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Geek Culture / I am finally wiith it!

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Krilik
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Posted: 24th Dec 2007 08:20
Why is everyone so obsessed with GHIII? Its a waste of time. If you have the ability to pick up the guitar controller and play some songs on GH, why not just go buy a real guitar, its a lot more satisfying.

After completing it through medium, all I have to say is it left me was nauseous, and annoyed.
Jeku
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Posted: 24th Dec 2007 09:29
^^^ Used to agree. Not anymore.

People buy games for a fantasy--- for an experience. You wouldn't tell someone to go learn how to play soccer if he plays FIFA. You also wouldn't tell someone to go learn how to drive a real race car if he plays NASCAR or GT.

GH3 is silly, in my opinion, but all the same people fantasize about being a rock star without having to put years into a hobby. It's nothing more than fantasizing about being a nerdy hero when playing Half-Life 2.

Van B
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Posted: 24th Dec 2007 13:40
It's a rhythm based game with decent music, personally I like rhythm based games, even the ones in Fusion Frenzy - so when they made one with a guitar instead of a stupid crippling dance mat I was overjoyed .


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
RalphY
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Posted: 24th Dec 2007 13:41
Funny thing is, most of the people I know that play GH can already play guitar. Maybe people play it for fun?

It's a stupid argument, why don't you go join the army if you like playing shooters? or take up boxing if you enjoy fighters? Answer its easier, less time consuming, and you don't have to leave your own house if you just play the video game

Oh boy! Sleep! That's when I'm a Viking! | Super Nintendo Chalmers!
bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Dec 2007 16:51 Edited at: 24th Dec 2007 16:52
Quote: "Why is everyone so obsessed with GHIII? Its a waste of time."




http://www.xkcd.com/359/


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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 24th Dec 2007 18:38
xkcd=pwnage


Sudoku arts, the rabi and Nancy DrewG
Xcom commander
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Posted: 24th Dec 2007 22:35
ummm! seems to taking a long time for the "dumb" public and grannies to realise they are lusting after a really naff console, you still have waiting lists for the Wii over a year after it`s initial release, maybe they just sell well because it actually does something people actually wanted their consoles to do?, maybe above the "hi def" GFX and "production values" most people want to interact naturally with their games and this is the nearest thing to date.
the bold design decision to sell it without a "classic" controller has forced all the developers to write in code to support the default controller, thats something that Playstation or X-box can`t match, too many users have the standard controllers, who wants to write a major game with code to support an optional (relatively expensive) controller over and above the standard "came with the box controller" ?, no one, thats who.
what I want to know is where is my VR headset console with the force feedback gloves? exactly where the latest releases of innovative and exciting games are, in the bottom of the corporate wastebin, thats where , they all have shareholders to keep happy, no innovation that endangers share bonuses is permitted, yet thats what they need to break out of the deadlock, thats my opinion.
Krilik
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Posted: 25th Dec 2007 08:18
Quote: "People buy games for a fantasy--- for an experience. You wouldn't tell someone to go learn how to play soccer if he plays FIFA. You also wouldn't tell someone to go learn how to drive a real race car if he plays NASCAR or GT."


That wasn't my point. The difference between playing GH with a guitar controller is not much different from playing a real guitar. Driving a real car and playing real soccer are not even remotely close to how you play them in a video game.

Quote: "It's a rhythm based game with decent music, personally I like rhythm based games, even the ones in Fusion Frenzy - so when they made one with a guitar instead of a stupid crippling dance mat I was overjoyed ."


So do I. But the effort it takes to learn how to play GH, especially on higher levels, seems like an absolute waste of time, when picking up a real guitar is just as time consuming and yields better results. Guitar Hero is just not worth playing past medium.

Quote: "Funny thing is, most of the people I know that play GH can already play guitar. Maybe people play it for fun?

It's a stupid argument, why don't you go join the army if you like playing shooters? or take up boxing if you enjoy fighters? Answer its easier, less time consuming, and you don't have to leave your own house if you just play the video game "


Read above. And no its not. Its stupid to obsess with the virtual equivalent of something you can physically spend the same amount of effort and time doing in real life.
bitJericho
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Posted: 25th Dec 2007 08:27
Quote: "So do I. But the effort it takes to learn how to play GH, especially on higher levels, seems like an absolute waste of time, when picking up a real guitar is just as time consuming and yields better results. Guitar Hero is just not worth playing past medium. "


Most games are a waste of time:/


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 25th Dec 2007 08:48
This all boils down to the fact that we are arguing over VIDEO GAMES.

It's stupid! OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT TASTES. We're not all mindless zombies with the same goals and ideals in life. Live with it.

Osiris
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Posted: 25th Dec 2007 09:26
Quote: "Read above. And no its not. Its stupid to obsess with the virtual equivalent of something you can physically spend the same amount of effort and time doing in real life."


Unless it's just more fun to play a video game...and so much cheaper than a real guitar as well.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Dec 2007 13:30 Edited at: 25th Dec 2007 13:30
I've not even bothered reading all of the 'new' argument posts, just remember - it brings people joy through ethical means (I say 'ethical means' just to cover myself from people saying 'murdering people' brings joy, trust me comments that daft have been used against me before) and people are willing to pay x money for x product so that they can enjoy themselves and at the end of the day isn't that what gaming is all about - making people happy, I know 1 game or game company can't please all, hence there are different games, game types and consoles.


Guitar Hero is a laugh, and it's got an addictive gameplay - yeah it fails to simulate the guitar accurately - but do people play Flight Sim because they wish to fly a plane and by playing it does it qualify them as a pilot - of course not.

mjoðr er lekker
Jeku
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 19:13
Quote: "The difference between playing GH with a guitar controller is not much different from playing a real guitar"


Hehehe, tell that to a great guitar player. He will probably slap you

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Dec 2007 19:27
It is different, that is true Jeku. It's a lot lot easier than playing a real guitar. Also, there's a video of Herman Li from dragon force playing guitar hero and he was crap - so really it isn't like playing guitar hero. But there are similarities, which is the point - it's really just a reaction game based around music.

mjoðr er lekker
Jeku
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 00:08
The top Guitar Hero player does not have a better chance at learning to play a real guitar than any Joe Schmoe who has never picked up the game. There's absolutely no correlation between the GH plastic toy guitar and a real guitar, except the shape.

Izzy545
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 04:08
Yea, guitar hero is nothing like playing the guitar. Considering the time I've spent getting good on expert it's not even comparable to being able to how much time I've spent simply learning chord progressions and basic songs on the real guitar.

Basically, there's no way you can compare playing 5 buttons to 6 strings and 20+ frets.

Keo C
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 05:09
Quote: "Joe Schmoe"

How do you all the names of my friends?


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 17:17
Quote: "
Basically, there's no way you can compare playing 5 buttons to 6 strings and 20+ frets."


Indeed, hence it's 'just a reaction game based around music', with a controller attempting to imitate a guitar to play with the player's imagination. I think the only thing that helps with guitar hero in some sons is the sense of rhythm, that's how I've been able to do better on Dragonforce. (On easy mode, of course - I'm still crap) But of course the controller plays nothing like a real guitar, for one thin, there's no bloody strings!

mjoðr er lekker
Accoun
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 18:48
Quote: "Also, there's a video of Herman Li from dragon force playing guitar hero and he was crap"

No. If I remembered it he was playing not bad but he was still owned by good GH players even through he was playing real guitar for 15 years...
Quote: "that's how I've been able to do better on Dragonforce. (On easy mode, of course - I'm still crap)"

Hmm... I'm sure I'll check my score on this song when I'll be home...

Make games, not war.

Keo C
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 18:52
Quote: "for one thing, there's no bloody strings!"

Now you gamers want strings? I'll make a note.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 19:02
Quote: "No. If I remembered it he was playing not bad but he was still owned by good GH players even through he was playing real guitar for 15 years..."


Well, crap as in owned, but nevertheless, his Guitar Hero wasn't as adequate as his Guitar playing.

Quote: "Quote: "for one thing, there's no bloody strings!"
Now you gamers want strings? I'll make a note."


No, as a Guitarist, I like strings as a gamer I like fun/enjoyable games and fun controllers.

mjoðr er lekker
Keo C
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 19:09
/scribbles out note.
Right, no strings.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 22:17
Sorry for causing you to make a mess of your notepad.

mjoðr er lekker
Roxas
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 22:23
Seppuku you should be in msn


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Krilik
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Posted: 28th Dec 2007 08:10
Quote: "There's absolutely no correlation between the GH plastic toy guitar and a real guitar, except the shape."


And the simulation of holding notes, strumming notes, shaping chords, hammer-ons, and pull-offs.

I can guarantee that anyone who has an ounce of energy to learn a GH song on Hard or Extreme has the ability to learn how to play a song on a real guitar.
Izzy545
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Posted: 28th Dec 2007 08:22
Quote: "And the simulation of holding notes, strumming notes, shaping chords, hammer-ons, and pull-offs.

I can guarantee that anyone who has an ounce of energy to learn a GH song on Hard or Extreme has the ability to learn how to play a song on a real guitar."


I would disagree. I can get 3 or 4 stars on almost any guitar hero song first time through, having never played it before. The amount of energy it took to get me to that point is nowhere near the amount of energy it's taking me to learn a real song on a real guitar.

Jeku
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Posted: 28th Dec 2007 09:58
Quote: "I can guarantee that anyone who has an ounce of energy to learn a GH song on Hard or Extreme has the ability to learn how to play a song on a real guitar."


Well, most people can technically learn to play an instrument just like a video game. That being said, a kid who is an expert at Guitar Hero doesn't have a better chance at succeeding to play a real guitar than someone who has never played Guitar Hero. Guitar Hero is a fantasy. The only thing it can help increase is a sense of rhythm and timing, but no more than DDR, Donkey Conga, Space Channel 5, Parapa the Rapper, or Fusion Frenzy and all the other timing-based games.

Krilik
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 01:46
I'm not saying because you play Guitar Hero you'll be good at playing a guitar. I'm saying the amount of engery invested in learning how to play GH songs on Hard or Extreme can be focused on learning how to play a real guitar. If you have the motivation to sit around learning how to play songs on a video game, especially Hard or Extreme, you should have the motivation to learn how to play a real guitar. The only reason why I brought up the similarities between GH and a real guitar, is because theoretically if you can use a GH controller, you should be able to use a real guitar.
bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 01:50 Edited at: 29th Dec 2007 01:51
Quote: "you should have the motivation to learn how to play a real guitar"


You've obviously never used a GH controller. They're nothing like using a real guitar. It would take months or years of practice to begin getting good at a real guitar.

And you have to want to play a real guitar.

GH takes what? Weeks? Also, GH is just fun to play, when your fingers start to get sore and blistered and you're practicing for 4 hours a day with very little to show for it (and no on screen audience), Guitars aren't all that much fun.


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Krilik
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 02:03
...

I don't even know why I bother trying to explain what I say.
bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 02:06 Edited at: 29th Dec 2007 02:06
Im just saying that your explanation is a bit lacking. It's like saying why walk when you can drive cuz you'll get there faster.

They're two different experiences to the same end!


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Krilik
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 02:18
Not really. They're two different experiences, with two different ends. My point is, the amount of enegry invested into a Guitar Hero song, can be applied to learning how to play a song on a real guitar.

Learning how to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star on a real guitar > Learning how to play Through the Fire and Flames on Expert
bitJericho
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 02:32
Quote: "Not really. They're two different experiences, with two different ends."


The same end as in 'learning a new skill'. Two different skills, two different experiences.

Twinkle twinkle little star is hardly worth learning, impressive, or exciting, and only useful in learning more about the guitar.

For that same amount of energy for someone who never played a guitar to go to playing twinkle twinkle properly, you could probably master GH


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AndrewT
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 06:46
I don't think there is much of any correlation between GH and the actual guitar, but there is definitely a relationship between your skills in GH and your music skills in general (i.e. sense of rythym, beat, etc.).

I've been playing the piano since I was 6, and I can 5-star 95% of the GH3 songs on expert. And I'm not even very good at video games in general, just GH.

asdsdfaghkdlgahdfkj.
Kentaree
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 14:07
Quote: "Learning how to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star on a real guitar > Learning how to play Through the Fire and Flames on Expert"


Do you play games Krillik? If so, why not just spend your time learning a new programming language or something else useful rather than wasting your time having fun?

Van B
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 16:06
Through the Fire etc are harder to learn in Expert mode than Twinkle Twinkle! - I mean I could probably learn that on a real guitar long before mastering GH on Expert.

Think that people who can play GH on Expert should consider trying a real guitar, because I think it would improve dexterity and stamina enough to make learning real guitar a bit easier.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
Agent Dink
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 16:12
My brother is a guitarist as well as I. We both see some slight advantages to playing Guitar Hero. It will indeed increase speed, dexterity, and stamina. It will also help increase your pinky strength a bit while playing on expert. That's a weak point with a lot of guitarists. Me for sure. My pinky finger is very hard to control, but GH3 helps exercise it a bit more without needing some perfect accuracy to nail the right string with it.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Dec 2007 00:10
Quote: "Through the Fire etc are harder to learn in Expert mode than Twinkle Twinkle! "


That is true, Jesus Christ it through me, I though 'yeah I can play most of it in easy mode, lets see extreme mode,' nope.

There, you'd need a lot of skill, more skill than play twinkle twinkle. But they are different skills, not entirely different, probably like Piano and Cello different. On a piano you can press the buttons, but easy songs on a Cello certainly don't match certain ones on a piano in skill. Equally the buttons you press on a guitar hero controller in the game with a hard song will require more skill...of course one big difference is, you're not making the music, you're playing a game, though I don't doubt a skilled Guitar Hero player is certainly more skilled than I am at guitar, but I'd probably play guitar better than he does (assuming that he doesn't play it already)

If you can get to the end of Dragonforce on expert mode against the crowd, (it took me 5 seconds to get booed) you deserve a handshake. You'd be one skilled gamer, though you'd probably wouldn't have much of a life by playing guitar hero that often.

mjoðr er lekker
Krilik
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Posted: 30th Dec 2007 05:30
Quote: "Do you play games Krillik? If so, why not just spend your time learning a new programming language or something else useful rather than wasting your time having fun?"


Guitar Hero on Hard and Expert is not fun. And not all games are a waste of time. In fact, there are some cases in which I would argue that some people should go out of their way to play certain games.
ico
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Posted: 30th Dec 2007 05:57 Edited at: 30th Dec 2007 05:58
Do you think Sony and Microsoft are going to continue making consoles with the same controllers and just better graphics? To me, Sony and Microsoft are living in the past, releasing the same games over and over. Nintendo is going forward with new innovations of game play and interactivity. To me, fun is the art, not just graphics, even though they might be pretty to look at.

EDIT: oops, didn't realize this topic had 5 pages to it.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th Dec 2007 06:08
Quote: "Guitar Hero on Hard and Expert is not fun. And not all games are a waste of time. In fact, there are some cases in which I would argue that some people should go out of their way to play certain games."


Really? Why am I dieing to get my skills up in medium to move onto hard? It's so fun...

tha_rami
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Posted: 30th Dec 2007 06:20 Edited at: 30th Dec 2007 06:34
You're saying driving games are not like driving while I can assure you that with a wheel and pedals some driving games are definitely quite realistic - even closer to truth than Guitar Hero is to a real guitar. And they're so hard they're not fun anymore. Should we all stop playing such racing games and go invest time in learning to drive in real life instead?


Totally like a real guitar.

Maybe, instead, real guitarists should start learning Guitar Hero. Should be a piece of cake, and they can get top scores with their very relevant experience of holding a similarly shaped object.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
Accoun
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Posted: 30th Dec 2007 18:47
Quote: "Maybe, instead, real guitarists should start learning Guitar Hero. Should be a piece of cake, and they can get top scores with their very relevant experience of holding a similarly shaped object."

Quote: "Herman Li from dragon force playing guitar hero and he was crap"

He said he was playing ~15 years and he was beaten by good GH players...

Make games, not war.

Jeku
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Posted: 31st Dec 2007 05:51
@Seppuku - Watch the language, it's offensive to say that cuss, and I see you do that all over this forum. I've already told you not to before.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 31st Dec 2007 14:08
What 'Jesus Christ'? Yeah sure, though I don't normally mean it in an offensive way, but I see your point.

mjoðr er lekker
Krilik
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Posted: 1st Jan 2008 02:01
Quote: "Really? Why am I dieing to get my skills up in medium to move onto hard? It's so fun..."


Because you're obsessed with it... Hence my original question. "Why are people obsessed with Guitar Hero?" As a rhythm game its pretty much like every other rhythm game. The only thing it offers that other games don't (aside from Rock Band) is the controller.

Saying its fun because you have to play the game over and over again to learn leads me to assume someone like you would have the motivation to just learn how to play a real guitar instead. Why you don't, or think its "better" to play Guitar Hero is beyond me. And saying its more "fun", but also saying you need to practice, makes me ask the same question: "Why not just play a real guitar?"

Quote: "You're saying driving games are not like driving while I can assure you that with a wheel and pedals some driving games are definitely quite realistic - even closer to truth than Guitar Hero is to a real guitar. And they're so hard they're not fun anymore. Should we all stop playing such racing games and go invest time in learning to drive in real life instead?"


No, they're not. For one, you can die from driving a car, or can kill someone else. Two, even with the best wheel and pedal set they still do not offer simulated car motion. Doing a 180 on a video game is nothing like doing a 180 in a real car. Three, as far as I know there is no such thing as a clutch controller, the only real life ability games offer is driving automatic cars. Manual transmissions in video games are completely fake. And if you were to race a real car, it will most undoubtly be a manual transmission. Besides that, there is an age limit to who is allowed to actually operate vehicles. So no, I would not advise people who like racing games to just go out and start racing real cars, as quickly as I would tell someone who likes Guitar Hero to learn how to play a real guitar.

But you're right, the Guitar Hero controller is not much like a real guitar, but the concept is there in its simplest form. 1 string, 5 frets. If you can press down one of those buttons you can press down any string on any fret on a real guitar. If you "strum" the string pickup, or whatever they want to call it, you can strum any string on a real guitar. The point was, if you can hold a Guitar Hero controller, you can use a real guitar.
Agent Dink
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Posted: 1st Jan 2008 02:10
Quote: "Saying its fun because you have to play the game over and over again to learn leads me to assume someone like you would have the motivation to just learn how to play a real guitar instead. Why you don't, or think its "better" to play Guitar Hero is beyond me. And saying its more "fun", but also saying you need to practice, makes me ask the same question: "Why not just play a real guitar?""


For one thing, I'm not obsessed with it, and number two, I do play real guitar... Why can't GH be fun? It's like playing tetris or any other game where you try to get a higher score than last time. It's about setting goals and improving your skills, and reaction times. It's just fun! What is wrong with a FUN game? Everyone complains about the fun games. Isn't that what games are about? Isn't it?

Driving games are fun, even though it's similar to real driving. Why shouldn't it be? It's a way to extract yourself from the real world and experience something new in a new world.

Krilik
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Posted: 1st Jan 2008 02:18
Quote: "For one thing, I'm not obsessed with it, and number two, I do play real guitar... Why can't GH be fun? It's like playing tetris or any other game where you try to get a higher score than last time. It's about setting goals and improving your skills, and reaction times. It's just fun! What is wrong with a FUN game? Everyone complains about the fun games. Isn't that what games are about? Isn't it? "


I understand the fun part of it. My problem with it, is why is it so popular? As a rhythm game its nothing special. Unless you just prefer the music. I like playing rhythm reaction based games. But not to pretend like I'm playing the guitar. Which is what I'm assuming most people think Guitar Hero is fun for. There are far better reaction based rhythm games IMO. Guitar Hero is vastly overrated, and I still don't understand people's obsession with it, in general.
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 1st Jan 2008 13:08
Why are iPods popular? They're expensive, flimsy and often lack functionality cheaper models from other companies have. (ie. a screen in the case of the Shuffle) £55 for a 1gb Shuffle or £45 for a 4gb SMALLER MP3 player with a mono backlit display?

People are stupid, that's why. People buy for brand rather than what they're getting. Idiots.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Oraculaca
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Posted: 1st Jan 2008 14:35
Got GH3 just before the holidays. My wife and I both love playing it.
It might be silly but so is sitting playing any video game. Its dumb and at the same time fun just a what a good game should be imo.
btw Ive also played guitar for about 15 years now.

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