimed that their game has "more qualities" than your !They only telled that your game does not correspond to the announced RULES for the competition !

I remind an older competition made by Guy Savoie.Telling He wanted we build generic Application and I Gives a modified release of 3DMapEditor.Of course it was an application but, too oriented DB and not enough generic. I was angry but at final, I understood . It was what judges should have done for your game . Rating it lower because it apparently not corresponding to the announced rules. and make win games that FIT THE RULES.

Of course your game is cool ! We know ! Many of others games are cool too ! but , on the duration, your game is played ( be Honest ! ) , of many percent of time will you see the alien ??? 0.1% ? 0.2% ? is it a significant use of the model ????
To be honest you CAN'T SAY "YES". It's the real problem ! Alien is ( apparently ) just an EXCUSE in your game and that's why peoples disagree with judging.
Peoples have the feeling to have been fooled by something that not correspond to what they signed for !
Imagine you sign a contract with your boss for something and at result you get something else that not correspond. You'll be angry ??? But I imagine you can only be happy . You win, it's normal. Only a fool could tell : <<I win, I think I don't merite that price.>>

but you are a bit too pretentious in the way you tackle the subject.

Personnaly, I'm happy to be 4th ( except that I even own DBPro but it's the prices ) . The last one before this I wasn't in the top ten so it's a good progression

But It's right that something is strange in that competition . . .

Van B
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 18:15
Freddix,
I think 4th place gets carto shop, DBpro, and DarkMATTER, not sure though, you should look into it. I already have Pro too, so I'm gonna ask for SoundMATTER and a packet of Jaffa Cakes instead.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Freddix
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 18:21 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 18:25
Lol , Of course, I've checked and Win a DBPro ( Of course, I have DM1 , DM2 , SM , DBv1 , DBPro so the list is smaller then )

But, There's no problem Van B, It's the rules and I Respect that !
From the beginning, I know that it's possible to win something I even own and I accept that case !

In fact, I will probably keep it hot and offer it at Price in the contest I'll try to organize when 3DMapEditor 3.00 will be out
PS : VanB yes, Sound matter are really cool packages I own them all . . . I will ask for Jaffa cakes too

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 18:29
You are perhaps calling me pretentious because you have mistaken me for the author of the game, this is incorrect. Please read the post again from the point of view of somebody who got a "noteable mention". .

What I have said I stand by, Roomwar won because it has impact, it has enough variety of gameplay for the duration the judges had for each game, and it was highly polished.

How can you say any other game was going to win on those criterea?

If you ever thought that making an epic game with hours and hours of gameplay was going to win a competition when you knew before you started the judging would be hectic and the competition fierce, then you where wrong.

Competitions are all about impact, instant playability, and polish.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Freddix
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 18:44
PS ( then sorry for the author for the mistake but the way it was asked was too implicated by Andy )

I remind you that there are written criterias !
The contest was organised by AlienWare, so it's normal that the 1st Criteria was the "good use of the alien"

If you participate to a contest where you must sing a "beatles" song, if you sing "Tears for fears" an wear a vest in the beatles look , you'll get disqualified ( I'll try to find figurative ways to explain you the problem ) Even if you sing better than other peoples, simply because you don't fit to the written rules.
If the organising people find you a special price to reward you, it can be cool but, it must not be the price planned for the initial rules or others contributors will have feeling to be fooled.

For games that have an excellent game play there are others, look Roswell Racer for example, It has excellent gameplay, fit perfectly to the rules, really nice.

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 20:00
The Room War game has wow factor. It is lavishly designed. Highly polished. Has what appears to be good gameplay (my PC a little too slow to tell) and has enough variety in the gameplay to last the duration of the judges testing it. It features the alien model quite lightly but makes up for it with the alienware PC - it definately adheres to the spirit of the rules in this respect if not very well to the letter of the rules.

It is the perfect competition entry, it has everything a competition winner needs, mostly that all important initial impact, "WOW".

I have yet to try all the entries or even all the winners so far, but I can hardly see how anyone can claim roomwar is not a superb competition game and that it is within the rules.

We have an expression in my country "sour grapes". It meens your bitter, and I think that is apt.

Dont get me wrong please, I really dont like the room wars game myself because at the speed my computer plays it I am still chasing the second bad guy after 5 minutes play - it is so slow it is dull. However the competition was judged on a high end PC - we all knew that beforehand, and I hear the gameplay is good on fast systems.

I have to cede it has everything a judge would be looking for and from the other games I have played so far it has them in far greater abundance - leagues ahead of the rest of the competition.

To disclaim it for gameplay when it reputedly has very good short term gameplay is futile... You know the judges are not going to play the games for an extended period, therefor it has excellent gameplay.

It doesnt make as good use of the alienware model as it could, but it definately compensates for this with its alienware theme - and there is an alien model there (although I was being quite sarcastic in my original post but I dont think every one cottoned on to that ! ). It fullfills the spirit of that rule, if not the letter. What is more, it doesnt just make alienware part of the game, it makes the game part of alienware - you gripe that it does not conform to the rules in this respect but really it is pissing on the rest of us from a great height! How can you deny that I dont know...

Well I do, sour grapes.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Freddix
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 20:17 Edited at: 20th Jan 2004 20:27
False Indy.

I mention what was writtent here :
http://www.thegamecreators.com/?gf=alienware
k

Take a look to be sure I'm not a liar if you want !
Quote: "
Your game will be judged according to the following criteria. They are in order of importance: (1) The use of the Alien character (2) Overall game play (3) Presentation quality including graphics, music and sound effects. To clarify, by "use of the Alien character" we mean that the Alien should play a vital role in your game. He cannot just "appear" at the start never to be seen again. The Alien should be the central character / adversary in one way or another. We will be looking for constructive use of the Alien. For example just having him watch the pieces fall in a Tetris game would not be considered as innovative as having him racing a UFO around a landscape. Be imaginative.
"

where does it appear else than on beginning ?
So Criteria 1 is obsolete for that game.

more :
Quote: "
We judge game-play on a number of factors: (1) How "fun" is the game to play (2) How "easy" is the game to start playing and understand (3) How responsive is the game. By "easy" and "responsive" we mean for example: "Did we struggle with the controls so badly that the game was just rendered unplayable or was control so smooth that we blasted around with ease?" Or was the game so hard that is wasn't a fair challenge (or so easy that it finished within minutes). Your game should be well balanced and sufficiently long enough as to be fun to play. Finally we will be looking at the quality of presentation. Not how well the graphics are drawn, but how well they are used in the game. Do they move about smoothly, do they fade on nicely and are they presented in an imaginative way? Do the sound effects fit in with the overall game style? These sort of things are paramount to the success of your entry.
"

Enough long to be as fun to play . . . 1 only kind of levels . . k
Finally we will . . .
Quote: "(3) Presentation quality including graphics"
So it's the last then the less important parameter !

cool
so that game is enough long to be as fun to play but
Quote: "Game starts to lose the fun aspect after 5-10 minutes"
cool

resuming.
The alien appear 5s in the entire game.
it become boring after 5 minutes so it correspond exactly to the rules ! Funny ! Amazing . Strange...

I don't doubt on the quality of the game. I can tell that it's more "pro" than mine and than some others one but, You're wrong. IT DON'T FIT TO THE MENTIONED RULES.
here is where the problem is.

But that discuss is useless because Judges choice is final...

I will not reply to this because I've even too talked about these things.I should let peoples talk for themselves.

ZomBfied
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 20:29
I agree that the roomwar game had what it takes to win a contest like this. For sure it beats Roswell Racer in every way.
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 20th Jan 2004 21:11
You are controlling the alien, if you press pause you get an external view and in addition your wingmen also have the same graphic. You are the alien, you fly alongside friendly aliens. The alien model appears for more than a few seconds, it appears throughout the game.

In addition the alienware theme is so strong throughout this game - as I mentioned above - it is well within the spirit of the rules. Whereas most of us just included a little bit of alienware in our games, this game is alienware through and through.

With respect to this aspect of the judging roomwar is not in breach of the rules, it is standing head and shoulders above us and dribbling upon us from a great height. If you are missing it, you are arguing for the sake of it, play it again and see if you cannot spot the theme.

Quote: "Not how well the graphics are drawn, but how well they are used in the game"


Just because the graphics where top notch does not meen they where not used well, they where. There was nothing peripheral in the graphics, you could fly around everything, through chairs, under tables... They scored highly here and yet you slate the game for this purely because it is also pretty. It's graphics are a bonus, but it also scores well on using the graphics.

Quote: "(3) Presentation quality including graphics"


No it is the third most important parameter and the game does score highly here. The least important parameters are those that where not mentioned, configureable controls, optional graphics settings, playability on slower machines etc... These where the least important parameters for the judging, and had no influence on the result. Notably Roomwar would have scored badly if they where being judged, but that is not the case.

Quote: "Game starts to lose the fun aspect after 5-10 minutes"


Game starts to lose the fun aspect after 5-10 minutes. Just how long where you expecting the judges to dedicate to each game? I figure about half an hour, or more if they where really enjoying it. Perhaps I over estimated, or maybe after 30 minutes they where still playing roomwar but just not with quite the same zeal as when they first started.

Quote: "IT DON'T FIT TO THE MENTIONED RULES."


Cite a rule that it breaches, and prove that it is in breach of those rules without talking utter nonsense.

You lost, just accept it and learn why you lost so that the next competition you can rate higher.


God created the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.

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