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Geek Culture / Religion (Satanism for me) *NO PRERSONAL ATTACKS HERE*

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 09:53
I became one because it made senseI stopped Christianity because I decided it just wasn't for me. I disagreed with a lot of things, and, btw, it's not if you come in our lair we'll destroy youit's if you come into out home and become very irratible and rude that we can treat you cruelly. There's a difference

And yes, it DOES help bring peace. Instead of trying to love one another, we acknowledge we have the right to hate people. There's nothing wrong with desires (as in you want to have sex with some girl/guy you've just seen). We don't make wars with people because of their religionWe don't have an inquisition or a holocaust reserved for Christians (actually, there is a site that does have something like that in mind, but true Satanism isn't about killing Christians). We don't become one to look cool. More often then not we're the outcasts of society

WWSD?
Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 09:56
Yes, Kain, I am actually pretty familiar with that site.

You'll be surprised at how many books and how many sites have been published with the sole intent of degrading our religion and maliciously, with no regard for truth. Mostly because we believe things that nobody else does. For instance, we believe in modern day revelation, so if we practice things that are not in the Bible everyone gets their panties in a knot and says "Not in the Bible! Not in the Bible! It's WRONG WRONG WRONG!". Thus employing themselves on a quest to convince every mormon of how delusional we are, even if it takes a dash of slander to do so.

This same reason contributed to the persecution of the early mormons. The main reason is said to have been the fact that they were detrimental to the economies of the states they lived in. They farmed their own crops and some wouldn't buy from or sell to anyone that was not of the faith. Also, it was such a large group that the possible amount of political influence scared the people of the state. They had the largest city in Illinois before they were kicked out. Lastly, the practice of polygamy was seen as unethical and nobody wanted it anywhere near them.

So, naturally they're going to try to take out the leader of this group in hopes that they'll all just give up and go home. They put him and the mormon city leaders in jail and he and his brother were killed while in the jail by a mob of 100+ men.

Taken from http://www.lds.org/placestovisit/location/0,10634,1844-1-1-1,00.html on why they were put in jail.

Quote: "Trouble for Latter-day Saints in Nauvoo began when the Nauvoo city council issued orders to destroy a newspaper press that had printed criticisms against the Church. This act angered the newspaper's supporters and neighboring citizens. Those in opposition rioted in the streets of Nauvoo in protest of the act. City council members, including the Prophet Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum, were arrested for instigating a riot. To bring calm, Governor Thomas Ford promised the council members full protection if they would submit to arrest and go to Carthage for a trial. Notwithstanding the promise of protection, Joseph Smith felt that he was "going like a lamb to the slaughter."

The 16 council members arrived at Carthage on 24 June 1844. The next day they were released on bail, but Joseph and Hyrum Smith were detained after being falsely charged with treason, a charge stemming from their activating the Nauvoo Legion to protect the citizens of Nauvoo. Although only Joseph and Hyrum were under arrest, others remained with them in the jail.

On 27 June 1844, four men were held in the jail's upper bedroom: Joseph, Hyrum, John Taylor, and Dr. Willard Richards. They noticed a large group of men with disguised faces and guns rush toward the jail. The four men tried to hold the door against the mob, but Hyrum was immediately shot and killed. The mob forced the door open just as Joseph turned to leap out of the window, perhaps to distract attention from his friends. He was shot twice in the back and twice in the chest as he fell from the second-story window. John Taylor was shot four times but miraculously survived. Willard Richards escaped without even a hole in his clothing. The Saints in Nauvoo grieved the loss of Joseph and Hyrum but remained at Nauvoo for almost two more years."


I've done my own research and that's as true of an account as any.

As for putting a paper bag on his head and spinning until he received inspiration, that kind of a statement doesn't deserve my time and effort so I'll just take that as a personal attack on an important figure in my religion and get over it.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 10:11
Tomy: Good and Evil are only defined by what you believe. So a Christian receives his good and evil from the Bible. They believe it to be the word of the Lord. The Lord says not to kill. So killing is evil. He says to love thy neighbor. So love is good. If there is no afterlife and the purpose in life is self illumination, then there is no purpose in life. Why do anything if when you're dead there's nothing to show for it. You no longer have memory of those things, you don't exist. You may as well just kill yourself now, it makes no difference. But if there IS an afterlife and there IS a God, then I'd rather die with a life of devotion to them.

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Guhill The friendly one
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 10:16
Quote: "You're not coming in heaven for free! That's NOT christianity.
Actually christianity is one of those religions who is exactly the way you just described it.

Jesus only died on the cross to give us the possiblity to come into heaven, tho you're not coming in for free. ONLY the "good" ones come into the heaven, while the "bad" ones are going to hell."


Wrong, let a Christian explain Christianity. Jesus died for our sins, so if we do sin, we don't have to go to hell. The only thing we have to do to get to heaven is believe that Jesus died for us, that's all, no strings attached, no extra BS.

Good Will To All,
Guhill The Anti Hate

Without hating, this world would be perfect.
Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 10:25
That's funny Guhill, because a Christian once told me I'd go to hell for my beliefs. Yet, I believe that Christ died for us. But still, because a practice of my religion didn't conform to the Bible, I was going to be damned. It's these kind of hypocracies that make me try to avoid classifying myself as a Christian.

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 10:42
Guhill, that's wrongEven if I was a Christian, there would still be a big flaw in it: Satan believe Jesus dies for our sins

WWSD?
Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 10:47
Exactly Ozzum, that's why my religion is right

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 10:51
@Jimmy lol! such logic

WWSD?
Guhill The friendly one
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:13
@Jimmy and Ozzum : Don't flame my religion, I haven't flamed yours. I'm just defining mine. Please, I can't stand hatred, arguments, war, etc...

Without hating, this world would be perfect.
Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:15
Would you like a tissue? Or perhaps some vicks vaporub for your hiney?

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Guhill The friendly one
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:17
roffcmfao

Without hating, this world would be perfect.
Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:21
I'm not flaming your religionI just said that, according to Christianity, you must WORSHIP Jesus, not just believe in him

WWSD?
Guhill The friendly one
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:26
Not true, we haven't gone to church in over half a year, and we're not going to hell.

Yo, Magellan Studios, help me out a little here.

Without hating, this world would be perfect.
Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:29
That certainly would be convenient huh Guhill

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Guhill The friendly one
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:31
Yeah, he could be like my translator, I talk in simple terms and he explains it in a deep and moving way for more complex beings so people understand the point I'm trying to put down instead of trying to interpret my simple ways of speach.

Without hating, this world would be perfect.
Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:32
do you pray to him? that's worship.

WWSD?
Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:33
No, Guhill, I was referring to this:

"Not true, we haven't gone to church in over half a year, and we're not going to hell."

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Guhill The friendly one
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:35
@Ozzum : Yeah, like when I was playing Drew Cameron's "Dumbo" game I was praying that I would be able to make it in the parachute and I did. However... once I jumped out of the parachute I missed the cloud and fell to my death.

Without hating, this world would be perfect.
Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:37
well, it says you must worship him, not merely believe in him

WWSD?
Guhill The friendly one
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 11:39
@Ozzum : You said must, I think you're mixing that up with should.

Without hating, this world would be perfect.
Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 12:12
Read the Bible Guhill, you must

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 12:14
you MUST!

WWSD?
Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 12:22
MMMMMMMUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTTT

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JoelJ
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 15:08
ahem: 10 commandments: http://scriptures.lds.org/ex/20 important part of ALL chritian religions if im not mistaken.

if you honestly believe that you are automattically saved because Christ died for us, you are sadly mistaken, and it is sad to me people would take something so important in our eternal salvation, and make light of it and abuse it in such a way. If that were true, no one would do anything right, and life would be utter chaos, and the most of evil people would get something they dont deserve, eternal life, or as you guys understand it, access beyond heavins gates. Satan would have no reason to try and tempt us, his mission would be already failed, because everyone is saved.

I could go on for ever, but im going to stop :p

anyone sick of this image yet?
Tomy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 22:37 Edited at: 13th Jul 2004 22:59
Quote: "Wrong, let a Christian explain Christianity. Jesus died for our sins, so if we do sin, we don't have to go to hell. The only thing we have to do to get to heaven is believe that Jesus died for us, that's all, no strings attached, no extra BS.

Good Will To All,
Guhill The Anti Hate
"


WRONG!!!
Are you catholic or protestant?
In catholicism you only come to heaven when you were good and all your signs are forgiven.
Whether you led a good life or not is decided in the purgatory.
You know i was christian so i know what's it about!
And it's unbelievable how protestant expand everything to what you just said.
It certainly wasn't Luther's intention that you can lead whatever life you want and as long as you believe in Jesus you'll come to heaven.

Quote: "
Tomy: Good and Evil are only defined by what you believe. So a Christian receives his good and evil from the Bible. They believe it to be the word of the Lord. The Lord says not to kill. So killing is evil. He says to love thy neighbor. So love is good. If there is no afterlife and the purpose in life is self illumination, then there is no purpose in life. Why do anything if when you're dead there's nothing to show for it. You no longer have memory of those things, you don't exist. You may as well just kill yourself now, it makes no difference. But if there IS an afterlife and there IS a God, then I'd rather die with a life of devotion to them.
"


Oh sorry it wasn't my intention to say that there's nothing after life, i just wanted to say that you shouldn't only think about what's after death, you should rather think about what's now.
I don't believe that i'm nothing after life btw

EDIT:

I agree with Darwin


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actarus
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 22:52
It is hard for anyone to conceive that you will just...well stop being.

It's just unimaginable(not saying it's not the case).

BlackBird thinks he owns the sky,
But he can't look me in the eye,
-Andy Bell
Neil19533
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 00:16
your religions were wrote to show people the best way to live there lives. and so you can get a reward if your good. so theres no point in arguing over the small print of the religion and go out and figure your own way to lead your life and not follow some ancient book which shouldnt apply today as we have a modern way to live are lives and its called the law.

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
Ian T
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 00:28
Above post is one of the saddest messes I've ever seen. There was law before Christianity buddy, there's been law since the cavemen decided they'd beat up any other caveman who decided to take more food than he should have, that doesn't mean anything. I'd like to see any evidence that there's no point to arguing over the small print of something if it's the small print that might take you to heaven or damn you (not that I personally believe that). Use your head before stepping into a debate please


Shooting for Eternium Man.
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 00:48
I once met a pastor that told me that he didn't believe in Hell. He said that in his opinion, hell was something created by the churches. How could a God that is so GOOD, damn someone eternally? What if hell is having to face God with all of the times that you let him down during your life. All of the times that he had presented himself to you and you ignored it? Him showing you all of the gifts that he gave you yet you never even agnoliged him for them?
The guilt that you would feel would be hell.

I'm not sure if I agree with him or not. Talking to him really helped enforce a couple of beliefs that I do have though:
-We don't have to know the answers. We can not comprehend them and we are not meant to. Keep an open mind to all the information that you have in front of you. Live a good life!

EZrotate!
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Jimmy
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 02:35
Amen Brotha!

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AluminumPork
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 03:03 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 03:04
Question:

I'm not Christian, and I don't believe in any god what-so-ever. So since I don't believe that Jesus died for our sins (as I'm not Christian). So since I don't believe he did, and I don't believe in hell or heaven, and I don't goto church (for myself at least) and I don't pray.

Since I am all of the above, am I in a Christians mind going to hell?
Am I in a Christians mind a bad person who must be "saved"?

Argh, I need to fix my sig.

P4 2.4Ghz HT, 512MB RAM, ATI Radeon 9600 128MB, 19" Viewsonic, 80GB HD

Ian T
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 03:48
Offhand I can't think of any Christians who would say you wouldn't be saved. But it's possible some of them might think you'd go to purgatory awaiting judgement day. Not sure.


Shooting for Eternium Man.
Peter H
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 03:54 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 04:06
@lord ozzum-
Quote: "If your God is merciful, then why does he condemn people to Hell if they don't believe? That's not mercy""

becuase he's also just...if he just said "oh it doesn't matter that you've sinned and done everything wrong i don't care i wan't you in heaven!" it would be against the definition of his character...(would you say a judge is just if he let a murderer go free in the streets?) god is not some whishy washy god he is all powerfull and he rules everything...but at the same time he loves us so he does everything possible(short of being "un-just") to save us.

the point is is that you don't have to go to hell you can just accept christ as your savior instead!

@jimmy- yes i know some christians "talk the talk but don't walk the walk" and this does not make christianity bad it just makes them bad

when you are saved it does not mean you instantly lose all your bad habits... that comes through time and the help of god.

Quote: "Question:

I'm not Christian, and I don't believe in any god what-so-ever. So since I don't believe that Jesus died for our sins (as I'm not Christian). So since I don't believe he did, and I don't believe in hell or heaven, and I don't goto church (for myself at least) and I don't pray.

Since I am all of the above, am I in a Christians mind going to hell?
Am I in a Christians mind a bad person who must be "saved"?
"

yes you are going to hell unless you are saved...becuase everybody is guilty of at least one sin(and most likely thousands more...) and the wages of even one tiny sin is Death.

BTW going to church does not make you saved...it's a good thing but it doesn't save you at all. what saves you is this...

Accepting Christ as your saviour and believing in him


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
ReD_eYe
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 04:02
So do you have to have no sins to go to heaven?
Quote: "and the wages of even one tiny sin is Death"

if so, that quote can't be true, cos everyone dies, so that means noone is in heaven???

Peter H
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 04:07
@red_eye-no the wages are death BUT if you accept christ as your saviour then he takes the punishment for you(therefore you don't go to hell)


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 04:10
Quote: "yes you are going to hell unless you are saved...becuase everybody is guilty of at least one sin(and most likely thousands more...)"

So, basicly, if someone stole something from someone, and used it to save thousands of people, would that mean they are going to hell?

Hello
Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 04:13
Quote: "@red_eye-no the wages are death BUT if you accept christ as your saviour then he takes the punishment for you(therefore you don\'t go to hell)"

Sounds like bull$hit to me

Hello
JoelJ
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 04:35
@Magellan Studios:
Quote: "yes you are going to hell unless you are saved...becuase everybody is guilty of at least one sin(and most likely thousands more...) and the wages of even one tiny sin is Death."


who gives you the right to damn people to hell?

anyone sick of this image yet?
Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 04:37
@Mouse: Nice one

@Magellan Studios: Yes, but a judge isn't meant to be all merciful. God is. So, the judge shouldn't be all merciful. He shouldn't have to. The promise of good to him is a dime a dozen.

WWSD?
JoelJ
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 04:50
God is just, Christ is the judge and merciful

anyone sick of this image yet?
HZence
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 05:32
Quote: "his mission would be already failed"


If Christianity is true, then no matter what, Satan has failed, he's just in denial. This is all a big game to him and god.


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HZence
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 05:33
Quote: "But it's possible some of them might think you'd go to purgatory awaiting judgement day. Not sure."


Purgatory is Catholicism.


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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 05:44
Okay. I don't really know much about it actually .


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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 05:52
they also have limbo. Catholicism is vastly different from most other denominations

WWSD?
Tomy
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 05:57
Quote: "Purgatory is Catholicism."


Catholicism is christianity


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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 06:04
Quote: "Quote: "Purgatory is Catholicism."

Catholicism is christianity "


Catholicism is a certain type of Christianity. It is only one type.


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Jimmy
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 06:09
Catholicism is barely Christianity... but that's Jimmy's opinion

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Rob K
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 06:27 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 06:31
Quote: " Catholicism is barely Christianity... but that's Jimmy's opinion"


You must be joking! - The world leader of the Christian faith (ie. the Pope) is a Catholic.

I've just had a slightly random thought - everyone knows about Jesus (like many atheists, I see him as an evangelist), but who was his publicist? He could have earned an absolute fortunate today


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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 06:29
He's only the world leading of the Christian faith according to the Catholics , so isn't that sort of a mute argument? I mean along with the mormons not liking Catholicism much, the Protestants tend to think that the Pope is the devil incarnate/the antichrist.


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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 06:30
yes, but Catholicism is vastly different from all of the other denominations6_6

WWSD?

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