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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] A religious poll

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 20:22 Edited at: 26th Nov 2007 20:23
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I think it was in a speech he did, as he was an atheist himself.

Richard Dawkins used it at the start of his book 'The God Delusion'.

No.Art.Here
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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 20:32
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I don't really think anything I said is going to cause this thread to be locked. I was just warning people of the possible consequences of straying from the simplicity of this discussion on religion. If it does incite that I'm trying to draw attention to myself or to cause trouble, then I'm sorry, as that's the last thing I want to do and had no intention of doing that in my message.

Fight the good fight of faith,
Lay hold on Eternal Life.
-1 Timothy 6:12-
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IanM
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 22:11
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@Bizar Guy,
It's in the first book, when they are first orbiting around Magrathea.

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demons breath
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 22:19
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Please tell me you've read some Douglas Adams apart from Hitchhiker.

The Dirk Gently books are amazing, and well worth a read...

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 22:40
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I found the other day a 'proof' that God cannot be omnipotent, but I'm not going to post it , becasue I'm not a fool.


Sudoku arts, the rabi and Nancy DrewG
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 22:47
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INH, can you please e-mail me your "proof"? Mail or AIM, MSN, and Yahoo, are down below my post.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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Guyra
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 23:01 Edited at: 27th Nov 2007 00:22
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Removed comment. It's silly coming with a comment before saying we should stop.

Ah, guess we should end it here, before it's locked.
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Grandma
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 23:01
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I knew it! INH is a paid provocateur, and his mission today is to get this thread locked. Who is paying you INH? Who's the man at the top!?

I might be part of the grammar police, but i work as a private detective in my spare time, and i just hired myself to figure this out!

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

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Peter H
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 23:25 Edited at: 27th Nov 2007 11:04
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<QUOTE DELETED BY MOD (BV)>
Ah, guess we should end it here, before it's locked.[/quote]
yeah, now that you've said what you want, let's lock it...

very mature

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
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David R
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 23:27 Edited at: 27th Nov 2007 11:02
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<DELETED BY MOD (BV)>


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Jeku
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 23:47
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You guys are forcing me to dust off my ban hammer. Please cut this dialog.

It is hypocritical to say one thing then say "Oh, but no more to prevent a lock." Some of you should know better than that

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 00:09
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Yes the problem of evil and ideas similar to the inconsistency triad have been argued since probably before the days of Epicurus, so what?

Religious discussions send threads into the abyss...

Come on guys, people have argued this one through for a very long time (Before Jesus long) and no definite answer has been made, just the ones you believe.

I'm probably sounding like a mod (and with some of my posts in the past, being hypocritical) but there's a place for all that and TGC isn't it.

I love Nancy DrewG, but not insert brain here
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Guyra
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 00:20 Edited at: 27th Nov 2007 00:24
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@Jeku: Sorry, that was silly of me. I should've thought it a bit more through. Comment removed.

@Peter H: What? I didn't say we should lock it, I said we should end the discussion so the thread DOESN'T get locked. And please don't attack like that.
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Peter H
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 00:53
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hey, didn't mean to attack you, just like jeku said, looked hypocritical, but i understand if you didn't think it through enough.

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Guyra
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 01:17 Edited at: 27th Nov 2007 01:18
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@Peter H: Ah, well. No harm done, anyways. But true, it was hypocritical indeed.
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code master
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 01:44
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Christian
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Weapon Creator V1 Is for sale!

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HeavyAmp
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 01:52
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Christian non-denominational UK

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n008
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 02:58
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Crap, i lost the poll in here. Why doesn't this blasted forum have a poll option? .

Oh well. I'll go through and count them up again tomorrow. It's late.

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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 09:33
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Quote: "Just so everyone is aware that even the slightest suggestion of religion (apart from poll-taking) can cause huge problems. But I'm sure everyone knew that already and everyone is being sensible. Starting any subject about religion is going to be walking on wafer-thin ice"


Bizar Guy, read the last few pages and then decide whether or not the above comment (posted by myself a page or so back) is only to bring attention to myself, as you stated.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 10:32
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@tha_rami: My family moved here when I was 8, I could probably get an Irish passport if I wanted, but I don't see the need, as I still consider myself Dutch

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BatVink
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 11:05
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I've deleted the posts where people thought it was OK to express their opinion, and tell everyone else not to get the thread locked. The next one will have to be a lock.

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Clackersmith
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 12:33 Edited at: 27th Nov 2007 12:45
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I would have to say I’m about as secular as they come, but then again one of the many definitions of the word goes along the lines of: one who is secular does not concern one self with religion or spiritual matters. I do concern myself on a daily basis with religious affairs, just not from the standpoint of a ‘believer’.

I hesitate to use the term atheist here because I honestly believe such facile discriminations are unwarranted. You are either spiritual or you are not spiritual. Labelling people with terms that describe the things they are not is clearly not the way things should be done.

Within other institutions people are not subject to this unnecessary discrimination. Those of you who work as I.T technicians would never imagine your job title being renamed to “no-labourer”. If you stack shelves down at your local shopping centre you are not branded as a “no-CEO”. People should simply be identified by that which they do or believe, not with that which they do not do and do not believe.

Why should matters affiliated with religious belief not be subject to the same systems of classification as everything else? Wait, on second thought, don’t answer that, I already know what the answer will be.

Location - Australia

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tha_rami
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 12:49
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@Kentaree: Goeiemorgen!


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Kentaree
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 12:50
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Of middag

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da power pwnerer
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 12:59
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Christian
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-Dan


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Raven
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 14:11
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Quote: "I've deleted the posts where people thought it was OK to express their opinion, and tell everyone else not to get the thread locked. The next one will have to be a lock."


Was surprised my last post wasn't part of that.
Difficult to justify a religion as real without citing things against the religious debating...

Although forgot to post last time it's good to see a second Jedi here ^_^

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BatVink
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 15:10
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Well, you didn't debate anything, you just explained what the basis of Jedi'ism was.

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 15:18
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i'm so proud of this community right now for staying mature with this thread, we're all adults correct, within reason that would visit this thread.


and now for a lighter moment

book..I hate book, book is stupid .

Zombie


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Libervurto
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 17:09
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I'm glad no one has flamed so far
I think that's because on a normal thread if even the word "religion" is posted people see that as a sign to start preaching or arguing and they don't really care if they get slapped (done that myself before )
but doing that would ruin noo8's work so like zombie said, well done for not going crazy

"You must be someone's friend to make comments about them." - MySpace lied.
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dark coder
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 19:55
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Quote: "I've deleted the posts where people thought it was OK to express their opinion, and tell everyone else not to get the thread locked. The next one will have to be a lock."


Why was Jeku's comment not removed too then?

Quote: "I'm not saying one path is "true" over the other, but just hear me out. How can some people just not care one way or the other? It very well could be the most important "search" of your life, and to just pass it off as meh? I can't imagine anything lazier"


Jeku is implying that anyone who doesn't follow a religion is lazy, and that following one is very important; both of which IMO are opinions against atheism.

And to answer the topic at hand: I am an atheist and am British, though I live in Japan.

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JerBil
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 20:00
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Christian
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 20:20
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@Sonic 91 Software, you're prooving yourself a fool, and if you'd look at the post content after your posted up until now, you'd see it. Now I'm mad at you. I can't believe you quoted youself on how something you posted is prooving what it started. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were trying to proove you WERE trying to draw attention to yourself. And you must have only skimmed my one other post to you, because I was pointing out that this would happen because of you, and it is.

So just stop. You can't make your situation better by posting, and there's nothing to appologise for that you haven't already.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 20:34 Edited at: 27th Nov 2007 21:18
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Quote: "Jeku is implying that anyone who doesn't follow a religion is lazy, and that following one is very important; both of which IMO are opinions against atheism."

I interpreted it as him saying that whoever just doesn't care or think about religion (including idealistic views or atheist views) is lazy. That's an opinion he's entitled to have.

BTW, I do not find the above to be discussion of any kind, and certainly not religious. Let's keep this thing on track.


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Sonic 91 Software
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 20:46
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Quote: "@Sonic 91 Software, you're prooving yourself a fool, and if you'd look at the post content after your posted up until now, you'd see it. Now I'm mad at you. I can't believe you quoted youself on how something you posted is prooving what it started. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were trying to proove you WERE trying to draw attention to yourself. And you must have only skimmed my one other post to you, because I was pointing out that this would happen because of you, and it is.

So just stop. You can't make your situation better by posting, and there's nothing to appologise for that you haven't already."


Again, let's go back to what I said. Debating religion is dangerous territory, and look what's happened. Any debate has been deleted by a mod. So what I said was correct. How's that drawing attention to myself?

Fight the good fight of faith,
Lay hold on Eternal Life.
-1 Timothy 6:12-
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 21:07
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Quote: "It is hypocritical to say one thing then say "Oh, but no more to prevent a lock." Some of you should know better than that
"

I Apologise.
Agent Dink, e-mail sent.
Grandma
Well, out good friend Sudoku Arts is at the top of course. He is secretly paying me to overthrow you and the Mod Squad to get every topic locked from religieous debate and so that the blame is not seen, we have pretended to become imortal enemies, by using things like 'insert brain here' and 'sudoku arts' to hide it.

...
...
...Damn.


Sudoku arts, the rabi and Nancy DrewG
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Robin
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 21:18
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hmm...why hasn't the Family Federation been included in your list?

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David R
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 21:20 Edited at: 27th Nov 2007 21:21
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Quote: "I've deleted the posts where people thought it was OK to express their opinion, and tell everyone else not to get the thread locked. The next one will have to be a lock."


I feel even more 'enraged' to share my opinion now, than I did when I posted the original text. Did you even read what I wrote?

In the 100% likelihood that you didn't, I shared my opinion, 'balanced' against the opposite view, and stated an objective outcome. Case in point: The Viet Nam one shared a lot of opinion, but I just wanted to establish that it was invaded for more besides the welfare of its people.

And with the triad of inconsistency, all I said was that neither view could be 100% proven or dis-proven by it, because both sides depend on assumption

So if anything, I was trying to defuse an argument (at least in the latter, the former wasn't entirely necessary) not create one. And in any case, how on earth can my posts be inciting arguments etc. if Jeku's do not? I don't have anything against your post Jeku, and it was 'fair' since you explained its purpose, and it didn't intentionally seek argument. But there is definitely a lack of logic regarding the removal of my (and other) posts, if that one wasn't removed.


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BatVink
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 21:28
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Quote: "In the 100% likelihood that you didn't, I shared my opinion, 'balanced' against the opposite view,"


Opinion is the problem, balanced or not. I wasn't trying to be harsh with anyone, in fact this thread has proved that other than the odd lapse we can all be mature about the OP's request. Rather than lock the entire thread, I removed anything debatable and let it continue.

As for Jeku's post, I deliberately didn't say "all posts" because I didn't read every last word; some things just stood out. If I wanted to do the same with Jeku's post, I couldn't anyway because mods can't edit other mods posts.

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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 21:48 Edited at: 27th Nov 2007 21:51
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Quote: "Jeku is implying that anyone who doesn't follow a religion is lazy, and that following one is very important; both of which IMO are opinions against atheism."


Notice I didn't mention atheism in my post, *or* that following a "religion" is very important. I for one don't consider myself religious at ALL. It was about the laziness for the search of your own truth, and was not biased toward any faith (or lack thereof). It was mainly directed at agnostics, which is not a religion in itself if you know the real meaning of the word.

If some of you really are *that* whiny and offended by my comment that was not debating one way or the other, but the search itself, then I've removed it.

Honestly, if someone else wrote that it would not be mentioned, but because I'm a mod I get my posts picked apart heavier.

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David R
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 21:54
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Quote: "Honestly, if someone else wrote that it would not be mentioned, but because I'm a mod I get my posts picked apart heavier. "


It's not that that's the problem though - other posts have been obliterated for having any opinion in them. Why should yours be any different?


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IanM
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 22:07
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Don't turn this thread into a whine - deal with it and move on.

@demons breath,
Two I think (Long dark teatime of the soul and one other) - they just didn't grab me as much as HHG did

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demons breath
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 22:08
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How could you say such a thing?

Mind you I did listen to the Hitchhiker original series tapes like daily for about 2 years so...

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Luciferia
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Atheist from England (and proud of it)
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Grandma
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 00:01
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Quote: "Atheist from England (and proud of it)"


I hope you mean the "from England" part, or else you're just one of seppuku's hired provocateurs. How sad...

Does it really take that much effort, people? To atleast try to show that you are tolerant of other religions (or lack off)? Why must the satanist be on the moral highground? I have strong opinions towards different religions, but i do atleast keep them off these forums for the same reasons everyone else should.

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 00:13
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Quote: "Again, let's go back to what I said. Debating religion is dangerous territory, and look what's happened. Any debate has been deleted by a mod. So what I said was correct. How's that drawing attention to myself?"

Again, you completely ignored most of the post. Like the part that I said there was no debate until you brought it up. Even in the first post I make to you, I only mentioned that you APPEARED to be trying to get attention. I even mentioned that you probably had NO INTENTION OF SUCH. Stop getting you panties in a bunch because I don't think highly of you. It's a forum, it takes little to redeem yourself in my eyes. This however, isn't it.

Please just shut up. There's nothing to debate with me, as you're not denying what I'm implying; you're denying something completely different, which I could care less about.

Of course, feel free to keep posting. But unless you really piss me off, I don't think I'll respond anymore.


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xplosys
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 00:14
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Very interesting thread, just to see the numbers.

I am agnostic, but beginning to lean toward Rockism. Throw in a mandatory drinking rule and I'm there.

Hail Matt!

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 00:47 Edited at: 28th Nov 2007 00:47
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Quote: "It was about the laziness for the search of your own truth"

I understand Jeku's point perfectly. His original post didn't come across as clearly as the verbose version, so I see where the confusion came from, but they aren't that different.

I have to say that I agree to some extent with the comment, though I'd have worded it differently. I don't understand the agnostic frame of mind. It isn't about finding religion, it's about the 'search of your own truth' in whatever manner you find that works for you. Religion works for most people. If someone hasn't pondered spiritual questions in some manner I can't help but find that odd.

I see the negativity as whining as well, it's off topic and won't resolve anything so it's pointless. I'm glad that Batvink put this thread on life support, let's not kill it.


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Raven
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 02:49
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Quote: "hmm...why hasn't the Family Federation been included in your list?"


Haven't seen anyone claim to be Family Federation; so far only those religions up there are those people have said they are.

There are no hindus on there yet
damn sight more of them in the world than Jedi

As for the whole religion and meep-meep of people about the posts.
just a Q.E.D. Religion is entirely opinion and belief, if you agree or not with someone elses' opinion has led to many wars because of disagreement of belief and opinion.

No one has said anyone is wrong, or right as such. As I see it, you only look bad for your belief if you make a mountain out of a molehill especially if it doesn't really exist.

Tollerance is the key here guys, if you can't accept tollerance of others views then please don't post. That is what the AUP rule is mainly about preventing; so keep that in mind with the responses posted.

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DrewG
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 04:52
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Christian Pentecostal

U.S.A

Seriously, not to go off topic, my views of all these forum members are changing, for both better and worse. I mean, never mind, but some I'd expect to not be atheist, and others not Christian, really weird here.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 05:00
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@Cash:
Agnostic people come in two flavours: the one that have thought about things and the ones who haven't. A bit like any religion or ideology, in other words. Agnostic people, or semi-agnostic people ( like me ) believe that:

1) if God exists, he can not be proven by humanity.
2) if God does not exist, he can not be disproven by humanity.

That doesn't mean that there is no thought - it just means all thought is completely hypothetical. Ironically, Agnosticism can mix with religion as point 1 implies that (a) God or Allah can actually exist.


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