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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] E3 Friday

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Gir
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Posted: 26th May 2004 23:22
@jimmy LOL!!! hehe

I'm makin' a cake...
Peter H
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Posted: 26th May 2004 23:24 Edited at: 26th May 2004 23:26
when i get shot it's usually by boy-scout ninjas


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
Neophyte
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Posted: 27th May 2004 00:29
@Raven

"A strong suggestion here would be if you wish to actually get better at modelling rather than having alot of work just to show; you get rid of the attitude. It's why I can't stand posting in the 3D Forum anymore. Arrogant lil kids like yourself, who think just because they have a screenshot facility and a copy of 3D Canvas they're cock of the walk."

To be fair, Preston never claimed to be "cock of the walk". In fact, he deliberately put his own work down.

Quote: "
Well thats about all I've got to show. Not much, and I'm sure its easy to laugh at (everyone, at my request, get it out of your system and laugh your butts off right here so I dont have to suffer through it later), but it should show that if you have screens to show, just show em (no matter how crappy).
"


I think your reaction really isn't warranted.

"And yes Eldar i'm trying to get Sphere Harmonics working, only it is proving alot more difficult to work around the projection array as in DirectX it does it as part of the API; so been trying to remember how the heck to do it manually again "

Perhaps I could be of assistance. What is it that you are having trouble with with regards to implementing sphereical harmonics? I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to "work around the projection array".
Preston C
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Posted: 27th May 2004 01:15 Edited at: 27th May 2004 01:17
Quote: "Arrogant lil kids like yourself, who think just because they have a screenshot facility and a copy of 3D Canvas they're cock of the walk.

There is always someone better and alot of the users should learn that and use it to thier advantage like any sensible person would.
"


Hmm...lets see here...where did I say I was any good at what I do? I dont think I'm "the cock of the walk". I know many people are better than me, and I'm going along just fine with that. I would use that to my advantage, but those better people usually act like the "lil arrogant kids like myself".

Quote: "As for you Preston; kid you are far too full of yourself. I'd suggest you change your attitude; Just because you show work don't mean that somehow that is more impressive."


I never stated that my work was more impressive, now did I? Neophyte even pointed that out in my statement...

Quote: "Well thats about all I've got to show. Not much, and I'm sure its easy to laugh at (everyone, at my request, get it out of your system and laugh your butts off right here so I dont have to suffer through it later), but it should show that if you have screens to show, just show em (no matter how crappy).
"


But hey, my own goal was achieved, I got you to post some of your work (and damn fine work at that too)! Yes thats right, thats what I was aiming for this entire time, I didnt want to prove that I was better than you (which, will never happen unless some freak accident occurs where I gain supernatural powers (which will also never happen)), I didnt want to start an argument, I wanted to see some of your work since I've seen very little of it. Now go on and get us one of your other screenshots

Cheers,
Preston

[PS] If you're wondering why I didnt just email you or anything for some more pictures of your work, its just you'd probably not reply, so I had to think of some other way to do it


Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 128MB
Ian T
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Posted: 27th May 2004 02:09
It's always interesting watching reverse reverse psychology backfire and the reciptant not know it.

Dave J
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Posted: 27th May 2004 10:04
Yes, yes it is.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th May 2004 11:20
Maybe this was Reverse,reverse,reverse psychology???

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th May 2004 13:55
Erm point... i never said he thought his work was impressive, read what i wrote and use a dictonary if your having trouble understanding queens english

And what i posted was deliberately something that i'd shown the irc room and was already online; one of them could've shown it any time ... there is actually more work that has been shown off that if the irc members kept tabs you'd probably have a nice selection of development shots from models, effects and debug engine shots.

well anyways; i got totally wasted last nite ^_^ so i'm having a ::cough-cough:: mornin' after day off. As it's the guys from work who i was out with and the fact my car is currently 100miles north of me ... i was told it's cool.
but god do i feel rough as a dogs arse!

@Neophyte: I very much doubt you can help as the problem lies within DarkBASIC Professionals parser, i could work around other non-functioning aspects; but this one i can't.
Usually in a Sphere Harmonic you calculate within the sphere space the given light either per-vertex or per-pixel all the light levels from a given projection point; Kinda like BSP PVS in a way.
Once that is done displaying it can be done even through the fixxed-function pipeline (Dot3 Math) provided you can access the data.
Now I can pass vectors in, and i can pass images in; The problem I face is that vectors are just too slow, you can't populate Matrix4 Matrices in DBP (which REALLY pisses me off)...

i mean in C++ you just do
float Matrix4[4][4] = { {V1}, {V2}, {v3}, {V4} };
but there is no way to use a standard array in dbp, but the matrix4 have no poplation commands nor an exposed pointer to do it manually!
even so this is still only 4 vectors over 1.

So far the only way I can figure out to give direct access to all the data is using an image sample... only problem is it doesn't store floating data, and more over for a small level like 20,000 polygons your looking at around 2.5MB of data; When you also realise that Pixel Shader 2.0 doesn't have enough dynamic access (like 3.0 has) to actually enable you to do this outside of you main program.

So really it is all a case of, how the heck do i get the projection data from the array! Well technically a node tree but still relatively the same thing in these terms.

Gir
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Posted: 27th May 2004 13:59 Edited at: 27th May 2004 14:01
Well if you have posted lots of shots beforeon irc, instead of expecting other ppl to get them and repost, why not just stick them all in one folder and post a link to it, so ppl can have a look every now and then?

Edit: I mean you are the one who said you would have some shots for last friday was it? No point being anal about it.

I'm makin' a cake...
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 27th May 2004 16:38
I seem to remember people asking for an extra week, and Raven saying that he didn't want an extra week, he wanted to post on the same day as E3. He said he would allow people an extra week if there was a big enough number of people.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th May 2004 18:48
I did extend the date in the end.
Sorry but right now work is at a stand still until Will can figure out what is wrong with my computer.

Aparently I'm one of 18 people who downloaded the 61.32 Forceware and we're all having problems with it, hopefully by the end of the week it'll be fixxed. In the mean time i'm gonna have to try and sort out a spare HDD and get another version of Windows up and running clean of the new drivers.

Gonna be happy if these guys can just clean whatever is causing the problem so i can go back to 61.12 but ho hum.

and i did extend the date before the deadline. i was quite disappointed by the eventual turn out though considering the people who said they had things to show.
Well i've scrapped the stuff now anyways; going back to deffered shading with an Accentuated Light. Not the same but right now i don't care.

Powersoft
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Posted: 27th May 2004 20:26
good ol' excuses

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
If we were supposed to sing we would look like Kylie...
Chris K
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Posted: 27th May 2004 22:15
You do seem to have a lot of problems with your computer.
Didn't you wipe it a few days ago?
walaber
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Posted: 28th May 2004 08:32
you were dissappointed that other people didn't show off their work???

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
The Big Babou
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Posted: 28th May 2004 17:50
lol

I know the real reason, why raven had nothing to show. he had no time for working on his game/thing, because he had to write some documents for nVidia. they were shown at a "conference call for members of the press".

take a look here (focus on the pictures starting at post 3) : http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=6b4efb69e8b46d578b44db3b1e3625db&threadid=144744&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

... they call it a royale with cheese ...
Dave J
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Posted: 28th May 2004 18:00
That guy double-posted 10 times in a row!! BAN HIM!!!!!!


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Ian T
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Posted: 28th May 2004 18:02
What a bunch of internal company crap you'd think they could be hoenst even in there own offices. Hehehe...

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th May 2004 20:49
Actually currently there is a discussion going on in the forums about this; although a few members refuse to believe what ATi are doing, some of us are actually wondering if what they're doing is constituted as cheating or genius.

The arguments go both ways. Not that it matters because the 6-Series at it's retail clocks is quite noticably faster than the X800;
but from developers point of view, does using 16bit floating point calculations within a 24bit colour space and using a 128bit register space (escentially doubling pixel shader operation speeds), constitute as a cheat or a clever design feature?

Also the question of the Colour quality loss.
It is like chooseing between the DirectX Texture formats;

There is no actual data loss, the only loss is colour wise in Radeon stuff looks more washed out in it's palettes. So artists aren't getting the results they'd expect exactly; however with the digital vibrance in play that ATi use it relatively compensates;

I mean what do you guys think?
If anyone wants I can post the entire explaination of what is going on; and i know some will be like 'ATi don't cheat, burn the heathen' but from everything i've shown in the developer forums some people don't want to see what is right infront of thier faces.

Like ATi Radeons output 24/32/48/64/128bit Colour Ranges, they accept 64/128bit Floating Point Images, and they have 128bit Colour Space.
As they don't even support for the formats it can use natively, why would ATi use 96bit Registers? It just painly makes no damn sense!!
It further makes no sense to then have a 32bit ZDepth Buffer; if your colour range is 24bit MAX!!
Why would you deliberately make a card processor that has to recalculate the standard formats?!

There are so many inconsistancies, like how come the Radeon can only push around half the pixels per clock as the Geforce; but pixel operations are double the speed!?!

It's like the F-Buffer which allows infinite Shader programs... that's complete bull, it doesn't; it buffers the max shader routine in the video ram than moves it across which although decreases latency from the main ram by around 80%, it still means that running longer shader programs means that Radeons hang even loop when they have to load the next pixel buffer instruction set.

I'm not having a go here, these are legitimate questions which ATi has actually refused outright to answer stating that 'information on how the technology used with in our hardware is prohibited'...
I don't give a damn what they're doing to gain speed, i just give a damn that what i program up in FX Composer or something is actually going to appear exactly how I want it to at the other end.

Ian T
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Posted: 28th May 2004 21:42 Edited at: 28th May 2004 21:43
The majority of all reviews have favored every ATI card over its nVidia competitor for years. Internal statistics aside, the simple fact is that the x800 line runs faster and better than the 6000 line. Calling the x800 an 'act of desperation' when it is, in truth, just the icing on the cake of a long line of great cards from ATi is purely ridiculous.

The primary argument against the x800 is also flawed. Pixel shader 3.0 is certainly important, but the earliest game that features heavy use of it is from two to three years off. Four to six product lines away!

So the simple fact is that ATi's cards are better for developers and gamers alike, as they have for three years. It's hard to believe nVidia's kidding themselves about this, they know it as well as anyone. If you ask me, it's like the ridiculous hype and half-truths 3dfx flaunted about their last card before nVidia drove them out of business with superior cards-- but fate's against nVidia now.

The Big Babou
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Posted: 28th May 2004 22:47
no no no, i didn't want to see things go off topic that far, nor i wanted to turn everthing towards an ati vs nvidia war (as it was in the forum, where those pictures are, 27 pages since may 25th). i tried to make a joke, it wasn't funny so let's forget it and go back to everyone showing their hidden work and bothering raven to do so. approximately 70% done, here it goes:


max rendering, 3d background ingame


ingame, still without 3d background

i won't tell what it is, perhaps someone can guess

... they call it a royale with cheese ...
Peter H
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Posted: 28th May 2004 23:22
board game?


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
The Big Babou
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Posted: 28th May 2004 23:35
yes, which

... they call it a royale with cheese ...
Peter H
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Posted: 28th May 2004 23:38
hhhmmmm...life?
(random guess )


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
The Big Babou
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Posted: 28th May 2004 23:39
no, but take a closer look at the hud at the bottom of the 2nd screenshot, i just saw it

... they call it a royale with cheese ...
Peter H
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Posted: 28th May 2004 23:41
monopoly?...

hotel?(ok so that's really random )


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
The Big Babou
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Posted: 28th May 2004 23:46
hotel is right, if that really was a random guess, i have to change those models/graphics

... they call it a royale with cheese ...
Peter H
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Posted: 29th May 2004 00:01
the graphics are fine! i've never played the game(hotel) before!

i just said hotel becuase it was in the lower left corner(not becuase i've played the board game )


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 29th May 2004 00:04
What is Hotel? Looks good anyway! i'm making a Monopoly type game as well.

The Big Babou
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Posted: 29th May 2004 00:14 Edited at: 29th May 2004 00:19
when i'm finished, should still take a month or so, you can play hotel for the first time . it's already playable, but i still have to do the starting menu, options, some better graphics(cube mapping ...), language and so on

hotel is a monopoly style game, you buy hotels and try to add buildings and entries, if someone is on an entry, he has to pay. i tried to keep as close as possible to the original. if some newbie reads this: though it was a fairly simple project, it tought myself very much. modelling, texturing and of course programming in DBP

... they call it a royale with cheese ...
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th May 2004 03:00
i was gonna say Monopoly or Game of Life...

Dave J
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Posted: 29th May 2004 05:09
Quote: "i won't tell what it is, perhaps someone can guess"


Hotels!! I own that board game, used to have a lot of fun playing it as a child. Used to get very pissed off when my brother always bought The President (bottom left in the screenshot) while I kept getting sucked into Australia's 'Boomerang' hotel (seen bottom right).

P.S. The board game is actually the plural 'Hotels', not that it matters though.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 29th May 2004 14:17
Make sure that Hotel has a 1 player v's Computer setup. I want to play this!

Jimmy
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Posted: 31st May 2004 06:23
Wooo, this almost fell off the page

*PHEW*

----

http://www.dbspot.com/ - Free website hosting. Fast and reliable... probably.
CattleRustler
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Posted: 31st May 2004 08:00
what a tool



* DBP_NETLIB_v1.2 - NOW WITH VARIABLE WATCHER! * Click Logo
Dave J
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Posted: 31st May 2004 10:52
Quote: "Wooo, this almost fell off the page

*PHEW* "


It seems this is one thread that's not going to die down without Raven showing a screenshot.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Chris K
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Posted: 31st May 2004 10:54
Raven, this is a joke now.

You claimed to be in the process of uploading screenshots weeks ago.

Upload some now, or admit you have nothing worth showing.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st May 2004 23:00
:: shrugs :: i'll upload when i'm good and ready

ReD_eYe
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 00:02


Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 00:49
Here's an idea.
Tell us why you were ready to upload a load of screenshots two weeks ago but you're not now.
Ian T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 02:22
He's not going to.

Isn't it funny how very, very alike Robert Lettan and Derek Smart are? Both love boasting about everything they've done, but hardly ever have anything to show for it (the difference is Smart suceeded in finishing two rather abysmal games); they both get involved in huge flamewars all the time even though they bill themselves as professional game designers; and they're both community laughingstocks, although both refuse to admit it.

This is a page about why Derek Smart acts like Derek Smart. It rather accuratly describes Raven too. I was amazed when i first read it. http://www.werewolves.org/~follies/why.html

Gir
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 03:10
So therefore Raven Does not actually exist? Except in our reflection and Flaming

I'm makin' a cake...
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 05:38
lol, exactly GIR i'm like... some glitch in the system.
:: shrugs :: E3 is long over, so really; you can be as restless as you like now, i don't care. i missed my deadline so fudge it, i'll release stuff when i'm good and ready to.

As i've explained already to David this week, i'm not good at making tools - so right now everything is being done by hand, this takes TIME.
I work 50hrs a week... something I do not have an abundance of is time;

Hell the ONLY god damn reason i'm up at this stupid hour of the nite is to get more work done on this stupid personal project.
I have work in around 4hrs time.

So ya know, excuse me if this sounds like i'm getting a lil more than cheesed off but quite frankly i am!!
I know most of you are the MTV 5 second attention span generation; but damn well be patient, else the only people who will see screenshots are the IRC people.

Provided that damn rodent isn't in there.

Night Giant
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 08:24
Raven, there is a point you have sorely missed. You call them the impatient "MTV 5 second attention span" generation. They are not impatient, they just expect to recieve what they are promised, perhaps that is ignorant, perhaps not. The fact is, you promised screenshots about three weeks ago, and then two weeks ago, and now you say you will release them when you are "good and ready". When you miss deadlines you don't just shrug and say "screw it, i'll just be lazy and not care", that is not a very professional attitude, my friend. I must say, I don't think you are impressing anybody by trying to sound superior and professional.

oh, wow. insignificantpunks.cjb.net.
no: website for progs yet.
Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 10:57
I think you missed this part of my post

Quote: "Tell us why you were ready to upload a load of screenshots two weeks ago but you're not now. "
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 12:57
You were uploading when you got a virus, so what has all this 50 hrs work got to do with it? Apparently the work is already done. You said you have a dog that runs into a door, some movie stuff, and some screenshots. You said you have a new clothing system. You said that people already know what you are making, and it's very exciting. You said that you could have it all ready in about 2 days work for E3 Friday. Now you about-turn and change the whole situation. All of a sudden there is so much work to do on the project that people will have to be patient. All of a sudden your job is not allowing you enough time to get anything ready. It sounds like your game was written only inside your head, like one of those newbies that says he has the ultimate RPG.

Ian T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 17:46
On top of that, he forgot the first time that the only level he'd made wasn't textured ... d'oh!

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 21:47
It'll be done when it's done!

end of story ...

Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 21:50
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SCREENSHOTS YOU WERE UPLOADING??????
Ian T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 21:51
Better put, it'll be done sometime after you actually get around to starting it .

It was pretty petty of you to make this whole E3 Friday big deal when you knew full well you wouldn't have anything to show. And then lie about the screenshots and movie and demo.



empty
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 21:57
Quote: "Better put, it'll be done sometime after you actually get around to starting it "

Or better put, it won't be done.

Play Nice! Play Basic!

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