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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DarkBASIC Professional 6.0 Suggestions

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Advancement Games
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Posted: 28th Sep 2005 23:20 Edited at: 22nd Oct 2005 06:39
[Mod Edit by JessTicular]

With Permission from Gamedev, I'm editing this in:

Summary of all things mentioned so far ( last updated 22th October )




[/Mod Edit]

Okay, DBPro currently is at version 5.8, and I know that TGC is creating version 5.9. I think that it would be nice for them to get some feedback from the users of what they would like to have in version 6. I hope this can become a sticky, but that is just hopefully. Okay, here are somethings that I would like to see in DBPro:

Built-in Physics: Why?: Physics is not built into B3D. If TGC can put in built-in physics, not only will it allow users better games faster, but it will also put DBPro as a more apealling product over competitors.

Better collision Detection: Why?: DBP collision detection is not top notch, and it should be.

Improved Multiplayer: Why?: Multiplayer in DBP right now is full of bugs. I really would like it to be bugless and to have better c/s support.

Entity Editor: Why?: This is what I am thinking: Do not put in a level editor, just an entity editor so you can place your characters right into your game and not have to do it non-visually.

Suggestions, comments, questions?
Peter H
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 00:06
Quote: "Built-in Physics: "

that's coming in 5.9

Quote: "Improved Multiplayer"

also coming in 5.9 (same stuff as they use in FPSC)

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Ric
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Location: object position x
Posted: 29th Sep 2005 00:11
Sounds like what you really want is something more like FPSC - where the major game elements are written for you already. DBPro is meant to be a programming language, not just a game creator. You use the language to make your own physics engines, level editors etc. I'm not discouraging you from getting community input on what should be added to the language, but I personally think that any additions should make it a more powerful programming language, rather than a quick solution to game creation. Remember, there are people out there like me that use the language for writing applications, presentations, demonstrations etc. - not just games which follow a set formula.

BatVink
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 00:15
Quote: "Better collision Detection"

Part of the Physics

Quote: "Entity Editor"

Magic World...Matedit...they are world editors with import routines for DB Pro.

David T
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 00:15
Quote: "Entity Editor: Why?: This is what I am thinking: Do not put in a level editor, just an entity editor so you can place your characters right into your game and not have to do it non-visually."


That's too game specific.

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
JulesD
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 01:00
I would like to see full shader support or at least procedural textures. And the ablility to choose some anti alias format, there has to be some way of doing it with DarkBasicPro.
What would even be better if we could take an fx file directly from nvidia fx program without having to change any thing.
Raven
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 01:04
Update 6 is actually pretty much planned on paper what they want to add. What would more help them is if people provided more bug reports and started trying to push the language so they can make it more stable and working features.

Catalyst
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 01:30
Faster text. No, really, how come making a 100 point font brings my FPS from 120 down to 28? Maybe do something like Cloggy's text dll, that didn't mind me using that point size, 100 point font with no frame drop at all.. Or even just calling the text command a lot.

Native commands for system information. Like, did I just plug in a removable drive, will it properly recognize drive type, commands for remapping drives, what is the drive serial number....I can't really think of all those type of things right now, I just remember each time I try to do things that deal with files/directorys/hard drives/removable media...any of those sort of things, I start finding many limitations in the commands.

Though, these are things that there are free DLLs to fix. But, it would be nice to have native commands....things that don't need to have a bunch of setup and included files to run. I really agree that collision needs to be better, also working with the cloth pack there's some issues there, but I've already talked to Mike about that and he's working into it. Oh, with the ehancements pack, I don't think it lets you load sound files directly from it's pack files. That would be nice to have. Actually, being able to load any filetypes from pack files would nice, just objects and images right now I think.
David iz cool
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 01:58

id like to see a few more commands like:
bouyancy-make an object seem like its in water
earthquake-shake the screen like an earthquake(maybe already possible)
wind-object affected by invisible force
last thing-make lights more powerful.maybe its just me but i havent been able to set up a dark moody scene yet.
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 02:06
Quote: " trying to push the language "

Check out the Open MMORPG thread, we're pushin dbp to its limits in all areas before moving onto a dll, so you can read the last few pages to see what we have found out...



i want some god damn decent bsp support
i'd also like to see some built in button commands
hmmm...i'll think of more later...

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
Louiz ofRohr
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 02:08
Quote: "more stable "


The worst foe lies within the self..
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 02:13
Quote: "hmmm...i'll think of more later..."


Quote: "more stable"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
re faze
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 03:20
@david iz cool
get off your duff and make them yourself!

you dont beat the system. the system beats you.
David iz cool
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 03:28
well i havent figured out how to make my own commands yet.im still learning the basics
The admiral
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 03:56
Its a programming language if you want those things buy the particle effects dll off of tgc it does wind and that sort of thing. The whole point of making games is enjoying the challenge of maing your own effects and routines etc.

The admiral
G Man
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 05:46
How about some error handling facilities... You know the standard "On Error Goto" stuff... That would be really spiffy!

Intel Pentium 4, 3.4GHz, 1280MB RAM, NVidia Quadro FX3000/256MB, 240GB HD, XP Pro
Jeff Miller
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 06:42
Planned on paper already as 6.0 may be, it is never too late to toss in some more expansive documentation. This would be much welcome by the beginner group to whom the product looks attractive. It would likewise be welcome by geriatrics such as I, who have moved from one high level language to another since the late 1960's from Fortran to Basic to PowerBasic to SuperBasic to QuickBasic to Visual Basic to God-knows-what-comes-next Basic, but who do so as a hobby and who buy high level language compilers for the purpose of spending more time creating results than studying the methodology of getting there from scratch. In other words, the advantage of the high level language IS THE PRODUCT. We are used to visualizing the effects of graphic commands by reviewing well-drawn diagrams, and troubleshooting coding errors by referring to a table in the manual that explicates the specific types of coding errors that provoke "Error nnnn" when an error aborts the program and an error message appears. This is much quicker than casting your bread upon the waters by posting to a forum.
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 06:50
Lee said no plans for error handling stuff in the IRC chat

BatVink
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 10:10
Quote: "bouyancy-make an object seem like its in water"


That requires Physics. You can use Newton, or wait for a Physics pack that includes bouyancy. I don't think ODE will, but maybe the next one will

Quote: "earthquake-shake the screen like an earthquake(maybe already possible)"


Just move the camera

Quote: "wind-object affected by invisible force"

Physics again

Quote: "last thing-make lights more powerful.maybe its just me but i havent been able to set up a dark moody scene yet."


You need a lightmapped scene. You will not get fantastic lighting with dynamic lights. Check out Gile[s] or cShop.

tpfkat
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 10:21
cloth and rotate dlls as part of dbpro instead of upgrades lol
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 11:08
I'm seeing lots of suggestions that seem like people just want to get out of programming it themselves, like the earthquake!! Thats got to be, what... 1, maybe 2 lines of code?!

My Website:
Jess T
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 12:48
C'mon people...

If you want to suggest something for DBP, be smart about it, don't just ask for something to be coded for you so that you don't have to do it yourself!

I mean, this is programming, and as such, you have to program things. If you don't want to, then go get FPSC, or T3DGM!


Suggestions that would be usefull would be things like:
Faster Compile Times.
Better Debugger.
Matrix Rotations.
Better Quality blitting of Sprites.

... and so the list goes on

Team EOD :: All-Round Nice Guy
Want Better dbHelp Files?
Anomaly
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 14:38
Taking advantage of MMX, SSE/2/3?
Me!
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 14:49 Edited at: 29th Sep 2005 14:52
extra "pixel perfect" sprite commands (I will keep on saying this forever....so you had better listen ) IMO the stupid MS inspired 3D plain sprites are a huge step backwards, people spent ages dreaming of sprites they could use from their language that collided perfectly, now we have taken a step backwards to character set style rectangular collision , I am sure Lee can "blit" software, pixel perfect colliding, sprites to the main bitmap fast enough for most uses, and I get annoyed by that blue backdrop erasing my naff backgrounds too, and while he is at it he could try speeding up the 2d commands in general, dot and point are ruinously slow for a start, and there is no reason why text should be so slow, especialy when other languages manage to draw text at a decent speed, even if we had to ask for some predefined character set to be generated before the main loop it would help..something like CREATE CHARSET "aldous",pointsize for eg to be used instead of the SET TEXT FONT command.



why do they say Aliens are gonna be friendly?, surely the agressive ones wipe out the peaceloving ones, so all you have left out there are crazed flesh eating interstellar monsters.
aristid
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 17:00
dont know what its called, but Id like to use lists, not arrays that are expandable and get some FOR EACH blah-blah type of commands if Im making any sense.

aristides.
MiR
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 17:10 Edited at: 29th Sep 2005 17:11
Quote: "now we have taken a step backwards to character set style rectangular collision"

Not really. The creator of PlayBasic just released his pixel perfect sprite collision tutorial for free and there are varius colision functions floating around. (The one that Ianm optimised is quite good. Can´t imagine a way of making it faster save handling the memblocks elsewhere)

As for requests I would love the return of static objects or at something that makes having Morrowind type terrains less of a headache.

My signature has been erased by me because it's LARGE.
Thank you for the votez!1!
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 17:50
We did what now ?

Kevin Picone
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UnderLord
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 18:49
Quote: "Faster Compile Times.
Better Debugger.
Matrix Rotations.
Better Quality blitting of Sprites."


Especially on the sprites and debugger part i'd like to see that too.

I woud just like 3948394834 more useless commands that would only serve to make your coding 1500 lines more =P. Just kidding.

When we talk to god, we're praying. When god talks to us, we're schizophrenic.
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Me!
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 19:11
@Mir: is this an optimised dll in C?, part of DarkBasic?, nope?, thought not, and if it can be done so easily then why not include it in the language?, add on this, add in that, last time I bought a car it came with wheels and an engine, they didn`t suggest I got em elsewhere, just like when someone says sprites to me I automaticaly think of pixel perfect collision and moving over the screen without refreshing all the time, its one of the reasons they call em sprites and not "overlaid 3D transparent plains with basic collision", Lee seems obsessed with the 3D side of things, he doesn`t appear to realy have any interest in the 2D side even though a lot of people code for 2D games in DB.

sprites to Lee are things you use for a HUD or target reticule, I am not dissing him, I just think that sprites should actualy BE sprites and not plains needing 3D acceleration to exist, and to be honest the whole 2D side of things is pretty minimal as well as slow, not even a flood fill or polygon draw instructions for example, just because something is good does not mean it can`t be better.



why do they say Aliens are gonna be friendly?, surely the agressive ones wipe out the peaceloving ones, so all you have left out there are crazed flesh eating interstellar monsters.
DBAlex
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 19:14
Ill be happy if I can actually use the object collision command and collision is picked up instantly... I know I can fix it myself but why should I have to?

The collision commands should have been stable and accurate from Day 1!

And dont mention "oh but you can use Nuclear Glory!", CRAP! Why should I have to pay for something that should be implemented anyway!


AMD 64 3000 + 512mb RAM + 80GB HD + Radeon 9600se 128mb
http://www.dbastudios.cjb.net
Zotoaster
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 19:27
maybe to be able to change different things for different cameras. e.g. hide object on camera 0 but not camera 1


DarkPhear
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 19:47
1) Load plugins directly to memory, stop creating temporary files.
2) Speed and stability.
3) DirectX version check with a helpful message for the end-users.
4) Error handling (it can replace #3).
5) Pixel perfect collision.

Download free games and demos at my page: http://darkphear.cjb.net
MultiJoy Plugin : use multiple joysticks / joypads in your program.http://darkphear.cjb.net
IanG
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 19:54
Quote: "3) DirectX version check with a helpful message for the end-users"


woudn't be that difficult to do

Quote: " 1) Load plugins directly to memory, stop creating temporary files."


one snag pe headers aren't easily created in memory, would be nice though


amd athlon xp 2600+,1280mb,FX 5200 128mb,200gb,xp pro sp2
MiR
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 19:55 Edited at: 29th Sep 2005 20:15
Quote: " We did what now ?"

Oops sorry wrong people. I meant Banshee Studios.

Anyhow. You´re right pixel perfect collision should be included and they said they´ll put it in one day but untill then the code doesn´t take up that much room.

My signature has been erased by me because it's LARGE.
Thank you for the votez!1!
gbuilder
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 21:26
Smaller Exe files.

gbuilder.

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Freddy 007
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 21:43
Function inlining, and a lot of other speed optimising stuff. I just LOVE to play around with that kind of stuff... And pixel perfect collision detection also would be nice. About the faster compiler, I think that already is part of their plan.

Louiz ofRohr
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 22:04 Edited at: 29th Sep 2005 22:09
Quote: "
If you want to suggest something for DBP, be smart about it, don't just ask for something to be coded for you so that you don't have to do it yourself!

I mean, this is programming, and as such, you have to program things. If you don't want to, then go get FPSC, or T3DGM!
"


I was about to say that

I want this:


j/k

Well.. actually I think DBP has enough commands..
People need to think more about technical issues..

The worst foe lies within the self..
MasterChief
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 22:32
* Any plans for "Windows" type dropdown boxes, text boxes, buttons, and menu objects? (Blue Gui is ok, but difficult to implement)

* It would be nice to have a serial object for RS232/Serial communication support.

* How about an individual window that can be scaled and placed anywhere on the screen. Drawing in Bitmaps and placing the at a specific coordinate becomes overwhelming.

* Drawing lines, circles, boxes. Adding an additional parameter for color: line 0,0,10,10,RGB(50,125,55) etc.

* More object orientated programming like Procedures instead of GOSUBS.

* Arrays inside Arrays for Types:

Type Vessel
Course as Integer
Speed as Single
xPos() as Array (or single)
yPos() as Array (or single)
End Type

Dim SpeedBoat(10) as integer

SpeedBoat(1).xPos(32) = 12.232
SpeedBoat(1).yPos(32) = 122.42

Thanks for the opportunity!
Catalyst
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 22:49
Oh, that last post made me think of something else. Case inside of case. Like:

select a
case 1
select b
case 1
blahblahblah
endcase

case 2
blahblahblah
endcase

endselect
endcase

case 2
blahblahblah

endcase
endselect

Don't know if that's possible, but in tests I had done it didn't work.

The other thing is spotlight inner/outer angle not seeming to work right, I have another thread about that one.
TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 29th Sep 2005 23:15
i want more native commands, instead of having to download and learn all of these damn dlls. Because realisticly, if it werent for the ability to use dlls, how many of us would be fed up with dbp by now? I still like DBC for simplicity and stabiity reasons tho, one of the best purchases i ever made...

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
.......S-S-D-D.......
Duffer
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Posted: 30th Sep 2005 00:27
@ TGC,

What's already suggested for 5.9 seems really good -cant wait.

I've been using DBPro for years now.

However, if you have your money spinning caps on I'd strongly recommend overhauling the help F1 system, definition of commands etc, examples etc. I'd make it inclusive of commands only available with expansion packs but put (*only available with v.1.? of xxx expansion pack) as well - would greatly consolidate the product you're trying to sell and promote your expansion packs at the same time... just a (good) thought.

At the mo I may refer to jestics online guide- brilliant-
Zone Chicken
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Posted: 30th Sep 2005 00:55
Pixel perfect collision, the main problem i have with this command is tgc said they would or at least i think i remember them saying they would add this i also think that they said it is not stated that dbp supports pixel perfect to being with just collision of sprites therefor it is not broken.

But then they said they would just add it in (if i remember correctly) cause of the people bitching about it, then it was said that it would add but be in a 2d add on pack that users would have to pay for of course along will other features in the pack.

It has now been over a year and yet the command is still not added and no 2d pack has yet to see the light of day i understand that this wouldn't be on top priority since this is a primarily 3d language not 2d but many people use dbp for 2d also and it would just nice to finally get the command working instead of using workarounds.

Your signature has been erased by a mod -- please resize to under 600x120...
the_winch
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Posted: 30th Sep 2005 05:13 Edited at: 30th Sep 2005 05:14
Quote: "3) DirectX version check with a helpful message for the end-users."


This is their response to that in the recent irc chat.

Quote: "[22:15] <Pris>IanT asks: Will we have a nicer dialogue telling us that the requisite DirectX is missing when a DBP app is run by 6.0?
[22:16] <LeeBamber> You can create this yourself with the DX DLL call to get DX info and relay in through your own interface
[22:16] <IanT> but Lee
[22:16] <IanT> by the time we call directx, DBP has already crashed
[22:16] <IanT> it needs dx to get to that command
[22:16] <IanT> unless we write a C++ shell for our program
[22:17] <LeeBamber> You can create a DBPRO app that does not use DX if you do not call any DX commands. Then this app can call the real app if it passes the DX DLL"
Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 30th Sep 2005 06:27
Quote: "Oh, that last post made me think of something else. Case inside of case. Like:"


That's already possible. You just have to indent right so you don't get confused where to use endselect. Of course it's always good to indent all the time.

This code only has 3 select/case statements... but i'm sure it's unlimited how far in you can go. If it picks 0 for A and 1 for B then it'll go on to pick C.
DarkPhear
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Posted: 30th Sep 2005 06:29
Quote: "
<LeeBamber> You can create a DBPRO app that does not use DX if you do not call any DX commands. Then this app can call the real app if it passes the DX DLL"


I'm sorry but this is a pretty un-professional solution.

Download free games and demos at my page: http://darkphear.cjb.net
MultiJoy Plugin : use multiple joysticks / joypads in your program.http://darkphear.cjb.net
Louiz ofRohr
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Posted: 30th Sep 2005 07:34 Edited at: 30th Sep 2005 07:36
Quote: "set window fixed [resizable],[movable]"

Actually a good one..

Quote: "
get window position x
get window position y
get window size x
get window size y
"

Nah! You can use variables to position/resize the window so you know the last values

The worst foe lies within the self..
Advancement Games
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Posted: 30th Sep 2005 23:14
Okay, with the level editor thing, I am creating my own in DBPro and I will allow people to use it for free for now. I am basicly done with it and I have been working for a few days on it. It will feature the following:

1. Add Prefabs from cshop or 3dws
2. Add objects with user defined entities
3. Add Heightmaps and texture them depending on heights
4. Rotate, Scale, and Move objects around in the game
5. Add cameras set to follow objects
6. Create Paths and Timelines for objects in the game
7. Do cinematography for games
8. Link scripts to your objects in the world
9. GUI features make it easy to use
10. FTP your work with built-in FTP access
11. Program enemy AI in the editor
12. Assign commands to cameras and objects in the editor
13. Add zones (playerstart, playerend, sounds, premade entities)
14. WYSIWYG
15. Export code to a .txt file, .spt (Specter Game File), or make your own code for it
16. Built-in loader for DarkBasic Pro, Classic, BlitzBasic, PureBasic, and C++ Languages

Also, I really do not need to know about FPSC. The thing is weak and for inexperienced users. I have programmed in many languages, and if you make it easier to use, the more people will buy. www.3dgamestudio.com is an example of a product that has an entity editor and is actually much better for a professional programmer than DBP is.

C. Nom De Plum
Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 30th Sep 2005 23:22
Problem with the level editor thing, it's ANOTHER thing to support.

-This...is my boomstick!
Advancement Games
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 16:39
That is not a problem for me, but when I was starting out years ago, I always had a little trouble with it. I always make a level editor for my projects, but I am now making a DarkBasic Object Oriented thingy. It will be able to make your code in DarkBasic all object oriented instead of just a structured thing. It will connect modules as scripts and link them to your games with a visual system for placing cameras, entities, and objects. All objects will have supported physics and you can add heightmaps and lightmapped prefabs to the games you make. Currently, I think that I will be done soon and I will release a test demo in the WIP forum.

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Ric
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Posted: 1st Oct 2005 17:05
Quote: "www.3dgamestudio.com is an example of a product that has an entity editor and is actually much better for a professional programmer than DBP is."


So why are you using dbpro?

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