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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Canada shafted by the U.S.

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Jeku
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 06:04 Edited at: 1st Sep 2005 06:05
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The U.S. has been illegally charging tariffs on Canada's softwood lumber exports for over 5 years, and have collected approximately $5 billion. The WTO has recently ruled on 5 different occasions that the extra cost is illegal--- something that has costed my province thousands of jobs and dozens of companies, and that they have to pay Canada back. After all, wood is my province's largest export.

During the meetings between our two countries, in both the U.S. and Canada, Washington's ambassador has chided Canada several times, calling us emotional and blatantly tossing us off, refusing to pay the money back.

This is unnerving to all Canadians, especially the attitude that "hey, we're bigger than you so we can break rules left, right and centre and not have to pay the consequences."

I say to America: either pay up or leave NAFTA. I mean, why be in an organization if you don't follow the rules? I can't join the Boy Scouts and break the rules without consequences.

What I'd like to see is some support from Americans, as I haven't seen any yet. If our prime minister doesn't step up to the plate and demand compensation from George Bush himself (which I fear he may not as election time is near), then I will join the B.C./Alberta separatist party

Sorry for the rant, but I had to get it out there because I honestly don't think regular Americans even know what's going on, as it probably doesn't affect them personally as it does us.

EDIT:

Sorry, here's some links to read over.

http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/eicb/softwood/menu-en.asp
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/business/article_1045024.php/WTO_rules_for_U.S._in_softwood_dispute
http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=12479

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UnderLord
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 07:01
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Thats bush for you i hate the guy personally only because he has a lower IQ then me and thats sad.....

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 07:19
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That's really stupid. I'm sorry my country is run by a**holes.

Here's one american you've got support from.


I'm going to eat you!
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 10:59
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Quote: "either pay up or leave NAFTA"


And I thought everyone in the world new our goverment is not to be trusted. How did they even let us in NAFTA?

If I were yall, I would stop selling to us. I too would be emotional about $5 billion.

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RegenProZ
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 11:17
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Politics...Politics, bunch of scams, lies, all year round!

I hate Politics, I hate govements.

Jackasses like these guys really should be thrown in prision...

It's OK for the goevement to do that, but if some other company did it, it's like, no no, sorry, your not allowed to do that!

The only govement i'll ever respect is Chruchill.

"Why do people depend on each other? In the end you're on your own." - Squall
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 12:12
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America does like to shaft everyone else...

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Fallout
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 13:28
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I guess now you guys have a slight insight into how most of the middle east feels.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 14:23
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Quote: "I guess now you guys have a slight insight into how most of the middle east feels"


And how most Americans feel, our goverment treats us no better. I pay in $10000 in taxes each year and see little to show for it. Gas is also about to go to $4.50 a gal or more here, because Bush waited until 2 days after the hurricane shut everything down to release the reserves for use.

And what is even worse than that is the fact that Bush was the better of the candidates we had to pick from. We never get good candidates and we don't have a re-pick candidates check box on our voting ballots.

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AluminumPork
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 14:25
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Yep, sorry, America does have a tendency to do things, but we're learning, we're still young.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 15:43
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Quote: "I too would be emotional about $5 billion."


I'd be homicidal, but that wouldn't be very canadian.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it's larger than 600x120...
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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 16:05
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Quote: "or leave NAFTA."

I say that is a damn good idea for America.

Quote: " Thats bush for you i hate the guy personally only because he has a lower IQ then me and thats sad....."

I agree in saying that Bush is a moron, but you still cannot blame every decision on him. Almost all decisions have to be agreeed upon by many other people for anything to happen, so although I think Bush is a friggen moron and should never have been a president(nor shoulda that other guy though), give him a break, everyone seems to think that he completely controls the government

"Dark Basic rocks! Although the things you can do are not as dynamic as C++, just think how long it would take to do the same thing! I can get FPS of over 60!"
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 16:38
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I feel the world's pain for having to deal with America but youre seeing the just the beginings of the neocon agenda. Please remember that you're not dealing with intelligent rational people, youre dealing with fascist neoconservative religious-right morons. Unfortunately everything is currently in the republican majority, the house, the senate, the supreme court, the white house - everything. The only thing not in the republican majority is Bush's approval rating (43% now? less?) It's quite funny since Clinton had a 63% approval rating during his impeachment for getting hummers in the white house.

Good luck to the rest of the world during this 8 years (maybe 6 if we get a democratic senate and yank bush out) of utter and complete darkness.

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MicroMan
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 17:46
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Well, as I understand it - in the US all politics is local politics anyway. Foreign policy is not something that most americans are very interested in to start with, and when there comes a choice for a congressman or senator to choose between having US lumberjacks or Canadian lumberjacks losing their jobs the choice is simple.

That, however, is not a uniquely US phenomenon. I guess coalminers in the UK wouldn't lose a lot of sleep if the UK government decided to protect them with unfair tariffs.

I think most europeans think of the US as a european country with a fairly strong central government which can use muscle both domestically and abroad. However, the US government is - in comparison to european countries - fairly week inside the US. Most power lies with the state and local governments. It's only in foreign policy that the US government can use all its muscle.

And the misconception that europeans have about the US government leads to puzzlement about what the heck is going on inside the US. Why doesn't the US government act rationally? We forget that all US politicians cater to local opinion, as the US politicians are a lot harder bound to their constituencies than european politicians are.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 19:01
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*sits back and waits for mouse/IanT to say that jeku is bs'ing, or that where he learnd this information from is a biased news source, or say something about it being true, but for the good of humanity*

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JoelJ
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 19:15
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Quote: "Sorry for the rant, but I had to get it out there"

not trying to offend you Jeku, becuase i think you're a great guy...but, posting this on a little game devoloping board isnt going to 'get it out there'

Quote: "Thats bush for you "

and i'm sure Bush had everything to do with it...it was HIS idea, HIS doings, HIS everything, because the president of the USA has EVERYTHING to do with EVERYTHING.

Quote: "If our prime minister doesn't step up to the plate and demand compensation from George Bush himself "

and i love how people dont realize that Bush isnt the ruler of the country, he doesnt make all the decisions.

Quote: "Good luck to the rest of the world during this 8 years "

if you're talking about 4 more years of republican, i think you're wrong, there's no chance there's going to be a republican win next election.

Quote: "Thats bush for you i hate the guy personally only because he has a lower IQ then me and thats sad....."

you saying that, just proves you are a moron.
think of what he HAS done. you need to stop checking your biases for opionions on him, and start looking at what he has done RIGHT. and the first person to say "he's done nothing right" is a complete ignorant moron.
He's removed a man from a position in the world in which he did not belong (Sadam) with the help from another country (UK, but yet, no one bashes on them...)

not every person in the world is perfect
not every country in the world is perfect

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ionstream
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 19:59
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Quote: "I feel the world's pain for having to deal with America but youre seeing the just the beginings of the neocon agenda. Please remember that you're not dealing with intelligent rational people, youre dealing with fascist neoconservative religious-right morons. Unfortunately everything is currently in the republican majority, the house, the senate, the supreme court, the white house - everything. The only thing not in the republican majority is Bush's approval rating (43% now? less?) It's quite funny since Clinton had a 63% approval rating during his impeachment for getting hummers in the white house."



CattleRustler, do you think that just because your a mod that your somehow wiser than everyone else here? You dont "feel" anything, you're just relaying what you hear from BBC.

FYI everyone, America has been doing great since Bush took office, you all are just so closed minded and liberal "fanboys," so to speak, that you cant see it, or you just hate it. High gas prices are the Gas companies fault, remember the Enron scam?

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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 20:01
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The USA put something like a 50% illegal tariff on steel imports a while ago. Europe threatened tit-for-tat tariffs and America decided the American steel industry was ok now and need no more financial help; the tariffs were dropped.


The word "Gullible" cannot be found in any English Dictionary.
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Briere
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 20:07 Edited at: 1st Sep 2005 20:09
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If we leave NFTA who is left? Mexico isnt exactly the richest country in the world.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 20:11
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Quote: "think of what he HAS done."

But what HAS be done ? What initives has he started ? How has he enhanced "The American Dream" ? What has he done elsewhere to make life better ?

Come to the third DarkBasic Pro Sci Fi Con - Be there and be square
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 20:14
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America sucks. Here is (yet another) reason I wish I lived in the uk.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 20:22
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Quote: "CattleRustler, do you think that just because your a mod that your somehow wiser than everyone else here? You dont "feel" anything, you're just relaying what you hear from BBC."


A) I don't listen to the BBC
B) I don't think I am wiser than anyone here or anywhere else
C) I am an american whos lived on this earth 35 years and have been around for enough of american politics to know what I am talking about as it pertains to ME.

Sorry I didnt precede my rant with "IMHO", then again, isnt that implied, always, for everything everyone says here?

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 20:31
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Quote: "The USA put something like a 50% illegal tariff on steel imports a while ago. Europe threatened tit-for-tat tariffs and America decided the American steel industry was ok now and need no more financial help; the tariffs were dropped."


I work in the steel industry designing equipment and working on automation systems. The American steel industry IS ok now, in fact, it is better than OK. In the last couple of years, mills have been recording record profits.
The US doesn't export enough goods to be concerned with tit-for-tat tariffs. We would defiantely get the better end of that deal with almost any country.

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Jeku
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 20:39
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Quote: "Please remember that you're not dealing with intelligent rational people, youre dealing with fascist neoconservative religious-right morons."


Hey wait a sec--- I highly doubt this softwood issue has "religious" undertones. That's for a different topic altogether. I still think Bush was the best man for the job between him and Kerry, but that's just my opinion.

Quote: "not trying to offend you Jeku, becuase i think you're a great guy...but, posting this on a little game devoloping board isnt going to 'get it out there'"


Well, seeing as I'm angry about the issue, and this is honestly the only forum I visit everyday, I thought I'd vent here

Quote: "and i love how people dont realize that Bush isnt the ruler of the country, he doesnt make all the decisions."


Actually he has the power to pay the money back, and phoning Dubya IS an option for our prime minister.

And just to make myself clear, I didn't want this to be a debate about Republicans vs. Democrats, and I apologize that it did. I just wanted to make people aware that there is more to life than the Iraq war, high gas prices, and playing video games. Thousands of jobs have been lost in my province for what--- an illegal tariff. I'm not blaming George Bush himself, and I think he is a good guy-- hell, I would have voted for him in last year's election.

But Dubya DOES have the power to reverse these charges. Five billion dollars is a lot of money that could be put to good use.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 21:02
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Quote: "And just to make myself clear, I didn't want this to be a debate about Republicans vs. Democrats, and I apologize that it did."


Cattle's fault. He blames everything on conservatives, even when they have nothing to do with it, as in this case. I think the saddest part about it, is how blind he is to how left he is.

Anyhow, we Americans do enjoy your softwood, but I doubt you'll get much of a response from Bush right now, what with the war and the hurricane goings on.


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David T
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 21:06
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Quote: " (UK, but yet, no one bashes on them...)"


Actually, Blair isn't that popoular either...

Quote: "CattleRustler, do you think that just because your a mod that your somehow wiser than everyone else here? You dont "feel" anything, you're just relaying what you hear from BBC."


I remember seeing many polls that suggested two thirds of the UK wanted Bush to lose the last election. It's because of him and his war on terror that the UK has because such a prime target for terrorism.

Quote: "High gas prices are the Gas companies fault, remember the Enron scam?"


We have them and we get by

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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JoelJ
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 21:10
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Quote: "It's because of him and his war on terror that the UK has because such a prime target for terrorism"

have you ever heard the term "scapegoat"?

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Jimmy
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 21:13
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Quote: "I remember seeing many polls that suggested two thirds of the UK wanted Bush to lose the last election. It's because of him and his war on terror that the UK has because such a prime target for terrorism."


But I thought you already had terrorism problems with the IRA or whatever, which is why you think we're pansies for flipping out about one attack.

"We've dealt with terrorism for 100 million years! What's the big deal?"


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 21:28
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Quote: "It's because of him and his war on terror that the UK has because such a prime target for terrorism."


So what your saying is that Bush is the leader of your country too?
Don't blame Bush for the decisions that YOUR ELECTED leaders have made.

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David T
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 21:57 Edited at: 1st Sep 2005 21:58
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Quote: "Don't blame Bush for the decisions that YOUR ELECTED leaders have made."


Hehe, the problem is Blair is pretty much Bush's lapdog.

Personally I'd wish we stopped meddling so much. We could learn a lot from Norway, Sweden or Finland. I don't know anybody who doesn't like them! (that's probably mainly because they don't do much , but they're still some of the safest places in the world)

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 22:20
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Bah, I think the American government should worry about themselves and not everyone else. Im sure there are plenty of reasons why American troops should be off-shore fighting in other countries, but I don't understand them all so please feel free to enlighten me about these. What I see is US troops being ordered to fight other people's fight. Sure the WTC attack was bad and all, but that doesn't mean we need to go out and lose another few hundred thousand people trying to find justice, it just makes no sense to me.

IMHO i think that the United States military's sole purpose should be to defend the home territory and nothing else. I find it hard to believe that every single country we have "invaded / entered"(you chose the word) has the intentions to launch a full scale attack on the United States. Honestly, the United States has always been a relatively safe place even when we weren't off in a hundred or more other countries. Our government should deal with other countries for basic trade and such, but should just stay in their own country in terms of military to guard. We have the Navy to patrol the borders, air force to watch the air, army to defend land borders, there is really no need to do anything else. Sure we would still have the occasional terrorist attack, but what country doesn't?

Ok, enough babble from me, feel free to shoot down anything I have said as im not basing it on facts, just my personal beliefs.

"Dark Basic rocks! Although the things you can do are not as dynamic as C++, just think how long it would take to do the same thing! I can get FPS of over 60!"
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 22:22
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The US should bomb the UK. Who agrees?

I already got David T's vote, so that's one. Cmon people, we want a democratic world here. Vote up.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
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David T
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 22:29
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Quote: "I already got David T's vote, so that's one"


Yer what?

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 22:30 Edited at: 1st Sep 2005 22:32
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Don't worry. They'll only drop a little one on the North.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 22:30
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Quote: "Yer what? "

Bomb.
UK.
Big Explosion.
You Agree.

"Dark Basic rocks! Although the things you can do are not as dynamic as C++, just think how long it would take to do the same thing! I can get FPS of over 60!"
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=ChrisB=
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 22:39
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Here we go again with our amercan itiocey.

BOOM! Awww shucks! There goes the world. again.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 22:40 Edited at: 1st Sep 2005 22:40
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Silence, you...you...

Silence!


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
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Jeku
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 23:02 Edited at: 1st Sep 2005 23:03
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Quote: " Here we go again with our amercan itiocey."


That statement is ironically priceless.

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David T
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 23:13
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Quote: "Quote: " Here we go again with our amercan itiocey."

That statement is ironically priceless."




"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
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Jimmy
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Posted: 1st Sep 2005 23:37 Edited at: 1st Sep 2005 23:38
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Quote: "another few hundred thousand people"


Another?

Quote: "I find it hard to believe that every single country we have "invaded / entered"(you chose the word) has the intentions to launch a full scale attack on the United States."


Wait, how many countries have we invaded? Two? With leaders that were direct threats to the US? The US being the country we're supposed to be defending?

Have you compelled me to respond to your itiocey in the form of question? Would I be wrong in answering yes?


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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 00:25
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Quote: "Another?
"


In addition to the people that died in the WTC attack, so yes, another.

Quote: "Wait, how many countries have we invaded? Two? "

Do you honestly think the United States military is only in two countries?

Quote: "With leaders that were direct threats to the US?"

Im assuming one country your thinking of was Afghanistan and I don't recall their leader ever being said as a direct threat.

Quote: "Have you compelled me to respond to your itiocey in the form of question?"

Now this is a bit wierd.

Quote: "Would I be wrong in answering yes?"

You can do whatever you must.

"Dark Basic rocks! Although the things you can do are not as dynamic as C++, just think how long it would take to do the same thing! I can get FPS of over 60!"
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 00:39
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Quote: "Wait, how many countries have we invaded? Two?"


well actually, its a lot greater than 2, and USA and UK have screwed up a fair bit of the world without actually invading them.

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 01:00
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Quote: "Cattle's fault. He blames everything on conservatives, even when they have nothing to do with it, as in this case. I think the saddest part about it, is how blind he is to how left he is."


No actually I never said "conservatives" nor did I blame them for anything, I can actually dig some of their beliefs. What I did say was "fascist neoconservative religious-right morons". There's a big difference, let's get it straight.

The Left has never been so right.

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Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 01:02
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But Cattle--- this softwood lumber dispute has NOTHING to do with religion, whatsoever... so why bring it up? Anyways, I sure hope to see some resolution soon.

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re faze
20
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Joined: 24th Sep 2004
Location: The shores of hell.
Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 02:47
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hey! i believe in softwood lumber!, no but really the us is starting to become an even bigger bully than usual with all this "texas justice" going around, if the us truly wanted to free someone, why didnt they start closer like freeing puerto rico, or vieques or ireland, iraq is pretty far to 'free' someone, what a load

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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Jimmy
21
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Joined: 20th Aug 2003
Location: Back in the USA
Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 03:00
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Quote: ""fascist neoconservative religious-right morons""


But that's just your definition of a republican.

Quote: "Do you honestly think the United States military is only in two countries?"


Quote: "Quote: "Wait, how many countries have we invaded? Two?"

well actually, its a lot greater than 2, and USA and UK have screwed up a fair bit of the world without actually invading them."


That's what I'm saying, when I hear the word invade, I think by force. Bombs, guns, and mannequins. So, since 9/11 we have invaded two countries. I know we HAVE troops in other countries. We always have.

Quote: "Im assuming one country your thinking of was Afghanistan and I don't recall their leader ever being said as a direct threat."


*cough* Al Qaeda, youstupidfrickinmoron *cough*


Bloggy hoggy doggy
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re faze
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Location: The shores of hell.
Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 05:11
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yeah, but the iraq thing was a big stretch and im suprised that it was even allowed to happen

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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UnderLord
21
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 05:23
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Quote: " agree in saying that Bush is a moron, but you still cannot blame every decision on him. Almost all decisions have to be agreeed upon by many other people for anything to happen, so although I think Bush is a friggen moron and should never have been a president(nor shoulda that other guy though), give him a break, everyone seems to think that he completely controls the government"


Uhh if he didnt run the whole government then he would have never gotten that stupid home lan security act to pass because that act allows the government to do anything they want to us.


Quote: "FYI everyone, America has been doing great since Bush took office, you all are just so closed minded and liberal "fanboys," so to speak, that you cant see it, or you just hate it. High gas prices are the Gas companies fault, remember the Enron scam?
"


Yeah america does great if your RICH! i don't mean rich davey or whatever his name is i mean rich as in money rich.

First off you don't know anything about gas pricing you know how much of that the gas station owner gets? about 12 cents per transaction thats why when gas prices go up the owners of the stations lose. Remember back in like the late 80's or so when all those gas stations went out of business you know why? they didnt make enough money even with tons of poeple going ot there pumps you still cannot make enough money thats why big gas companys own gas stations and not private people anymore.

In no way are gas companys to blame you know where most of our gas comes from? Over sea's you know why it all comes over seas? because when there gas starts to become rare our reserves will last us quite sometime. If anyone is scamming anyone its the US government and keeping all there reserve gas to them selfs. Only reason the US has a big reserve is because we don't use it we use all forigen gas until it runs out then we start to use our own.

Ion you should look this all up its true we import more gas then we use of our own supply. The gas company is probably making hardly any profit right now.

When we talk to god, we're praying. When god talks to us, we're schizophrenic.
Fortune never calls on those that have no balls.
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ionstream
20
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Joined: 4th Jul 2004
Location: Overweb
Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 06:10
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All right, I have alot of ground to cover, so bear with me.

First order of business:

Quote: "Uhh if he didnt run the whole government then he would have never gotten that stupid home lan security act to pass because that act allows the government to do anything they want to us."


Okay, and just to make my point:


Quote: "... that stupid home lan security act to pass because that act allows the government to do anything they want to us."


I don't think I even need to argue this, but in short, the government can NOT do whatever they want to us. It just means that you have less privacy, and in war times, thats the best you could hope for. Next:


Quote: "Yeah america does great if your RICH! i don't mean rich davey or whatever his name is i mean rich as in money rich."


Well, I've corrected this sentence to this, but correct me if I'm wrong:

Quote: "Yeah, America is great if your RICH! Not "Rich" as in "Rich Davey," or whatever his name is, I mean rich as in wealthy."


Okay, obviously your life will be better if you are wealthy, which you can easily become in America (the land of opportunity). Of course, Democrats want to increase tax percentages for the rich, but thats another subject.

Quote: "Ion you should look this all up its true we import more gas then we use of our own supply."


Irrelevant.

Quote: "The gas company is probably making hardly any profit right now."


Source/Link? Either way, if theres less profit to be made, all the more reason to hold back...

Sig changed for lagging up browsers.
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JoelJ
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Joined: 8th Sep 2003
Location: UTAH
Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 07:36
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Quote: "Only reason the US has a big reserve is because we don't use it we use all forigen gas until it runs out then we start to use our own."

altho your point is really true, it, at the same time, is a REALLY good idea. Get over the gas prices, it's called LIFE, prices go UP, prices go DOWN, get used to it. Second of all, if we used up all of our oil, that would basically be like handing the whole nation over to the middle east...which is controlled by a lot of terrorists, and no country really wants that to happen to them.

Quote: "Yeah america does great if your RICH!"

no freaking WAY! someone does well if they have MONEY, that's new to me.

Quote: "Uhh if he didnt run the whole government then he would have never gotten that stupid home lan security act to pass because that act allows the government to do anything they want to us."

Uhh, it has to pass through the senate, before ANYTHING becomes law...

Quote: " yeah, but the iraq thing was a big stretch and im suprised that it was even allowed to happen"

again, senate approvied of it, and John Kerry himself voted FOR it. so...and it wasnt really a stretch, he needed to be removed, that man was a criminal, and no man should have the power he did with a mind like his. It's the whole hitler thing, yeah Sadam had a long way to go before he did anything like hitler did, but if someone would've stopped hitler while he was still doing his evil deeds locally (like sadam was, but hitler also didnt have the power to have Weapons of Mass Dest.) there would be a lot more happy Jews in this world, we really can't let something like that happen again.


Eat some of dat cheese
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Grog Grueslayer
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Joined: 30th May 2005
Playing: Green Hell
Posted: 2nd Sep 2005 07:57
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I always think of one saying when I hear people talk about politics:

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Every government all over the world has corruption in one way or another. If anybody thinks their government is totally without corruption raise your hand and say what country you live in.
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