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Geek Culture / Sony--- just shameless

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Zappo
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Posted: 16th Jan 2007 11:29
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Mmmm. I think the fact that Gabe Newell signed the worlds biggest 'in-game advertising' contract recently for Counter Strike, would give the impression he is led more by money than the good of the games industry.
Although some in-game advertising can help make a game more real, it has some bitter concequences... but thats for another discussion.
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 16th Jan 2007 11:56
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Quote: "What I'm talking about is someone who wants a PS3 finds out Sony commits an immoral act, then decides not to purchase a PS3 from them soley based on how they were acting. That's an example of a bad economic decision."


No it's an example of a person who has a moral conviction not to deal with a shady company. Company A may be the best, and heck most inexpensive, company to produce Product Z, but if Company A conducts their buisness in an immoral manner a consumer has every right not to deal with that company, its not a bad economic decision it's standing up for what's right.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 16th Jan 2007 13:23 Edited at: 16th Jan 2007 13:29
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Quote: "Nintendo have promised to make sure that the entire library of over 1,000,000 Nintendo games are available by the first anniversary to download."




I don't see what the point is in arguing that the ps3 and the psp are right at the heels of the Wii and DS... The difference in sales and more so in profit is staggering on ever level. Trying to say the Wii is going to lose its popularity anytime soon is pretty arrogant. It's most likely going to go down the same road as the DS, only much more so.

And yes, we all know that the ps2 is the best selling console. However, that was the last gen. Let's move on, shale we? My only regret in not owning a ps2 is that I'll never be able to play Okami.

Sony must like to stab themselves in the back, because I can't see how they thought a whole lot of people would not question their new controller being considered a greater technological achievement than the Wiimote and nunchuck combo, or just the Wiimote alone for that matter.

I think it makes a huge difference to the people who pay attention how a company potays itself. If Nintendo made as many aweful claims about the Wii as Sony did about the ps3, I don't think I'd want to buy a Wii, or have even considered it. The only reason I view the 360 over the ps3 really is because I haven't heard so many lies about it from Microsoft. Honesty goes a long way.

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Deathead
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Posted: 16th Jan 2007 16:53
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Sony is good at making Portables though the PSP is Good Graphics and runs the proper internet. And also they have put a new thing in the psp version 3.03 remote play which is when you play a racing game your PSP can become the cars wing mirror!!!

But God Help Sony if Microsoft brings out a portable games console!!

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Chris K
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Posted: 16th Jan 2007 16:57
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Early reports of remote play say it is terrible quality and the sound is out of sync with the video.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 16th Jan 2007 22:14 Edited at: 16th Jan 2007 22:23
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Quote: "Sony is good at making Portables though the PSP is Good Graphics and runs the proper internet. And also they have put a new thing in the psp version 3.03 remote play which is when you play a racing game your PSP can become the cars wing mirror!!!
"

So? That doesn't effect the fact that the DS is a far better system with far better games, and is completely dominating the psp in sales.

Quote: "But God Help Sony if Microsoft brings out a portable games console!!"

g-d help Sony if Nintendo brings out a portable... oh, wait.

Just because the psp is a good system doesn't mean it's the best. Not even close, really. Sony has done fairly well though, especialy considering they went up against Nintendo, which is essentially the handheld making guru. I'd rate the likelyhood that the psp will as some point be more popular than the ds at... 5%


Edit: you realize, that the psp is much closer than your tv, so every time you change what your looking at, you'll have to refocus, which could cost you a race, and as a rule of thumb lessens the suspension of disbelief. The ds doesn't suffer from this because the screens are the same distance from your eyes.
I wonder how Nintendo is planning to abu- I mean, "use" ds-wii connectivity. So far, the only thing I've seen that works is transferring content.

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Krilik
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 06:34
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Quote: "No it's an example of a person who has a moral conviction not to deal with a shady company. Company A may be the best, and heck most inexpensive, company to produce Product Z, but if Company A conducts their buisness in an immoral manner a consumer has every right not to deal with that company, its not a bad economic decision it's standing up for what's right."


No, its bad economy. You don't exchange moral and immoral actions when you buy a product from someone. Assuming that you do is irrational. All industries would sit in a standstill because of moral differences. How rational do you think it would be for a company to stop using paper just because a few consumers want to save trees? Or how rational do you think it would be for a company to ship their products all over the world without using oil because a few of their consumers don't support the drilling in Alaska?

And even if they did, you didn't "stand up for what's right". All you did was nothing. Standing up for what's right requires an ACTIVE state. Not buying Sony products is so completely passive, anyone could do that, regardless of whether they care like you. Its the lamest excuse for "protest" I've ever heard. And its ridiculous to listen to people talk about it like they're doing the world a favor. Don't even get me started about Internet protest either, that's even worse.

Besides that, its probably beyond hypocritical. I couldn't guess at how many immoral people I've encountered during economic decisions, both from consumers and businesses. This happens all the time to my mom who works in retail. Customers treat her like crap for no apparent reason, and by your logic she should refuse to check them out. Just guess at who would be at fault in that situation. Or the delinquent teenager that serves you fastfood who drinks under age and probably uses a handful of drugs. Those are okay though because you're unaware of it. I don't accept this notion of "Moral justice is at my leisure". And the things Sony has done haven't even been close to the pinnacle of "bad", but you're upset with them for providing luxuries to people who probably don't deserve it.
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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 06:54
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Quote: "I think the fact that Gabe Newell signed the worlds biggest 'in-game advertising' contract recently for Counter Strike, would give the impression he is led more by money than the good of the games industry."


Explain to me why there *shouldn't* be in-game advertising on a "free" online game? I'm dying to know.

Quote: "Sony is good at making Portables though the PSP is Good Graphics and runs the proper internet."


The "proper" internet. What does that mean?

Quote: "And also they have put a new thing in the psp version 3.03 remote play which is when you play a racing game your PSP can become the cars wing mirror!!!"


Maybe 10 people will try that. I honestly can't see that being in any way fun.

The PSP is basically a crapped-down PS2-lite. There are only a few games of redeeming value, and Sony has felt the brunt of the UMD medium failure.

Oh, and buy Madden 08 PSP

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 13:34 Edited at: 17th Jan 2007 13:36
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Quote: "How rational do you think it would be for a company to stop using paper just because a few consumers want to save trees?"


Well the CONSUMER has a right not to buy the product, they can always purchase recyled paper if they choose. Each person chooses their own battles.

Quote: "Standing up for what's right requires an ACTIVE state."

Tell that to Ghandi.

sometimes not doing something is the loudest statement. Buying a ps3 and complaining about it is not as strong a statement as not buying it in the first place.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
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Zappo
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 14:09 Edited at: 17th Jan 2007 14:10
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Quote: "Explain to me why there *shouldn't* be in-game advertising on a "free" online game? I'm dying to know."

Free? It isn't free. The whole notion of advertising in 'paid' video games opens up a can of worms. Advertisers would want to control how their image is portrayed and therefore have a say in where in the game (and possible for how long) their images are shown. For example, they may object to some terrorists driving a truck with their logo on the side, or that their soft drink machines explode with a single bullet shot, or that their brand of car crashes easier than a competitors. It wouldn't be long before the development of new games is dependent on the funding from advertisers which would also limit what new games are produced. For example, who could possibly sponser a game set in the middle ages? You couldn't have bill boards with Amazon on them or Pepsi emblems on a knights armour. Goodbye realism. Even games set in WW2 would be very limited as to what could be advertised, e.g. no new Ford cars on billboards or using your Nokia mobile to call for new troops. This would start to dictate the genres of games made, or they just wouldn't be funded.
Quote: "The "proper" internet. What does that mean?"

I think he means a proper browser. The one on the DS is pretty terrible to be honest.
Quote: "Maybe 10 people will try that. I honestly can't see that being in any way fun."

The technology could be useful for other things though. There have been discussions before about removing HUD's from games to make them more realistic. If you moved your radar, ammo counters etc. to your PSP with audible warnings I can see it being very cool. Or perhaps a full map of the level, or for two player games (e.g. the main player control the vehicle while someone on the PSP controls the guns). It has potential.
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Deathead
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 14:20 Edited at: 17th Jan 2007 14:24
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@ bizar guy everyone has their own oppinion. the cool thing is i'm replying to this thread on my PSP.

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Chris K
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 16:29
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Quote: "(e.g. the main player control the vehicle while someone on the PSP controls the guns)"


AFAIK all it can do is receive poor quality video, it can't send info back.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Kentaree
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 16:39 Edited at: 17th Jan 2007 16:40
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How much is the PSP nowadays? I sure as hell wouldn't pay to use on as a controller

Nor a DS for that matter, but I already have one. If what ChrisK said it's true, it's even less than useless

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Deathead
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 16:45
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£139.99 but that includes a Sony PSP Console, AC Adaptor and Battery Pack.

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Kentaree
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 17:50
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Not as bad as I thought, I remember when it was over €300.

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Chris K
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 17:55
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Where can you get a PSP for £139.99?!?

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Deathead
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 20:04
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Play.com.

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Deathead
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 20:09
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And also it's free delivery!!!

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Antidote
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Posted: 17th Jan 2007 22:59
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Quote: "Tell that to Ghandi."

Ummm Ghandi was active. True he was passive in the sense that he resorted to non-violent protest, but it takes some drive to not eat for that long.


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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 06:08
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Quote: "Free? It isn't free."


CS Source is free if you buy HL2.

Quote: "For example, who could possibly sponser a game set in the middle ages? You couldn't have bill boards with Amazon on them or Pepsi emblems on a knights armour. Goodbye realism."


They will *obviously* not be sticking ads in games taking place in the middle ages Ingame ads have been around for *decades*, it's not a new thing.

Quote: "Even games set in WW2 would be very limited as to what could be advertised, e.g. no new Ford cars on billboards or using your Nokia mobile to call for new troops. This would start to dictate the genres of games made, or they just wouldn't be funded."


And again, you won't be seeing giant Britney Spears CD ads in Call of Duty 4, okay? What are you worried about? Ads are a great way for a developer to alleviate some of the costs of development, and ads in games like BF2142 help offset the costs of having the servers on for years. You pay $50 and can play online for 5 years? There's no way EA will make a profit there, so they have to have a way to help with it. But it's not as if you're having a battle in the middle of a Tampax factory

Quote: "I think he means a proper browser. The one on the DS is pretty terrible to be honest."


That one's not even out yet is it.

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Chris K
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 10:23
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It is out in Europe and Japan.

I haven't used it but it looks pretty good - got writing recognition, flash enabled etc, but obviously it will be crap compared to a computer.

PSP is terrible for the web, typing is horrible.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Kentaree
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 12:51
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The DS browser is supposed to be very slow, and doesn't support flash or anything like that, so it's a bit retarded compared to the PSP's one, and it also costs quite a bit. However, it's hard enough to browse websites on the Wii sometimes, no way would I even bother doing either on the DS or PSP. Let's face it, if you have a wireless router at home, the chances that you have a PC are 90%

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Chris K
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 12:53
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Oh yeah I can imagine it being slow actually what with the DSs wee lil processors.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
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Zappo
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 13:07
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Quote: "They will *obviously* not be sticking ads in games taking place in the middle ages Ingame ads have been around for *decades*, it's not a new thing."

I know they have, but as bigger advertising contracts are signed more control over the game content would be handed over to the advertisers. I am just worried that the majority of funding will end up coming from advertisers and so games which cannot easily include 'in-game' adverts will stop being made. Or worse still, they will have out of place adverts which destroy the realism. I am sure you can think of movies where product placement became obvious and unwanted. I can.
Quote: "You pay $50 and can play online for 5 years? There's no way EA will make a profit there, so they have to have a way to help with it."

Other developers manage it. I think you are over estimating the cost of keeping the software running on their servers, especially as I expect the users to trail off significantly after a year or two. I would expect the majority of online games only to require connection to the main server while in the 'lobby' area anyway, the rest of the communications would be direct to the other players in your session.
If they do require funding from advertisers then perhaps they could show a static advert during loading screens?
Quote: "But it's not as if you're having a battle in the middle of a Tampax factory"

Haaaa! I can see several people on these forums having a go at making that game
Quote: "That one's not even out yet is it."

I saw it being demonstrated. Opera was a good choice but the one I saw definately didn't support Flash which is a pretty big downer, and no support for downloading plugins if I remember correctly. Definately no 'YouTube' or 'Google Videos' on the DS! The duel screen mode is a nice idea (full page on the bottom screen and zoomed in version on the top) but requires lots of scrolling around to read most Web pages due to the resolution of the screen (256x192 compared to 480x272 on the PSP). And of course you have to pay extra for it, whereas the PSP one comes free with the device.
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Jess T
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 14:58
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If you can (and know how to) run homebrew on your DS, you can run DSLinux on it and use a browser throw that

There's plenty of browsers out there written for PDAs that run ARM processors, so they should be compatible (as far as I know).

But at any rate, why would you be browsing the net with your DS? The only situation I can think of is if you're at a Wireless Hotspot that has DS WiFi available, and you've gotten bored of playing Mario Kart, or some-such... Surely you could wait to get home before checking your emails?

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Deathead
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 20:56
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Check out play.com here:
http://play.com./

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Deathead
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 21:01
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And Psp is Flash-Enabled, Javascript
I would have to agree PSP is horrid for typing but its exactly like a mobile phone.

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Josh
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 23:50
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Just a little something for everyone to read, from GamesIndustry.biz...


"FUD", standing for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt, is an acronym first coined to describe IBM's heavy-handed attempts to warn its customers away from competing products. More commonly, it has been used to describe Microsoft's approach to competitors, a careful PR move which the firm has used to undermine confidence in other products since the eighties. Although it exists outside the technology markets, it's no surprise that FUD was coined in this sector; it thrives in an area where many customers have only a vague grasp of the workings of the product they buy, and are easily swayed by an appeal to fear.

In general, companies use FUD tactics against the products of their competitors - and there's no doubt that in the videogames industry, Microsoft has applied FUD very successfully against Sony's PS3 in a few significant instances. However, the pall which currently lies over the PS3's launch may be full of fear, uncertainty and doubt, but it's not of Microsoft's making. Rather, it's a cloud of Sony's own creation - a rare and unfortunate instance of a corporation managing to FUD its own product rather spectacularly, albeit with willing (and certainly unwanted) help from the media along the way.

With the launch of the PS3 still a work in progress, Sony has battled to keep anyone convinced that a March date is really on the cards for Europe - including, seemingly, its own executives, with corporate boss Howard Stringer managing to peg the European launch for April in a recent interview. This added to a stream of speculation over the launch date which kicked off last year when Sony's worldwide studios boss Phil Harrison declined to comment on the March date - an innocent enough thing to do, since he runs the firm's software efforts and presumably has little involvement with the details of hardware launch schedules, but one which was pounced upon by the media as evidence that the firm was wavering in its commitment.

From tiny acorns, great oaks grow - and by the time Christmas rolled around, senior publishing figures around the UK were happy to openly (albeit off the record) speculate that the PS3 simply couldn't launch in the March timescale, with some going so far as to peg September as the date. It's unlikely that any of this was actually based on insider information, of course - the industry itself is as prone to baseless speculation as the media which surrounds it - but these comments, and the breathless reporting on them in the media, can't have helped the perception of Sony as a company whose plans for PS3 were up in a heap.

Over Christmas and New Year, though, a seemingly more serious problem emerged - with anecdotal reports from North America suggesting that the PS3 is languishing unsold on shelves across the continent. This, at least, should extinguish some of the doubts about the European launch date - after all, those reports were largely based on the assumption that Sony wouldn't be able to divert enough stock from the USA to satisfy a decent European launch by March - but this medicine is more bitter than the ailment it cures, and uncertainty over the prospects for PS3 is unsurprisingly high as a result.

As to the truth of the matter - who can say? The closest thing to a proper study into the question of Sony's stock levels is a check of the channel carried out by American Technology Research pundit PJ McNealy, who found that 28 out of 52 stores polled had units of the PS3 in stock, while none had Wii units. SCEA claims that this has more to do with good management of the supply chain for PS3 than actual demand; online speculation, of course, points to underwhelming demand for Sony's expensive console. The truth may lie somewhere in the middle, but the truth isn't really important - what's important is the FUD, and there's nothing that will spread FUD over a product as effectively as a seemingly undersubscribed launch.

And so to Europe, where the console will - apparently - finally roll out in March. Already the murmurs are there; today brought with it discontent over the price point of the system, which is pegged somewhat higher in the UK than on the Continent. UK retailers demanding higher margins is the reason being bandied about in some quarters; either way, it's deeply unfortunate that Sony has decided to price the system above the psychologically important 400 pound level, not least since the company has its work cut out for it undoing the horrendous FUD spread by PlayStation boss Ken Kutaragi when he went off on one several months ago about how people were going to have to work overtime to afford the new system. The lack of a 20GB model in this market will only serve to exacerbate price comparisons.

FUD is all about having question marks in places where there should be no questions, and the PlayStation 3 undoubtedly still suffers from this to a huge extent. People - both consumers and industry workers - are uncertain about the prospects for a machine priced at this level, and question whether Sony will be forced to implement a price cut early in its lifespan to invigorate demand. There is a huge question mark over the Blu-Ray format, which is usually cited by Sony as the reason why the PS3's price point is reasonable - we don't doubt (as many do) that the format has the possibility of improving PS3 games greatly, but from a consumer standpoint, hardly anyone actually wants a Blu-Ray movie player right now and few will be happy with the idea that they should be okay with the PS3's price point because it nets them a Blu-Ray player for free. After all, neither HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray seem to be making the headway their proponents wanted from them - and there's an increasingly strong feeling that neither format may be appealing enough to consumers to take off. Of course, there's the question of online services; many feel that Sony isn't moving fast or far enough to catch up with the headstart Microsoft has with Xbox Live, and they may well have a point.

Questions, questions, questions; fear, uncertainty, doubt. Whether any of this will actually matter when games like Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo and the likes are on shelves is a question in itself - but for now, there's a cloud over PS3 whose presence has nothing to do with the system's rivals. Only time will answer these questions, of course, but for now one thing is clear - the launch of PlayStation 3 is only the start of the race, and it's going to be a tough race for Sony. The continuing dominance of PS2 is a positive point for the firm, but by no means a guarantee of future success - and with both Nintendo and Microsoft snapping at its heels, the pressure is on Sony to deliver, to silence its critics, and to clear the air of the FUD which has gathered over the most important product in the Japanese firm's history.

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BiggAdd
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If i were the Managing Director of Sony, I'd just pull the plug on the next gen console market and concentrate more on the portable console market. I just think that the Big Wigs at sony are just being stubborn and not letting this one go.
Sony, in my opinion, can dominate the portable market pretty easily by reducing their prices and improving size and graphics.... before Microsoft cotton on and create a portable Xbox.

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Steve J
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 00:12
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If microsoft do that, they will own the game market... I mean, pc games, console games, and portable console games... Plus the mp3 market if they market better, then add on a cell phone, I smell microsoft being a hardware monopoly + software monopoly soon. Then all they need is to make tv's, monitors, and full computers and they can own the pc market completely...

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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 00:16
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I like M$, but not that much.


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Raven
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 00:40
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Given what Sony could loose over the next few years, unless they can make the Playstation 3 successful; Microsoft could very easily start a hostile take-over.

This would by far strengthen their own position.
Sony's stock has been falling recently, and if Microsoft chose to by the end of the year with the predicted success of Vista easily start a take-over.

Ironically this could never happen to Nintendo, which is why despite Sony trying 5years ago; they couldn't because unlike Sony. Nintendo are still a limited company.

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Zappo
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 00:41
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Microsoft were offered an easy entrance into the hand held market with the Gizmondo. They turned it down. If they had backed it I am sure it would have beaten the competition easily. Its OS was based around Windows CE and included DirectX, all running on a fast ARM CPU. It had GPS built-in as well as GPRS (for truly mobile communications over the mobile phone network - no need for WIFI hotspots) and bluetooth for LAN type gaming between devices. Such a shame.
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Steve J
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I would love to own a microsoft tv! Microsoft has turned itself around in recent years, and if their hardware quality would be as good as their software quality, a microsoft tv would be absolutely amazing, imo. Besides, Sony is 1.7 bil in the red thanks to the ps3.

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Jeku
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Except for the fact the Gizmondo was run by a bunch of convicted criminals I wouldn't have trusted that company to do my landscaping let alone dominate the handheld console market.

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Zappo
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 00:50
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Thats why I wish Microsoft had ran things instead of Mr.Eriksson.

(I also refrained from mentioning exactly what happened because at least one other forum had received a legal notice to remove allegatory remarks about him!)
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 02:39 Edited at: 19th Jan 2007 02:39
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Quote: "If microsoft do that, they will own the game market"

Why do I so highly doubt that? Microsoft couldn't hope to compete with Nintendo in the portable industry. I think you guys are forgetting just how massive Sony is. And yes, the PSP has thus far put up an incredible fight against the DS... but it isn't beating it yet, and if Sony can't beat it, Microsoft definitely can't.

Quote: "If i were the Managing Director of Sony, I'd just pull the plug on the next gen console market and concentrate more on the portable console market. I just think that the Big Wigs at sony are just being stubborn and not letting this one go."

And that's why you're not the managing director of Sony . They're behind, but by how much exactly? Earlier in this thread I posted worldwide sales figures that aren't that far apart and you guys are making it sound like the Wii is flat-out smacking the PS3 around... guess what? It's not. By the end of this year, the PS3 will be outselling the other two consoles. Not that I haven't said that before or anything . So far I've predicted this to the letter. And it's actually closer than I thought it would be... I figured Wii would have a MUCH bigger headstart than they have (I could dig up the threads with my predictions, there was more than one thread as I recall). Anyway, back on topic, for Sony to give up now would be the most ignorant thing in the history of the game industry. When Ford's Taurus was the highest-selling car in the United States, did Toyota give up? No, because they realized it was only a matter of time before the Camry outsold the Taurus... which it did. Do they even still make the Taurus? Anyway, point is, they aren't exactly getting creamed here. A year from launch, let's see the figures and see how right I am . If I am, you guys all owe me a coke!

Quote: "Microsoft could very easily start a hostile take-over."

No offense, but seriously, are you high on something? Microsoft is way bigger than Sony, that's true, but I think you're failing to realize just how massive the Sony Corporation is. They have their hands in just about everything electronic... televisions, DVD players, home theaters, digital cameras and camcorders, cinematography equipment (the best in the world mind you), home gaming consoles, personal computers and laptops, portable music, car stereo systems, robotics, telephones and phone equipment... need I continue? Oh, and let's not forget their enormous motion picture, games, and music divisions. While Microsoft is huge, it would be financial suicide to buy out Sony. Let's look at it this way... Sony's revenue in 2006 was $68.39 billion. Microsoft's revenue in 2006 was $44.28 billion. This doesn't count either company's financial reserves, both of which are staggering. Anyway, Microsoft could try to buy out Sony, but it would eat up A LOT of their reserves and would force them into a number of industries where they have literally no experience. To put it bluntly... it's not going to happen, and that's if it's even possible (which it probably isn't).

Quote: "I would love to own a microsoft tv! Microsoft has turned itself around in recent years, and if their hardware quality would be as good as their software quality, a microsoft tv would be absolutely amazing, imo."

Oh great, I can see it now! It'll watch any show made after 2000, but if you want to watch an old episode of MASH you'd need to play it in a different compatability mode . lol sorry, couldn't pass up the chance to knock XP. I'm terrified of Vista, I haven't read up on it because I'm afraid it'll turn me into a Linux fan


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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Raven
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 02:59
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Quote: "Why do I so highly doubt that? Microsoft couldn't hope to compete with Nintendo in the portable industry. I think you guys are forgetting just how massive Sony is. And yes, the PSP has thus far put up an incredible fight against the DS... but it isn't beating it yet, and if Sony can't beat it, Microsoft definitely can't."


I agree, that Gizmondo certainly wouldn't have been a smart move for Microsoft. Also highly doubt they could beat Nintendo in the handheld market, however this said I do think that they do have the understanding to compete against Nintendo as an equal just like Sega did.

If you look at the Xbox, it was Microsoft putting a Windows PC on-to the market with a console interface specifically for gaming. It proved to be quite a reliable and decent gaming platform too, despite what everyone was saying about it prior to release.
Microsoft have also become the architects of a new online gaming generation. Something they call "Social Multiplayer".

When they released th Xbox 360, it has been said "this is just another Windows PC Console"; however the reality is quite bizare.
Microsoft moved away from the architecture (x86) that they know inside-out, to PowerPC. They also didn't provide it as a PC console design, but redesigned it with console concepts; with eerie similarities to the GameCube in it's hardware architecture.

Microsoft this generation certainly aren't seeing this as a pet project to see "what if.." and they're not being so arrogant this time to believe if it has the MS-Badge that people will buy it. The console has seen the success it has down to the fact that it is now a real console, providing a very well designed and enjoyable experience.

To me this suggests Microsoft aren't taking a sit back stance, they're learning from the industry. They have brought out the machine that Nintendo hoped the GameCube was going to be. So if Microsoft entered the Handheld market, I would expect them to enter it with the same mentality and not make the same mistakes they made with the original Xbox. It would be designed to interact with peoples personal lives and each of Microsoft's 2007 platforms, given they know that the next console release for them is 2010 (while people complained at an early 2005 release i think it actually made sense to try and force the industry to a predicatable 5year gap) .. what they can do in the mean time is design around what they have planned for the next semi-decade.

I'm almost certain they are thinking of how they can release a product to compete with iPhone and Prada (LG's answer to the iPhone release in Europe Q1-2007), but also they have to be thinking seriously about the handheld console market now.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they decided to combine the two ideas to provide a single device, especially one that could replace the Zune which is doing poorly against the iPod (which personally I believe is down to the colours.. brown or orange, sorry but who the hell believe those were nice colours?!)

With Vista's release and Media Connect 2.0 soon to provide complete interactivity between each of Microsoft's main platforms, there is definately going to be something like this on the horizon. While we can whipser about it as if it's rumour, realistically this is guarenteed as it would be stupid for them not to try and cash in on this market.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 03:04
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Quote: " Microsoft could try to buy out Sony, but it would eat up A LOT of their reserves and would force them into a number of industries where they have literally no experience."


Granted I doubt this will happen, but you forget in most hostile takeovers the buyers take what they want (as in sony's game branch) and chop the rest up. most companies are worth far more once dissassembled, Microsoft would take over the PS line and likely dumb almost everything else.

As for how far Sony is behind, they may eventually catch up with number of systems, but catching up in profitability is years away if ever.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 03:34 Edited at: 19th Jan 2007 03:35
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In that I totally agree, the PS3 is costing way too much to produce and they're screwing themselves over for the next generation of consoles. I read somewhere they'd need to sell around 48 million units and drop the retail price to around $300 to break even. I could see that happening, but it's definitely a long ways off.

In terms of a takeover, Sony's games department is their least profitable area (right now anyway)... it wouldn't make any sense for Microsoft to buy them out just for that. The motion picture industry relies heavily on Sony equipment day-in-day-out, as does much of the music industry. Vaio sales have slowed a bit in the past few years, but they're still a huge avenue for Sony. And their motion picture studios are massive as well... If Microsoft did somehow manage to buy out Sony (for whatever reason they'd want to do that), they'd kill themselves if they cut all the other departments but the games department. It would probably end up costing them more money than the acquisition itself.

As for Vista, I'm extremely suspicious of it being a good OS in terms of what I want in one. I've heard from people that it won't be a resource hog, but those same people said the same dang thing about XP, and I'm sorry, but 256 megs to run an operating system is unacceptable, and if Vista requires less than 512 I'll be pretty surprised. Compatability is a major issue for me. I want to be able to put in Fallout or Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear and play it without any conflicts whatsoever, and I'm pretty sure that's a pipe dream. But I've refused to read up on Vista, I did that for XP and ended up being let down


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Jeku
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 04:00
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@Matt - You obviously don't know that Sony's electronics division (including games) hasn't made a profit in over 5 years. There's something to be said about that.

Plus, Microsoft has more billions of $$ in reserves than Sony. Sony *is* a smaller company than MS in terms of value by the way (and has been reported umpteen times).

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Antidote
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 04:26
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Quote: "but 256 megs to run an operating system is unacceptable,"


Yes, but 256 megs is incredibly low now. Things change, systems use more, things (hopefully) work better.


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Raven
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 04:45
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XP only required 128MB to install and run.
Alright so when you have lots going on it's going to die, especially with Service Pack 2, Explorer 7 and such...

this said, Vista manages the memory better. I've found I can generally do more on my laptop before the lack of hard disk (Swapdrive) and physical memory starts to affect performance.

Given I can happily do on this notebook (P4 2.4 GHz/512MB/Radeon7000VL) what I can on my desktop (Core2Duo 3.3GHz/1GB/RadeonX1900XTX-256MB) minus Aero, I think that's quite impressive for the release version. Drivers for high-end systems will mature over the next year and I'll soon see some more impressive performance to come (dear god I hope NVIDIA improve theirs for their DX9 cards) for now though, it runs quite smoothly most of the time.

Log-in times which on XP were a nightmare once everything was installed we use on a regular basis, like IM and MP clients meaning almost 8minutes boot time from cold-boot. On Vista have the exact same installed and it only takes 2minutes from cold-boot and <1min from hibernation. Programs loading for the first time also run much quicker, on the Core2Duo processors programs are finally instant start again even .NET 2.0 ones.

To me that's impressive. This said I'd recommend unless you have a good computer or purchasing new, not to bother with Vista just yet.. there are still a good few compatibility problems with Win32 programs.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 21:34
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Jeku, my whole point was that while Microsoft has a lot more money than Sony in reserves, it's hardly enough to take them over. And if they did that just to take over their games division, they'd be committing financial suicide. Sony's biggest moneymaking entities, like cinematography hardware and their multiple entertainment branches, those are realms that Microsoft have absolutely no experience in, and if they dropped those cash-cows then a takeover of Sony would end up costing Microsoft a lot more than they spent buying them out in the first place. But it isn't even possible anyway so I don't know why I'm arguing, hehe.

Quote: "Yes, but 256 megs is incredibly low now. Things change, systems use more, things (hopefully) work better."

256 MB of RAM is only low to people like us. A lot of us tend to forget that we're what the electronics industry calls "high-end users." It's pretty common for most people on TGC to have 512 MB of RAM or more. But how much RAM does a typical user's computer have? 256? MAYBE 512? If they bought their computer in the last year or so, then maybe they have a gig. Point is, for several years after Vista came out, most pre-fab PC's were sold with 128 to 256 MB of ram, and with an OS that eats up all, if not most of that memory, you end up with a sub-par PC. Heck, my girlfriend's computer, which I bought her last May, only has 256 MB of RAM.


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 21:43
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I think the high price is quite stupid. My parents won't get a Wii, saying it's too expensive for a birthday present. I'm not kidding.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 22:11
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Quote: "Jeku, my whole point was that while Microsoft has a lot more money than Sony in reserves, it's hardly enough to take them over."


Well in most takeovers very little money actually changes hands, the majority of a buyout is generally in stock from the purchasing company.

Quote: "Sony's biggest moneymaking entities, like cinematography hardware and their multiple entertainment branches, those are realms that Microsoft have absolutely no experience in, and if they dropped those cash-cows then a takeover of Sony would end up costing Microsoft a lot more than they spent buying them out in the first place."


Unlikely, MS could dump the studios etc for a good price chopped up, more then they give out on the whole company probably as smaller companies pay more for the assets then MS did, since MS could get them cheaper by buying the whole lot. As for the game divison, they would buy it for the exclusive contracts, and the PS architecture. They would not need to keep producing the PS3 they could keep the name and come out with a hybrid (lets call it the PS360), each Brand now would only be spending half of what it did previously on advertising. Imagine the draw to a system that plays both your Xbox and PS games. Sometimes all the value is in a name.

Again not like I see this happening, I think MS is waiting for Sony to fail all on its own, but it is more then feasible for MS to do so if they wanted.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
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Josh
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Posted: 20th Jan 2007 18:33
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@ Matt:

I think the mainstream has moved towards 512MB as a standard now, you can't even run XP, a decent anti-virus and a few other apps effectively with 256...


MS won't do anything to/with Sony just yet, it'll let Sony destroy itself then move in. I'm sure MS would love to own the PS brand and its own movie studio, then it could finally produce the Halo movie!

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Antidote
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Posted: 21st Jan 2007 00:49
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Quote: "then it could finally produce the Halo movie!"


Since it would still be directed by Peter Jackson I'd definitely camp out for that!


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Zeus
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Posted: 21st Jan 2007 00:54
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man i got a PS3 love it, i am a nintendo h8r. dwn with nintendo!

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Izzy545
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Posted: 21st Jan 2007 00:57
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Quote: "man i got a PS3 love it, i am a nintendo h8r. dwn with nintendo!"


That has got to be the most informative, well written, and substantial argument anyone has posted yet. Pure pwnage.

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