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Geek Culture / RuneScape graphical updates

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 27th May 2008 23:59 Edited at: 28th May 2008 00:00
Graphics Update Dev Diary should come soon, as the month is almost over...

I've been doing a number of quests, and am appreciating how they are actually funny and enjoyable, with relatively small amounts of fetching.

I'm just posting that due to my imense dissapointment with the quests in Age of Conan.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th May 2008 00:55
I've actually started playing Runescape again - new features have been added and it's actually more enjoyable now, for one thing it was difficult getting money on there and after losing my good stuff, I kind of got fed up with the fact the copius amounts of wood I had, people wouldn't buy. With the new Exchange place, it has actually made it a lot easier getting more money and replacing the lost items - plus I managed to raise the 2 levels higher I needed to cut yews, so I am officially a Runescape geek (again), I feel proud and ashamed at the same time. I've also noticed how many more people run around calling newbies names and have been asking numerous female characters out...I think a lot of kids on there are going through puberty at the moment.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
xxRSxx
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Posted: 28th May 2008 01:31
runescape used to be good. i played when it was at the point where there was no hackers and all that and it was FUN. now its filled with hackers and rules and crappy graphics (though they seem to think its good)and some crappy money system so u gota pay an exact ammount for an item. good old runescape u could spend a full day on it people will be like dont u wana go outside? and ur like HELL No! now the new one ud rather slam ur head against a tree than play R.I.P Runescape
flickenmaste
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Posted: 28th May 2008 02:57
Quote: "I've also noticed how many more people run around calling newbies names and have been asking numerous female characters out...I think a lot of kids on there are going through puberty at the moment."


one reason why that game is lower down on the fun scale

What you know wont hurt you- except me
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th May 2008 14:24
Actually flicken, I find them amusing - mind you when people are pathetic and get people down I find them amusing, I've been annoyed by those sorts of things before and it's not worth it. When you step back and look at them, you realise it's one of those strange things in society that's amusing.

Quote: "runescape used to be good. i played when it was at the point where there was no hackers and all that and it was FUN. now its filled with hackers and rules and crappy graphics (though they seem to think its good)and some crappy money system so u gota pay an exact ammount for an item. good old runescape u could spend a full day on it people will be like dont u wana go outside? and ur like HELL No! now the new one ud rather slam ur head against a tree than play "


Not come across Hackers yet and the rules are really just your standard netiquette and things in place to make it fair for everyone. Crappy graphics, well Java through an internet browser isn't exactly a good place for good quality graphics on that scale - and the RS team seem to try and accomodate for low specs - with their graphical updates it's an improvement that works. Not as good as your standard games, but Runescape was never meant to be (as they aim for a large number of machines and browser play) The money system now isn't that bad - you've got a better place to exchange items and you can quickly earn money. The people there can be idiotic, as for not going outside - well for any kind of dedicated gaming, you need to poke your head out of the door and have some kind of life - though when I was at school, a number of kids did rush to the computers at lunch time to play online games and obsess over their newest way to get around the Runescape block on the system. They probably never really got out much.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 28th May 2008 15:58
Quote: "I feel proud and ashamed at the same time. "

I know exactly what you mean.

And grand exchange is awesome. Now I actually know how to get money in an orderly fashion. And you're right about hackers, as most of the hackers can't do a whole lot with the new rules in play, or not easily anyways.

For those of you who are members, a week ago I was doing the Fishing Contest quest, and I burst out laughing when I went up and talked to the mysterious stranger. There are some parts of RS which are just absolutely hilarious. I really like how you seem to actually talk to npcs, rather than just getting a box of text that you look at and groan. For the graphical update I'd really like to see the talk heads be the actual npc heads, as they look pretty decent.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 28th May 2008 18:37
Quote: "And grand exchange is awesome. Now I actually know how to get money in an orderly fashion. "


Yup, it's cleared all of those CPU eating annoying crowds of 'Gloves for sale' - you can actually find and sell what you want at the typical trade price - it's meant I've found people who'll buy my logs through it and I get a fair price out of it - yeah noone buys willows (I've got 100s after trying to level up to level 60 on woodcutting) but now that I can cut yews I can sell them for 400 a piece and demand never runs out - a single inventory of Yews can get you over 10k at the grand exchange. Which is good - if I need money, I can get it quick. Though I need to find the key to Melzar's Maze (which you can't get through Grand Exchange), I lost the one I was given by the quest NPC when I last played it.

At least now Jagex has fixed the quirks that originally put me off from playing, yeah it's a childish game and I'm playing with a bunch of kids experiencing puberty for the first time, but what the hey! It's still fun. (More fun than any of the other MMORPGs I've tried)

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 28th May 2008 20:23 Edited at: 28th May 2008 20:39
THE DEV DIARY IS OUT!

ckick here and follow the links, there's too much really for me to post.

But all those textures are Procedural, so the load time doesn't increase.

And even though the draw distance appears to be the same, having fog is a huge improovement.

if this thred isn't too far down the page by the time the 2nd dev diary comes out, I'll post that too. That one'll cover lighting, water effects, specular shading, fullscreen mode and more...

That sounds awesome.

-just a couple of months until it's released, which hopefuly means July.

Here are the pics shown, though you should read the diary as it explains what's going on.









The only one I couldn't include is a picture of some flags waving and their shadows animating.

SunnyKatt
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Posted: 28th May 2008 22:24
Impressive *only* for in a browser.

Silvester
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Posted: 28th May 2008 23:16
Intresting, Lets hope it comes out soon... Since right now, compared to this it looks really crappy... Luckely gameplay is more important to me though
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th May 2008 02:02
When putting the whole thing into context it looks pretty cool, it's a very large browser game done in java, so who can argue with those results, I'm sure their modellers can actually do better (seeing they're paying about £20k salary for their modellers) but it's really down to the 3d rendering in java.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Negrul1
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Posted: 29th May 2008 02:15
All my friends are obsessed with it. Is the sky still black?

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flickenmaste
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Posted: 29th May 2008 03:47


hey look what i found....top MMO games played...ur right RS is the second...but...wow is not the first!

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 29th May 2008 04:06
What on earth is habbo hotel???

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 29th May 2008 06:24 Edited at: 29th May 2008 06:53
Quote: "Impressive *only* for in a browser."

You seem to have an immense amount of trouble grasping that no one expects the update to look like age of conan. No duh in a browser. The comparison is to the current rs, and the fact that it is actually on some graphic level able to be compared at all to other mmos now. Also, read the article. All of this for the same exact load time!! And you notice to part about updating the visuals of 32,000 objects? And still no increase to load times. This is a pretty huge achievement for any game, it takes a huge amount of prejudice towards a game to still try and criticize it like that. Name a single other game that does so much to improve itself. You could argue that RS should have done it this way from the beginning, but if you read the article, you'll notice the technology didn't even exist when it was made, the same as when they completely rebuilt the game for rs2, when the technology became available, and same with the third graphical reworking to the world. I think this counts as the 4th major rs graphical update.

There's my rant. I'm [pretend there's an explicit here]ing sick of this [insert another one here].

Quote: "When putting the whole thing into context it looks pretty cool, it's a very large browser game done in java, so who can argue with those results, I'm sure their modellers can actually do better (seeing they're paying about £20k salary for their modellers) but it's really down to the 3d rendering in java."

I think most of the modelers have been working on the new parts of the world and this update, as those are done pretty well. I bet we're going to see another real improvement to graphics with the full screen mode making things right up in your face. That's what I'm hoping anywho.

Quote: "All my friends are obsessed with it. Is the sky still black?"

Currently, yes. Not in the update though.

@flickenmaste, intresting, thanks for the post.

Edit: Reposting.

THE DEV DIARY IS OUT!

ckick here and follow the links, there's too much really for me to post.

But all those textures are Procedural, so the load time doesn't increase.

And even though the draw distance appears to be the same, having fog is a huge improovement.

if this thred isn't too far down the page by the time the 2nd dev diary comes out, I'll post that too. That one'll cover lighting, water effects, specular shading, fullscreen mode and more...

That sounds awesome.

-just a couple of months until it's released, which hopefuly means July.

Here are the pics shown, though you should read the diary as it explains what's going on.









The only one I couldn't include is a picture of some flags waving and their shadows animating.

flickenmaste
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Posted: 29th May 2008 07:19
bizar i got that off sherwooddungeon.com

sherwood dungeon has better graphics than RS but its not as fun to play, all you do is kill stuff and pvp..they are making sherwood dungeon better tho by having pets and mounts and they recently added a pvp arena(i read on the dev diarys for sherwood dungeon)

so thats one reason why RS is more popular than most games is cause its more immerse in content

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 29th May 2008 12:50
Quote: "Quote: "Impressive *only* for in a browser."
You seem to have an immense amount of trouble grasping that no one expects the update to look like age of conan. No duh in a browser. The comparison is to the current rs, and the fact that it is actually on some graphic level able to be compared at all to other mmos now. Also, read the article. All of this for the same exact load time!! And you notice to part about updating the visuals of 32,000 objects? And still no increase to load times. This is a pretty huge achievement for any game, it takes a huge amount of prejudice towards a game to still try and criticize it like that. Name a single other game that does so much to improve itself. You could argue that RS should have done it this way from the beginning, but if you read the article, you'll notice the technology didn't even exist when it was made, the same as when they completely rebuilt the game for rs2, when the technology became available, and same with the third graphical reworking to the world. I think this counts as the 4th major rs graphical update.

There's my rant. I'm [pretend there's an explicit here]ing sick of this [insert another one here]."


It is very impressive. For in a browser. I'm impressed with what they've done. In a browser. For an actual MMO, the graphics are still bad. They kept the same loading time? That's impressive. But then again, the graphics are still bad. But they're in a browser, so that makes up for it...

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2008 23:52
@flickenmaste, thanks for the mention, I tried the game, but unfortunately it killed my browser, after making me update shockwave player and installing Norton. Tried it again, still killed my browser.
You're absolutely right about why people play RS.

@ZekeGames, sorry about the rant, my point is that everyone understands that it's in a browser, and that of course the update is not going to make RS appear current gen or even last gen (aside from being fully lightmapped). This is more of a comparison to the current visuals than to other games, as it is a huge improvement in that regard, and much more than would be expected from a single update of any mmo.

Update, aside from two new quests being released this month, the next dev diary will be released (no mention as to when), and that the graphical update will come early July.

flickenmaste
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 00:10
well RS is not a bad game..it just gets boring of "click click click....click...click...click"

all you do is click to play the game

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 00:16
Quote: "well RS is not a bad game..it just gets boring of "click click click....click...click...click"

all you do is click to play the game"

Yeah, I suppose it isn't appealing if you don't like point and click games at all.

flickenmaste
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2008 00:40
thats about the only point and click game i ever played.....and the fighting is boring to...you just sit there....each a lobster when ur about to die..watch more...run out of food..die


if your a member then fights the same unless you have a wep with special attack


fighting in that is...if you hit high and have tons of food you win

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 18:54 Edited at: 16th Jun 2008 20:01
Second part of theDev diary is out:
go to http://www.runescape.com/ to see it for yourself.

Screen of lighting:


Screen of Water:

(for note, the underwater part didn't exist before, all the underwater in all of RS had to be modeled just for the water effect)

Screen of the old and new talk heads:


And the first ever screen of the full detail mode in game:


Just to compare, here's basicaly what RS looks like right now:


There is also anti assailing available in full screen, and as you can see it has a much nicer HUD. Also areas of the game like lumbridge and Al Karid are finally getting a graphical update to go with the full overhaul.

Edit: and as I expected,
Quote: "Speaking of looking at the game from a new perspective, Mod Farley says, “This project has meant artists and developers looking at areas of the game that haven't been looked at for a long time. We have an ever-growing list of other things we now can and want to do!” He finishes with, “The whole project has created a great atmosphere at Jagex, a great positive feeling. It's been a rejuvenating experience for Jagex as well as RuneScape.”"

and
Quote: "“Altogether, I am massively pleased with this update, but there's always more we can do. RuneScape needs to constantly evolve to remain a state-of-the-art online game, so we're already planning future graphical improvements...”"


This makes me think we might be seeing avatars that look a whole lot like the new talk heads in future updates, as well as an increased draw distance (hopefully).

Edit2: and just to compare, some screens of wow and age of conan and guild wars:




Yeah, Runescape has a far ways to go, but at least now it can be compared.

Edit3: After looking at the dev diary again, NPCs, Avatara, animations, and cut scenes are all getting an overhaul with the new update. I wasn't certain from the in game screenshot, but now I'm sure, those are much improoved characters, even if they are still in the same stlye as before.

Anonymous User
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 19:57
Well to be fair RS doesn't look that much worse than WOW. QI might start playing again after they update the graphics.

???
Silvester
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 20:20
Interesting update really, But comparing a webbrowser game to AoC graphics is just madness... And that AoC on high, the quality it can run at at most PC's is even worse then Guild Wars looks like on lowest...

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 20:32 Edited at: 16th Jun 2008 20:34
No no, I just mean now RS can be compared, even if it's leagues behind the likes of AoC. Before there wasn't even a point in comparing. I think it'd be ignorant of me not to post the best looking mmo in comparison.

Silvester
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 21:50
Thats true, Alot of people forget though, that its still a Java game, I just wanted to remind people its still Java... So we won't get argue's about that it can look loads better...

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 23:09
hmm, good point. I hadn't thought of that.

oh, and I forgot to mention, but the avatar editor has over 4000 parts in it. I had no idea, and they re-did all of them for this update. Then they re-did the 1500 or so human npc characters, of the 10,000+ npc's. I mean, that's plain amazing.

Silvester
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 23:24
Yes, its a pretty large game... Although I did not expect those kind of numbers.(Offcourse this update will keep people statisfied for a little while)

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flickenmaste
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 01:28
well the graphic in RS look like they can get better..idk if i would still play tho...

Pince of darkness...just make an incredible MMO with ur program(or give me the program ) and then make it even better than RS!


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Destrugter 1
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 01:29
Jagex is doing a great job. I myself play RuneScape, and am currently developing a community site for it. It will be a good one because I don't put up with people who are noobs, or insult the noobs, because if you ask me insulting one just puts you down at their rank.

RuneScape isn't java based, it just uses java for the login system, main site features (etc. etc.) as for the actual script Jagex made up their own language to write RuneScape in to prevent cheating (if it really was made in java, every website maker would know how to cheat -_- really come on...it isn't that hard to figure out if you think about it for a second.)

As for the graphics stuff, who cares what graphics the games has. The gameplay is all that matters. If graphics really mattered, the DS and PSP would be completely gone. Actually come to think of it, Nintendo would die as a whole. Remember Line Rider? worst graphics ever, but look now, the kid has given Nintendo permission to make it on the DS and Wii. If graphics really outweighed gameplay, then why is Super Mario Bros. or Super Mario 64, or Zeldacarina of time (the list goes on forever) so popular?

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flickenmaste
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 01:35
@destrugter- yes i dont care about graphics in most games( like zelda OOT rules) and i understand..RS has been out for a long time.

Just I dont agree that RSs gameplay is hat great..its just click click click


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 01:39
When ocarina of time came out the graphics were amazing, so that shouldn't be one of the examples...

tha_rami
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 01:40 Edited at: 17th Jun 2008 01:40
Oops. There's two pages.

/me shuts up.


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 01:48
There's five, rami. lol

tha_rami
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 02:03
Not to me, I have it set so that it shows 100 posts per page. I dislike multiple pages .

I feel sorry for Bizar Guy, posting something rather cool for the fans and having some people start a whole thing about the best MMORPG. Screw it, I hate RuneScape but it darn sure is the most popular and probably the best browser based MMORPG out there.


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Kentaree
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Quote: "RuneScape isn't java based, it just uses java for the login system, main site features (etc. etc.) as for the actual script Jagex made up their own language to write RuneScape in to prevent cheating (if it really was made in java, every website maker would know how to cheat -_- really come on...it isn't that hard to figure out if you think about it for a second.)"


Whoa mate, you seem to be getting Java confused with Javascript, even though they're not remotely the same thing. Java is an actual compiled language, unlike javascript, which is just that, a script. As far as I know, Runescape is written entirely in Java, and uses (or used) Java3D for the graphics. Java itself is quite secure, even though it can be decompiled from bytecode, but ultimately security for MMOs depend on the server, not on the client anyway. If the server allows illegal actions, then it doesn't matter what the client is written in, it can, and will be hacked. Next time do your research

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 02:16
It's not hard to hack runescape on the clientside of things, I managed to make my mony go up into the millions, it showed on screen (I used a simple tool) but truth is, it had no effect on what money I actually had, the only value it changed is where th client was showing me, the server had the ACTUAL value stored. Hacking the client isn't difficult, but it does bugger-all. The server side, I'm sure their servers are very secure and quite imprenetable.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Destrugter 1
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 02:17 Edited at: 17th Jun 2008 02:30
Jagex told everyone that they've written RuneScape in RuneScript a while back...They made up their own language for it.

EDIT:And just to make sure no1 thinks im lieing, this is quoted directly from RuneScape's news archives. Nothing has been changed and if you don't beleive me you can go look for yourself.

Quote: "
18 September 2006 - Progress update
We're sure some of you are wondering when the next update will be and what we've been up to lately - So we thought we'd tell you a little bit about what's been going on. We haven't forgotten about you! We have just been (very) busy upgrading Runescript (our custom scripting language that we use to write the game).
Before we can start using the new version, we need to make sure that everything still works and that the changes won't break existing content. With a game as complex as RuneScape this has been an enormous task, hence the gap in updates last week. Indeed key people have been working evenings and weekends as well to get it all done!

Naturally we are still working on the types of exciting updates you'd expect, but 'under the hood' upgrades like this are also essential to help us do new types of content and continue to raise the standard of future releases.

We are aiming for an update later this week assuming the rest of our internal testing continues to progress without issue. If you're wondering what it will be, do read the behind the scenes document for September. We are still planning on sticking to that schedule and releasing the updates we said we would this month. And that's in addition to the Runescript upgrade work!

Thanks for your patience!
"


Link for extra proof:http://news.runescape.com/newsitem.ws?id=636

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 03:46
Quote: "I feel sorry for Bizar Guy, posting something rather cool for the fans and having some people start a whole thing about the best MMORPG. Screw it, I hate RuneScape but it darn sure is the most popular and probably the best browser based MMORPG out there."

Yeah, that's why I post so little about RS usually.
I'm proud to be ashamed to play RS

Silvester
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 08:12
Quote: "Pince of darkness...just make an incredible MMO with ur program(or give me the program ) and then make it even better than RS!"


Do you even have any idea how much time and effort it takes to make something that can even be considered playable? And there is NO bloody way in HELL I'm giving it away.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 12:23
Destrugter, yes, that's a scripting language, you still need something to process that as normal browsers don't know runescript. The engine it's running on is java, and then likely for most logic etc they use runescript

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 05:59
Ok, well the update is here, for members. It will be out for free players as well once the beta is over, which I imagine is in a week or two.

And let me say, it is awesome. It's hard to tell without a high res vid, but the animations are excellent now, lighting is dynamic and shadows are animated. Armours, people, and some of the major cities, have all been revamped. Also things like the teleport animation have been improved, and now watching your guy teleport from town to town is really cool. It still feels like RuneScape, so if you didn't like it to begin with, you still wont like it now. But now the game looks decent, and has the promise of many more graphical updates in the future. For the first time I went exploring because I wanted to look at places in RS (I've done so before, but this was the first time I took some time and wasn't really trying to memorize the map), not just for some sort of goal.

Anyways, here me and a few screens:








flickenmaste
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 07:46
looks ok but looks like they made better textures and improved char models a lil bit


[url=http://userbarmaker.com/][img]
Silvester
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 08:35 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2008 10:34
Nice, I just finished playing it, No more window effeft Well done Jagex!

EDIT : Oh, and the animations are also more smooth right now. Instead of shocking, they actually sway their arms!
EDIT 2 : I can't make screenshots... hmm... it will only display a blank screen on the image. Oh well.

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Anonymous User
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 19:01
Quote: "EDIT 2 : I can't make screenshots... hmm... it will only display a blank screen on the image. Oh well."


Have you got anti aliasing turned on?

???
Silvester
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 19:59
No, since that doesn't appear to make any difference at all.

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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 05:43
Quote: "looks ok but looks like they made better textures and improved char models a lil bit"

And without playing it, that's all you'll ever think.

Quote: "No, since that doesn't appear to make any difference at all."

It does for me. What res are you running RS on and what's your screen res. Anti-as ailing only make a difference if the res of the game is lower than the res of the monitor.


I still get plenty of errors going out of full screen or trying to log in while in full screen, but that's why it's still beta. I'm hoping one of the next graphical updates they mentioned is the ability to adjust the draw distance, so that it's more than 100 feet away from me or so.

Veron
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 08:01
I don't play the game, but as a side note, the new website has been extremely well done, it looks amazing. The old one was... bleh.


Silvester
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 08:14
Quote: "It does for me. What res are you running RS on and what's your screen res. Anti-as ailing only make a difference if the res of the game is lower than the res of the monitor."


Both 1280*1024, and I like to keep it that way, since lower resolutions always seem to screw up my desktop layout.

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 09:06
I used to play, and it was fun at the time. Personally, I think it's probably the best mmorpg out there. It's certainly among the cheapest, it's constantly having more features and quests added without having to buy expansion packs, and a lot of the in game dialogue was funny.

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