Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / An after thought on why people get offended at...

Author
Message
PoHa!84
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location: To your left.
Posted: 24th Oct 2003 21:35
Link
Could be wrong, but I think he refers to the Bible. There are no contradictions within its text, with the exception of things taken out of context.

Destroy you with my mind, I could!

Back to top
Profile PM
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 24th Oct 2003 21:38
Link
Today the scripture is known as the Bible. The Bible is a translation of the Hebrew/Greek texts (scriptures) into a single Book written in English. (and other languages as well)

I've found the King James Version of the English Bible to be a very accurate translation from the Hebrew/Greek.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 24th Oct 2003 21:57
Link
Didn't the Dead Sea scrolls discredit the Bible? They were carbon dated as the earliest parchments about the Christ etc. But the dates were all wrong for Jesus, but tied in with his brother James. I'm not sure on my facts here, but Christians have discredited the scrolls haven't they? I think they are trying to rub out history to make the Bible work properly.

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 24th Oct 2003 22:13 Edited at: 24th Oct 2003 22:28
Link
Just something I noticed here:

"But the dates were all wrong for Jesus"

Are these "dates" in reference to the dates returned by carbon dating?

I believe it has been found that carbon dating is an inaccurate method of dating things. They found that new carbon layers can form over the old carbon cells and throw the dates off, etc. And such things as contamination can happen.

Carbon dating is when you measure how much carbon is left in an organic object based on the fall-off rate of carbon. If they have this rate even slightly miscalculated, when they calculate the dates the error would multiply itself over and over again.

Also, there's an issue with water and carbon. Anything that was underwater cannot be carbon dated. This could present problems if the organic object was in a humid environment also, which could throw the dates.

And also, I have heard that anything over 10,000 years old cannot be carbon dated at all. Because there would not be any carbon left to date.

This isn't meant as an attack, but I wouldn't go on carbon dating alone as evidence to discredit the scriptures or Dead Sea scrolls.

EDIT:
Looks more like 50,000 years, not 10,000.
Check this link:
http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c007.html
It's a Christian link, but seems very analytical and objective in regards to carbon dating. With a detailed explanation of how it works.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 24th Oct 2003 22:30 Edited at: 24th Oct 2003 22:39
Link
The dates have been corrected so that they do now work with Jesus. So I had not got the recent facts. But still, there are things in them which Christians do not like. And soon the parchments will be DNA dated for a more accurate dating. Here are some of the things which seem to break the Bible a little bit.



http://www.geocities.com/engvaj/Scrolls.html

And this.

http://www.2think.org/hii/virgin.shtml
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 24th Oct 2003 22:44
Link
Pincho, fascinating. Excellent articles.

I agree with both Pincho and Arrow, for once, on this small matter: Organized religion is bad. I would go so far as to say it, as a whole, was evil.

My two cents .

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Back to top
Profile PM
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 24th Oct 2003 23:16 Edited at: 24th Oct 2003 23:19
Link
The info found here:
http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/article1.htm

Seems to be in complete opposition to some of the info you supplied Pincho. The info at the link I just gave regards the Essenes as well.

These texts may oppose each other due to their own pre-determined belief on the matter, and hence assumptions are made to back an unfounded theory. This can be true for both sides.

However, we cannot simply accept one side of the matter because it's what we like to hear. So, from an objective position, I would suggest that extensive study of the matter is done before making any determination of it. That is, personal study, that examines both sides of the argument. If you only hear one side of the findings you'll still only have heard one side of the findings.

To get accurate results, I would suggest review of the content in the scrolls and see how it lines up with each argument. As people have been known to take bits and pieces and fill in the gaps with our own theory. Again, this happens on both sides.

But worth consideration before you decide to denounce the scriptures altogether.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 04:25
Link
'But worth consideration before you decide to denounce the scriptures altogether.'

If someone tells me they've found an ancient scroll, my automatic assumption is going to be that it's fake-- ancient religious fakes are very common and have been being made since early history. If I see equal evidence that it's real and it's not...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Back to top
Profile PM
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 06:23
Link
Ok this argument has become poinless all that is happening is that people are stating the flaws in Christianity.
Its like BB`ers comming here and stating the flaws in DB.

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Back to top
Profile PM
HZence
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Mar 2003
Location:
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 07:26 Edited at: 25th Oct 2003 07:28
Link
@nuclearglory:

Just read a few of your posts on the previous page. You have to understand that many people are not Christians, therefore they don't believe in the bible, thus you can't prove Christianity as truth to them using the bible. You can't prove the bible with the bible, yet I find many Christians trying to do it all the time.

I bet the thought never crossed your mind that this compilation of literature that you claim to be truth might possible not have been written by all those people, and in fact one person, or different people. And they very easily could have sat down and planned out everything and thought, "what if they think of this?" They decide, "then we'll say this will happen." It's very possible, but you refuse to even consider the alternative because you're afraid it'll mean eternal damnation. You walk around every day, telling yourself you're right, others are wrong - you are blinded by the very light you claim to see with. I know because I was once a Christian. Then I woke up. I'm now agnostic, and odds are I'll remain that way for quite a while. I'll be agnostic until something happens that proves to me beyond a shadown of a doubt there is a God.

And now you're either laughing at how "wrong" I am or contemplating how you'll "save" me.

Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Back to top
Profile PM
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 08:16
Link
Well as a christian I think that it is "wrong" to think of others as wrong, as I said a while back (I think) although I belive in God, people belived that the world was flat just as much a long time ago.

It is possible that the mightve gone "what if they think of this?" Then decide, "then we'll say this will happen." but it is also possible that they didnt too.
Damnation, I think not God gae us free will to think what we want

The thing is for all we know NOONE is right so stop bitching about it.

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Back to top
Profile PM
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 14:30
Link
Quote: "Well as a christian I think that it is "wrong" to think of others as wrong."


Quote: "The thing is for all we know NOONE is right so stop bitching about it.
"


You are the only person who is bitching. And that breaks your own rule to think that people are wrong.

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 15:43 Edited at: 25th Oct 2003 15:45
Link
Where did I say that you were wrong? Pease find where I specifically said your Ideas are wrong you shall burn in hell for all eturnity blah blah blah.

Bitching? If you call that bitching then you obviosly dont know what bitching is.

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Back to top
Profile PM
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 16:41
Link
1/
Quote: ""wrong" to think of others as wrong,"

2/
Quote: "for all we know NOONE is right "

3/
Quote: "stop bitching about it."


1/ Double negative. You are saying that the people who think that something is wrong are wrong? Therefore by saying that they are wrong, you yourself a breaking the same rule.

2/ Then you give an opinion that everyone is wrong breaking rule 1 again.

3/ 'Stop bitching' is an order. An order is a breakdown in polite argument. A breakdown in polite argument is bitching. Another double negative.

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 17:06 Edited at: 25th Oct 2003 17:15
Link
"1./ Double negative. You are saying that the people who think that something is wrong are wrong? Therefore by saying that they are wrong, you yourself a breaking the same rule."

no i implied doubting peoples realigious thoughts were wrong, if you didnt pick that up you should practice "reading beween the lines" more insted of ponting out peoples flaws constantly.

"2/ Then you give an opinion that everyone is wrong breaking rule 1 again."
I said "for all we know" not that I think.

I dont get annoyed at many people but you are starting to pi$$ me off.
This is probably my last post in this thread I now dont care what anyone thinks any more im sick of defending my religion and belifs just to be told its wrong or flawed or "couldnt have happened". I hope your happy, now why dotn you go and tell kids that Santa doesnt exist for fun.

An after thought on why people get offended at at the God question:
"Coz every starts to question religion and bash those who dont agree on the same thing."

I wish I was a mod, id lock this thread now.

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Back to top
Profile PM
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 18:49
Link
I think I've found the one thing that really bugs me about most Chirstains as a whole (once again I state as a whole, there will be execptions), arogance. The belief that you are right and everone one else is wrong bugs me to no end. Jesus was humble, I respect that much of him. He walked and asosated with those that didn't belief in his god. Now days people will avode someone if they are a different branch of Chirstainty. Humility is one of, if not the most important trait I seek in people. The idea that you are greater than another is what is crippling this world, Jesus didn't die so you can gain an ego complex.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Rob K
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 18:57
Link
Quote: "Anyway ... I think, therefore I am ... but what about you? I have this theory that you all might actually be physically real, and not just a figment of my imagination ... but can you prove it?"


- I was talking to a guy who recently left university after having done a philosophy course. When he went for an interview with the uni 3 years ago, the first thing they said to him was "Prove to me that you are not a banana sandwich."


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net / BLUE IDE http://blueide.sf.net/blueide_alpha3.exe
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 22:26
Link
Well, I'm not going to start an agressive argument towards Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo. I didn't pick up on any bitching earlier though. I thought that examples were the most common form of argument during the whole thread. My method is not to break the code of Christianity, it's to aim my examples towards my own beliefs. My beliefs are all around us, nothing is left to the imagination. That's all I am trying to say.

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 25th Oct 2003 23:28 Edited at: 25th Oct 2003 23:37
Link
@HZence
Actually, my friend, I was contemplating neither. To tell the truth, I had a very difficult time reading your post. As it pained me greatly. I'm not sure what happened to you that made you wake up, but I do know that my heart breaks for you.

Quite on the contrary however, I was not always a Christian. I was a firm atheist and refused to belief anything based on imagination (as Pincho said). And, much as you do, I believed that people trying to prove the Bible with the Bible was a self-reinforced delusion.

I know it's easy to classify me as one who believed on blind imaginations and stuck his brain in the closet, but in all truth, I know all too well, and am familiar with, the thoughts you posted.

The point to the scriptural references was to demonstrate that they do not contradict each other, and therefore, it's not possible that separate men wrote them without influence from God. Especially men that lived from different time periods and could not have known each other. Archeology backs this up.

What evidence are you lacking that makes you sure the scripture is false?

@Pincho
Again, I commend you for not blindly believing everything you're told. There are many believers who don't have factual reason why they believe as they do.

In your first link, I did not notice any references to actual scrolls or the code-names for the scrolls. In which case, there's no way to accurately verify the information.

In the second link, I notice a slight assumption made that could be inaccurate. Consider this line:

"A look at the context of Isaiah 7:14 will quickly reveal that the woman that Isaiah was referring to was probably *already* pregnant, thus pointing out which sense of 'almah' was intended"

Notice the usage of the word "probably" here. The poster is not absolutely sure. Then take into consideration what he said beforehand:

"Although it is sometimes used in the sense of a sexually pure woman this is not it's exclusive usage. The context will usually point out the correct usage."

Thus, if he misunderstood the context, he could have come to the conclusion that the young woman was "probably" already pregnant.

This would apply to the second post as well. Consider this:

"The Septuagint is a version of the Old Testament prepared in the 3rd century BC by Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew scriptures into Greek for the Greek-speaking Jewish community. "

Is it possible that these Jewish scholars understood the proper context of the word "almah" and thus translated it into "virgin"? If the context was understood properly, the word "virgin" would have been a proper translation.

Without the ability to read Greek/Hebrew, we again, cannot verify these claims for ourselves. And thus, checking the original context of the "almah" usage would be difficult without getting a slanted view.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 00:53
Link
@Pincho
I just got to thinking about something I considered a bit back.

Let me do something here. I might get flamed for this, because you'll see where I'm going, but I want you to humor me for a moment. And you're not at all required to respond to this post, I just ask that you consider this.

Ok, humor me now.

Let's say, that we were in a morgue. (or hospital)

We're looking at this dead body, a corpse, and this man is dead. I mean totally dead - CPR for 12 hours, deader than a doornail, gone.

We could take his pulse (ok, he doesn't have a pulse)
We could hook him up to some equipment, maybe check his brain activity (nothing...)

Okay, so we stay in the same room with this corpse for a few days, nothing happens (well yeah, he's dead, nothing is gonna happen)

How much evidence would you need about that body to be sure that, without a doubt, he's completely dead, not coming back, period?

Okay, now, take this note down in your mind:
You know this man is dead and you are 100% convinced, we tested everything and we know that he is gone.

--
Now, you're still humoring me, so pretend that the next stuff is possible for a moment
--

We're still standing right there with this corpse.
Nothing is going on, as usual.
Then something completely odd happens.
This corpse begins to breathe and comes back to life.

He knows completely who he is (so his brain seems to be intact)
And he walks, and talks, and all the rest, just like he did before.

Now...

Seeing this happen directly in front of you, would you consider to yourself that perhaps you were wrong about him being dead?

But this can't be, we both saw it, we know this man was dead.

Let me ask you this, if you witnessed all of that happen, just as described above, would you believe that this man came back from the dead? As in, how could you not? We were all standing right there.

So... we know that this man came back from the dead, because we all witnessed it first hand.

Would we, as people, disregard it because it was beyond the realm of what we thought was possible? Even though we saw it first hand?

Now, to make things more interesting, let's say that this dead man told you that he was going to come back to life before he died. Now that's just plain impossible, and even if he did come back to life, he'd be a vegetable (his brain damage would be beyond repair).

I don't see how we could deny the fact that he was dead and came back to life, as we all witnessed it first hand.

So the point I'm getting at here is this...

How much evidence do you need that Jesus lived and existed and was totally dead?
How much evidence do you need that the totally dead Jesus came back to life?

And even if it were true, would you believe it anyway?

Ok, I'm done with the visualization...

These aren't meant as pointed questions. But these are questions I asked myself. Questions like...

"Even if God were real, and even if he did raise someone from the dead, would I believe it? Or would I not believe it because it was beyond what I thought was possible? And if all of the evidence said that he was dead and came back to life, would I let that change my opinion, or would I disregard it because it's something I'm afraid to face"

These are legitimate questions.

note: I asked myself these questions from an atheist mindset, so I know they are legitimate.

In any case, I hope that you will at least give some thought to these before quickly replying with a flame. As oftentimes, spiritual questions are disregarded immediately due to the fact that they are beyond the scope of what we think is possible. But that, on the contrary, is what those questions are addressing.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 00:58
Link
My view is that the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls both come from a similar time. If a Christian dares to say that the Dead Sea Scrolls can be faked then they can say the same thing about the Bible. The two things are equally ambiguous. I only used those links because someone asked about the Bible being 100% solid. My aim is not to include any ambiguous evidence. My aim is to stick with todays pure evidence. Lacking any evidence towards God, I am forced to show evidence of the contrary.

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 01:18
Link
That's fine. I'm not attacking your showing of evidence. I'm doing the same, only it's evidence contrary to your own.

It is great to talk with someone who can have an open discussion of the matter. Many will not.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 01:32
Link
Well let's take a look at your example. I might agree that the person had the ability to come back to life after predicting that he would. I would be amazed! I would then wonder what use this would have for society. It's not a great power.. it's only great for the person coming back to life. He gained life, we gained an amazing experience. Now let's say that he told us that God gave him back his life. There would be no evidence of this. I would still disbelieve him when he said that. Who says that miracles and God go hand in hand? I think that you have to realise that man says that God and miracles go hand in hand. So even miracles are not proof of God, and there are no miracles that have been so blatently proven anyway.

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 01:49
Link
Fair enough,

But consider this. If the man had been dead for long enough, his brain would have gone beyond the point of repair. That's one reason for CPR the lack of oxygen will cause severe brain damage. You don't have to lack oxygen for very long before you become a vegetable. But being dead for days, and coming back at a full status, that's beyond what can happen naturally.

However, going from what you said, would there be anyway to verify that God in fact raised a person from the dead? This creates an interesting scenario, because, what would God have to do before you acknowledged his existence?

I was in a conversation with someone earlier. And this scenario came up:


What if God came down on a cloud, in a fiery blaze.

He reaches the ground where everyone can see him and he says "I am God. Jesus is my Son. Any that believe in him shall be saved"

Then he ascends again.

Would we even believe him then? I'm willing to bet that many would think it was some clever light show put on by the Christians.

So, to get straight to the point...

What would God have to do to prove his existence to you?

Again, this isn't pointed. But if you acknowledge the possibility of God, then it's a fair question.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 03:48
Link
My beliefs are of a Human Heaven. I believe that the Humans could create a miracle if they chose to. God descending on a cloud of fire would be pretty convincing to me accounting for the limits of todays technolegy. I would not allow for watching it on a TV set though. If God wants to proove himself then he needs to do it to a minority of people who have the aural capacity to make man believe in this event. If I were to beleive in the Bible then I could proove that it were true! I am Pincho on a computer screen, but I could proove the Bible to be true! Do you know why I could proove it true if I were a Christian?....................................



Because I would require the proof myself! I would therefore have the proof to give to others!..............

Now if you go back to my comments about everything being solid in my world, everything having a comparison to the human world. Then I would now have a solid argument for the Bible! I ask.........



Why don't Christians have a solid argument for the Bible?

Surely some of them are similar to me.......

There must be Christians with solid foundations!

But there are none that I have ever read about.

How would this event, this solid event with proof ever happen?

A good example might be that there is a code in DNA similar to those Bible codes that you talked about. But the DNA codes would have to be very basic, simple rules. I am toying with this imaginary situation, it would be a good situation for the Christians. If they ever do find some proof. But the whole design of the world is to show that you are a good person without the proof of God to influence you. What Christians are missing is the basic principals of 'how do you have a perfect Heaven?' You have to sort people out! You have to divide them into groups of good, and bad! Not believing in God, but being a good person is good enough to get into Heaven. Being a criminal, but believing in God is not good enough to get into Heaven. Christianity has that flaw in its core! That flaw could be looked at as a flaw in a Christians personality. That flaw might not be allowed in a perfect Heaven. A heaven of people who don't care if a person is good or bad would not be a happy place. My feelings are strong enough to give you my alternate view of Heaven. My views could save people in the same way that some believe that Christianity will save them. My Heaven is based on facts, even criminals can relate to facts. Maybe some criminals need a solid approach to Heaven to understand it better. Maybe it would be better that they do not read my words that could get them into Heaven. They will not read these pages, it is unlikely. So if you have a small problem that is reversible, my words might actually save you. Just remember one simple rule........

Heaven has to be perfect!

Even swearing could upset some people in their perfect Heaven!

Would that ruin another person's Heaven?

If so, then it is not allowed, and is considered a crime. Three strikes and you're on Earth again!

Or one really bad strike!

Heaven has to be perfect! That's why we are here now!

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
the_winch
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Feb 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 04:05
Link
I think it's fairly safe to say that if god wanted to prove he existed and Jesus is his Son. Any that believe in him shall be saved it would be fairly easy for god to personally communicate this to everyone.
Perhaps if he cared about not sending people to hell he would bother to pop down every now and then to say hello. After all whats the point of giving man freewill if you don't give him enough information to use it correctly.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 04:49
Link
Greets again Pincho,

I required a great deal of proof before I believed the Bible. Yet I, myself, cannot force people to believe the accuracy of the Bible. It is something that sounds good at first, but when you actually try to share the proof with people, it is then you learn that they often refuse to see the proof. This is usually a result of pride and/or fear, etc. That is also one of the greatest sorrows of being a real Christian, is that people will just refuse to see.

In regards to a human Heaven, you're correct, Heaven has to be perfect. But there's a problem with this, at one point or another we would all slip, just like we've all slipped at least once on the Earth. And thus, the human Heaven you speak of would be vacant.

Maybe not at first, but over the course of time (probably not very long) the entire place would be empty.

Another thing is that, who decides what's good and bad?

If the human heaven is anything like Earth with a human run government, the the people would try to change the definition of good and bad, and you would end up with the state of the Earth, as it is now, in Heaven. You may even have people opting to return to the Earth because Heaven got so out of hand.

According to the biblical Heaven, people's sins are cleansed through the blood of Christ. As Christ led a sinless life. And you'll notice that God has "predestined" his people to be conformed to the image of his Son. That is, to be conformed to a life without sin, and thus, you have a perfect Heaven with Christ-like people there. And God's laws about good and bad never change.

From your quote:
"If God wants to proove himself then he needs to do it to a minority of people who have the aural capacity to make man believe in this event."

You'll notice that Jesus had disciples who went throughout the world and spread the news. Jesus called them "the light of the World". And that's what they were. They successfully spread the news and people got saved.

But they did not force people to believe. If God wanted to force people to believing he very well could. But he wants people that will love and trust him, not people that he has to pin down constantly because they get out of hand.

Another thing you mentioned:
"Now if you go back to my comments about everything being solid in my world, everything having a comparison to the human world. Then I would now have a solid argument for the Bible!"

Jesus did this through parables. Often immediately confounding the people who were questioning his ways and authority. His parables were very often in reference to the real world and were put into terms that were easily understood. And yet, people still question Jesus.

Here's the thing, if you led a sinless life and spoke the absolute truth, the people of Earth would eventually put together a plan to kill you. That is the main reason they crucified Jesus. His truth crossed their hypocritical viewpoints, and they hated him for it.

Here's more though. And I'm saying this for an atheistic viewpoint. If the God of Christianity is the one true God, then our idea or beliefs about Heaven are irrelevant. As God is in charge.

And in all honesty, I'd prefer a perfect merciful judge rather than a flawed merciless judge. And that's reason enough for me to thank God for his perfection.

If heaven was a thing of man, what hope would we have of Heaven?
And if humans could create a miracle if they chose to, then why can't we stop ourselves from dying?
What solid foundational material do you need to back the Bible?
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 06:31 Edited at: 26th Oct 2003 06:32
Link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3209223.stm
Its a sign of God LMAO

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Back to top
Profile PM
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 12:04
Link
Quote: "In regards to a human Heaven, you're correct, Heaven has to be perfect. But there's a problem with this, at one point or another we would all slip, just like we've all slipped at least once on the Earth. And thus, the human Heaven you speak of would be vacant.

Maybe not at first, but over the course of time (probably not very long) the entire place would be empty."


No it wouldn't because Earth is only for about 70 years, and Heaven is for eternity.

Quote: "Another thing is that, who decides what's good and bad?"


The councilors! Some people get to Heaven with a perfect record. They become the councilors. Also remember that you would have an eternity of knowledge, and 100's of lifetimes on Earth to give you better judgement.

Quote: "If the human heaven is anything like Earth with a human run government, the the people would try to change the definition of good and bad, and you would end up with the state of the Earth, as it is now, in Heaven. You may even have people opting to return to the Earth because Heaven got so out of hand."


Heaven can't get like Earth because people who try to take over are sent to Earth. We are far more intelligent with an eternity of knowledge.


Quote: "From your quote:
"If God wants to proove himself then he needs to do it to a minority of people who have the aural capacity to make man believe in this event."

You'll notice that Jesus had disciples who went throughout the world and spread the news. Jesus called them "the light of the World". And that's what they were. They successfully spread the news and people got saved.

But they did not force people to believe. If God wanted to force people to believing he very well could. But he wants people that will love and trust him, not people that he has to pin down constantly because they get out of hand.

Another thing you mentioned:
"Now if you go back to my comments about everything being solid in my world, everything having a comparison to the human world. Then I would now have a solid argument for the Bible!"

Jesus did this through parables. Often immediately confounding the people who were questioning his ways and authority. His parables were very often in reference to the real world and were put into terms that were easily understood. And yet, people still question Jesus."


You are using the Bible as an example of proof. These things are from the Bible. But the Bible can't be proof of itself.


Quote: "
Here's the thing, if you led a sinless life and spoke the absolute truth, the people of Earth would eventually put together a plan to kill you. That is the main reason they crucified Jesus. His truth crossed their hypocritical viewpoints, and they hated him for it."


Being killed means going to a perfect place, it's not so bad. Also you are saying that Jesus spoke the absolute truth but again that is according to the Bible. To me, he would appear to be a person with a self rightious personality.

Quote: "Here's more though. And I'm saying this for an atheistic viewpoint. If the God of Christianity is the one true God, then our idea or beliefs about Heaven are irrelevant. As God is in charge.

And in all honesty, I'd prefer a perfect merciful judge rather than a flawed merciless judge. And that's reason enough for me to thank God for his perfection."


By using the words Perfect and Flawed you are using a human viewpoint of what is perfect, and what is flawed. Your human viewpoint is far more likely to match another human viewpoint rather than a celestial beings choices of what is perfect, and what is not.

Quote: "
If heaven was a thing of man, what hope would we have of Heaven?
And if humans could create a miracle if they chose to, then why can't we stop ourselves from dying?"


Dying is the final reminder not to make another mistake in Heaven. That is why it is so painful. You would certainly remember the pain of death for a long time. Eternity is a very long time not to make any mistakes.

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 13:33
Link
Sounds like "Pinchoism" will be a big religion soon

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Back to top
Profile PM
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 13:43 Edited at: 26th Oct 2003 13:48
Link
My religion is more of a analysis of my surroundings. It has a really big problem!..............

Handicapped people are wondering if they commited a really bad crime in Heaven to be sent to Earth Handicapped...

That is such a downside to my idea......

Not a pleasant thought!

I try to look at them as learning something that will help them when they get to Heaven. Maybe they were lazy and didn't want to get up and help people so they were put in wheelchairs on Earth. When they get to Heaven they would be delighted to walk around.

But I think that, although it is a horrible thought, they may have commited a bad crime. I hate to say that.

But then again, I might have commited a bad crime too!

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 14:44 Edited at: 26th Oct 2003 14:47
Link
Hmm I see how that works sounds interesting though as you know has alot of holes (name a religion that doesnt).

Does it have an explanation for how everything was created or is that based on science? Basically I want to know where you think it all starts.

Or maybe we just reencarnate and never know it for all eternity, I think that would be ironic.

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Back to top
Profile PM
elVee
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 17:48
Link
I myself do not believe in god. I dont hate it if people believe in god. I hate religion in general though because it is corrupt.

People kill eachother everyday over religious quarrels. In the past, people have massacred others for their believes. If people of different religions would accept people for the way they are, and accept them for what they believe in, Ive got no problem with them. I cant count how many times a christian has asked me why I dont believe in god. And every time they try to convert me to christianity.

Before I believe in god, I would like to see proof of his existance. Even if I do see the evidence, and do start believing in god, I will still most likely stay away from all the organized religion.

I dont think I should have offended anyone, but if I did, Sorry.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 18:42 Edited at: 26th Oct 2003 18:47
Link
Where do I think Earth started?

I am going to tell you my science fiction theory. I actually believe this theory, but I don't expect you to take my word for these things. It sounds like a lot of nonsence!

Heaven lasted for many years without crime. But true to form, crimes were committed. With the ability to manipulate molecules/Atoms Earth was created as a jail, and a test site. Word of mouth about a crime was hard to proove. Heaven had no Big Brother, people had total freedom, not watched in any way. So how do you proove some of the crimes. Send people to Earth in the same surroundings, and situations that occured in Heaven for them. See if they commit the same crime again when they think that no one is watching them. That is one situation. Another is a prooved crime, and a reverse punnishment. You literally have the same crime committed on yourself that you commited in Heaven. Another is the personality correction formula. You were stealing peoples girlfriends, you are sent to Earth as a guy who has his girlfriend taken from him..etc....

This all leads to Earth as a manufacture system. The dinosaur bones are planted there for realism, inviting the evolution theory. The Bible is planted there to invite the God theory. Guardians Of Destiny are the councilors of Heaven, they allowed the word GOD to represent them. Most of history is manufactured so that you do not cheat a good score on Earth. If you knew what was happening, and where you were than you would avoid crime, and cheat. There are other clues..Spiders sit on your walls like tiny cameras, they have 8 eyes just to make sure that they fulfil their requirement...

Spi...der.....Spy Device! That's why they sit still in a web. The whole of your life on Earth is recorded into a computer, including your thoughts.

And even if there are no spiders around you have your Guardian Angel watching you. Guardian Angels also introduce you to Heaven when you arrive. They also give you the required counciling that you will need before you are put back into the Heaven system. Basically they give you time to adjust, and to teach you not to swear and such! They may be a close friend of yours, or a loved one.

History is manufactured, therefore most people spend their punnishment time during a certain limited time period. Near the year 2000. otherwise adjusting to Heaven would be much more difficult..Heaven is very futuristic! All inventions that could ever be invented already exist there. They can be built without work due to the molecular modelling of machines. Basically, you can have anything you want in Heaven for free. Stealing a car on Earth could cost you the chance to have unlimited merchandise. Holographic computers would be prehistoric in Heaven.

Sounds Great!

Sounds Daft!

But it's a nice thing to think about whilst you spend your time on Earth.

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 19:53
Link
This from the guy who only believes in his suroundings?


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 20:05
Link
Well it is based on the human race. Everything that I said is possible in the human race.

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 26th Oct 2003 21:25
Link
I don't usually write long posts Lol!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
HZence
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Mar 2003
Location:
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 00:50
Link
@nuclearglory: That's the kind of thing (about the whole being dead thing) that would bring me back to Christianity. May I ask, under what circumstances did you turn to Christianity? What "changed" you?

In turn I'll tell you what changed me. I was born and raised a Christian. I believed it for every second. I never considered any alternatives. I always prayed. I was a blind fool because as far as I'm concerned, I was brainwashed. I was too young to consider the facts for myself - for all I knew those were the facts. Not to mention, they were coming from a group of people that my parents trusted (sunday school teachers). So it couldn't be wrong. Whenever someone said they weren't a christian, I'd start asking things like "why not? haven't you ever considered this? what about this?" What woke me up is when I realized that I was brainwashed. The reason I never considered alternatives was because I was brainwashed into Christianity, I would never dare consider the alternative, that would be defying God. And I didn't want to "lose my faith". So I just lived blindly not considering the facts. There's more to it, I just can't think of it off the top of my head right now, I don't know why, but I could have a religious debate for hours. So in a nutshell I was an idiot. I still am, but at least now I'm not a blind idiot.

Team EOD :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
Back to top
Profile PM
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 03:41
Link
Funny thing, but I'm off to Wales for 5 days to spend a holiday with a group of Christians in a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere. Christians always latch onto me, I don't even know these people, but a knock at my door led to this holiday. Where do they come from? Same thing happened when I worked in a Casino for 3 years..Christians homed in on me and wanted me to join them. They soon gave up when they heard my opinions. I'm not going to ruin their holiday so it looks like I'm booked up for prayers, and keeping quiet about things. I think it's going to be fun anyway..

Cya soon!

Pincho.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
greenlig
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 03:44
Link
Lol @ pincho

I got best and fairest for soccer WHOOHOOO!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
greenlig
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 03:44
Link
dang, ive got a lot of reading to do!

I got best and fairest for soccer WHOOHOOO!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
greenlig
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 04:27
Link
Wow, pincho, i like your theory, very good idea for a book...like one guy overthrows the heaven or something!

anyway,

I have been gone a few days, so my arguements may date a few pages

This one question is for all the Christians who believe in a FREE WILL TO DO BOTH GOOD AND EVIL. I shouted there to avoind confusion

anyway, i, as you all may see, believe in a will that was once free, but is now bondage. Bondage to what? Bondage to sin.

When Adam fell(assuming all of you agree he fell) he fell into sin.

Before his fall, his will was geared toward good, he was perfect, but God had given him the ability to do good and evil. Im sure all of you would agree on that.

When he fell however, he became sinful. That much is obvious.
Becoming sinful erradicated any ability to do good that he had previously.

Quote: "Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins."


The reference to death in the first passage, with the second passage, is clearly talking about spiritual death and physical death.

now that man couldnt do any good, Salvation was COMPLETELY in God's hands.

To make that step toward God, to 'accept' God, means we had o an act of good, becuase obviously, doing that is a good and perfect act. Well, if we arent capable of doing good, how is that possible?

The only way I can see from my reading of the Bible is that God gives us teh grace to do it.

Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

the bold bit is pretty clear, God worked in the children of disobedience, us, and gave us the spirit.

Brandon, i dont think that it is like walking beside a cliff. If we can do this one little bit of good toward our own salvation, then we dont need god at all! And whats more, it makes God powerless in a way, if he cant call us, then what can he do? Surely if he is all powerful, then he can call us without our help. He created us, he doesnt need our input.

Quote: "
Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

Tit. 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Eph. 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved). 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom. 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.
"


those verses support my arguement.

I, and many other christian, refer to it as irresistable grace.

heres a link to, gasp, the westminster confession of faith, and it explains in detail all these things.

http://www.epc.org.au/wcf/

Regards
Greenlig

I got best and fairest for soccer WHOOHOOO!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
PoHa!84
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location: To your left.
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 04:40
Link
Quote: "If we can do this one little bit of good toward our own salvation, then we dont need god at all! And whats more, it makes God powerless in a way, if he cant call us, then what can he do? Surely if he is all powerful, then he can call us without our help. He created us, he doesnt need our input.
"


Errr.... Greenlig? Sorry, but your post has me a bit confused... Where do you stand in this conversation? You refer to the Bible's text, you seem to know something of what you're talking about, and then
Quote: "...it makes God powerless in a way"


???? Perhaps I missed something...

Destroy you with my mind, I could!

Back to top
Profile PM
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 06:48 Edited at: 27th Oct 2003 06:52
Link
@HZence
Greetings. Because of the large amount of detail that it would take to explain why I believe, I made ".doc" file containing the answer to the question. It is roughly 6 pages, so I thought it best not to post. Here's the link to the file:

http://www.nuclearglory.com/personal/Testimony.doc

About Jesus being completely dead. There's a large amount of evidence that makes it impossible that Jesus could have survived a crucifixion. Some of these being:

Rome was professional and putting people to death (they practiced it)

The Sentry that said "surely this was the Son of God" after Jesus died on the cross. His statement was examined. Why would a Sentry, who was a professional killer and saw many people crucified, why would he believe at that moment that Jesus was the Son of God? The answer they found was that he witnessed Jesus commit his own Spirit into the hands of God and die. There was also something to do with when the spear was driven into Jesus' chest cavity. I'm a bit foggy here, but I believe water or blood began to run from wound, and the nature of the penetration of the spear would have made it impossible for the liquid to run outward on a normal human body. In any case, something very abnormal happened that convinced the Sentry.

Jesus' body was wrapped. (Much like they do mummies) And he was placed in the tomb. Wrappings would easily suffocate any living person.

The tomb, however, only had an entrance about the size of a doggy door. Just enough to push the body through. It was quite a job to get a wrapped body in a tomb.

They placed a massive rock in front of this doggy-door sized entrance. Even if you were alive from the inside, there was no way you were going to push a rock that large out of the way from a point as low as a doggy door.

What we're really saying here, is this:
Our Jesus was nailed to a cross
He hung in the sun for several hours
A spear driven into his body
He (supposedly) dies on the cross
They took him down and wrapped his body tightly (like a mummy)
They put him into a cold damp tomb
They place a large stone over the small entrance
Then 3 days later...
Our tightly wrapped Jesus with a wounded side and holes in his hands and feet somehow gets out of his wrappings that are constricting his entire body.
He limps over to the doggy door entrance and somehow pushes this huge rock out of the way.
He crawls out of the tomb.
Then he waves at the guards (put there to make sure nobody steals his body) and says "hey guys" and they let him walk off

That's crazy. Roman guards would lose their life if they failed at their duty. So I think we can safely say that Jesus was, beyond the shadow of a doubt, completely dead, right?

If we know that much, then all that's left is to verify if he really came back from the dead or not.

Let me know if I can help verify any of this info.

@greenlig
I'm going to rebuke what you're saying a bit, because much of it is clearly off the mark, and that is not what scripture teaches.

"Becoming sinful erradicated any ability to do good that he had previously."

This is completely false. Adam did not eat from "The Tree of Eradication of all good behavior". The tree was titled "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". Therefore, when they ate from the tree, their "eyes were opened" because the "knowledge" that they were naked made them afraid of being completely exposed to each other. Therefore, they hid.

The idea that man cannot do good is contrary to scripture. Disobedience is sin, and time and time again God tells us to live righteously (good) and to not sin (sin is bad).

Your quotes:
"Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. "

Notice the first line: "Who hath saved us"
This is scripture for people who are already saved. And those who are saved are called with an holy calling. And this backs up the scripture earlier. He already "knows" if you're going to accept him or not over the course of your life. And because he knows in advance who will freely accept him, "he calls" them with "an holy calling". Again, this leaves it in the hands of the person to accept Christ.

"Tit. 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. "

This says the same thing. Something to note here:

You are not saved by your works
You ARE saved by your faith in Christ and it's your choice to accept him or not.

"Eph. 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved). 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

This is what I just said: "saved through faith"

"Rom. 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth."

Okay, look at this line:
"that the purpose of God according to election might stand"

It is correct that God will choose specific people to perform specific tasks. He does this throughout the Bible, but nowhere do I see God denying salvation to anyone. Example:

Acts 2:21
"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Acts 15:11
"But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. "

Romans 10:13
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. "


The idea that certain people, who ask the Lord for salvation will be denied, is completely against everything in scripture.

This is clearly stated here:

2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. "

The idea that he predestined people for hell is anti-scriptural in every way.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 09:36
Link
Wow thats a read...now to read it...bleh.

Ok pincho interesting ill take that into account, would make a very good book, "pinchotology".
Seriously all of it sounded quite resonable...cept for the spider and computer bit, yeah that kinda made me think you have watched the matrix too much.

Just a question for you christians (im only half christian so I dont belive in the whole bible) how does Adam and Eve work, I cant seem to get any idea how that couldve happened, not with science anyways. Unlike the story of Mosus I dont think that Adam and Eve happened, it was just a throw together to make the start of the world make sence.

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Back to top
Profile PM
las6
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 09:47
Link
I'm not going to participate in this conversation but I'd like to point out one thing. Many people dislike/hate religions. Okay, I don't like em myself either. But many people also think that most of the people really believe in something.

Thing is, a huge percentage of us believe in "something". Like a cloud or a force. But that's just it. an answer to a question. People got to have answers. This "belief" doesn't affect their lives even a bit and they sure don't think about it, unless they are forced to.

So that's why I don't like it when people think that going to church makes you a christian. or that having true faith would be something that everyone does.
For Example, Most of the people here in Finland still are members of church (can't remember the english name), but only a small percentage really believes in anything.

Faith in God is actually quite radical. It's not about following the masses or not thinking with your own brains. and it's a lot more rare than atheism.

I myself know what I believe in, and even though I come from christian family, I've made my decisions alone. I'm not actually part of any church at the moment, even though I consider it to be a good thing. But it's not as important as personal belief.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 10:02
Link
According to biblical account, this is what it says about the creation of man:

Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

A study was done that studied the elements in the human body. They found that all of the elements found in the human body are also found in the Earth. This appears to back the biblical account that man was formed from the "dust of the ground".

And for the creation of woman it says this:

21 "And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;"
22 "And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."
23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

There is something very interesting here. According to surgeons who do rib removals, there is a lining around the human ribs. To remove a rib, they have to peel back the flesh on the side, then they have to try and carefully remove the rib without damaging the lining around the rib cavity. If this lining is left intact, the rib will actually grow back!

That's the only human bone that I know of that will grow back naturally after being completely removed.

Isn't it interesting that these are ribs in particular? Again, this seems to support Genesis, with the idea the Adam's rib eventually grew back so he didn't have to walk around with a defect. This also presents the idea that God had the whole plan in mind before even creating Adam. As when he created Adam, he created him with a rib lining that would allow the ribs to grow back naturally, probably in preparation for when God would make woman from Adam's rib.

Check this link:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4145.asp
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 11:02 Edited at: 27th Oct 2003 11:04
Link
"going to church makes you a christian."

Bwuhaha

The funny thing about christianity is that you dont ned some kind of special ceremony to become a christian.

"Im a christian"
Converter: "congradulations"
"now im not"

Forgot what that show was called, but really funny.

Aight Ill have a look into those things NG sounds interesting, never heard the "rib thing" before.

Also NG how do you say dinosors worked? I God created the earth in 7 days then Man where were the dinosors? (thats the only reason that I dont fully belive the story)

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Back to top
Profile PM
las6
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 11:49
Link
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo, if you were quoting me, then you took the text out of context.

Keyboard not detected. Press F1 to continue.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
newbi 2 basic
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Apr 2003
Location: Inverness, Scotland
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 14:38
Link
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo, You kind of have to think
"What is a day?"

it can be any length of time really.... Just cause we say a day is 24 hours... Why cant it be longer...

The calender has been changed alot..and really a day can be anything you want it to be

its just a word
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-09-20 22:48:19
Your offset time is: 2024-09-20 22:48:19