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Geek Culture / An Interesting View on Piracy

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 22:45
I dunno how many of you read the magazine, PC Gamer UK, bu I found an article in there talking about a Law company that is helping several media companies in their mission against piracy in Britain...

It spoke of the case of a mother who lived in a council house, who downloaded a game she couldn't afford to buy, for her son who really badly wanted it. As a result, she was fined over £6000. Now, the really ironic thing is that this woman will only realistically be able to pay it ack in £20-30 monthly installments, at which point the article asked why do this to grab such a tiny amount of cash?

Because realistically, this woman would never have bought the game, because she didn't have the money. Now the game company wouldn't have lost any money if she had successfully pirated it, because she'd never have bought it in the first place. A second factor is computers where multiple people use it, how will you know who stole the media?

A final note it added, is that most of the people who don't have the money to buy games, but want them enough to pirate them, are chikdren or young teenagers, that could possibly have done it without their parents' knowledge. Is this right? I don't really know. Personally, in my area, everyone pirates albums from Lymewire. I don't do it because I don't see the point, I have yet to find a Leona Lewis album I want that badly...

So is this right? Should we punish people who could never afford them anyway, or punish parents for the child's faults? I know piracy is wrong, it's glorified cyber-theft. But is it right to do stuff like this that puts stresses on an already stressed-out single mother, or parents who have nothing to do with the sins of their child?

"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a man a fishing rod, and he'll break it up into firewood...or swap it for a fish."
-Frankie Boyle, on Mock the Week
Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 22:55
Laws are laws and it shouldn't matter what your situation is. If you break them, you should have to pay the price.


Game Maker
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 23:03
Quote: "Laws are laws and it shouldn't matter what your situation is. If you break them, you should have to pay the price."

Agreed.

BatVink
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 23:13 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2009 23:14
Quote: "realistically, this woman would never have bought the game, because she didn't have the money"


Life is about choices. I can't afford 3D Studio Max, but that's because I want my children to have shoes to wear for school. That doesn't mean I can pirate 3DS Max.

You often find that people that "can't afford" these things smoke, or drink more than the average punter, or have a bigger car than they need. It's perfectly OK to do these things, as long as they realise they are choosing these pastimes over buying games.

As for the council house angle - I know of council house tenants with no jobs, with a mobile phone each, DS, PSP, Wii, nice big TV and more.

JoelJ
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 23:35
I can't afford a car, so I'm going to go steal one off the lot.

I wouldn't buy it anyway.

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2009 23:51 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2009 23:53
You make a lot of sense, but no. But, jumpin' Jesus on a pogo stick, £6000?! That's a lot, just for pirating one game. I think that's definately unfair. I mean, when I was a little nipper, I screamed and wailed at my mum to buy me toys, etc. She was so fed up with it, that she just gave in and bought it. But this lady can't afford it, and she had practically no choice but to pirate it.

Now, please, nobody hold it against me here, but big, massive, ugly companies like EA (No offence, Jeku ) make money when they fart. EA's unofficial "Money over quality" policy makes them partially deserve to have their games pirated (Once again, no offence, Jeku).

EDIT: Not that I would ever condone doing something like that.

draknir_
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 00:02
No company deserves to have their games pirated. Some companies have less business ethics than others, but as long as they aren't breaking any laws then you shouldn't pirate their games either. All the hate for companies like Microsoft, EA and Google is just ridiculous.

As for the woman, yes it's a sad story she has to pay 6000 pounds for a crime committed by her child, but nearly anyone with pirated software could claim that it was their underage child who committed the crime. How could we enforce copyright on those few people that are caught if everyone used the 'i can't afford it' excuse?

Grandma
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 00:05
Quote: "I can't afford a car, so I'm going to go steal one off the lot.

I wouldn't buy it anyway."

I find it funny how some people can't seem to see the difference from copying and stealing.

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Venge
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 00:07 Edited at: 4th Jan 2009 00:07
Quote: "But this lady can't afford it, and she had practically no choice but to pirate it."


Umm..What? Tell the kid to suck it up and go play outside, instead of breaking the law to get him a few hours' entertainment.

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Robin
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 00:07
Quote: "I can't afford a car, so I'm going to go steal one off the lot.

I wouldn't buy it anyway."


You can't make that sort of comparison - a mp3 track to an actual physical object such as a car.
Consider this:
An artist makes a song, it gets downloaded illegally by someone who would never have bought the song because it was too expensive for him/her to afford. Does the artist lose money? no. An artist will only lose when someone who *might* have bought the song, decided to download it for free instead. (Which obviously, often happens). Just wanted to make that distinction.
And as often is the case, people downloading music illegally can lead to gains for little known artists, as people may buy CD's of music which they wouldn't have done if they wouldn't have downloaded the song illegally and discovered the music. In this case the artist gains. I know 'someone' who has done this several times, and purchased music as a consequence. CD's are better quality after all.

Quote: "
Laws are laws and it shouldn't matter what your situation is. If you break them, you should have to pay the price."

I think what many people are arguing is that the laws are wrong, and should be changed to address the nature of the situation.

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Jeku
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 00:08 Edited at: 4th Jan 2009 00:09
Quote: "Now, please, nobody hold it against me here, but big, massive, ugly companies like EA (No offence, Jeku ) make money when they fart. EA's unofficial "Money over quality" policy makes them partially deserve to have their games pirated (Once again, no offence, Jeku)."


If anyone actually paid attention they'd see EA released more IP this year than any other game company that I can even think of. They took more risks (Mirror's Edge, Army of Two, Skate, Dead Space, etc. etc.) and now their stock has dropped from $60 - $15, consequently causing them to lay off 10% of their staff, many of whom I worked with). I'm not even safe with my job either, and I've lost several thousands in stock in the process.

So yah, innovation does not equal sales. Your "Money over quality" impression of EA is *not* relevant anymore. NHL 09 and FIFA 09 were the two best sports games of '08 without a doubt.

And I watch the industry as a hobby and as my career, so it's really not a biased opinion. I have negative opinions about EA just as much as any other game company, but I hate the EA bashing because it's so easy. They actually took major risks with new IP in '08 and they're still getting trashed. Oh well


Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 00:22
Quote: "Your "Money over quality" impression of EA is *not* relevant anymore."


I'm not exactly saying that every single game published and owned by EA sucks, I'm just saying that some of their actions are not completely honest.

Here's an example; When BioWare made Mass Effect, it was published by Microsoft, and BioWare had promised to everyone who bought the game that it would remain Xbox 360 exclusive. But then EA came and offered to buy BioWare, and the second that BioWare accepted, they announced that they were currently in production with a PC version of the game. But maybe that's just common sense, I mean, it's obvious that Microsoft wanted to make it Xbox exclusive, because they own Xbox, whereas EA supports pretty much every format (correct me if I'm wrong).

I suppose my current observation over EA could be that they leave everything to the developer of the game and stay out of it until the time comes to produce it, but that might have just contradicted my entire previous statement

Chris K
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 00:30 Edited at: 4th Jan 2009 00:31
I think the only stable solution is an Entertainment Tax, and then allowing completely free transfer of entertainment data (music, films, TV, games).

We are half-way there in the UK!

The BBC should be expanded, invent some way of paying artists based on how much the thing is downloaded, or, the BBC just signs them like a record company and makes iPlayer into iTunes...

Surely the future is a massive online directory of all films, TV and music ever, with everyone having access.

BTW apparently the BBC is putting it's entire library of tapes on computer , with something like this in mind. They did a little beta a while ago.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 00:42
It's a nice sentiment, unfortunately, one thing to prevent crime is deterring people. You can't have some heartfelt story let somebody get away with it. If one person gets away with it, then people will see holes in the legal system and exploit it. And it's not as if it'd be secret if a person was let off, imagine the headlines in stuff like the Daily Mail: "Council-Housed Pirate Authorities Let-Off", it would send out the wrong messages. Laws are there for a reason I'm afraid.

For me to agree with ever stealing, it would have to be something you really need, rather than want.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 00:42
I didn't mean that I condone the idea, it's just that I can imagine this person struggling along, and trying to make her kid happy...

I think it's stupid, because now that woman will be in debt to whatever games company it was for life, while they gain a minute £20 a month, which is nothing. Surely a better system would be to deactivate the internet to their house, or lock up their hard drive to prevent them using the stolen media, (or just delete it)...

You wouldn't steal 3DS Max if you could afford it. You wouldn't need to...

"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a man a fishing rod, and he'll break it up into firewood...or swap it for a fish."
-Frankie Boyle, on Mock the Week
Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 00:47
Quote: "I didn't mean that I condone the idea, it's just that I can imagine this person struggling along, and trying to make her kid happy..."


Exactly. That's just what I was trying to say.

tha_rami
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 01:11
As far as I'm concerned, it's a bit like stealing an unborn baby the mother is not aware of that she carries it. If you could steal it without hurting her and do iit, she isn't hurt, she doesn't 'lose' a thing, but that doesn't make it right.

And yes, the fine is major, but they do that to scare people. $20 a month a bad idea because it's 'minor'? How about letting her pay $6000 instantly? I think it's awesome of the company to allow her to pay in terms.

Parents are responsible for minors' actions, too, so that's no surprise either.

And Jeku is right, EA released some whoppin' good new franchises this year. My view of EA has been totally changed. It's sad to see that they're making such a loss with it compared to the franchise-stuff. I'm buying Mirrors Edge tomorrow as a statement to the world.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 01:22
Quote: "And Jeku is right, EA released some whoppin' good new franchises this year. My view of EA has been totally changed. It's sad to see that they're making such a loss with it compared to the franchise-stuff. I'm buying Mirrors Edge tomorrow as a statement to the world."


They're making a loss because of a bad economy. The entire stock market's down. For example, Amazon.com was up to over 100 bucks a share not 6 months ago, it's halved at 54.36. AMD is down to what? $2.38, down from $10 about a year ago.

If EA is blaming their stock prices on piracy, they'll get a fat laugh out of me.

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Oolite
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 01:28
I've had a few so let me off with bad spelling and missing a few points in posts here and there.

I've worked with a few major players in the game industry, this doesn't stop me from hailing them(mind you, if my job depended on it i would be sucking arse right now). I don't agree with all this EA bashing either, you'll find that every single company in the world makes a profit from what they do and if they didn't they wouldn't be a company. Like Jeku said, its easy to bash EA but when you look at the facts its a different matter. Its closed minded opinions like this that really get on my norks. I know a few people who say they would not work for a major games developer but i reckon if an offer came through the door they wouldn't turn it down or they would at least contemplate, long and hard about it.

Ok, so what if EA want to publish the game over many different formats, more formats, most of the time equals more money. At the end of the day, thats what it boils down for every company, they push out quality products because they want money from them. They certainly enjoy this, but at the end of the day, more money, equals more quality products for them to make.I hate to say it but money makes the world go round.
I fear, a ramble is coming and i'm going to get more drinks now so maybe i'll carry this on if someone debates with me.

Oh, and yes, i can understand where the woman is coming from, but at the end of the day, break the law, for whatever reason and you'll have to pay the price. End of that.


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dark coder
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 01:46 Edited at: 4th Jan 2009 01:52
Quote: "If anyone actually paid attention they'd see EA released more IP this year than any other game company that I can even think of. They took more risks (Mirror's Edge, Army of Two, Skate, Dead Space, etc. etc.) and now their stock has dropped from $60 - $15, consequently causing them to lay off 10% of their staff, many of whom I worked with). I'm not even safe with my job either, and I've lost several thousands in stock in the process.

So yah, innovation does not equal sales. Your "Money over quality" impression of EA is *not* relevant anymore. NHL 09 and FIFA 09 were the two best sports games of '08 without a doubt."


Not bashing EA but pointing out some flaws in your argument; Just because a company releases some new products/IP doesn't mean that they can't make them with profit above quality in mind. And you can't say that the loss of sales was a direct result of the change in IP, after all... recession anyone? I'm sure no matter what games they made they and any other developer/publisher would have lost a lot.

[edit] /me throws poo at Jerico2day's telepathy skills for stealing half my argument.

soapyfish
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 01:53
Quote: "You wouldn't steal 3DS Max if you could afford it. You wouldn't need to..."


I think it's safe to assume the vast majority of piracy is done by people who can afford what they are stealing. People pirate things they can afford, they just don't want to pay for it. Fair enough this woman said she couldn't afford it but that just isn't true for the majority of piracy.

What example does it set to her son when she steals something because she can't afford it?

I think the people on this forum should appreciate the problem with piracy more than the majority of other gamers. We all know how much work goes into making even a simple game to get it to a standard at which it can be sold. How would you feel if you were selling a game you had made and somebody decided to pirate it instead?


BiggAdd
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 02:01 Edited at: 4th Jan 2009 02:07
Quote: "You often find that people that "can't afford" these things smoke, or drink more than the average punter, or have a bigger car than they need. It's perfectly OK to do these things, as long as they realise they are choosing these pastimes over buying games.

As for the council house angle - I know of council house tenants with no jobs, with a mobile phone each, DS, PSP, Wii, nice big TV and more.
"

Aaa but you often find these sort of people all have their flash house, car, TV etc on credit.
Which is why we have plunged head first into a recession.

I know of similar sorts of people too.

Quote: "You wouldn't steal 3DS Max if you could afford it. You wouldn't need to..."


Oh, so because I could afford to buy software at the time, that means I have to?
There are plenty of other things I could have used the money for, so why should I buy it?

Piracy is theft. Yes its a little woolly because it is digital media, but you are still getting something for nothing, and its the companies who get nothing for something.

How would you like it if you created a game selling for $20 (That took a couple of years to make). 10 buy it, then 1000 people pirate it.
They can't afford your game, it's only $20 after all... I'm sure you don't mind.
Quote: "

I think it's safe to assume the vast majority of piracy is done by people who can afford what they are stealing. People pirate things they can afford, they just don't want to pay for it"

A point well made.

How does this woman afford the internet? A computer etc. If she has no money?

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 02:32
I dunno, I really don't. The magazine didn't go that in-depth...

I'm not saying piracy is right. I'm saying that there must be another way to punish people in these sort of circumstances...

"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a man a fishing rod, and he'll break it up into firewood...or swap it for a fish."
-Frankie Boyle, on Mock the Week
BiggAdd
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 02:37
But the problem is, that sum of money is there to deter people from pirating in the first place.
If the court turned around and said, "Oh well, as you are poor, we will let you off with a few taps on your wrist"
If they do that, then everyone will believe they can get away with pirating.

CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 02:47
True, very true...

"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a man a fishing rod, and he'll break it up into firewood...or swap it for a fish."
-Frankie Boyle, on Mock the Week
Thraxas
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 03:17
It is a very grey area when it comes to digital media. There are those who don't see it as stealing because the owner of the media doesn't have something physically taken from them.

Personally I do see it as stealing money from the owner of the media. I know not many will agree with me, but whatever.

I also think that the majority of the people who steal software like 3DS Max (or any other expensive high end software) don't generally have the skills to use it anyway, if they did they wouldn't need to steal it. There is so much free software (games or applications) floating around the internet that you shouldn't need to steal it in the first place.

As far as the amount this woman got fined being a deterrent. We all know that it's not going to deter the majority of people. It could be millions of pounds and people would still do it.

Finally if the courts have determined she can afford £20-30 pounds a week to pay off the fine then she could have afforded to buy the game... What's a new game cost in Britain at the moment £40?

soapyfish
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 03:45
Quote: "I'm saying that there must be another way to punish people in these sort of circumstances..."


The punishment wouldn't be a punishment at all if it were lenient. Yes it's a whole heap of money but that's the risk you run by pirating something.


Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 03:49
Good point, but in theory, shouldn't the fine simply be 40 pounds to make up for the price of the game the company lost, and an extra 5 pounds to pay for the minor amount of trouble?

Chenak
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 03:53
If the mother doesnt work and claims council tax, doesnt that mean we are paying the fine for that piracy claim?

If she has to pay for it herself then she deserves the fine, otherwise whats the point. I wonder how they found out she was downloading a particular game. I thought the method to find out if people are downloading certain dodgy stuff is illegal itself.
AlexI
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 04:43 Edited at: 4th Jan 2009 04:43
Quote: "If the mother doesnt work and claims council tax, doesnt that mean we are paying the fine for that piracy claim?"


I guess so but otherwise that money would of gone to her instead of the game company

Xsnip3rX
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 04:54
THIS, is why i plan on making all the games i ever make Free to Play, can't pirate something that's free

General Reed
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 05:05
I think people should be allowed to download the game, Or get it from the store for free, To try it out. Im fed up with having to buy games, Which say they do this and that, Only to find they are utter crap *cough*GTAIV*cough*.

Quote: "Laws are laws and it shouldn't matter what your situation is. If you break them, you should have to pay the price."

This is a very binary way of thinking. Since when were people in the government better in such a way, That they should decide what rules anyone lives by? I understand there needs to be laws to keep order, But that's it. Asking £6000 off a mother who can barley afford the rent, Does nothing for the PEOPLE of the country. It simply makes her life a misery, And gives some fat moron in the government a nice bonus. Like why couldn't they just ask for the money to cover the price of the damn game? The company would not have even made a profit from it, If she didnt download it anyway. So what's the point? Just shows how corrupt government is, In any country.

Heres a great example of a rediculous law. Here in britan, you have to be 16 to have sex. But you have to be 18 to watch pornography. What kind of sence does that make? Its just insane.

Also, Why should a panel of a few hundred people, Get to decide at which age the whole damn country can drink alcahol? Or do anything for that matter, Which could only harm the person in question. It should be the persons choice, Not the morons in governement.

We belong to ourselvs. The bottom line is, Laws should be there to protect those other than themselves from harm, Or mistreatment. Things that only effect the person in question, Should not be controlled by the state.

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General Reed
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 05:13
But yeah, I agree. Pirating is wrong. There really should be a proper testing system tho. Whats the point in buying a game that you cant enjoy. Demos used to represent what the game would be like, but now they are just one 10 min section, And usualy its the best 10 min section out of the whole game.

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 05:25 Edited at: 4th Jan 2009 05:28
Quote: "but as long as they aren't breaking any laws then you shouldn't pirate their games either"


Wrong, you can't and shouldn't pirate their games either way.

Quote: "I think it's stupid, because now that woman will be in debt to whatever games company it was for life, while they gain a minute £20 a month, which is nothing. Surely a better system would be to deactivate the internet to their house, or lock up their hard drive to prevent them using the stolen media, (or just delete it)..."


That's just crazy. She earned her life of debt, it doesn't matter how innocent she looks.

Jeku
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 06:04 Edited at: 4th Jan 2009 06:05
Quote: "If EA is blaming their stock prices on piracy, they'll get a fat laugh out of me."


They're not blaming their stock prices on piracy. Who said that?

Quote: "I think people should be allowed to download the game, Or get it from the store for free, To try it out."


Companies have a right to decide to make a playable demo so you can try the game out for free. If they don't, it's up to you to do your own research or rent the game first.

Quote: "Since when were people in the government better in such a way, That they should decide what rules anyone lives by?"


Do you really want me to answer that, or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

Quote: "It simply makes her life a misery, And gives some fat moron in the government a nice bonus."


If you're poor and you get caught with crack, should you not get charged?

Quote: "Like why couldn't they just ask for the money to cover the price of the damn game?"


Because then nobody would think twice about just pirating a game if their only penalty was to pay for it. Punishment is meant as a deterrent. The justice system doesn't charge people different amounts depending on their income.

Quote: "Just shows how corrupt government is, In any country."


Then go move to Turkmenistan, North Korea, or China if you don't like your "corrupt" government and see which one you prefer.

@General Reed - This is your final warning for double posting. I wouldn't otherwise care but myself and other mods have already warned you enough times.


greenlig
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 08:57
Interesting stuff...Piracy is pretty gay. In Australia it accounts for about 10 million dollars in sales every year, and I know from working in the Australian game dev industry that every dollar is crucial. The smaller dev companies over here (of which there are many), suffer greatly from piracy. Its bad enough that royalties are rarely paid by publishers, let alone having $10 million flogged by n00bs. Puzzle Quest sold over a million copies in mid 2007, and the developer still isn't, and wont be, getting any royalties. Piracy hurts the industry in Australia at least, and these are the small indie companies we are meant to 'love'.

Fact of the matter is, babe broke law, babe faced fine. Anyone who thinks that her kid needed a game to be happy needs to be slapped with a large trout. Buy the kid a soccer ball for 5 bucks and push him out the door.

Greenlig

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Bejasc3D
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 09:19
Maybe if they lowered their prices, or raised their availability, Piracy wouldnt be a problem ?

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 11:23
Quote: "Just shows how corrupt government is, In any country"


Enforcing piracy laws is corrupt? It's quite the opposite, it shows the government isn't bending rules for specific people and playing favourite.

Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 12:28
I've downloaded a few games myself, but only because the company has already gone bust and they don't actually make the game any more. (System Shock 1, anyone?) I think that if a game is unavailable by other means, then getting it via a free download is okay. It is true that I could have bought it second-hand eg. from ebay, but then the devs and the publishers would have got no money from me anyway.

I really don't like it when people pirate newly released games, though. Crysis, BioShock, probably Fallout 3 as well - these are developers who have gone out of their way either to make the PC version more than a dull port, or have actually shunned the console market altogether. And their reward is that massive numbers of people end up pirating their game. I'm just worried that it's going to kill creativity because, with lower returns due to piracy, publishers are going to want to go with stuff that works and is low-risk. (ie. more nazi shooters, zombie hackers and alien blasters).

Quote: "Here's an example; When BioWare made Mass Effect, it was published by Microsoft, and BioWare had promised to everyone who bought the game that it would remain Xbox 360 exclusive. But then EA came and offered to buy BioWare, and the second that BioWare accepted, they announced that they were currently in production with a PC version of the game. But maybe that's just common sense, I mean, it's obvious that Microsoft wanted to make it Xbox exclusive, because they own Xbox, whereas EA supports pretty much every format (correct me if I'm wrong)."

I'm not sure how this is a problem. People who own an Xbox can get it on Xbox. People who don't but who own a PC can get it on PC, which is an improvement. Microsoft owns both Xbox and Windows so it doesn't lose out.
I used to loathe EA, but recently they do seem to have gone in a more interesting, creative direction. Good on 'em, I say.

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General Reed
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 13:32
[quote]Companies have a right to decide to make a playable demo so you can try the game out for free. If they don't, it's up to you to do your own research or rent the game first.[quote]
And i agree, But if they don't, they should not be surprised when their games are pirated at first, Rather than bought.

[quote]If you're poor and you get caught with crack, should you not get charged?[\quote]
Of course not but:
1. Since when did a bunch of idiots, Who obviosuly think about nothing but their own financial gain, Decide what an individual person should and should not consume. It does not harm anyone else, Just looses the government profit.
2. Since the law is there, Why cant the governement just charge tax or something on the drug? Rather than employ a hefty fine.
I, myself do not smoke any type of toxicant, and dont intend to, But it should still be up to the individual person weather or not heshe want to use a certain intoxicant.

[quote]Because then nobody would think twice about just pirating a game if their only penalty was to pay for it. Punishment is meant as a deterrent. The justice system doesn't charge people different amounts depending on their income.[\quote]
Good point, But Do you really think piracy will stop from this?

[quote]Then go move to Turkmenistan, North Korea, or China if you don't like your "corrupt" government and see which one you prefer.[\quote]
Lol, Dude, Incase you did not notice, I think the government system is BS altogether. We need high class technology, Not, well dressed up dumb asses, to lead us into war for their own goddamn gain.

[quote]This is your final warning for double posting. I wouldn't otherwise care but myself and other mods have already warned you enough times. [\quote]
Ok, Fine. I really don't see what the big deal is. Like does it take up more room on the server? Or are you just being picky. FYI, You are the only mod on the entire board since ive been here, Who has warned me about double posting

[quote]Enforcing piracy laws is corrupt? It's quite the opposite, it shows the government isn't bending rules for specific people and playing favourite.[\quote]
Nope, The way the governement then uses the fine money for "Neccesery war efforts" is corrupt. Im sorry, But anyone who actually beleive's bush was right for going to war in Iraq, is a moron. All people got from it, Was a huge war memorial. The other gain, was more blood money for bush.


What i don't understand, Is i would have thought the answer to piracy is pretty obvious. Have a few main texturesmodelssounds stored on a secure ftp server. Then when the game runs, Download those mediums from the server for use in the game, But never copy it to hard drive. Only ever keep it in memory. That way people who do pirate the game, will get an f'ed up version, with main textures like ground textures and buildings missing. It wont stop all piracy, but its probably alot more effective than the BS secureom and co.

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draknir_
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 14:32
Quote: "I've downloaded a few games myself, but only because the company has already gone bust and they don't actually make the game any more. (System Shock 1, anyone?) I think that if a game is unavailable by other means, then getting it via a free download is okay. "


This is called abandonware, and in principle I agree it should be legal to download games which are no longer available for first hand purchase.

Quote: "Wrong, you can't and shouldn't pirate their games either way."


Well that enters the field of ethics. Is it OK to wrong a company which has wronged you? Legally, definitely not: follow legal procedures. But it is arguable to be ethically acceptable. I would not do this myself, because I believe my country is relatively free of corruption at such levels.

IanM
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 15:36
Quote: "FYI, You are the only mod on the entire board since ive been here, Who has warned me about double posting"

I wouldn't have thought it necessary to ask you seeing as you have been asked over and over again not to double post.

So I'll ask you to stop double posting too. Also, no more posting about Iraq - we get your stance, we don't need to discuss it further.

Now, consider THAT your final warning!

General Reed
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 15:41
Quote: "So I'll ask you to stop double posting too. Also, no more posting about Iraq - we get your stance, we don't need to discuss it further.

Now, consider THAT your final warning!"

W/e

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bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 16:04
Quote: "They're not blaming their stock prices on piracy. Who said that?"


I thought you were implying that. I see now that your point was that EA wasn't taking money over quality. That said, I doubt I'd call any of those games "art for the sake of art". I wouldn't call any of those games innovative in their story or the topics they cover.

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AlexI
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 19:24
Quote: "Heres a great example of a rediculous law. Here in britan, you have to be 16 to have sex. But you have to be 18 to watch pornography. What kind of sence does that make? Its just insane."


lol, true. The age restriction on getting a shotgun is less than getting an airsoft gun isn't that stupid. You can get something that pretends to be real and cant harm anyone, or you can get a real shot gun and kill someone. Stupid law

SamHH
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 19:30
This is really awful, game companies shouldn't be spending their money attacking poor people who download their games. Anybody claiming that we need to make an example of this woman to prevent other people from pirating obviously doesn't realize that after all the other cases people still want to pirate media. Claiming that when we punish people severely for crimes we get less crime is just wrong. Just look at the death penalty, if your argument was true states that have the death penalty wouldn't have any murders because people would be afraid of being executed. The fact is states that have the death penalty still have murders and the reason is that people will commit crimes as a reaction and they won't be thinking about the consequences. The way we go after piracy is wrong, we don't try and make media easier to get and we put ridiculous penalties in place so we can feel like we are doing something.


bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 19:36
Quote: "You can get something that pretends to be real and cant harm anyone"


I think that alone is the reason airsoft guns aren't available to minors. You can do a lot of damage to a person with an airsoft, but kids think it's just a toy.

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General Reed
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 19:45
Quote: "lol, true. The age restriction on getting a shotgun is less than getting an airsoft gun isn't that stupid. You can get something that pretends to be real and cant harm anyone, or you can get a real shot gun and kill someone. Stupid law"

Lol, I didnt know that. Lol i wonder how many other stupid laws like that there are.

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Jeku
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 20:14
Quote: "That said, I doubt I'd call any of those games "art for the sake of art"."


In my opinion not all games should strive to be art for the sake of art. All games don't have to be like Braid or Rez. If it's fun to play and entertaining, that is all that's important. Every game doesn't have to be a "Van Gogh".


Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 4th Jan 2009 20:25
Quote: "What i don't understand, Is i would have thought the answer to piracy is pretty obvious. Have a few main texturesmodelssounds stored on a secure ftp server. Then when the game runs, Download those mediums from the server for use in the game, But never copy it to hard drive. Only ever keep it in memory. That way people who do pirate the game, will get an f'ed up version, with main textures like ground textures and buildings missing. It wont stop all piracy, but its probably alot more effective than the BS secureom and co."


Judging by the number of people who complained (with, I think, a level of justification) about the necessary internet checks for Spore and BioShock, would this not be an extension of that mantra of "the company is giving you privilege of playing the game! Do whatever we say, paying customers!"?

Just so I don't start a flamewar - DDRM via internet checks is a fuzzy area and I'm not sure how I stand on it. But the level that General Reed suggested sounds a little extreme. I mean, my internet is a little unreliable and occasionally it won't work for a few days - what if my game arrives in that time? And what if, at some point in the future, the company goes bust? Can I no longer play that game because the servers no longer exist? At least the checks in BioShock and so on can be hypothetically removed with a patch.

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