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Geek Culture / playstation 4?

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 11:27
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Quote: "If you please turn your attention to the attached image of the special edition bonus case that was given away with Wind Waker on launch. "


Not sure if they included it with windwalker for some reason, but it was included with the gamecube when I bought mine, that disk was 75% of the reason I bought it.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
My RPG WIP, check it out
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Dazzag
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 12:51
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Quote: "They gave away a demo of Wind Waker with Wind Waker?"
That isn't the Wind Waker box. It's the Legends of Zelda box that came with a Wind Waker demo. Wouldn't surprise me if the collectors edition of Wind Waker included the Legends of Zelda box and they didn't bother taking the demo off. Personally I have the normal Wind Waker, but Legends of Zelda collectors edition came with Mario Kart, which was nice

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Zappo
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 14:39
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Quote: "He doesn't actually say that it is only capable on the Playstation 3 than the Xbox 360. Something you might not be aware of is that while the Playstation 3 itself has been on the market for 12months now, the DevKit has been available for the past 2.5years"

I never said it was only capable on the PS3 either, but its certainly been written to take advantage of its power. The term 'port' should probably be pinned down really as most people seem to thing it means copying everything over and tweaking it to make it work. Thats more like 'emulation' than 'porting'. In this case I think it is more like the engine was written (or rewritten) for UT3 on the PS3. Does that sound farer?
With regards to the DevKit being available for much longer than the console, then that would obviously have to be the case in order to have titles ready for launch. The difference here is that I am talking about the Sony library (not the DevKit as you mentioned). Without Sonys library it would take much longer and be a hell of a lot more difficult to write stuff to make full use of the hardware as lots would need to be written from scratch.
Quote: "Heavenly Sword was just horrible for lag"

It should probably be made clear that you mean 'lag' as in framerate, rather than 'lag' as in network delays (seeing as it doesn't have network play). I haven't noticed any framerate problems while playing. I know an early version released for testing and demoing had stuttering problems but they fixed that for the retail version and gave it a huge performance boost.
Quote: "So they've had familiar technology (given most of the guts of the PS3 is basically identical to program for as a Linux PC, with the exception of the Cell processor which is still a PowerPC 64bit like the 360 with multiple VMX units)"

I think you are over simplifying there. The cell is backwards compatible with the PowerPC (making simple porting and Linux easy to get working) but it is a whole new beast if you want to really take advantage of it. This is why 'quick ports' were done quite fast to get software out for it, but its taken longer to see games which are really using the new hardware.
From what you say, it sounds like MS screwed up big time with the alpha DevKits for the 360, but you also need to remember that the CPU it has now is much closer to a traditional PC and the DirectX SDK has been around a long time. This would make it quicker for the developers to get their heads round it intially.
Quote: "Doesn't have that emulator out of the box, and if it is as piss-poor as the one on the 60GB model."

Mmmm, I think it does. The initial installed one may have been 'clunky' but there have been several free updates since then to improve game compatibility. They have also stated that even though PS2 compatibility has been removed from the newer model they will still keep releasing updates for it for the 60GB+ models (like yours and mine).
I don't have Metal Gear Solid 3 so I can't comment on that, but everything else I have tried (I am a big fan of Burnout Revenge) has worked fine and certainly has nothing noticeably missing from the visuals. All I can say is to make sure you have the newest firmware installed for the best results (currently v2.00). I recommend downloading it on your PC and sticking it on a memory stick or USB hard disk for speed.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
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Krilik
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 20:21
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Quote: "Is it me or are the PS3 pushers a bit too whiny? Like I said, I've got all three current systems, but I'm getting a whiny vibe from most of the PS3 supporters "


Maybe because its the only console that recieves harsh criticism, for basically nothing?

Was I right, or not?
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Samoz83
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 20:58 Edited at: 13th Nov 2007 23:19
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my 60gb plays all my games apart from the getaway 2 which was not that great anyway and it does have the emu out of the box

www.firelightstudio.co.uk
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Jeku
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 21:29
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Quote: "harsh criticism, for basically nothing?

Was I right, or not?"


I don't know about others, but so far all of my complaints about the PS3 have been valid. Only an idiot would make something up, so if anyone is saying anything false then he can't be trusted. Obviously you can't disregard all of the PS3 complaints because some of the 360 and Ninty fanboys are saying stupid things, now can you?

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Krilik
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 21:48
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Quote: "I don't know about others, but so far all of my complaints about the PS3 have been valid. Only an idiot would make something up, so if anyone is saying anything false then he can't be trusted. Obviously you can't disregard all of the PS3 complaints because some of the 360 and Ninty fanboys are saying stupid things, now can you?"


I've disregarded most of them because they're either hypocrtical, absurd, or derived from arbitrary expectations. That still doesn't answer my question. The PS3 has the most criticism based on basically nothing, and when it comes down to discussing consoles the complaints are only one sides, yet exist throughout the market. It makes no sense.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 01:10
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Quote: "I've disregarded most of them because they're either hypocrtical, absurd, or derived from arbitrary expectations. That still doesn't answer my question. The PS3 has the most criticism based on basically nothing, and when it comes down to discussing consoles the complaints are only one sides, yet exist throughout the market. It makes no sense."


Hypocritical? You mean like, they're doing exactly the thing Sony fanboys have been doing with the XBOX and GC last round? I think most expectations are not arbitrary after seeing pre-rendergate in the E3 2005.

The PS3 has points that are valid criticism: There is a lack of games at launch, blu-ray is expensive (and appears not to make it) and the console is expensive? I think those are quite valid points.


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Raven
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 01:33
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Quote: "They gave away a demo of Wind Waker with Wind Waker?

Good one."


That bonus disc was given away with Mario Kart and Wind Waker Special Edition. Wind Waker itself came with Master Quest, although it's weird as the version on the bonus disc and the one on that "anthology" disc were different.. only slightly mind.

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 02:44
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@Krilik: Here's a valid PS3 concern:

Why are many of the cross-platform titles lacking on the PS3 version? The newest offender is Assassin's Creed, in which the PS3 visuals lack compared to the 360 version, according to the reviews I've read. For a system that's supposed to be "superior", this is troubling.

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Krilik
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 07:56 Edited at: 14th Nov 2007 07:58
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Quote: "Hypocritical? You mean like, they're doing exactly the thing Sony fanboys have been doing with the XBOX and GC last round? I think most expectations are not arbitrary after seeing pre-rendergate in the E3 2005.

The PS3 has points that are valid criticism: There is a lack of games at launch, blu-ray is expensive (and appears not to make it) and the console is expensive? I think those are quite valid points."


Hypocrisy - a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

Lack of games at launch - Hypocritical: both the Wii and 360 fall into this category. The Wii the most out of all the consoles. And in fact is still really suffering from it, even though SMG is just around the corner.

Blu-ray expensive / consoles expensive : Both the same argument : Arbitrary & Hypocritical: People act like their purchase is only an immediate cost/benefit situation. If the console lasted 4 years (which it won't) then paying $600 would be a valid criticism. Paying for an Xbox in 2001 for $300 and then $300 or $400 for a 360 in 2005 (excluding the cost you had to repair it for) is the SAME thing as buying a PS3. In fact, depending on your purchase date of a PSone, and/or PS2 sticking with the Playstation brand throughout its lifetime is actually a better deal. Especially if you just bought a PS3 recently, and a PS2 in the past couple of years. That is excluding the cost of video games, which have been significantly cheaper to purchase on the PS2 and PSone compared to its competition during their time. Price point is moot, and means absolutely nothing to me without either experience or time spent included into the equation.

Blu-ray not making it: Arbitrary & Absurd: If Blu-ray is not the dominant HD format, it won't matter... The most unoriginal argument from people about the PS3 is that they want it to play games. Then why do you care if it doesn't play HD movies anymore? In fact, DON'T BUY ANY BLU-RAY MOVIES, NOR BUY A PS3 AS AN HD PLAYER IF YOU ARE WORRIED. Blu-ray is GOING to be used for Sony's game format regardless, so it WON'T be going unused. The absurd thing this argument has lead to is the increase in price of games developed on Blu-ray as opposed to DVD. I've encountered people who swore that a PS3 game was going to cost $10 or $20 more than a 360 because Blu-ray was too expensive to produce. Which has become notably false, and not only that but quite the opposite. If anything Xbox 360 games are already overpriced relative to what format they're on. In fact, when Oblivion was new it costed you $50 on the PC DVD, and $60 on the 360. I'm sure its the same for all cross-platform console/PC games. At least the PS3 has a "reason" for the higher price right?

Quote: "@Krilik: Here's a valid PS3 concern:

Why are many of the cross-platform titles lacking on the PS3 version? The newest offender is Assassin's Creed, in which the PS3 visuals lack compared to the 360 version, according to the reviews I've read. For a system that's supposed to be "superior", this is troubling."


Why? Because if you want to develope a "next-gen" game your market choice right now is the Xbox 360. Companies aren't going to be stupid enough to commit resources to a smaller market. You choose any other direction and you lose money. This is also another arbitrary expectation. People are expecting anything on the PS3 to be visually better than the 360, regardless of time or effort spent making the game, or researching its hardware. Even people who say they don't "believe it" still expect the PS3 to live up to that expectation.

Its also absurd because the people buying PS3s aren't buying them for cross-platform games because they think its going to be better on the PS3. They're buying it for the library of games as a whole. Which includes games to be unreleased. The only people who are going to be presuaded by the "downgrade" of cross-platform games are going to be the people who had no favoring interest in either console to begin with.
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 10:07
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Quote: "People are expecting anything on the PS3 to be visually better than the 360, regardless of time or effort spent making the game, or researching its hardware. "


That one made me laugh out loud. Well then, if then I'll stop expecting it when sony stops flaunting their spec sheets around, there's a good marketing strat, lets tell them whats in it even though half of the customers could care less.

Valid points, okay let me break them down.

Xbox360-
3 Rings of Doom
Overheat
Disc Destruction

Wii-Lack of first party games

PS3-Failing Video Format
Price
Lack of cross platform games
Lack of exclusive games
Lack of games period


So you see, I"m not biased to ninty, though I love their games to death and are the only ones I'll beat and say "i"m doing that again!"

Dr. Mannete- OMG It's Zombie's voice, it's so Suave!

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Zappo
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 11:28 Edited at: 14th Nov 2007 11:39
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BluRay failing?! Now THAT made me laugh . This is exactly the type of unfounded lie I was talking about in my previous postings that winds people up who have actually looked at the figures. As I have pointed out several times, BluRay is outselling HD-DVD by almost 2 to 1. At the start of the year it was outselling HD-DVD by 2 to 1. Thats twice as many BluRay disks sold as HD-DVD ones since January. Saying otherwise over and over again does not make it true. Can it be any clearer? Can we stop that ridiculous repeated bullplop now?
Also, Zombie 20, take a look at the current prices for PS3's and 360s. I think your price argument has also been disproved now in my previous posts. I really can't be bothered to repeat it again.

From the reviews I have seen (GamerTV for one), Assassins Creed is actually supposed to be better on the PS3 . I guess its down to who is making the review and what their current favourite system is. It was developed first on the PS3 so that may hold some benefits, but I expect there will be arguments from both sides (although not from me as I can't be bothered ). I expect the gameplay, story, player actions and controls to be identical on both systems.
If there is anyone who hasn't seen it yet, I recommend looking at the GameSpot video review as it shows some of the gorgeous visuals and gameplay.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
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Raven
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 13:38
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Sony CEO Wishes for Time Travel to Solve HighDef Format War

Just to add a bit to this btw
The latest Sales figures show that BluRay (80,000/month) currently has a 2:1 sales lead over HD-DVD (50,000/month) however something to note is that 6months ago this was different as BluRay (110,000/month) was beating HD-DVD (35,000/month) almost 3:1.

So ya know, sure BluRay is shifting more units currently; but interestingly those sales figures have dropped off since February and only increased to surpass HD-DVD when the PS3 was launched.

However the sharp decrease, (which I don't know the figures for this month as I couldn't find them) had the Sony CEO saying what he did in the link above.

What's more is currently there are roughly 12million HD-DVD Players purchased (only 3million of them are the Xbox 360 HD-DVD Player which btw works with Windows via USB, and doesn't require a DVD-Codec in Vista), now we compare this to the 7million BluRay players currently on the market (6million of them are Playstation 3's)

So given this, not only are there more HD-DVD Players on the market but also the sales of HD-DVD have been steadily increaseing world-wide.

Further to the point, here in the UK BluRay has been seeing some extremely poor sales since release. Unlike our American cousins, apartenly we prefer anything that can do the job just as good for cheaper.

If you check out the facts between the formats, there are many aspects (like picture-in-picture for interactive comentry, HDi standardised interaction format, manditory compliance to ALL major formats) that HD-DVD has over BluRay; with BluRay only really being able to boast size.

Which last week Toshiba released their Triple-Layer 51GB format for use, which is compatible with current players. Although Sony have created a 100GB Quad-Layer version of their format, it is only compatible with their new writer and Playstation 3.

Also while they can produce these larger discs, the costs are still slightly more than HD-DVD. What Sony aren't willing to do which HD-DVD companies are is take a loss on the format, given they're already taking one on the PS3 itself.

And yes, more space on BluRay with it built-in (25-100GB) compared to the 4-18GB normal DVDs support is great. That said games are getting more and more complex with much shorter gameplay time.

The ONLY title I've seen use BluRay yet for actually holding game data is Lair. Although you can say "well all of the PS3 games are using BluRay", this just isn't true.

Stranglehold (released later this month) only uses it for an attached film. Most of the games currently available use bog-standard DL DVD just like the PS2.

Quote: "Also, Zombie 20, take a look at the current prices for PS3's and 360s. I think your price argument has also been disproved now in my previous posts. I really can't be bothered to repeat it again."


Xbox 360:
Arcade - £200 (Includes: 1 Wireless Controller, 256MB Memory Unit, Xbox LIVE Silver Membership, 1 Retail game and 5 Arcade games; UNO, Pac-Man Championship Edition, Feeding Frenzy, Luxor 2 and Boom Boom Rocket.)
Premium - £250 (Includes: 1 Wireless Controller, Headset, 20GB HDD, Xbox LIVE Silver Membership and usually a game
Elite - £300 (Includes: 1 Wireless Controller, Headset, 120GB HDD, Xbox LIVE Silver Membership and usually a game

Add £10 to any bundle for another full-title.
HD-DVD Drive is still £100, and additional 20GB HDD are £70

Games are £30-40 Retail

Playstation 3 60GB - £350 (Includes: 1 SIXAXIS Controller, 60GB HDD, PSN Account Key, PS2 Game Support, 2 Retail Games; One is always Motorstorm, normally second is Resistance)
Playstation 3 40GB - £300 (Includes: 1 SIXAXIS Controller, 40GB HDD, PSN Account Key, 1 Retail Game

The game bundles are only for Winter, as the 40GB model is normal price; the 60GB model is actually normally £415.

Games are £40-50 Retail
To me while the price of the games is acceptable, to me given the BluRay is said to be the most expensive component; rather than taking out PS2 compatibility and shrinking it by about an inch, why the hell not take out BluRay?

Another big issue I have is with the memory issues. While sure you can link up to 7 players at once (although only 4 are indicated on the controllers mind) on a single machine, if I want to take my save games to someone elses house.. I have a fiddly little SDFlash to do it with, or whatever the hell they're called.

Which to a degree is alright with me as I have a PSP as well, but what is irritating is I can't take my PSN account over to someone elses. I can sign in via the net if they have it mind, then again I guess it doesn't matter as much cause there aren't achie- :cough: I mean Tropheys yet. So it's only the save games that matter.. still just doesn't seem right with such a fiddly easily broken memory unit.

I've snapped one before by accidentally sitting on one, and I'm not exactly a heavy bloke. The 360 is just far more robust in terms of what you can physically do to it before it buggers up due to your own influence.

As for the "repair charges", they're free.. always have been and Microsoft are dedicated to keeping them so while the warrenty lasts. In-fact on top of them being free, they tend to send out free gear after a couple of time (plus a 1month free live gold account). I've yet to experience the three rings myself, however mine used to have a bad problem with if it was put on it's end doing something to discs like what the PS2 used to do.

What's annoying is this damage is considered "Your fault" by the game software retailers. Still they've solved that with the new dvd-roms and the three-rings are also something slowly phaseing out as more people get the new falcon chipset machines.

I seriously doubt IBMs ability to successfully mass-produce anything. Nintendo have Panasonic mass-producing their stuff, have done since GameCube. After Apple moved to Intel for their chips, would've thought Microsoft would've learnt, but no. Ho hum nevermind.

Still you want to compare the last gen to this in terms of price.
Cause I got my first Xbox for £250, and my second for £99 (yes retail).

I got my first PS2 for £500, and my second for £250, and my Slimline for £120.

I got my first GameCube for £150... I still have it. Didn't drop reading disks, didn't catch fire, still runs perfectly fine.

So if you want to sit there and claim price difference, I've actually spent FAR FAR more on Sony over the years than Microsoft.
If you want to get into the previous gen to that, I had the Greystation, Yarozee and PSOne. So yeah Sony really have done well off of me; and I bloody hate them.

So god know what they make off of you little worshippers.

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Chris K
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 15:50
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Quote: "BluRay is outselling HD-DVD by almost 2 to 1"


That means HD-DVD is catching up right?

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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tha_rami
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 17:28
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Those reactions made me laugh. They call that ignorance.

Blu-Ray is failing. Every non-biased source I can find, including game magazines, movie magazines and tech magazine says that Blu-Ray is coming down on itself. HD-DVD is catching up rapidly, producers and the like are dropping Blu-Ray because of cost-efficiency.

Listen carefully, fanboys: It APPEARS Blu-Ray is failing. No denial please.


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Krilik
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 19:07
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Quote: "That one made me laugh out loud. Well then, if then I'll stop expecting it when sony stops flaunting their spec sheets around, there's a good marketing strat, lets tell them whats in it even though half of the customers could care less. "


Do you realize how much BS that is? It seems like the only people who care what Sony said, are the people who don't believe it, but pretend to just to be angry. Like they're false expectations weren't met. If you didn't believe it, then it doesn't matter. So don't act like it does. And even if it were true, the belief that a game being on the PS3 will automatically make it better is ridiculous. As I stated before, developers are STILL responsible for games being better or worse on consoles before the console is.

Quote: "And yes, more space on BluRay with it built-in (25-100GB) compared to the 4-18GB normal DVDs support is great. That said games are getting more and more complex with much shorter gameplay time."


No, they're not. Ratchet and Clank: Tools of Destruction takes about the same time to beat as its prequels. Resistance takes about 10 hours to finish, which is about the average length of a FPSer. Then games also have online which I've spent literally days logged into. Taking a few select games and calling it a trend is ridiculous.

Quote: "The ONLY title I've seen use BluRay yet for actually holding game data is Lair. Although you can say "well all of the PS3 games are using BluRay", this just isn't true."


No they're using Blu-ray because they have to. And again you've decided to select a few games and call it a trend. The majority of PS2 games during its first year used regular ole CDs too. In fact, I have quite a few PS2 games on CDs. Now you couldn't find a recently released PS2 game on CD. So I guess your "point" is we should wait a few years or what?

Quote: "To me while the price of the games is acceptable, to me given the BluRay is said to be the most expensive component; rather than taking out PS2 compatibility and shrinking it by about an inch, why the hell not take out BluRay?"


Because games are already on that format. It will be beneficial to the market later. If developers chose to develope for the PS3 and wanted to take advantage of the PS3s with Blu-ray then they lose out on a market. If said people with PS3s without Blu-ray wanted to play a game that was released on Blu-ray they would have to purchase another PS3. Blu-ray was already introduced, its better just to cope with it and move on. In fact, if you don't feel like the price is right, wait, getting one right now would be better deal than having purchased an Xbox 360 on launch. Get one in two years when Blu-ray is being used more for games. Get one five years from now when you can pick it up for under $200... Or don't get one at all.

Quote: "Another big issue I have is with the memory issues. While sure you can link up to 7 players at once (although only 4 are indicated on the controllers mind) on a single machine, if I want to take my save games to someone elses house.. I have a fiddly little SDFlash to do it with, or whatever the hell they're called."


So? The Wii suffers from the same problem. And yes it is quite annoying. However, I already own quite a few memory sticks and flash cards so its not that big of a deal. I would rather use those than have to purchase memory cards that can ONLY be used for that console. Its nice being able to use a memory stick for my PSP, PS3, and PC AND use a SD card with my Wii, PS3, and PC from memory storage I already own. I'm glad console manufacturers are realizing gamers also use other standard hardware too.

By the way, the bold statement is false. There are only 4 LEDs yes, but they light up multiple LEDs if there are more than 4 controllers connected to the console.

Quote: "As for the "repair charges", they're free.. always have been and Microsoft are dedicated to keeping them so while the warrenty lasts. In-fact on top of them being free, they tend to send out free gear after a couple of time (plus a 1month free live gold account). I've yet to experience the three rings myself, however mine used to have a bad problem with if it was put on it's end doing something to discs like what the PS2 used to do."


The warranty didn't last long enough for the 360s that they knew were going to break, and before they were forced to extend the warranty. People HAD to pay for it at one time.

Quote: "So if you want to sit there and claim price difference, I've actually spent FAR FAR more on Sony over the years than Microsoft.
If you want to get into the previous gen to that, I had the Greystation, Yarozee and PSOne. So yeah Sony really have done well off of me; and I bloody hate them."


Ahem..

Quote: "In fact, depending on your purchase date of a PSone, and/or PS2 sticking with the Playstation brand throughout its lifetime is actually a better deal. Especially if you just bought a PS3 recently, and a PS2 in the past couple of years."


I'm already well aware of the PS2s "fault" (even though its actually nothing to do with hardware failure), as well as the PSone, which is why I explicitly stated what I did. If you were going to go out and purchase a console today, buying a 40GB PS3 with a Slimline PS2 is the best value for money. Or if you had just bought a PS2 Slimline within the past year, and wanted to purchase a console today, sticking with Playstation is a better deal. The second closest thing to that is just buying a Wii for the Gamecube's library, the VC (which is a waste of time and money) and the few weeks of cheap thrills with something that gets old quite fast. The only reason why I don't think the Wii is worth more value is because 1) It might be hard to get a hold of a Gamecube controller to play Gamecube games if you don't already own one. 2) If you don't already own Gamecube games, they also might be hard to find. 3) Gamecube games are still expensive... Even used. Costing almost, if not more, than some brand new Wii games. And 4) In order to get the full value out of the Wii, you really need to buy 3 more Wiimotes and Nunchucks. Which will cost you about as much as a PS3 now.

BTW, at what point did you take personal responsibility for you own distress with Sony? You do realize you had a choice to re-purchase consoles that broke right?
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 19:11
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I can't see anything wrong with DVD. The colour's fine. The motion is fine. The compression is only slightly noticeable if you are silly enough to pay the extra £10 for the special edition with 5 hours of extra features you will never watch, thereby reducing overall quality. The camera's usually far enough out of focus for the increase in definition on newer formats to be barely noticeable even up close.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Zappo
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 03:03 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 03:18
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Quote: "Blu-Ray is failing. Every non-biased source I can find, including game magazines, movie magazines and tech magazine says that Blu-Ray is coming down on itself. HD-DVD is catching up rapidly, producers and the like are dropping Blu-Ray because of cost-efficiency."

Rather than reading peoples opinions and predictions (which will be biased), read the actual disk sales figures. They don't lie.
Producers are not dropping BluRay. One distributor (Paramount) who was producing both BluRay and HD-DVD has decided to move to HD-DVD only right now. This puts the two formats pretty much even - that is agreed by both sides. The only other distributor who produces disks for both formats (Warner) has stopped development of their hybrid disk and is rumoured to be moving towards BluRay only. This move isn't confirmed yet so we shall wait and see. In the mean time repeating your biased opinion over and over does not make it a fact. 'No denial please'!

Krilik has answered most of Raven's points so I won't bother myself, except to say that you CAN copy saved games onto any media you plug in. This includes USB Flash disks or if they are too 'fiddly' you can plug in a USB hard drive if you like. That way you can copy off your MP3s, videos, photos and downloaded trailers to take to your friends too. It just plain works. I have just tried it myself to make sure and you can copy saved games to and from them just fine. Do you actually own a PS3 Raven because you seem to be getting lots of pretty basic functionality wrong?

One thing MS must have done (inadvertently it would seem) is to have almost killed the 360 console second hand market due to the overheating problem. Anyone who buys a second hand 360 at the moment is taking a big risk and I can only assume is unaware of the problems. If it wasn't such a horrific accident it would have been clever marketing to force people to buy only new ones.

Your pricing still isn't complete. If you shop around (like here for a quick Googled example) you can get the PS3 60GB model for £300 but lets stick with the RRP of £350. The 360 Arcade which comes without a hard drive is pretty useless if you're going to compare it so that should be ruled out from the start. You get an extra game with the 60GB PS3 (Motorstorm is excellent so you can't complain about that but you can get others bundled instead) RRP is about £40 now. There are also no ongoing online costs, which on the 360 is about £40 a year after the first year. How many years is the expected life of the 360? I am sure you can see its not actually such a bad deal any more. This is without adding on a 360 wireless adapter (RRP £60) or HD-DVD drive (RRP £115) to make it really comparible.

As for dropping BluRay from the PS3, that would cut its life span significantly. Some people thought it was overkill when the PS2 came out with a DVD drive built-in. There are already two games I know of (in one of my previous posts) which have had to cut down content on the 360 because of DVD space limitations - even with compression. I expect there are more but I haven't bothered looking. This problem will only get bigger which will force 360 developers to cut down their content, or force 360 users to buy a HD-DVD drive or MS will release a new console with HD storage and expect everyone to upgrade. Either way 360 users will get a raw deal. They should have included an internal HD-DVD drive in the Elite model but then it would have been more expensive than the PS3 - and they can't have that, can they? It would upset all the fans clinging to the argument over the PS3s price

EDIT:
Quote: "I can't see anything wrong with DVD"
There isn't really anything wrong with it for movies, but if you watch a HD movie on a HD TV you can really see the difference. For pure entertainment purposes, there isn't really anything wrong with watching a movie on VHS. It all comes down to progress and being able to see more detail and in the end become more immersed because you aren't drawn to floors (or indeed ceilings) in the technology. Data storage is another matter and I fear DVD is nearing the end of its life.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
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tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 04:40 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 04:51
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Quote: "Rather than reading peoples opinions and predictions (which will be biased), read the actual disk sales figures. They don't lie.
Producers are not dropping BluRay. One distributor (Paramount) who was producing both BluRay and HD-DVD has decided to move to HD-DVD only right now. This puts the two formats pretty much even - that is agreed by both sides. The only other distributor who produces disks for both formats (Warner) has stopped development of their hybrid disk and is rumoured to be moving towards BluRay only. This move isn't confirmed yet so we shall wait and see. In the mean time repeating your biased opinion over and over does not make it a fact. 'No denial please'!"

No denial indeed. Repeating your biased opinion over and over again won't make it a fact and I think this is perfectly applicable for you.

Can someone please tell me why every source states that Blu Ray started out huge (sources from 17 - 30 april 2007) but then started to drop (starting end of august) and is still dropping (down from 3:1 to 2:1 now). Noone is expecting this drop to end and thus they are falling closer and closer; Dreamworks and Paramount have switched to HD DVD exclusively - which will surely not help Bluray. Ofcourse, they have enough companies left to back them up - but if those two leave there must be a good reason to do so.

I'm not biased in this case. I'm just a guy, reading the daily gaming and media news, the figures and discussions. I own neither of both and do not plan on doing so. I own a XBOX360 (bought it at launch with my little brother to play Halo), but I'd love to own a PS3 as well and love to go play at a friend of mine who owns one of those pretty things - I can't wait to see Uncharted play on it. The Wii is a lovely piece of hardware too and honestly, I can't say I prefer any one over another.

Personally, in the end, I think HD DVD will win because the idea of DVD just is better known among normal. If I'd put a HD DVD or Bluray in front of my dad, I know what he'd pick: HD DVD, cause DVD's work.

To be a bit harsh: You seem to be pretty biased towards the Sony camp, and thus Blu-ray though. Since all my sources, sources that've always been accurate (I'd send them to you if they weren't Dutch magazines and websites), claim that Blu-ray is falling rapidly, I believe them over someone in a forum who has clearly shown himself to be a fanboy.


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Keo C
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 05:19 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 05:20
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BTW, This is the new PS4 controller.




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tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 05:48
Link

I want it. Just a bit confused that the link to the image is:
http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/ps3controller.jpg

It looks so real tho'. Must've been a typo.


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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 10:21 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 10:22
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Quote: "People HAD to pay for it at one time. "


And they got their money back.

Also, the Blu-Ray is winning? What's this all about then? Just wondering. Or are there some "anti-Sony" conspiracies at play here?

Don't worry, I'm sure Sony's format will win in the end--- they always do. *cough* Betamax *cough* Minidisc *cough* UMD

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Zappo
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 11:22
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Quote: "Repeating your biased opinion over and over again won't make it a fact and I think this is perfectly applicable for you."

But my comments are based on the actual figures. How is that biased? If more apples are sold than oranges, and I say 'apples are outselling oranges' - how does that make my comment biased?
Quote: "Can someone please tell me why every source states that Blu Ray started out huge (sources from 17 - 30 april 2007) but then started to drop (starting end of august) and is still dropping (down from 3:1 to 2:1 now)."

Actually, this year I believe it started at 2:1 then went up to 3:1 and is now down to just under 2:1. So even though its selling double the amount of HD-DVD disks you still don't seem to understand that this means it is selling more. I can't help you then.
Quote: "Dreamworks and Paramount have switched to HD DVD exclusively - which will surely not help Bluray. Ofcourse, they have enough companies left to back them up - but if those two leave there must be a good reason to do so."

Like I have said before, this is one move (Paramount distribute for Dreamworks and its Paramount who have moved), and yes it doesn't help BluRay but it hasn't put them behind either. Perhaps that ONE company was offered HD-DVDs at a loss if they agreed to drop BluRay. That wouldn't be uncommon in this industry. Nobody knows for sure yet but them.
Quote: "Personally, in the end, I think HD DVD will win because the idea of DVD just is better known among normal."

See, now that is a much more rational comment than "Blu-Ray is failing". You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. You could be right but at the moment, the figures say BluRay disks are selling a lot more so at present it is not failing or falling behind.
The figures quoted earlier for HD hardware was wrong too. On movie players alone, there are more HD-DVD players around (most likely due to them being cheaper) BUT if you take into consideration the PS3 consoles and BluRay drives in PCs then BluRay owns a much bigger chunk of the hardware market.
Oh, and I am not a Sony fan. I am a PS3 fan now though. Since I bought one I have been very impressed with its growing features.
Quote: "Also, the Blu-Ray is winning?"

Who said that? Not I. BluRay disks have been outselling HD-DVD disks but the move by Paramount has put the two formats even as far as future releases goes, i.e. 'stalemate'. For now anyway.


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Zombie 20
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 12:45 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 12:46
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The sony corp should have injected more memory so their superior machine could even handle half its capabilities. Besides, why would you want graphics so good they could jump at you? Unless I'm playing madden and taping it so I can watch it during baseball..I could care less that that guy on the screen may as well be sitting next to me...if it ain't fun I ain't playing it and ps3 is lacking in that section for me.

Skate...can get it cheaper on the 360

LittleBigWorld-Meh..I've got Mysims and Animal Crossing

Heavanly Sword-Hack and slash hack and slash hack and slash+no development=bored as hell

Resistance:Fall of Man- Just one more shooter that I can easily take down..whoopity doo.

Motorcycle game *don't remember the name* yawn...physics are cool though and the graphics are nice but thats it.

Lair-Spits out the pepsi he's drinking..I hate dragons anyway.

Ratchet and Clank-This system's only hope for pure entertainment.

Oh yea..about zero exclusives..sony aint doing so hot this round..thinking they are learning their lesson for trying to be smartasses in this console war and forgot their customers along the way.

Of course I'm not anti-sony..just anti-bs...if ms or nin tried delivering this garbage I'd drop them in a heartbeat..not saying I'm not loyal but man I'd wonder if someone in those offices died.

Dr. Mannete- OMG It's Zombie's voice, it's so Suave!

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tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 13:03 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 13:03
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Quote: "Like I have said before, this is one move (Paramount distribute for Dreamworks and its Paramount who have moved), and yes it doesn't help BluRay but it hasn't put them behind either. Perhaps that ONE company was offered HD-DVDs at a loss if they agreed to drop BluRay. That wouldn't be uncommon in this industry. Nobody knows for sure yet but them."

You mean that they didn't give that press conference in which they stated that it was cost-efficiency and format advantages?

Quote: "Don't worry, I'm sure Sony's format will win in the end--- they always do. *cough* Betamax *cough* Minidisc *cough* UMD "

Hah. Quoted.


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Kentaree
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 14:07
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Quote: "Actually, this year I believe it started at 2:1 then went up to 3:1 and is now down to just under 2:1. So even though its selling double the amount of HD-DVD disks you still don't seem to understand that this means it is selling more. I can't help you then."


I can't be arsed reading back to see f it was you who said it or not, but it was said that because the Wii is now outselling the PS3 2:1 rather than 3:1 that the PS3 is gaining, so isn't the same true here?

I agree with tha_rami, one of the HD-DVDs main advantages is it's name, everyone's heard of DVD, everyone's heard of HD. Blueray? Name is catchy, but the average consumer doesn't have a clue what it is. As a matter of face, I remember reading an article that a large amount of people who bought the PS3 have no idea that it has Blu-ray, I'll try and find it later.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 14:34
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I've got a really good idea. Why don't you guys just remember that these are games consoles and that there are more important things to worry about in life than proving each other wrong.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 14:47
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Congratulations, you just wasted about 15 seconds of your life berating us about posting to a useless thread! Your mother must be proud!

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Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 14:56
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It'd take 15 seconds for someone with fat finger syndrome (such as you), however it took me about 10 seconds. Add the time it took me to write this, and that's about 20 seconds of my life you have STOLEN from me.

You shall be hearing from my solicitor.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 14:58
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Only if he's not on strike...

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 15:08 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 15:08
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But when I'm nearing pass out time, proving people wrong makes me feel better cause I'm an [insert ethinicity here] caucausian guy!

Dr. Mannete- OMG It's Zombie's voice, it's so Suave!

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 22:46
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I went away from this thread for a while because I'm so sick and tired of these "PS3 sucks" threads. But I found an article that was too interesting to not post. First, though...
Quote: "The latest Sales figures show that BluRay (80,000/month) currently has a 2:1 sales lead over HD-DVD (50,000/month) however something to note is that 6months ago this was different as BluRay (110,000/month) was beating HD-DVD (35,000/month) almost 3:1."

HILARIOUS! When I said the Playstation 3 was closing the gap in being outsold, a number of people said it was a poor arguement. I can go through this same thread and find people saying that. But with Blu-Ray trouncing HD-DVD in sales right now, the exact same arguement is made to support HD-DVD's rising success? And no one seems to care? Very interesting indeed!

Anyhoo, I just recieved an email alert from CNN about Playstation 3 sales doubling after the price cut, in a very, very short period of time. The article says that the price cut makes the PS3 more competitive against the Wii and 360. Here's how the sales break down to date (according to CNN, anyway):

360: 11.6 million sales since launch
Wii: 9.3 million sales since launch
PS3: 5.0 million sales since launch

So it appears 360 sales aren't that much better than PS3 sales, actually. When you figure that it's been out for two years, that averages out to roughly 5.8 million sales per year... 800,000 sales more than the PS3. I don't know how many units the 360 sold in its first year, but I'm going to step out on a limb here and suggest that the 360's first-year sales weren't that much better than the PS3's first-year sales. It's only a very rough guess, as Google refuses to point me toward how many units the 360 sold in its first year... instead it shows a million other threads talking about this exact same topic, go figure . One of those threads (this one, from the team XBox forum) has a poster listing the games released in the first year for 360, and the games released in the first year for PS3. Apparently, the 360 had 88 games, and the PS3 had 97 games. I found that fairly interesting, although I'm sure it won't actually count toward anything with so many people refusing to acknowledge that the PS3 is actually a great console .


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 22:59
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I'm sure it is a great console. Just I can't afford it, I don't have room for it, there isn't much out to interest me and I can't afford the games.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Kentaree
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 23:01
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Those numbers are incorrect, the Wii is estimated to be at more than 13 million already, and the 360 is at more than that, not sure by how much. PS3 is probably higher than that too.

Also, if you read my comment, I was using the ratio in a sarcastic/humorous sense.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 23:02
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Matt, I think those figures are a little dated

Quote: ""We are coming back up again," Stringer said. The company aims to sell 10 million PS3s by the end of its fiscal year in March. Nintendo has already sold 13.2 million Wiis."



As for how many 360's sold in the first year, I don't have an exact figure but they were around 8 million when the nextgenwars stuff started.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
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tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 23:06
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The stats are a bit dated, but I agree the PS3 is catching up and that it is a bit odd that the same argumented is rated by two standards.


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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 23:35 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 23:39
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Matt, those figures are even more wrong than nextgenwars.com is right now. So please don't go around making a point off of them. Nintendo has stated that the wii was over 13 million in sales, and that was a few weeks ago, if not an entire month. And I'm quite certain that the Wii has at this point passed 360 in sales. At least on that I think nextgen is right.

And start thinking about posting that thread.


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Keo C
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 23:42
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Look at all the text!


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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 02:11
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Quote: "Since I bought one I have been very impressed with its growing features."


Out of curiosity, can you name a few of its growing features that you've been "very" impressed with? This is not a snarky question--- it's serious. I too have a PS3 and it remains off for weeks on end, so I'd like to know what I'm missing.

Quote: "Playstation 3 sales doubling after the price cut"


Somebody please buy Matt a marketing book. That is *not* amazing. The same thing would happen if Wal-Mart cuts the prices of their egg-beaters--- soccer moms would buy them in droves and the numbers would show a huge surge in egg-beaters. This of course does not mean that more eggs are getting... uh... beaten. If that makes sense. This is not surprising. What's surprising is it took this long for Sony to cut the price.

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Zappo
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 02:29 Edited at: 16th Nov 2007 03:46
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Quote: "You mean that they didn't give that press conference in which they stated that it was cost-efficiency and format advantages?"

Well, they aren't going to publicly say they can use the HD-DVD format much cheaper than everyone else, are they? That would cause major problems in the HD-DVD camp as everyone else would want the same price.

Quote: "The ONLY title I've seen use BluRay yet for actually holding game data is Lair. Although you can say "well all of the PS3 games are using BluRay", this just isn't true."

I let this one go earlier Raven, because I wanted to be sure before I posted (something you should perhaps consider ). I have just checked Resistance:FoM, Sega Rally, Motorstorm and Heavenly Sword and they are all BluRay disks. I haven't seen any PS3 games yet which aren't on BluRay disks.

EDIT:
Quote: "Out of curiosity, can you name a few of its growing features that you've been "very" impressed with? This is not a snarky question--- it's serious. I too have a PS3 and it remains off for weeks on end, so I'd like to know what I'm missing."

No problem. Here is a few features off the top of my head which I currently use - not including playing games
Web Browser: I use the Web browser quite a bit. Its great for sending Web based email and good for watching music videos or cartoons for my daughter through YouTube. She loves playing online flash games too. Much faster than waiting for my PC to boot up and log in too, and the resolution is almost as good (1080).
Video Viewer: I stick mp4 videos and movies on it to watch. Actually, most of them are on my USB hard drive which I just plug in and access which it does floorlessly. It does of course support MPeg1, MPeg2 etc. video too.
BluRay Movies: Obviously its great for playing BluRay high definition movies.
Photo Manager: I plug my camera in (USB), or just the SD Card and upload my photos to it so I can manage them and view them whenever I like. It has some very cool slideshow modes.
Print your Photos: I don't currently own a compatible printer so I don't yet use this feature, but there are both Epson models and now Canon models too which you can plug in and print your pictures directly from the PS3.
MP3/Music Jukebox: Its great for sticking your MP3s on and using it like a jukebox, especially as it now has playlist support. Its good for ripping tracks from CDs too so you don't have to keep changing the CD. I often plug in my MP3 player and play music directly from that, or change the music on it from my library on the PS3. The cool visuals mode when playing music is nice to chill out to.
Network Media Centre support: It supports the DLNA protocol so if you have a media server on your network (or just a PC with Windows Media Player 11 on it) then you can access your media library from the PS3. This includes music, photos and video. I use this quite a bit to copy stuff over to the PS3 from my computer.
Downloading trailers: I am a bit of a film lover so its nice to download trailers to new films in high definition for free from the Playstation Store. you can also download game trailers and 'making of' movies for games such as Uncharted. You can now play video as its downloading too so you don't have to wait until its all come down before you start watching it. You can of course leave several things downloading in the background while you play games or whatever and it will notify you when each of them has finished.
Downloading demos, full games and addons: You can download free demos (or full free games like Gran Turismo HD Concept) or pay for full games much cheaper than the retail packaged ones. Of course there are lots of PS1 titles to download too for about £3 each. Add ons for games you own (new levels, new vehicles, new game modes) are often free.
Voice Chat: Plug in a USB headset (I use my Logitech made Ghost Recon one from the PS2) or use a bluetooth earpiece if you have one and you can make voice calls to people on your friends list, as well as chat to other online players in most games.
Video conferencing: Plug in your old EyeToy from the PS2 (which is detected as a normal USB camera so you might be able to use others too - I haven't tried any others) and you can have up to six people on screen in a video conferencing session.
Themes: You have always been able to change the wallpaper on the main menu screen to whatever picture you like, but you can also now download or make your own themes with custom icons and different fonts for the menu. Doesn't change functionality but its nice to customize your desktop.
Backing Up: Once you have downloaded commercial games etc. or stuck your precious photographs on it, it would be a nightmare if the data got lost so its got a nice backup feature. Plug in a storage device (e.g. USB hard disk) and backup whatever you like onto that for safe keeping.

There are lots of other features I haven't mentioned, like the fact Sony allow you to boot to other operating systems like Linux to open it up as a whole new computer. If you happen to own a PSP you can partner that with your PS3 and access your media from anywhere in the world via WiFi - and even turn your PS3 on remotely if its in standby mode! There are lots of other things coming soon too, like being able to download TV episodes, the 'Home' social networking system, DivX playback which is being certified for it right now, and the dual HD digital TV tuner allowing you to record TV on your PS3 like a dual PVR. Plenty to keep you occupied, I am sure Jeku.
Quote: "Somebody please buy Matt a marketing book. That is *not* amazing."

Well, it might be amazing to some people here. It goes to show that the the rest of the world doesn't share the apparent unfounded hatred for the PS3 as displayed in this thread. Funny that.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 04:18 Edited at: 16th Nov 2007 04:20
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Quote: "Well, they aren't going to publicly say they can use the HD-DVD format much cheaper than everyone else, are they? That would cause major problems in the HD-DVD camp as everyone else would want the same price."

I think you missed my point. They stated that it was cost efficiency and key features. No one ever mentioned much cheaper or everyone else. HD DVD is just better, in their opinion.

Those options, sorry to say, I don't give a damn about them. I buy a console to game on it, not to replace my television and PC. It's a development I've been following with a bit of disgust - I wonder when the time will come that we can press a secret keycombination to enable the dishwasher. This is applicable to both the XBOX and PS3, by the way. I think Microsofts console offers a lot of similar options for the XBOX.

I want to game on my console, and currently the PS3 is more of a hub than a gaming console. The only fun title up till now is Ratchet and Clank, which is (if you ask me) just more of the same (good stuff) and the first must-have will be Uncharted. I can't wait, honestly. Until the hit games roll in for the PS3, it's a plain sucky thing to have for lack of use for me.


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Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 04:24
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I have a silver ps2.

Winner my a longshot!
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aluseus GOD
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 04:55
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as much as id like to make an extra long thread, this is getting pointless and is (dare i say it) almost as bad a debate as say creationism would be. Plz lock.

alus.portbb.com go there.
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Keo C
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 05:03
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I agree, let's put a padlock on this thread and *lose* the key.


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aluseus GOD
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Location: I\'m here. Now I\'m there. I keep moving
Posted: 16th Nov 2007 05:17
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its throw away! get it right!

alus.portbb.com go there.
[quote]A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes.[/quote} -zenicanin14 the stupidest user in the world.
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Keo C
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 05:18 Edited at: 16th Nov 2007 05:18
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Fine. I will next time.


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Aaron Miller
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Playing: osu!
Posted: 16th Nov 2007 05:45
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There is no ps4 out currently, unless you count the psp as the ps3 and the ps3 as the ps4.... In which case the ps4 IS out..... But it all depends on perspective.


Cheers,

-naota

"I'd newbie slap here, but I've no idea how far I'd need slap before they'd come back with a clue." - VanB
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Jeku
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 07:32
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@Zappo - Please answer my last question. I'm waiting here with my PS3 wondering where these awesome things are that you're referring to.

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Zappo
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 12:35 Edited at: 16th Nov 2007 12:40
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Erm... I thought I just answered it! See above.

Quote: "I want to game on my console, and currently the PS3 is more of a hub than a gaming console."

Well, if all you want to do is play games on it then thats fine. Just do that. For everyone else who doesn't own a PC, doesn't want one in their living room, or would like one piece of kit which can play games, browse the web, play movies, be a media centre etc. etc. then they can do that too. Complaining modern consoles do too much is just a bit silly IMO.

aluseus GOD: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the thread


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