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Geek Culture / NVIDIA Prize Justice!

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Darth Vader
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Location: Adelaide SA, I am the only DB user here!
Posted: 3rd Sep 2007 12:25
Quote: "[i can feel an Indi moment coming on... i better get a coffee and calm down]
"

Made me laugh!


Baggers
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Location: Yonder over dem dere hills
Posted: 3rd Sep 2007 12:48
I must congratulate the forum members for taking the indi incident and just making it into another thing to laugh about!
Kudos to everyone for staying cool at these times of ranting!

M.I.A is pending
Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 3rd Sep 2007 13:23
DinoHunter won't work on my PC right now (DX 9.31 dll thingy) but it's obvious that you completed the game and submitted it, you certainly deserve a voucher.

We're going down... in a spiral to the ground...
Kentaree
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2007 17:55
I've posted an article about this on Digg, maybe if enough people read it and "Digg" it, we could get things moving.

http://digg.com/pc_games/nVidia_Snubs_Competition_Winners

GatorHex
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Posted: 4th Sep 2007 04:19 Edited at: 4th Sep 2007 05:11
Thanks for your support guys, I feel realy gutted over how I was treated.

The injustice gets even worse though, one of the winners broke the compo rules and had porno in their game.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=113679&b=32

If the person who was running this actualy did their job properly and tested the game/read the forum it had, someone else could have had that prize! LOL

Should be an interesting story to add to your digg

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Mike Inel
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Posted: 4th Sep 2007 06:16
Quote: "http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=113679&b=32"

lol

GatorHex
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Posted: 4th Sep 2007 16:13 Edited at: 4th Sep 2007 17:44
your work does look nice and it is kinda LOL that you didn't just end your demo before that scene and even more LOL noone spotted it until after you got a prize

Realy though i think TCG are missing a golden opertunity for free advertising here. If they leaked the story to the press like the Sony / Manchester Chruch thing they would be on TV for a week.

Like they say, "no publicity is bad publicity"

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Mike Inel
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 02:41
Hmm... I can't think of a worse easteregg than what I did in IOTT... Heheh... Says in Wiki that even the "Hot Coffee Mod" didn't show genitals, while I did...
If they want me to recompile it, (Removing the easteregg of course) just let me know... (Or email) I'll be glad to make a patch...

GatorHex
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 05:26 Edited at: 5th Sep 2007 17:33
OMG Mike you found another screw up..

The game dowload links have gone out with personal details in!!! [arugah!] Data Protection Act 1998[arugah!]

All those crazy forum members you previously flamed now know where you live! e.g. i now know exaclty where i can find Van B in Scotland, get this sorted fast TCG!!!

Quote: "Using Notepad (or any text editor of your choice) create a file called author.txt. Place it with your game EXE. This file must contain:

1. Game Version number (see below)
2. Put 'DBPro' to tell us which compo you are entering
3. Your full name (not your forum name)
4. Your postal address, including country of residence
5. Your email address
6. Put a link to your games WIP thread (if you made one)

This file will be REMOVED when we make your game available for download. We respect your privacy. This file is for competition administration purposes only."


DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 5th Sep 2007 05:39
@Mike - Just out of curiosity, why did you put the easter egg in? And why make it porn?! You had to have known there's a good chance little kids might be playing

Mike Inel
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 07:05
@Jeku:
I got insane that time...
Just imagine that kind of graphics was made by a single person within 3 months with job deadlines to rush...
If I was sane, I won't even put those chibis in the loading...
The only help I got were Daz's bgms and some plugins...

Junkrock
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 07:32
gotta love the music.....

I believe if you wanted you could sue TGC under the data protection act for releasing your personal details to the public sector...im not saying do it tho! just saying they should be more careful.

DaZ

[href]www.myspace.com/dazdicks[/href]
Mike Inel
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 08:33
I'm not touching "law" things with a 20 foot stick...
-_-
(So is marriage... LOL)

Kentaree
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 14:15
While it shouldn't have been part of the game, I'm of the opinion that if you're afraid of your kids seeing porn, don't let them use the internet full stop.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 15:27 Edited at: 5th Sep 2007 15:28
You shouldn't hide porn in a game unless the game has a restricted rating printed clearly on the packaging, and the loading screen. Plus full warnings of nudity, and sexual ativity.

Kentaree
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 16:10
Yeah, you're right, however games where you go around shooting people are ok of course...

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 16:16
Quote: "Yeah, you're right, however games where you go around shooting people are ok of course..."


It's a visual thing. If you shoot somebody, and their eyes, and brain splatter out realistically, then that would need a warning too.

Kentaree
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 16:26
I don't know the law on this, but I can't think of any shooter games, particularly graphic or not, that have a G rating, because it's depicting violence.

I'm going on a bit of a tangent here, but what really bugs me is the fact that in real life, it's (mostly) acceptable to get your kit off and have a bit of fun with some from the opposite gender, and totally illegal to kill someone, yet when it comes to TV shows, movies and games, you can play and watch stuff with lots of killing, even though you're not legally old enough to have sex. Also, in some countries, a naked breast automatically means a minimum of a 15 rating...

That said, I'm not one of the videogames incite violence people either, nor do I think that the content was suitable, but this is just an issue that rubs me up the wrong way ()

Benjamin A
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 16:38 Edited at: 5th Sep 2007 16:39
There are some other strange things I've noticed about this competition, looking at the entries in the newsletter....

first of all there are entries missing, noteably one of the potential winners in the fpsc competition isn't there.

Secondly.... a number of the winners aren't marked even worth playing, recommend or highly recommended at all in the newsletter, which is odd. Why did a game that isn't even worth looking at, a winner, while others that are recommended or even highly recommended didn't win at all?

After looking at some of the FPSC entries I really wonder why some of the prize winners did even win? The winners Beyond Life and Meat are great and worthy winners, but the others are exceeded by other games on the list.... some even by far. To be honest weren't even worth downloading, just simple standard fpsc stuff, badly put together, nothing special or ordinary at all.

Sorry to say so but some games got fat more then they even deserve and others didn't get what they clearly deserved. Seeing the whole list now and seeing the winners I cannot get away from the impression that the judging was very biased towards certain games. One of the main keys for the fpsc competition was innovative and original and the games that excell in that didn't win at all, very odd.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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tha_rami
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 16:52
Quote: "Can anyone who played DinoHunter please post here and say I deserve a $30 voucher at least or I'll cry! sniff"


You deserve it!



Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 17:01
Quote: "Sorry to say so but some games got fat more then they even deserve and others didn't get what they clearly deserved. Seeing the whole list now and seeing the winners I cannot get away from the impression that the judging was very biased towards certain games. One of the main keys for the fpsc competition was innovative and original and the games that excell in that didn't win at all, very odd."


That always happens. In fact it was the banner competition results that stopped me coming on this site for nearly a year.

FredP
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 17:01
Quote: "One of the main keys for the fpsc competition was innovative and original and the games that excell in that didn't win at all, very odd."


I haven't played Meat yet...knowing Butters I think I'll wait until I get a house full of people to make me feel safe.
I have played Beyond Life and IMO up to this point it is one of the best levels I have ever played.Any issues with this game are engine related.
I am not sure what you mean when you say the FPSC games that won weren't innovative.Like I said I haven't played Meat yet but Butter fingers is french "innovative and original".
If you don't believe me fire up the demo of Umbra.
In all fairness to the judges (and having been in that position myself) there are a lot of entries and each judge looks for different things and will give different scores.
I haven't checked out what you entered for the competition,Ben, but I usually like your stuff.
There were,as I understand it,judges from both Nvidia and TGC.If Nvidia did as good a job of judging as they have done with the rest of this competition that would more than explain any problems.
I hope to get to check out as many entries as I can as soon as I have the time...

Please have mercy and use the search function.
BatVink
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 17:43
Quote: "In fact it was the banner competition results that stopped me coming on this site for nearly a year"


That one was voted for by the forum members, and I got Rich to double-check the count. I remember, because the first attempt at reckoning up the votes resulted in me winning with a very average banner. The result was ultimately worked out accurately - I didn't win

I put in the newsletter everything that was handed to me, sorry - I can't comment on missing games, rankings etc. But one thing is always guaranteed in these things. People will always have different opinions to the judges. There will always be a subjective element to picking winners. That's why David Hockney is popular, even though I think he is no better than a ten year-old.

Benjamin A
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 17:53
Quote: "I haven't played Meat yet...knowing Butters I think I'll wait until I get a house full of people to make me feel safe.
I have played Beyond Life and IMO up to this point it is one of the best levels I have ever played.Any issues with this game are engine related."


Couldn't agree more and my comments weren't directed at these 2 games, so allow me to quoto myself from the post you're replying to:

Quote: "The winners Beyond Life and Meat are great and worthy winners, "


http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 18:09 Edited at: 5th Sep 2007 18:10
Quote: "That one was voted for by the forum members, and I got Rich to double-check the count. I remember, because the first attempt at reckoning up the votes resulted in me winning with a very average banner. The result was ultimately worked out accurately - I didn't win "


I'll link back to it, I'm still annoyed by it now after reading it. might take another year off. It's Rich's attitude that bugs me the most...


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=85785&b=2

Kentaree
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 18:39
Meh, Rich isn't working for TGC anymore, and he was right too, people voted for that person, deal with it. Wouldn't be surprised if most of the people who complained didn't vote at all, which would mean they had no right to complain in the first place, but meh.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 01:29
Quote: "Meh, Rich isn't working for TGC anymore, and he was right too, people voted for that person, deal with it. Wouldn't be surprised if most of the people who complained didn't vote at all, which would mean they had no right to complain in the first place, but meh."


You believe that people voted for that winner? After reading the first couple of pages? What are the chances of people voting for the winner, and 90% of the posting community complaining about it?

Chris K
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 01:41
OMG you actually think he fixed the compo?! Why on earth would he do that?

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
Chenak
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 01:53
Don't you know? By faking the results of the banner compo Rich and the other judges made £1mill each! It all makes sense now!

hrm... actually no it doesn't, I second that why. They would have nothing to profit from it.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 02:17 Edited at: 6th Sep 2007 02:19
Not saying that Rich fixed the compo. There could have been ways to vote for yourself more than once, like the first banner compo..

and I don't care if the winner did somehow get around the voting, it's just Rich's attitude that bugged me..

Junkrock
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 02:30
Keep this thread on topic....we are campaigning to get the NVidia winners their prizes.

DaZ

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 02:39
does Nvidia have forums? Take the battle to them. Muahahaha.

Keo C
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 04:55
Quote: "Take the battle to them"

You mean write a super-spam bot.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
Raven
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 05:21
they have developer and nzone forums, but won't make any difference unless you speak to them directly.

worked for them for a year, trust me even that didn't give me instant access to talking to anyone actually in-charge simply because I wasn't working in the same office.

it actually disgruntled me so much that after my contract was up I told them what they could do with their brand new graphics cards when they asked if I could extend the contract 12months (and it was bloody good pay too)

while they have some great products and know their stuff when it comes to business in that sector, the rest they're totally inexperienced and just poor at communication. it's why they got screwed over by Microsoft on the original Xbox and also why they ended up loosing the court-case about it.

on the other hand though, I'd say that banner competition was far more a popularity contest than anything else. while the end results weren't 100% accurate it was done in a way to make it far more fair to those who didn't get the majority because Rich realised it ended up being about popularity of people on the forums. So if you want to make a stink about it being a big unfair scandal in your favour then go ahead, personally though I feel there are more important matters to talk about.

I also honestly don't believe Dino Hunter deserved to win anyway. Sorry Gatorhax but, couldn't really see many shaders at work in it, and for a shader game competition that's a big let down imo
What's more it just wasn't that fun or playable. Again for a game those are extremely important factors.

I've only been able to play a handful of the games so far (trying to see if I agree with the judge(s) decisions) some I'd say have merit... but again a large majority of games especially the FPSCreator ones either had little shaders at work, or even had them bloody turned off!

Not to be funny, but when a core point of the competition is to use and demonstrate shaders within a real-time game, and not a technology demo. Then to have games (especially the FPSCreator ones that honestly have no excuse given it's a built-in option and most of the work is pre-done for you in the model packs) just ignore that fact of the competition is beyond me.

This might also be part of why NVIDIA screwed people on the whole, their expectations might've been unrealistic on the whole; expecting something like the next FarCry or such from DBP/FPSCreator crowd, but I think if that is their reasoning it does have merit with what I've played so far.

Not to say they're not bad attempts, but on the whole the games that really lived up to the expecations of the competition most were scrapped. This left us with the competition winner (which I feel is quite well deserved tbh, was a great game on the whole), and Illusion of the Tower that honestly Mike you need your head examined for. I know you and your mates do that sort of artwork regularly but fgs it had absolutely nothing to do with the "story" at all, was just thrown in there for the hell of it. That's really what I have more against than anything else, and more over is it could've been easily censored if you didn't want tgc to find it or if they did to just think WTF by removing the textures or replacing the mesh with cubes.. some such task that takes all of what 2seconds.

I mean I fully agree this competition has been handled poorly, but on the flip side it seems only a handful of people actually took the damn thing seriously.
As such I do feel sorry for DarkCoder not getting the price he so rightly deserved, as for the rest.. dunno there's some I felt with a bit more effort to use Shaders (e.g. Beyond Life) they deserve prizes too.

I hope the developer of Beyond Life actually continues it, because I quite liked the story; and despite some serious performance issues it was quite well thought out. It's a game that I hope in the coming months he might want to consider remaking in Resident to show off it's potencial. As the level design (and this is coming from someone who does this for a living) was actually pretty damn good and well thought out.

When I'm finally done playing all of the enteries, I'll literally be pulling them apart, reviewing each one with links as part of the podcast. So I'll save most of my bitching and praise for that.

Shame on the whole though, given how much effort was put into the PhsyX competition. Some damn good enteries in that one.

GatorHex
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 05:30 Edited at: 6th Sep 2007 05:46
Quote: "I also honestly don't believe Dino Hunter deserved to win anyway. Sorry Gatorhax but, couldn't really see many shaders at work in it, and for a shader game competition that's a big let down imo"


Not winning is not my grievence! I didn't expect to win after only spending just two weeks making my first game, my problem is they refused to acknowledge I even took part, dispite the evidence otherwise, and so I never got a 'taking part' voucher most other people got.

As for playability, seems playable to me, and seems to run a hell of a lot faster than most of the things that came out of the Alienware compo for sure (which put me off DBP for years coz i thought it was a slow language). It had a begining and an end and the level restarted without the whole thing falling over. I wrote it just as a test to see if DBP was up to the job of rapid game development and to be suitible for my later War MMO project.

If TCG don't want to use it to show what can be achieved in just a couple of weeks of programming then it's their loss. I'll get over it.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Chenak
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 04:03
Bump, the people who entered deserve a prize. This problem reflects very badly on TGC and nvidia, no matter who's fault it is.
BiggAdd
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 21:20 Edited at: 15th Sep 2007 21:25
Not that Damn Banner Argument again! It always crops up!!!

There are so many artifacts because i struggled to meet the size requirements. At the time I was still new to photoshop, so probably did something wrong. I submitted 3 entries, that was a one off 5 min job.
If you don't like it then tough. I personally do not see anything wrong with it (apart from the artifacts... If i had a chance they would be fixed. But i obviously don't)!

Quote: "and I don't care if the winner did somehow get around the voting, it's just Rich's attitude that bugged me.."


Are you suggesting I fixed it so I would win? How the hell would I do that?

On Topic You guys deserve what you were promised. Some of those entries are the best I've seen from DB in a long time. Keep this thread alive and keep making noise!

I'm not sure about TGC being to blame here. Whenever I've won a TGC sponsored prize, they've always been quick off the mark to deliver. But who knows. It did say, FULL PC. I think everybody on this forum would back you up on that.

Sig removed by BiggAdd because he is everywhere.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 22:01
Quote: "Are you suggesting I fixed it so I would win? How the hell would I do that?"


I don't know .... Different IP addresses, get various relatives to vote, not bothered.

Chenak
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 22:20 Edited at: 15th Sep 2007 22:21
@Pincho - It's in the past, get over it. If you really want to complain, AGAIN make your own thread, don't spoil this one.

Back on topic, it doesn't matter who's fault it was, they still both look bad because of it. Nvidia should just fess up and send the stuff. It would be a lot more benificial to them market wise, and would cost them basically nothing.
Zappo
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 22:53 Edited at: 15th Sep 2007 22:56
Quote: "on the other hand though, I'd say that banner competition was far more a popularity contest than anything else"
Well, I came second in that and I am not popular?!

Anyway, back on topic. I am pretty amazed these prize problems are still going on. I don't understand how they can look back at what was advertised in the compo and still refuse the prizes. By 'they' I mean nVidia as I think they are the ones dragging their heels here. It really does cast a shadow over future compos.

Going slightly off topic again, I think the inclusion of adult pictures in a competition game is very dumb. Its the sort of immature thing you do as kids when you make games for your mates so you can all giggle over it in your bedrooms. Not what you do for a proper competition where you know it will be downloaded by all ages. Not big and not clever at all. Just consider what would happen if you did that and then in years to come applied for a job at a software company. All they have to do is search for your name on the Web (standard practice with any job in my experience) and they may come to the conclusion you are untrustworthy and childish. I know I would certainly have second thoughts about hiring someone for a programming job if they have a history of hiding inappropriate material inside their projects. Just a thought.
Chenak
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 00:27 Edited at: 16th Sep 2007 00:38
To be fair, the very first thing that was asked in his forum entry was "Can games have adult material?".

Though it was not very professional to forget include a warning in the game itself, he did make sure the "mature content" thing was all over his blogs, and it was mentioned in that thread ages before the competition deadline and NONE of the judges said anything. They were supposed to be answering questions in the nvidia WIP sections. They were supposed to be making sure things were suitable, if they had spent one second on that thread they could have set things straight.

He apologised in another thread and said he'd remove the content for the TGC distributable version. So stop going on about it. Everyone makes mistakes, his certainly was not the biggest or the worst. It's not exactly going to destroy the minds of the innocent youth is it?

Last time I read the competition rules, nothing said anything against mature content, though it was quite a while ago.

He still deserves his prize, I thought the Tower was a fantastic game.
GatorHex
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 00:42 Edited at: 16th Sep 2007 00:47
A good thread was supposed to make up 10% of the marks.

As they lost my game (after confirming they had it), and it was also dowloadable from my thread, I doubt anyone read them

Quote: "don't understand how they can look back at what was advertised in the compo and still refuse the prizes."


Did anyone get screenshots of it because I think it's been removed now?

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Mike Inel
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 00:50
Quote: "He apologised in another thread and said he'd remove the content for the TGC distributable version."

I did mentioned in my WIP thread that I stopped making that because it's pretty senseless...
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=32&t=91349&p=12

In my observation, I think what they're trying to do is finish their FPSCX faster and sell something, then buy us their promise, since they have no cash for now... Perhaps NVidia just won't give them anything as it's not in their agreement...
Just a thought... (Mr. Google Ad gave me the idea)

Chenak
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 00:54
All you need to do is change the models into cubes or something, no programming needed. But its up to you, it's still a fantastic game.
Mike Inel
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 00:58
TGC could add an 18+ warning in the file if they want my game to be online...
Sorry for being immature, but i won't do something about my prob if they don't do something about their prob...
Just to be fair...

BiggAdd
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 02:21
Pincho Paxton. You are pathetic. No I did not cheat on that compo! Your remarks obviously stem from jealousy. Just quit while your ahead before you embarrass yourself further in public. I honestly feel sorry for you.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 04:16
Quote: "Pincho Paxton. You are pathetic. No I did not cheat on that compo! Your remarks obviously stem from jealousy. Just quit while your ahead before you embarrass yourself further in public. I honestly feel sorry for you."


Jelous... I could make the image in this `Post Forum Message Box`. Without an art package. And even then it wouldn't have artifacts.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 05:41
Go on then. Smart Ass. That image took me 5mins in photoshop. Yes anybody could make it. But your just kicking yourself because you didn't think of it first. I think you should climb down from your high horse now. You lost.... Just face it And grow up.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 15:01
Quote: "Go on then. Smart Ass. That image took me 5mins in photoshop. Yes anybody could make it. But your just kicking yourself because you didn't think of it first. I think you should climb down from your high horse now. You lost.... Just face it And grow up.
"


What's the matter with you? You have already posted that it took 5 minutes, and that you didn't know how to use Photoshop well enough to get rid of the jpeg artifacts. Yet you are arguing with me, and defending the image as though it was a masterpiece. If it was me that created the image, and everyone said that it shouldn't have won, I would say.. "Yeah, I don't really know how it won, but I am happy to have won." I wouldn't be arguing with people in its defence. Where are the posters that voted for it? I think somebody said... "I might have voted for it, but I can't remember." Maybe somebody else, but there were not many people posting that they voted for it in your defense.

Mike Inel
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 15:13
WTF are you guys talking about???
It's not even related to TGC/Nvidia case...


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