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Geek Culture / I am finally wiith it!

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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 20:41
Quote: "Enjoy playing Lair Jeku"


Enjoy your Jenga World Tour (26/100), your Ninjabread Man (25/100), your Balls of Fury (14/100) and your Anubis II (19/100).

David R - Did it take you a long time to come up with that comeback? I own all three consoles so I have the pleasure of picking and choosing the best games on all the consoles

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 20:52 Edited at: 21st Dec 2007 20:55
Never heard of those games, well I know what Jenga is, but didn't know it had a game on the Wii - games that derive from board games and such like will often be crap, like monopoly, Scrabble etc. because they were meant for family and friends to sit around a table and interact physically with them...though on a console you don't have to tidy up the mess - but it still is no where near as fun.

Ninjabreadman - the title itself makes me laugh, I need to find someone who has it so I can just giggle at it...for the sake of the title.

But as for ratings, they don't say everything...some people gave the Spongebob movie a bad rating. It was a brill movie. But not hearing of these games does probably say something about the developers and probably why the reviews called them 'crap'.

I love Nancy DrewG, but not insert brain here
Jeku
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 21:25 Edited at: 21st Dec 2007 21:26
Metacritic is a ratings aggregate, it pulls an average rating from dozens of sites and magazines, so it's the best way to gauge a game in my opinion. Much more so than any one ratings site.

Quote: "But not hearing of these games does probably say something about the developers and probably why the reviews called them 'crap'."


"Not hearing of these games" does not factor into a review. That makes no sense, actually. They were rated crap because they are crap.

The only reason I'm digging it up was because of David R's. "brilliant" and seriously thought-provoking and fact-rich comeback that I should play Lair. His clearly misguided "argument" is both hilarious and sad, for him that is. It's dreadful considering it's a lame attempt at a lashout because I'm making comments about the Wii, which is obviously the golden-boy of this forum. I never called the Wii crap. I never said it deserves anything less than a fair chance. Anyways, I'm used to David's illogic enough to not care

David R
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 21:30 Edited at: 21st Dec 2007 21:49
Quote: "
The only reason I'm digging it up was because of David R's. "brilliant" and seriously thought-provoking and fact-rich comeback that I should play Lair. His clearly misguided "argument" is both hilarious and sad, for him that is. It's dreadful considering it's a lame attempt at a lashout because I'm making comments about the Wii, which is obviously the golden-boy of this forum. I never called the Wii crap. I never said it deserves anything less than a fair chance. Anyways, I'm used to David's illogic enough to not care"


The reason I said that was nothing to do with platform - it was in reply to the "That is not as common as it used to be" thing with the graphics over gameplay. I could of easily cited an example from the Wii, but Lair is the first one that came to mind (mainly due to the media frenzy that ensued post-launch)

So yeah, I agree; those games you posted do indeed suck. And so does Lair. Wasn't anything to do with platforms etc. just remarking that good graphics no-game console titles are alive and well in 2007


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
demons breath
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 21:37
Quote: " games that derive from board games and such like will often be crap, like monopoly"


I sincerely hope you're not including the monopoly game you can play for money on pub ItBoxes because that's awesome. Although it does get a bit tiresome when you've got a mate like mine who is perfectly content to play more than 100 games (at 2 games for a pound) in one day...

"A West Texas girl, just like me"
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 22:07
Quote: "Quote: "But not hearing of these games does probably say something about the developers and probably why the reviews called them 'crap'."

"Not hearing of these games" does not factor into a review. That makes no sense, actually. They were rated crap because they are crap.
"


Well, no, got that one the wrong way round, being crap is probably why I've never heard of them.

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RalphY
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 22:14
I like how at least two of those games Jeku linked were originally PS2 games.

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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 22:15 Edited at: 21st Dec 2007 22:18
Quote: "
How can you say PCs should be for casual gaming only"


I didn't say that. I said that casual games belong on the PC (right next to crysis, C&C and The Sims 2) As far as I'm concerned, console and PC games are seperated only by the hardware peripherals. (The wii is a different story, so don't try using that against me here) PC gamers and console gamers should just get along. I'm on your side here.

Quote: "Really what's so bad about the Wii? It's a new console - yes it brings back some old school stuff with a modern touch, well those games really got gamers active and it was systems like the old Nintendos that are responsible for todays gaming"


Yes. Super Mario paved the path for platformers, but if we saw that thing on the shelves for £40 today, would we think: "Wow! Nintendo's being innovative, fresh and catering for the new audiences. Most of all, this game is a fun idea that I never would have considered before!" hey wouldn't say that. Think about what you said.

Tut tut tut.

Quote: "Realy if it wasn't for Nintendo marketing/spin and the controller designed for elderly and girls who don't know one end of a joypad from another no-one would have bought it."


Exactly. It's great that they've opened up to this audience, but it's only because they've made their image more 'family' friendly.

Chris K, it's great to see I'm not alone here. Sock it to 'em!


@everyone: I don't think the wii is bad for just being fun. Games are meant to entertain. My theory of 'gaming capitolism-marxism' is just a theory. But it could happen. But I stand by what I said. Until Nintendo gets over the fact that they have a shiny wiimote and gives us more than "swing me to whack the ball", they will never contribute to gamings status as an art form.

Yes, it's fun to play games. It needs to be. But how can you make that a selling point when it's a necessity?

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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 22:17
Quote: "I like how at least two of those games Jeku linked were originally PS2 games."


What does that have to do with anything? If anything it proves my point that the publishers are slapping over ports and adding crap "waggle" controls as an afterthought. They know the soccer moms and grannies will buy all the Happy Feet and Cars games they can make, simply because they have Wii on the cover. And can we blame them?

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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 22:20 Edited at: 21st Dec 2007 22:33
Quote: "Until Nintendo gets over the fact that they have a shiny wiimote and gives us more than "swing me to whack the ball", they will never contribute to gamings status as an art form. "


You do realise Nintendo is the company that made LoZ: OoT and LoZ:TP? If you don't think they contributed to 'gaming status as an art form' in any way then you clearly have a poor grasp of what gaming as an art form is.

@Jeku: so it's a problem when these crap games are released on the Wii because consumers can't be bothered to do their research, but it wasn't a problem on PS2? I agree so far there has been a large number of crap games on the Wii (though theres alot more on the PC) but it doesn't matter - I just don't buy them.

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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 22:26
I want to make this clear. I love Nintendo. That is I loved Nintendo. The N64 gave birth to iconic characters and memorable games and the DS pwns the PSP into the ground. Unlike the wii, it makes good use of its unique controls. But the wii has made me realise that casual gaming is diminishing games such as Ocarina of Time with its cooking Mama and Rayman mini games.

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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 22:32
There are TONS of good casual games. In fact, the casual game genre is fast becoming my favourite. There is a difference between "casual" and "mini-game compilation". Please don't confuse them

demons breath
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 22:49
Quote: "'gaming capitolism[sic]-marxism'"


How does that work? Kind of an oxymoron there...

and I do like casual games/mini games; I'm much more likely to play them. I just wouldn't choose to spend money on them, that's what the internet's for.

I bought Rayman for the game cube a while back; that had way too many lame mini games on. It said it was multiplayer on the box, so I bought it because apart from THPS:Underground I didn't have any multiplayer games. Turned out you could play a couple of the mini games multiplayer. Provided you had a gameboy advance with the rayman game and a way of connecting it to the gamecube. Slightly disappointing, that...

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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 23:55
I do like casual games. Like I said, games must be fun to play. But these games don't contribute to videogames understanding as an art form. (Like I've said a bazillion times)

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 00:25
Quote: "Yes. Super Mario paved the path for platformers, but if we saw that thing on the shelves for £40 today, would we think: "Wow! Nintendo's being innovative, fresh and catering for the new audiences. Most of all, this game is a fun idea that I never would have considered before!" hey wouldn't say that. Think about what you said.

Tut tut tut."


No, we wouldn't think they're being innovative if it's the same thing put on the shelf - so I think I'll go over what I said...

A console with games that bring old style games and old games with more improvements - one is the controller - now the controller isn't entirely original but it has better technology than previous arcade game controllers - which is a part of the enhancement in gameplay. Because of the games derived from this - it has grasp the interest of newer audiences. Now, super Mario slapped on the shelf with a bigger price - yes, plus it's better, with differences and newer things and from the N64 version is definitely a graphical improvement. But then isn't Crysis just the same in respect to Farcry? Isn't Doom 3? The XBox 360 and PS3 made improvements in the technology inside of the machine - so that 3D can be faster, graphics can be better and there's room for better physics with its better processors and its game developers take advantage. The Wii didn't, they thought they'd improve something else - the controller of how you play the game and it's game developers take that advantage.

As for the art form - why do you need to criticise the Wii for that - the PS3 and XBox 360 aren't exactly contributing towards the casual part of gaming, where people might want to have a bit of fun for a little bit - and have something they might have giggle with. But does that matter? No, because they're not trying to. The Wii isn't supposed to be contributing to the art form - its trying to contribute to the art form as everybody else else is doing that for them - Nintendo have more room to pick up the interest of other people.

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 00:56
So whats with the wii bashing? High-end graphics do add that extra layer of flavor but if the game is bad what would be the point in playing it. I mean would you play Drake and the 99 Dragons in HD? On the other end, it is these sloppy cash-outs on the wii that anger people and annoy the hell out of me.

They make nintendo's console look like a cop-out, but anyway.

I do not understand the graphics argument anymore, I'm going to play what I want, be it on the ps3,xbox,wii, or pc. Isn't that what its about? Console superiority has become very annoying, why can't you who start the fights take a moment to say this to yourself, a little mantra before you become pissy.

"I am a gamer, I play video games for challenge and fun, I will not be a dick and I will not impose on the fun of this software."


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 01:12
I think that if religion an politics are banned because of the fact that the opinions of some people offend others, then the same should be done to console discussions. It's simply too much for everyone here to handle I guess.



The way everyone bashes consoles here it's a wonder anyone even plays them ^_^

Give me any console and I'll play it. They ALL have something good on them. Sure we have our own preferences, but so does everyone.

It's completely ridiculous the way the Wii itself gets bashed. The Wii is an amazing piece of hardware in it's own right. It's the developers you should be mad at if anything, not Nintendo.

There are some very nice titles out right now and quite a few in the works. Wii is fun, and I still play every game we have for it, and it's been a good 4 months since we got it. I'd say that I got my money's worth out of it.

Oh how will I ever find the time for anything after Christmas with Galaxies and Guitar Hero 3?!

Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 01:20 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2007 01:22
@Zombie

Quote: "I do not understand the graphics argument anymore"


ROFL. Ironically the only ones bringing up the graphics in these arguments are the Wii defenders.

We're not bashing the Wii graphics. We're bashing all the bad games on the console. The half-assed games and PS2 ports that are cash grabs.

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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 01:47
@ Jeku

Whoops, well thats what happens when I only read between the lines, well if you wanna talk bad games, then ya the wii has a lot of them. So I"m just gonna shut up and play 360.


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BiggAdd
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 12:12
The Wii does have a lot of bad games, but for the price its not going to hurt if you only buy a few games for it.

I have a Xbox 360 and a Wii, I only have 2 games for the Wii (Zelda and Wii Sports) and i've had it since last christmas (will be 3 games when i get mario galaxy on tuesday).

I was thinking of getting a PS3 in the new year to buy little big planet when it is released, but I won't be using it as a gaming machine, just a blu-ray player.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 13:27 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2007 14:21
I edited due to some hot headedness and a bit of bad language.

But I was annoyed by the whole discussion. Perhaps agent dink is right, these sort of discussion have no place here.

I love Nancy DrewG, but not insert brain here
Pus In Boots
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 13:56
I haven't lost my cool. We're having a lively debate about something we feel passionate about. I relish the idea really. Still, I'm going to hang up my arguing cap and leave my opinions immortilised in this thread through my existing posts. Before I run for the hills, I will say that the wii is goo on its own merits, but the bad outweighs the good with me. Similarly, the PS3 is a huge dissapointment to me. I bought a 360 and I stand by it. I do like casual/party games but as far as gaming as an art form goes, they don't add anything. But they are fun to play and I may have been off base by saying that they should be disowned because of it. But I do stand by this: The fact that they're fun should NOT be Nintendo's selling point. BioShock is fun, but 2k doesn't advertise it saying: "This game is fun. There are some Big dudes for you to fight which is awesome. And you do it with amazing hardware. You use the analog sticks to move your player. OMG!"

There's my two cents. Off I go.

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Van B
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 13:56
Hehe, we'll have to vito console Vs discussions just like we do with political and religious threads .

I agree, I think we should just be glad that there is a lot of choice out there these days - I mean the XBox and PS2 both had pretty much the same games, it was getting a bit dull a few years back. Whatever inspires game developers to make imaginative titles is a good thing, all the consoles have their own benefits.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 14:09 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2007 14:25
Right, good. As long as we all understand the consoles are fine to survive side by side because all gamers are different and prefer one of the other. At least we can agree the consoles aren't for everyone but they fulfill their purposes.

With Nintendo's advertisement, I'd probably say people advertise to the best way they think they'll sell the product - Bioshock has more selling values on other aspects of the game. I'm not one who buys because of adverts, because they do often try to be overly biased.

I love Nancy DrewG, but not insert brain here
Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 14:34
Quote: "The fact that they're fun should NOT be Nintendo's selling point"


I still don't understand why you would say this. The only reason I or anyone else I know buys games is to have fun...

I don't buy (purposely) boring games, or games just because they are artistic, and hey, alot of art looks like crap too, not all painters had mad skills and even if they did, they didn't always use them. There are many simply FUN looking pieces of art once in while. Art is how one expresses themselves, it doesn't have to look good. My games are all half painted canvases, and I'd like to think you can learn alot about me through the games or other work I design, while they don't look next-gen(!ZOMG) or as clean cut as many a modern game, they're still (meant to be) fun and enjoyable and that's all that really counts for a game.

Sure, the next next-gen big time shooter is like looking at a sprawling, detailed, beautiful piece of art about some big war, but looking at some other games (alot of Wii games) you can sorta picture a fun, less serious, piece of abstract art. Not necessarily something epic, but something that's fun, something that most people can look at and laugh, or take a few seconds to wonder what it's all about.

That's how I see gaming as an art form. Of course you get some junk mixed in with all the good, but hey, it's your gallery, you decide what you want to buy That's all there is to that.

This wasn't meant in an argumentive tone. Ya'll hung up your battle helmets. I just wanted to share my view on the art form of games.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 15:24
That's one way to put it I guess.

I suppose you have limericks and you have Sonnets.

A limerick is there to make you giggle
A Sonnet is there you make you go 'aww'

Both are poetic art forms.

Film making is an art form:

Spongebob the Movie is there for light entertainment and laughs
Man on Fire is an emotional piece that's beautiful and deep

Perhaps the trend follows.

I love Nancy DrewG, but not insert brain here
Pus In Boots
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 16:12
@Agent Dink: Well put.

Quote: "I still don't understand why you would say this. The only reason I or anyone else I know buys games is to have fun..."


What I'm saying is that games are supposed to be fun before anything else. It almost makes it sound as if Nintendo deserves a reward for making their games fun, when any game above the 6.0 rating must be fun to play anyway. The 360 is fun, but that's not their selling point. Because Microsoft realises that a game being fun is a necessity, not a privilage.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 16:29
3 cheers for the Wii.

FPS and racing games are getting seriously old.

If the Wii didn't come along this generation I think the gaming industry would be in big trouble in a while...

Check out the WIP boards for "Schmump Go-Karting" - screens & videos
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 16:50 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2007 16:52
Well all good games have a level of fun and art, so no Nintendo shouldn't get an award for that. They should take the credit for looking at gaming in a different way that its competitors and making a console that allows for people to take a break from the norm. If the norm was consistent it would get boring, not that I'm saying the norm needs to change - but we need more games of the type that can give us a break for hardcore in depth games...at the same time not being crap. Games for the Wii exercise gaming differently - all of my non-Wii games are quite in depth and require a number of hours to complete and a level of attention and concentration. (currently playing: Oblivion with both of its expansion packs - surprise I didn't pick this up sooner, I love it to pieces - though buggy in places) I play games generally as a break from doing work, so I don't always want an in depth game to play - thankfully games the Wii has, no just the Wii, but the DS too have games I like that satisfy my needs for 'taking a break' Now I don't own either a PS3 or Xbox 360, but there aren't any games on the PS2, Gamecube or PC that do that and that I like.

Nintendo's encourage of this is to credit of course, so yeah 'fun' games isn't the best word to be used, just as much as 'art' isn't the best term to be used for others - perhaps there isn't a word best to credit Nintendo, MS or Sony for...other than for giving the developers an opportunity to improve gaming and making us sad lonely gamers feel special.

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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 17:58
Just wait for another 8-10 months when Nintendo releases their new version of the Wii. If that doesn't happen, all those grannies and mothers who bought the Wii for the experience will be bored, and the console will be third place.

For the majority of soccer moms they will not be going to Future Shop every month and picking up new games. They bought the Wii for the experience of playing Wii Sports, and that's it.

Of course that's just my own prediction and it's probably wrong

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 18:21
And what about the rest of Wii players - you'd probably find a number of Wii buyers bought them for family members and participated in the fun - even in their attention span goes, the person they bought it for.

As far as console gaming goes, my parents tend to play the rare game they consider decent - they bought us the original Playstation and had fun on it - got bored, a new game later game out - complete that and then leave the console to us - my Mum was a huge fan of Crash Bandicoot 2, bought the first one, completed that too - never played it again. But a new game always game a long that interested parents, even on moving onto the PS2 and I reckon for them the trend will occur on the Wii. I'm not saying all your Wii buyers of that type are going to be like that - but generally casual gaming is something you casually do - when you feel like it, rather than just seeing a new fad and getting bored of it when the excitement has gone. Just because the Wii isn't aimed at hardcore gamers doesn't mean interest will die out from large parts of its target audience.

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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 19:05
I can say with certainty that 99.9% of the soccer moms who bought a Wii are NOT the type to play new games themselves, every month. That is not the norm

My parents asked me to bring the Wii to my grandma's place for Christmas, and they told me to make sure I brought the bowling game. That's the *only* game they know, and that is the norm.

This is the same thing as the phenomena of adults buying a PS2 for Guitar Hero, and that's it. They bought it for that one experience, and that is all. That's a huge part of the Guitar Hero market, believe it or not.

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 19:07
Ninegy PlaWiiBox?
Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 19:31
I dunno, perhaps it isn't the norm, but most of the people that age I know will do anything they find fun and once in a while resort to console gaming. The norm might be different here than there. I suppose really to know is to do a survey and to be honest I can't be arsed with that. You're probably right, most people I know themselves differ from the norm of society - my parents just got into going to big metal festivals - for goodness sakes my Mum went to see Devil Driver.

Quote: "Ninegy PlaWiiBox?
Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me."


It'll solve consoles wars and eliminate annoying little console fan boys. Instead it'll be FPS vs RPG...which is just a bit more bearable.

mjoðr er lekker
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 20:20
You seem to have a error in the thread title, you've put 2 I's in the with.

Your signature has been erased by a mod
Insert Name Here
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...[b][/b]


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Accoun
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 20:34
Quote: "You seem to have a error in the thread title, you've put 2 I's in the with. "

Ok, now go play Nintendo Wi...

Make games, not war.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 20:53
Well I think Wii in itself is a spelling error...It's a Nintendo Wifi, a Nintendo system the utilizes your wireless connection...Not some thing you wish to urinate on.

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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 23:05
NOT urinate on!?! Oh crap! What have I done!?!

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 23:29
This also would explain the source of Nex's problem.

mjoðr er lekker
David R
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 13:38
Quote: "you've put 2 I's in the with. "


Must say, I didn't actually notice the pun in the thread title until you said that (i.e I didn't notice it was spelt incorrectly)


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 15:25 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2007 15:26
lol, dare I say it, we just got Guitar Hero III for the Wii...*shakes head in disbelief*

I must say my brother is terrible...I'll find out if I'm any good...

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 17:34
I have not urinated upon my Wii. It might cool it down, though. Why is Vii in the Firefox dictionary whilst Wii isn't?


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
bitJericho
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 17:43
Cuz vii also means seven.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 17:44
It's probably in there because vii is the roman numeral for 7.

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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 19:40
Quote: "lol, dare I say it, we just got Guitar Hero III for the Wii...*shakes head in disbelief*"


Make sure you take advantage of Activision upgrading those copies for free. They're the subject of a class action lawsuit right now over that game

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 20:13
Really? What for?

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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 21:16 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2007 21:16
Because it's in mono and says otherwise on the box. Apparently you can't even hear some of the instruments because one of the channels is missing

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 21:26
Not noticed to be honest, well listening to it now (my brother is playing) it is mono, but it has not really effected gameplay, but hey, if they're giving away free disks with the bug fixed, then I'm not complaining.

Of course Guitar Hero III rocks, it's addictive and well I'm proud of myself for scoring 53k, yeah not the highest score in the world, but I own everybody else in this house.

mjoðr er lekker
Van B
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Posted: 24th Dec 2007 00:48
I takes a lot of practice to get really good, but it's worth it. Shame about the bugs though, I find the sound quality on GH3 is worse than GH2, unless I'm playing through my surround sound then it's not so noticeable. When I play One or Even Flow, I want it loud anyway.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?

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