Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / An after thought on why people get offended at...

Author
Message
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 16:27
Quote: "23 "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man."

There is something very interesting here. According to surgeons who do rib removals, there is a lining around the human ribs. To remove a rib, they have to peel back the flesh on the side, then they have to try and carefully remove the rib without damaging the lining around the rib cavity. If this lining is left intact, the rib will actually grow back!

That's the only human bone that I know of that will grow back naturally after being completely removed. "
That's becuase it's one of the most vital, it protects many of the major organ. It also is very flexable, meaning it experances more stress than other bones (breathing alone is enough, never mind injury), It gonna be abil to repain it self much better than other bones. A complete removale is one big injury, if it abill to it will regenerate.

I was more consered about the complete female domiation that Genesis 23 reviels. Quote like that are the reason women can't go out in public in the middle east without fear of torcure or death. Taking the bible literalery has lead the world down a path of blood.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
PoHa!84
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location: To your left.
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 16:45
Quote: "I was more consered about the complete female domiation that Genesis 23 reviels. Quote like that are the reason women can't go out in public in the middle east without fear of torcure or death. Taking the bible literalery has lead the world down a path of blood.
"


Err... you do know that's mostly Muslim, not Christianity, right Arrow?

Quote: "Also NG how do you say dinosors worked? I God created the earth in 7 days then Man where were the dinosors? (thats the only reason that I dont fully belive the story)
"


What do you mean how do dinosaurs work? God created dinosaurs the same time he created the rest of the animals. (I can hear the typing of "lol" right now...) The book of Job refers to a large beast with a ribcage of iron and a tail like a tree (::sigh:: too lazy to look it up and quote it exactly. Maybe later....) that seems to fit the description of a dinosaur.

Destroy you with my mind, I could!

the_winch
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Feb 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 18:30
Quote: "A study was done that studied the elements in the human body. They found that all of the elements found in the human body are also found in the Earth. This appears to back the biblical account that man was formed from the "dust of the ground"."


Err that appears to back pretty much every consiverable theory of mans origin except perhaps that we are aliens from another planet. We are formed from the dust of the ground, what else is there to form life?
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 21:24 Edited at: 27th Oct 2003 21:31
@Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo

There is a lot of information on how dinosaurs fit into creation, here's a great resource:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/faq/dinosaurs.asp


@Arrow
In regards to your quote. Reading Genesis, we can clearly see that woman was made as a "helper", not for man to rule down on with an iron fist, but to provide assistance to the man.

Notice something here. Woman was taken from Adam's "side", she was not taken from Adam's foot.

This provides a very beautiful picture of the relationship that God desired between man, woman, and Himself. Consider this:

Man was created out of dust
Woman was created out of Man
Then Man, in turn, is created out of woman in the process of being born (not Adam, but the children)

There is also something very special here. God took Woman out of Man and made them 2 separate persons. However, when they came together as "one flesh" that created a way for children to come into existence. This means that they are to be of "one mind" and that they should live as such. The problem with marriage today is that you have 2 people trying to remain 2 separate people in marriage. When they are to be as 1 mind together.

This gives a good picture of the intimacy God intended from the beginning. It would explain why he hates fornication (intercourse out of marriage), as fornication makes a mockery out of the beautiful thing that he created for us to enjoy within the constitutes of marriage. Also, this would explain why divorce is so grevous to him. It divides something that is to be "one" and goes against the grain of the intimate relationship design.

note: I am not condemning anyone who has been through divorce or who has fornicated. It is not my position to judge. And there is forgiveness of all manner of sin through Christ, at which point, in the eyes of God, it is as if your sin never happened.

This all makes perfect sense in what we were created for. Our single most important purpose as humans is love.

There was also an incident where a man bluntly asked Jesus about the subject of eternal life, here's the passage:

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

That's it.

Anyone who uses the Genesis scripture as an iron fist for women is clearly out of line, off the mark, and needs some serious rebuking.
haggisman
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 22:40
Quote: "However, when they came together as "one flesh" that created a way for children to come into existence."


Wow... two people back then -> 6 billion today. Thats quite a lot of inbreeding!

Defying the convention of an upright avatar since 1985
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 22:56 Edited at: 27th Oct 2003 23:05
Quote: "A study was done that studied the elements in the human body. They found that all of the elements found in the human body are also found in the Earth. This appears to back the biblical account that man was formed from the "dust of the ground"."

Erm, this only backs the theory that humans are of terrestrial origin.


Quote: "There is something very interesting here. According to surgeons who do rib removals, there is a lining around the human ribs. To remove a rib, they have to peel back the flesh on the side, then they have to try and carefully remove the rib without damaging the lining around the rib cavity. If this lining is left intact, the rib will actually grow back!"

According to your above theory, all elements of a female human can be found in the rib of a male?


Quote: "That's the only human bone that I know of that will grow back naturally after being completely removed."

Hmm, ask your favourite surgeon.

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
Jonny_S
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 27th Oct 2003 23:14
I will keep my views on God and religion to myself because I may offend some religious people but I have to comment on all this adam and eve stuff, I always thought the old testimeant(however you spell it) to not actually be true but to be teachings and examples on how to live your life maybe im wrong as I said I have never really been religious so I am not sure




^^^best smileys ever!

Supermonkey - The crime gifhting sex god monkey!
Sonic
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 00:46
Talking of terrestrial, does anyone know of the Bible's stance on life on other planets/moons? Or perhaps the Holy Books of one of the other major religions?

I ask because, you never know, within even our lifetimes "something" may be found elsewhere within our solar system and if it is I wonder if that confirms or flies in the face of the scriptures.

If it confirms the scriptures then it puts into sharp focus the issue that probably, above all else, bothers me about most organised religion: What makes us so special?

If we are to believe that there are "more stars in the heavens than grains of sand on every beach" (and a nifty session on the space telescope ought to confirm that), and if we are to suppose that by the time you get to a 3rd generation star, like our sun, then the elements that make up that stars solar system are likely to contain all the right ingredients for life forms like ourselves (ie the heavier elements), then one gets the impression that perhaps we're not the apple of Gods eye as we may have hoped.

For me, organised religion seems rather self centered in this respect.

Of course there is no proof of life elsewhere as yet but I use the notion only to make a point.

If we conceded that there is nothing so special about us, that we are animals descended from a very long line of animals, evolution as Darwin put it, then it puts the whole "special relationship with God" thing onto rather rocky ground doesn't it?

To be blunt, why isn't it good enough for us to be born, grow up & learn from our parent/elders, have children of our own and after a few thousand weeks we die and make a good bit of compost and food for other creatures & plants, that may then themselves be harvested for food for future generations. Simply dust to dust.

Why do we have to be the ones who rise above the natural circle of life that we see around us everyday and have a conciousness that exists on a higher plane?

Believing that we are somehow "above" other animals, and have a different destiny makes it OK for us to slaughter them without grief as without a soul they are not "like us" merely commodities for us to control, we poison their world (and ours) with little more regard than to claim ignorance and self pity ourselves when we are the victim of flood or famine. I find the idea that we are different rather unnatural and self centered.

Life is the exception, rather than the rule, a mutation of nature, our planet a dot of blue & green in a sea of blackness, a brief oasis of life in a desert of nothing. For us to have been put here personally by God would mean that the world, the plants and the animals were put here for us and us alone and that is not the case. We must be in harmony with our world, these things are not a God given right.

Perhaps the real miracle about all this is that we are here at all, we've not sent ourselves to extinction yet (not so for many species of other animals though) and have an opportunity to learn as much as a human (or what will be human) brain can about the nature of our world and of the universe around us.

If we already have all the answers in a book of scriptures written nealry 2000 years ago then what's the point?

Not to appear disrespectful to those close with a faith here but I can see how the those in the middle ages might have brought all that stuff about Adam & Noah but, frankly, this is the 21st century, don't we owe it to ourselves to set aside a ridiculously simplistic and humanized self centred version of the "History of the universe" and find out answers to the big questions ourselves?

Lastly, on the subject of everlasting life. Nothing is forever.

In 1987 I saw a star explode, it really does happen and is not just a theory. We die, Giant Turtles die, Giant Redwoods die, Planets die, Stars die, and at some point one might suppose that the universe itself will "die" either in a big crunch (perhaps to be reborn) or will just expand into emptiness, losing all energy and fading away peacefully.

IMO, the closest we can come to eternal life is through our children.

I reckon if you're going to worship anything - worship them!

But don't take my word for it or anyone else's for that matter, if the notion of ending up as a pile of compost appals you then by all means get a faith if it helps you through the day. I would only urge you not to press your own personal beliefs onto others as if in some way the fact that a religion is organised makes its own set of beliefes any more valid than anyone elses on the planet

"My ignorance amuses me..."
http://www.victory-road.co.uk
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 01:05 Edited at: 28th Oct 2003 01:10
@empty
"According to your above theory, all elements of a female human can be found in the rib of a male?"

You'll notice something here. God took the rib from Adam, meaning the "bone of his bone" and the "flesh of his flesh" was the starting point for the creation of Woman. Then God took that rib (the foundation for his new work) and expanded upon it and formed it into a woman. This is the reason it is critical that we acknowledge God's hand in the work. This is also a demonstration of how close and intimate God was the Man and Woman he had created, knowing their finest details.

IE. You have a concrete foundation for a house. Then you build the actual house on top of it. Does that mean the actual house contains all of the elements found in the foundation? No. The house may be wood and the foundation concrete. And we know the foundation is a very important part of the project.

@haggisman
That is a good point, I am glad you brought it up. The term used here would be "incest". This is a very legitimate question for Genesis. As all Adam and Eve's children would be committing incest, right?

First we must understand how incest works genetically before we jump to conclusions. Here's an overview:

The parents have a set of genes that get passed down the children.
During an "incestuous" action, the weaker genes get amplified for the children, which usually makes the children weaker, etc.

In the beginning, the genes would have been totally pure. So there would have been little to no amplification as there was little to no defect to begin with.

IE. If you amplify a 10% defect by 2 the results are far greater than when you amplify a 0.1% defect by 2.

God made a statement when man sinned in the garden:

Genesis 3
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

If you recall from earlier, Man was made from the dust of the ground that the Lord just cursed. This is the first sign of defect we have. And the defect probably grew as time carried on and people had more children, etc...

A direct command of "no direct family incest" came at the time of Moses. This was probably done for good reason. The defect rate was probably high enough at this point that incest directly with family members would have amplified a larger defect and created malformed children. And we know this can happen today.

And it lines up with what God does throughout scripture. Throughout the time of Man, God constitutes new law for Man's own well being and security. Jesus did this before he ascended back into heaven:

John 13
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

And if you recall from Genesis, Mankind only had one law: This was to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Then after man sinned, and throughout time, God had to give man new law for man's own sake.

This seems to illustrate that God is in fact a loving Father.

Check these links for more info on incest:
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qincest.html
http://www.apologeticspress.org/faq/r&r8310c.htm
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 01:10
Quote: "To be blunt, why isn't it good enough for us to be born, grow up & learn from our parent/elders, have children of our own and after a few thousand weeks we die and make a good bit of compost and food for other creatures & plants, that may then themselves be harvested for food for future generations. Simply dust to dust."


Yup, Mr Frisbee's wisdom:
Quote: "I mean, what you got to lose? You know, you come from nothing. You're going back to nothing. What have you lost? Nothing!"


Just fill the time in-between as good as you can, learn as much as you can, live long and prosper and in peace.

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
Ian T
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 01:59
nuclearglory-- by that logic, every time a new child is concieved it is some amount more inferior than its parents, and the closer related the parents are (even though it might not trace back, say, 50 generations), the more inferior the child is. So mankind is just getting stupider and weaker until judgment day?

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
greenlig
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 02:01
Nuclear Glory,

People who ask for salvation will not be denied! But what makes them ask? GOD DOES!!!

"For by GRACE ARE YE SAVED"

What about Saul/Paul? He didnt ask fro God to come and save Him, God intervened specifically, and it wasnt Pauls first steps that made God come to him.

regards
greenlig
ps, ill post longer later

I got best and fairest for soccer WHOOHOOO!
greenlig
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 02:16 Edited at: 28th Oct 2003 02:17
Okay, ive set up a forum over at
http://www.glightdev.com/debate

if any of you want to debate over there...feel free

This isnt Christain specific, but is for everyone to, maturely, debate any religious or evolutionary topics.

REagrds
greenlig

I got best and fairest for soccer WHOOHOOO!
nuclear glory
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location:
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 02:32
@Mouse
Though it does not sound good, it seems to line up with the scientific law of entropy: Things break down and become less complex over time, going toward a more chaotic state.

It is my belief that entropy started when God said "cursed is the ground for thy sake"

There is also evidence that indicates that the "cave-men" we think of as being stupid were in fact highly intelligent. Their brain capacity was 150cc's more than the average brain capacity today. They also uncovered an ancient hammer that contained 1% chlorine. With our technology today, we cannot make the same hammer with 1% chlorine.

So yes, we're in a downhill state until God redeems his people. And as it says in Revelation "there shall be no more curse"

@greenlig

"What about Saul/Paul? He didnt ask fro God to come and save Him, God intervened specifically, and it wasnt Pauls first steps that made God come to him."

Firstly, Paul got knocked off his horse by God and was blind for a time. Paul could have convinced himself that it didn't happen and could have chosen to ignore God. But he knew what had happened, he knew that it was God, and he accepted it. Paul wasn't saved until he made a conscious decision to accept/follow the Lord. Which probably happened in the midst of the Lord speaking to him.

It's people's desire to be saved that makes them ask the Lord for salvation. And the Lord is ready to save any that'll ask.

He won't force salvation on anyone. But by his grace (Grace: Where God does away with the punishment that you deserve) you are saved. You do not receive God's grace and salvation until you ask Him for it.
PoHa!84
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location: To your left.
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 02:39
@Sonic and empty:
I feel sorry for you. If you have nothing to lose, then what keeps you from going on a murderous rampage? (not that you would... )

Destroy you with my mind, I could!

empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 02:43
Quote: "I feel sorry for you. If you have nothing to lose, then what keeps you from going on a murderous rampage?"

?
What keeps you from going rampage? The fear you might lose something?

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
PoHa!84
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location: To your left.
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 02:44
Umm... cause I know its a sin. And I do have things to lose.

Destroy you with my mind, I could!

empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 02:47
So if it wasn't a sin you'd go on a rampage?

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
ESC_
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2003
Location: Mass.
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 02:56
"@Sonic and empty:
I feel sorry for you. If you have nothing to lose, then what keeps you from going on a murderous rampage? (not that you would... )"

Maybe because they don't need someone to frighten them into deciding what is morally right or wrong, and they are smart enough make their own logical and moral descisions without needing a fear of punishment.

"That's not a bug, it's a feature!"
"Variables won't, constants aren't."
PoHa!84
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Oct 2003
Location: To your left.
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 04:37
LOL

I see that my words have been misunderstood. Sorry for the confusion. I was trying to make the point that everyone has something to lose, and therefor...

::sigh::

It's no use.

@NuclearGlory: I admire you for your persistance. But I think its too late. They've been brainwashed by the society around them, and fail to even acknowledge that we have legitimate reasons for believing the way we do, and they will continue to believe that WE are the ones who've been brainwashed, scared into believing what we do, etc...

At the rate that this post is going, nothing will change. I hope you have more patience than I do, for their sakes.

@Esc_:
Quote: "Maybe because they don't need someone to frighten them into deciding what is morally right or wrong, and they are smart enough make their own logical and moral descisions without needing a fear of punishment."


Frightened? Um... now. I wasn't frightened into believing what I do. And I was brought up with a sense of moral right and wrong, even though my family wasn't Christian. I made the LOGICAL decision, based on FACTS to believe that our savior died for us on the cross, for us, because he loved us that much. If you can't understand that, then I feel sorry for you too.

Just a question for all to ponder on: The Christians here post because they want others to experience the same happiness that they do, and to spread God's word. Atheist post here to...? Denounce Christianity? Express their opinion that God doesn't exist and their is nothing besides what we can see? Or simply because they are trying to convince themselves...?

I will no longer post here. This has gotten out of hand. I almost wish that I had never posted at all, and I know that there will be some that are going to get angry because of this post. So be it.

Destroy you with my mind, I could!

Brandon
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Feb 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 04:44
I totally agree with you PoHa!84. I'm sorry you aren't going to post here anymore but I totally understand your reasons.
Sonic
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 05:08
I do not wish to get drawn into this - I've had my say but PoHa!84, surely the purpose of this post is for an open discussion of these things, not for those with faith to "save" those without the same faith.

Quote: "I hope you have more patience than I do, for their sakes"

Y'see, you're putting on that hat that just turns ppl off. You can take a horse to water but you can't force it to drink.

You are entitled to your view and I respect that, just as long as you can respect others who are not of your pursuasion.

I simply posted here because its an interesting topic and I wished to air my opinion, just as you guys have.

So can we please have a little less "I feel sorry for you" and perhaps some more "oh really, that's an interesting viewpoint, what leads you to that conclusion?". Then we might all learn something

"My ignorance amuses me..."
http://www.victory-road.co.uk
newbi 2 basic
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Apr 2003
Location: Inverness, Scotland
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 12:30
Ok here is a question i want to know... if god loves us then why comdem us to a life of pain and misery in hell. He is the all forgiving/ all loving god so why condem people to hell....

I dont really buy that if i dont follow christianity i am immediatly going to hell..

Maybe god has shrouded himself in so many morals that he can no longer help us... I mean you ask for help that is greed, You ask to help someone else it make you feel happy that is kind of greed/ selfishness...

Maybe we should just wait and see what happens at the end.. i mean we could all be wrong and infact death is like a never ending party because you managed to get through that crappyness of life! ;D


Maybe after death we go onto a new life somewhere else die there and go on somewhere else... kind of like reincarnation but you go from diffrent world to diffrent world...


I just want to wait and see what happens and not waste my life worrying tbh
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 14:11 Edited at: 28th Oct 2003 14:16
"Ok here is a question i want to know... if god loves us then why comdem us to a life of pain and misery in hell. He is the all forgiving/ all loving god so why condem people to hell...."

Im a christian and I dont buy it, IMHO it is "advertising" created in the 17th century.

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Wiggett
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st May 2003
Location: Australia
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 14:44
jesus christ how long do you guys wanna make a post. i used to post on this thread till they became too long to want to read

Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 16:48
Quote: "Err... you do know that's mostly Muslim, not Christianity, right Arrow?"
Up untill the New Testement Christains, Muslems and Jews didn't exist, there was only those who follow God. The only thing that now seprates the three is the Prophets which they follow, is there a comandment against worshiping something else other than God? When you get down to it, all three have the same Old Testement.

Quote: "Anyone who uses the Genesis scripture as an iron fist for women is clearly out of line, off the mark, and needs some serious rebuking. "
The Catholic Church used it that way up untill 1980, America followed it untill the 1950's. Far too many of the scriptures have been used for less-than-holy reasons, that one of the reasons I don't think the Bible should be taken literaly.

Quote: "I made the LOGICAL decision, based on FACTS to believe that our savior died for us on the cross, for us, because he loved us that much. If you can't understand that, then I feel sorry for you too."
Lol, the only proof Jesus was the sonof God is the Bible, isn't that a biased sourse? If I told you I jumped out of a plane a mile up in the sky, hit the ground, got up and made love to a Playboy Bunny, but I was the only one who saw it (outside the bunny), would you believe me? Yes, that stories a bit far fetched but so is Genesis.

As for the I feel sorry for you crap, that exactly what I'm talking about when it come to arogence. You think you are right and to hell with everyone else (no pun intended). I never started this thread to denonce Chirstainty, I started it to see why people get so pissy about there religion. That reason is arogence, I have yet to be offended at any comment here, though no one has called my beleifs crap, no has said that to Cristians beliefs ethier. Once you get down to it, they all cover the same stuff, do good to others. Thw thing we are arguiong about now is basiclty paperwork. How did 'turn the other cheek' get muddled into 'non-believes will goto hell'? I think some of you need to sit down and look at your beliefs. Are you following sripture or God's will?


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 17:04 Edited at: 28th Oct 2003 17:16
Quote: "I was trying to make the point that everyone has something to lose, and therefor..."

What do we lose?
You were born, so take that opportunity and make the best of it, cause you will die sooner or later. Death's the final word (Mr Frisbee, again).

Quote: "Just a question for all to ponder on: The Christians here post because they want others to experience the same happiness that they do, and to spread God's word. Atheist post here to...?"

Because they want others to experience the same happiness that they do, and that this is possible without believing in God or the bible. Or maybe because of this:

Quote: "@NuclearGlory: I admire you for your persistance. But I think its too late. They've been brainwashed by the society around them, and fail to even acknowledge that we have legitimate reasons for believing the way we do, and they will continue to believe that WE are the ones who've been brainwashed, scared into believing what we do, etc...

At the rate that this post is going, nothing will change. I hope you have more patience than I do, for their sakes."


So it's ok to spread the word of God and Christianity, but it's not ok to post atheistic pov? Well, you want to save atheists?
As pointed out by Arrow, this is a bit arrogant. Believe in whatever you want, but please, let other people believe in what they want. They worked out their opinions, faith, beliefs or whatever, as conscientious as you did.

I awoke in a fever. The bedclothes were all soaked in sweat.
She said "You've been having a nightmare and it's not over yet"
Rob K
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 17:29
Quote: ""@NuclearGlory: I admire you for your persistance. But I think its too late. They've been brainwashed by the society around them, and fail to even acknowledge that we have legitimate reasons for believing the way we do, and they will continue to believe that WE are the ones who've been brainwashed, scared into believing what we do, etc..."


Like many here, I am an atheist, but I think most people are fairly open minded these days, but people demand evidence which is not forthcoming.

Quote: "I made the LOGICAL decision, based on FACTS to believe that our savior died for us on the cross, for us, because he loved us that much"


Hmm, if there was a deity then I think the Jews version of events is a far more likely scenario with regards to Jesus.

haggisman
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Oct 2003 17:38
Quote: "In the beginning, the genes would have been totally pure."


How do you mean pure? What is this defect you keep on mentioning?

Thanks to evolution over time the strongest survive and pass on their genes. This just happens to allow species all over the planet to adapt to the ever changing enviroment. To be honest after a couple of million years of evolution i dont feel that defective. (I hope you arent a creationist)

Quote: "They also uncovered an ancient hammer that contained 1% chlorine. With our technology today, we cannot make the same hammer with 1% chlorine."


Yes because obviously its very important to have chlorine in a hammer :

How many cavemen were able to travel to the moon? How many cavemen would be able to build a suspension bridge? How many cavemen could build a computer? How many cavemen could calculate the relativistic velocity of an electron inside a television?

Quote: "Atheist post here to...? "


To express our opinions of course, just like you. I myself can't speak for every other athiest but i believe that everybody deserves to hear the other side of the story.

For example, take catholics or rather one in particular His Holiness John Paul II. He was the person who prevented the vatican endorsing contraception, in fact he is so against it the catholic church on purpose sends out leaflets full of lies to many african countries about contraception. EG "Latex from which condoms are made have pores that allow HIV to pass through". No wonder Africa is in such a mess with AIDS. (Info courtesy of a very nice Documentary on BBC)

Defying the convention of an upright avatar since 1985
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 31st Oct 2003 18:49
Quote: "Ok pincho interesting ill take that into account, would make a very good book, "pinchotology".
Seriously all of it sounded quite resonable...cept for the spider and computer bit, yeah that kinda made me think you have watched the matrix too much.
"


Yeah it sounds a bit like the Matrix but I had my ideas worked out way before The Matrix. When I watched The Matrix, I could see that it was a film that I could have made myself. The storyline therefore didn't impress me to much, which is probably why I like Matrix2 better.

The spiders sound like science fiction, but are almost possible to make today! So not much science fiction in that part. I'm sure that people would make spider bugs too if they could do it, and they soon will.

My idea also suggests that we were in Heaven for billions of years, or infinate years, so the technolegy is awesome. Well awesome enough to make a planet, and animals, and nature. We would send prisoners to another planet if we could. We sent them to Alcatraz which is really the same thing. Anyway if I'm right you can all go for the high score now! I've given you the cheat..Rosebud!

Pincho.
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 1st Nov 2003 05:44
No the spiders sound like your a little to into the Drow.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 1st Nov 2003 15:05
Drow = Draw I think! Drugs. I don't take any, or smoke any. The Bible is way more Sci-Fi than my ideas.

Pincho.
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 1st Nov 2003 16:44
Drow, the dark elves. They worship Lloth, the Spider Queen God. Have you never played D&D?


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 1st Nov 2003 19:15
I've never played D&D. I don't get my ideas from sci-fi. I get my ideas from life.

Bugs = Bugs (Surveilance devices) = Spiders = Spy = Watching!

Mechanical Spider = Robot Wars

Eyes = mini-cams

Everthing is there in real life without the need for D&D.

Pincho.
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 04:58
I didn't say you need anything, it's just that your idea does sound very original. Technically everything is from reality else we'ld not know of them.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 14:21
I wonder if mankind will ever be able to make a biological living creature from a blueprint. Whenever you read a book, or watch a film that is based in the future, the film has dates that we can relate to. 4000AD is nothing really. Mankind has 56Million years (I Think!) before the sun burns out. What if you wrote a book about 50000000AD? How close could we get to my scenario? If we can humanly get close to my scenario then we might already be living it!

Pincho.
Fallout
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 15:57
I'm with Uberwiggett on this one. I thought we already established nobody's gonna be swapping beliefs as a result of this thread, so you're all only serving to distance yourselves from each other.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
Pincho Paxton
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Dec 2002
Location:
Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 16:15
Some people have no beliefs exept that you Die into blackness. I think that they are open to discussion. They also have the potential to become criminals without any beliefs, so I want to give them an opinion that will put them on the right road.

Pincho.
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 16:43
A) I was hoping to close the gap between people of different beliefs, foolish pride is the only thing seperating them.

B) The sun goes boom in about 5 billion years, sooner if outside forces appear (a.k.a. the Deathstar senario). I seriously doubt mankind will last even another 10,000 years, considering how much we like to create large hole in the ground where cities used to be. Hell, at the rate we are using up our natural resources, we won't even have to kill ourselves.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
DrakeX
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location:
Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 16:44
fighting over beliefs is like fencing with a damn wet noodle!

and yet the whole world continues to do it and somehow people still win in belief fights! i don't get it.

stop looking at me!
IanM
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Sep 2002
Location: In my moon base
Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 18:43
I don't get it either. But it's not the whole world - for example, I couldn't care less what religious beliefs anyone else has, and I like this courtesy to be returned.

Quote: "They also have the potential to become criminals without any beliefs"


Um, yeah, right! And of course, if you have religious beliefs, then there's no way you can ever become a criminal ...
Fallout
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 2nd Nov 2003 20:46
Sorry, but I'm about to spell jahova wrong. Too late, done it already. Anyway, in my last house, this guy used to come round with his wife and kids (young guy, about late 20s) and used to chat to me about God.

Anyway, he was nice enough, so I gave him the time of day, and he kept asking me what my believes were and I kept giving him the line "Well, I believe in something, but I dont know what it is and I don't believe in relgion". He didn't take any offense, and he didn't pressure me into believing anything. The worst he did was give me a leaflet, and then chat to me about the football. He came round three or four times, chatted at the door for 10 minutes or so, and then left.

That's what it's all about. In his eyes, I hadn't done anything wrong for not believing in god. He appreciated I had an open mind and felt some spiritual presence and he was happy to just extend good will to me and not try and explain his believes. He never did actually. He just knocked on the door, had a polite chat, introduced me to his family, and dropped off the odd leaflet. He even remembered my name each time (but I'll be ******* if I could remember his )

Some people could take a leaf out of his book.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 06:02
There needs to be a whole lot more of those kinds of people in this world.


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
las6
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2002
Location: Finland
Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 10:46
Fallout, that's like it should be... well, except for the fact that many people don't like people who come to their doors knocking.

the "right way" (according to my view) to tell about your own beliefs is to make it visible, but let it stay there. I mean, others should be able to see what you belive in, but that doesn't mean you'll have to stalk them. Just be there, and if someone wants to talk, then it's fine. At least that's what I do.

Keyboard not detected. Press F1 to continue.
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th May 2003
Location:
Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 13:53
Thats what I have been trying to say the whole fricken time...

This sig is poinless. Poin poin poin poin!
Fallout
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 3rd Nov 2003 22:20
Well, if anyone wants to talk to me about my believes, I'm always here. hehehe.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
Arrow
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jan 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 4th Nov 2003 17:43
Yeah, this thread really died after nuclearglory and a few other Chirstians left, and I had thought up another point against taken the bible literally. Bummer.

In all honesty, I love the confict created when debating (arguing) religion. Neither side backs down (untill they realize that), both keep drawing apon untapped potential to make there arguments, it's like a perpetual motion machine creating pure energy, it gets me excited just thinking about it. Only religion can create arguments that are completely unyielding, nothing else can do that. God, I love it so (no pun intened).


DDR is the best form of exercise money can buy.
Fallout
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 4th Nov 2003 21:27
Yeah, it's a never ending spiral really. Relgious types don't need a shred of proof except for the bible to make their argument, and the Scientifically minded can just fall back onto others peoples research and the fact it's widely respected. Both sides think each others proof is completely laughable, but believe whole heartedly in their own proof.

It's the jackyll and hyde of discussion!

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!
Brandon
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Feb 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 5th Nov 2003 00:22 Edited at: 5th Nov 2003 01:03

Incredible Testimony
THE BIGGEST SKEPTIC IN THE WORLD:
IT COULD HAVE BEEN ME


You must look at this with an open mind and heart, you can't go into reading anything with the thought in your head that you are right and that the information that you are about to read is going to be false.

And also, you will notice that most of the people with evidence that says that the Bible is true, well... you'll notice that they are christians, and most of them became christians by first setting out to prove the bible as false, but in the processes found it to be true.

With that said, I have a very interesting link that you should read.

EDIT:
http://stahl.weworkwhileyoudream.com/Documents/Bible_Desk/proof_bible_true.htm
Fallout
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 5th Nov 2003 01:45
You're having a laugh! The only people who are gonna be bothered to read that are people who want to believe the bible is true. lol They need to edit that into a 2 page document to stand a chance of the skeptics giving it a read.

Insiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide!

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-09-20 22:42:04
Your offset time is: 2024-09-20 22:42:04