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Geek Culture / The TYTT Development Thread

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 16:28 Edited at: 27th Feb 2006 00:41
Hi all,

How to upload

By email

Send your file to rich@thegamecreators.com
Any size file.

By FTP.

Server: ftp.thegamecreators.com
Login: anonymous
Password: whatever

Put your file into the incoming directory. You CANNOT get a directory listing from this directory, so you cannot see what is already in it / what you upload to it. It is designed like this for a reason. Some FTP clients are a bit dumb and won't allow you to upload to a folder it cannot get a listing of, in which case use a better FTP client please. FTP Rush or FTP Voyager will both work.

What is all of this?

As mentioned in Issue 37 of our newsletter we are after games for a new software title. If this is all new to you then please don't proceed any further until you have read this:

http://www.thegamecreators.com/data/newsletter/newsletter_issue_37.html

Ok for everyone else please use this thread to post your questions and I will answer them. I am attaching a zip to this forum post which contains full source code for extremely fast keyboard entry routines for DBPro. The code is well commented and runs stand-alone, and should be easy enough for you to modify for your needs.

You don't *have* to use it, but it will save you a lot of time! If your game suffers from poor keyboard entry detection when we test it, you've only got yourself to blame.

The ZIP also contains various graphic elements. There are backgrounds, game panels and controls. Again, you don't *have* to use them, but it will save you time if you need a backdrop for an options screen / high-score screen, etc. Plus it will give you a good idea of the look and feel of the product in order to keep things consistent.

Here are the development guidelines:

1) Your game must be written in DBPro.
2) Your game must run in a Window, 800x600 pixels in size.
3) Your game must work on a UK keyboard (important)
4) Keep it FAMILY ORIENTATED.
5) You must own the copyright on all media used. If you don't own it, don't use it.
6) Do not make your game publically available.

It is up to you what your game consists of. Remember we're not looking for hardcore multi-level multi-game type affairs. The games should be SIMPLE, EASY to pick-up and FUN to play. Think of one idea, and do it well. Don't try and over-stretch yourself.

The deadline

We need to see a working proto-type of your game by the end of February (so that's February 28th 2006). You can upload it to our ftp server, or email it to me, I don't mind which. We will short-list games and then you've got until the end of March 2006 to work with us to finish them off.

What's the prize?

If we pick your finished game as being worthy of inclusion in the final package then we will pay you £300. That is £300 PER GAME. For those of you in the US that is approx. $530 (based on the current exchange rate). We pay per game so if you are on a coding streak and provide us with two games and we pick them both, we'll give you £600 ($1060).

You will also receive a free copy of the finished software, your name in the credits, and we'll release a video of your game in action so the rest of the community can see what you created.

That's it. Please re-read the article linked to above to fill in the gaps, and post your questions here.

Cheers,

Rich

Bite my shiny metal ass

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The Cage Complex
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 16:52
Hi,

I've got a little question before starting and I think it can be usefull for everyone.

Can you (or most certainly TYTT author) provide somes stats. I mean how many key/seconds a basic TYTT gamer can reach?
If we create game using e.g. 3 modes (novice - intermediate - expert), how many key/s correspond a "novice" in the TYTT software, and so on.

So all compo-games will fit with TYTT usage.

Richard Davey
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 17:08
Good question.

Typing games can really break down into three areas:

1) Typing Speed
2) Typing Accuracy
3) A combination of them both

Your game could concentrate on accuracy alone and you don't care about the time the player takes, as much as how many mistake they make when entering the text. So in this case you ought to be looking at a 'failure' percentage. I.e. out of a word with 8 letters, how many of those did they type incorrectly? Set the percentage high to start with (i.e. they're allowed to get say 80% of the letters wrong) and then decrease it as your game progresses.

For speed games you need the opposite. Start off with 10 WPM and then increase. While some people can type at around 100/120 WPM they're either (a) not likely to need to use a typing aid program! or (b) are making a LOT of mistakes because of that speed.

When you start TYTT and create a profile you set your Age Group and Typing Experience. The Age Groups are: Under 13, 13 to 20, 21 to 30, 30+. The Experience levels are: A beginner, One or two finger typing, a touch typist.

You then get to set your WPM and Accuracy levels yourself. These are what you will be ranked against in the tests.

The WPM scales from 1 to 100.
The Accuracy from 1 to 100%

I would start out quite low. Say 10 WPM with a 50% accuracy. Perhaps even lower than this. In the ZIP file you will find slider control gadgets, so if you want you could even let the user set their own levels at the start of the game.

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The game is over, the game is over
The Cage Complex
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 17:20
That is THE exaustive answer!
Thank's!

Luke B
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 18:22
Hi,

It would be useful if in our games we could access existing profiles, thus avoiding the need to create new profiles just for the game.

Can the developer(s) of TYTT provide the information on the file format/registry keys used for saving profiles?

Thanks,

Luke B

"The Oppression" (See Biog)

PC: Sempron 2800, 512MB, 120GB, Radeon 9250, WinXP.
Mnemonix
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 18:51
A note to people who are downloading dictionaries off the internet. Go through them and delete censored words, or have a censored word list in your game.

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 18:53
Quote: "3) Your game must work on a UK keyboard (important)"


How does this differ from a standard US keyboard in real life and in DBP? 99% of the ASCII codes are the same, right?

Mnemonix
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 18:58
Yea, its the scancodes you need to watch for. As far as I know for numbers and letters the scancodes are the same between US and UK keyboards. In fact I have often been mistakenly using the US layout with very few problems. I think its just a couple of symbols swapped around.

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Trek
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 18:59
Hi Richard,

You mentioned that we could run our game ideas by you so I was wondering what you thought of this idea for a typing-themed game:

You control a ship in a river with buoys, lighthouses, rocks, and other obstacles. You have a word on either side of the ship and by typing in a word/letter, you steer the ship to the corresponding side. Another ship on a side river is racing you. After a certain distance, both rivers enter a pond full of fish. Above each fish is a word/letter. Once you get there, you begin typing the letters above each fish in an attempt to catch as many as possible. But you have to be quick getting there and typing once you get there because as soon as your opponent arrives, he also will begin catching fish. The more fish you have, the higher your score. The speed of your opponent and the types of words would be based on your current level in the program.

If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.
empty
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 19:09
But there are more keyboard layouts with a lot more differences.

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 19:09 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2006 19:33
Quote: "3) Your game must work on a UK keyboard (important)"

Can we get a list of the "UK ascii set" or "scancodes" so we can see the difference?
Then we can make the neccessary changes, so that both could be offered as an option at start.
Does anyone know what the differences are exactly?
If not, then I guess this is a UK competition.
Oh well have fun and good luck guys.
Too bad I won't be able to play any of them without a UK keyboard.
Why did they need them to be disigned differently in the first place?
I thought the ASCII was a Standard?
How can there be more than one version of a Standard?
I am confused. I wasn't aware there was a difference.

JoelJ
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 19:28 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2006 19:28
UK

US


...

I hate QWERTY

Peter H
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 19:32 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2006 19:33
Quote: "Too bad I won't be able to play any of them without a UK keyboard. "

you wouldn't be able to play them unless you bought the product anyway...

[edit] thanks joel! I can tell right of the bat that the US keyboard is far superior

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 19:35 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2006 20:16
Beautiful Joel
I forgot about the Dollar signs, etc.
I guess there are major differences.
I had never even thought about it until now.
Now we have that out of the way.
Thanks


Quote: "you wouldn't be able to play them unless you bought the product anyway..."

The winners maybe, but don't forget all the losers. (there's more of them)
They will probably show off their efforts in the form of demos.
Isn't it only the winners who are bound by the no publishing requirement?
I can understand a "no publish policy" for all entries until the winner is selected.
Why would the losers be obligated to anything?

@Richard Davey
Quote: "6) Do not make your game publically available."

I know that applies to all contestants during the competition, but what about after?
Are all the losing entries bound by that term even after the competition?
Or would that only apply to the winners once they are selected?

Big Man
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 21:09
HI qick question.

do you have to use the keyboard funtions supplied with the download.
Cause I have a great idea but I can do it easier without the functions.

BM

Our aim is to keep the loo's clean, your aim can help.
Peter H
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 21:12
Quote: "The winners maybe, but don't forget all the losers. (there's more of them)"

good point, i tend to forget about those kinds of people

i imagine all the plain words will work fine on either keyboard... (or at least i hope)

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
Mnemonix
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 21:13
Big Man, you dont have to use those routines, its just suggested that you do. If you can provide a sufficient alternative then your welcome too.

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 21:14
IANAL but I would expect that you would be free to showcase your "losing" games once the compo is over, but only IF you used 100% of your own code and screens. If you use geecee3's code, or the screen graphics that were premade, you *could* run into a problem.

There's no way anyone can ever legally stop you from releasing your own product if you didn't sign anything and you ONLY used 100% of your own code and media.

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 21:28
Yeah,
I looked at the code in the download and it is pretty sweet.
You're right Jeku, I wasn't thinking about the losers using that download in their code.
They would be obligated. I see your point. Good one.

Drew the G
User Banned
Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 21:57
Ok okay, I am entering this compo, how do we send you an exectuable if we are using the DBP Trial version, like previously mentioned, DBP has not come in the mail yet ;(.


Current Project : "Untitled" - 3d Platformer - 1%
Chris Franklin
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 22:03
just look where your games folder is a send that exe if the trial is allowed that is

Fps world of mayhem 10%

JerBil
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2006 23:08
What are the files in the _MACOSX directory. None of the graphics
files in there will load into Photoshop, not even those that say PSD.

-JerBil

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 00:14
Quote: "Can the developer(s) of TYTT provide the information on the file format/registry keys used for saving profiles?"


I'll ask, but don't wait for this - and it shouldn't stop anyone from coming up with a game concept either.

Quote: "How does this differ from a standard US keyboard in real life and in DBP? 99% of the ASCII codes are the same, right?"


Sure..all the letter and number keys are the same. Only the symbol characters are different, but you will not want to be using those anyway. Look at the code in the ZIP file, if it works on your US keyboard, you've nothing to worry about.

Trek - I like your game idea, go for it I would however say don't worry about the 'opponent' ship too much, but just concentrate on making the game itself more rewarding / fun, it will also bring the complexity down, thus giving you more chance to finish it.

Quote: "Isn't it only the winners who are bound by the no publishing requirement?
I can understand a "no publish policy" for all entries until the winner is selected.
Why would the losers be obligated to anything?"


This is true. The 'losers' (although I do dislike that phrase, this isn't really a proper competition) are free to release their games.

Quote: "I know that applies to all contestants during the competition, but what about after? Are all the losing entries bound by that term even after the competition?
Or would that only apply to the winners once they are selected?"


Only those that are selected will have to sign a contract. So the rest are free to release their games if they so wish.

Quote: "do you have to use the keyboard funtions supplied with the download.
Cause I have a great idea but I can do it easier without the functions."


You don't have to, but I'd recommend it. They're fast, accurate and multi-task properly.

Quote: "What are the files in the _MACOSX directory. None of the graphics
files in there will load into Photoshop"


Ignore the OSX folder, it's just the default Mac directory stuff my iMac inserted and I couldn't be bothered to remove it. The PSDs were created in Photoshop CS2. They opened fine on CS1 on my PC, but I don't know how much further 'back' they will go, hence the PNG versions.

Cheers,

Rich

Too much, too soon, too far to go, too late to play
The game is over, the game is over
Dave J
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 01:50
Quote: "Ignore the OSX folder, it's just the default Mac directory stuff my iMac inserted and I couldn't be bothered to remove it. "


You couldn't be bothered? Tsk, tsk, what is this world coming to?!


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Gowmars
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 05:14
Is there a size limit??

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 05:34
Quote: "You must own the copyright on all media used."


What about royalty free stuff like Dark and Sound Matter?

Manticore Night
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 05:38
Too bad this is DBP only, had a good idea to. Hmm, is there anyway I could get around having to acctually own DBP to enter?

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He's back! With 20% less intelligence!
Drew the G
User Banned
Posted: 4th Feb 2006 06:43
@ Manticore Night
Yeah, you could do what I am, code in DBC, then download DBP trial and import to there. You -will- have one problem or another, so do it in advance to fix up any problems you may have by importation.


Current Project : "Untitled" - 3d Platformer - 1%
Mr Crazy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 16:34 Edited at: 4th Feb 2006 16:40
Question:

I have some Final Fantasy VIII music in Midi format from a site that lets you openly use it. Is this allowed in the competition? Reason being, I can't compose Midi and I need some good music. Otherwise, I will have to stick to the free DBP music.

Life, the Universe and Everything
Big Man
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 16:50
there may be an obvious answer to my question but.

What part of the provided code deals with producing another word when the correct word has been typed in?

BM

Our aim is to keep the loo's clean, your aim can help.
geecee3
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 17:08 Edited at: 4th Feb 2006 17:11
I suggest you read the comments , it's clearly marked in the comparison check routine.

and the actual swap is done at the end of the main loop


thanks, grant.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
geecee3
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 17:28
Hi all,

On another note, if you need bitmap based fonts for your game, I'll allow my fonts to be used this compo, you don't even have to credit me. As long as it's ok with TGC then it's fine by me to allow the fonts to be used in any of the TT games. It might make life a bit easier for some of the entrants

But only if it's ok with TGC.

Cheers, Grant.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
Big Man
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 17:40
thanks geecee3 that helped a lot

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 17:50
Quote: "What about royalty free stuff like Dark and Sound Matter?"


If it's properly royalty free then it can't have any copyright issues over using it, so yes it's fine.

Quote: "Too bad this is DBP only, had a good idea to. Hmm, is there anyway I could get around having to acctually own DBP to enter?"


This is a DBP product, it needs DBP built games with it. For our proper 2006 competiton we'll allow DB again of course, but this isn't the time.

Quote: "I have some Final Fantasy VIII music in Midi format from a site that lets you openly use it. Is this allowed in the competition? Reason being, I can't compose Midi and I need some good music. Otherwise, I will have to stick to the free DBP music."


I would say no - don't risk it. Leave out any kind of music and we can add that in if your game rocks. Music, graphics and to a lesser extent 3D objects (should you use them) we can help with, but you still need a great game concept first, concentrate on that beyond anything else.

As for using Grants bitmap fonts - sure, feel free. However I would state that these need to be family orientated games, so some of his more sci-fi/techno looking fonts won't be suitable. Think 'big bold Arial' rather than 'Amiga demo-scene' I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Rich

Too much, too soon, too far to go, too late to play
The game is over, the game is over
geecee3
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 18:13
yeah, some are a bit trippy and sci-fi orientated, I would suggest a simple function in your game to 'grab' a fontset from the inbuilt text and image commands. It should be a fairly simple task for most coders and has been demonstrated often on the forum. I even made an 11 lines of code scrolltext in 3d using a grabbed fontset from the inbuilt commands, it's actually really easy

Cheers, Grant.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
Trek
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 18:32
Hi Richard,

You mentioned in the contest description that, "We will provide ...example word banks to use". Is this the "alpha,bravo,charly,delta,..." in the beginning of the function code or are you going to send these out later?

Check out my website [url]http://roborangers.home.comcast.net/Trek.html[/url
DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 19:14
I haven't exactly seen all the questions but I have a few.

Firstly, do you have some screenshots of the "Teaching You Touch-Typing"?
I would like some to see how things work to get a basic idea of what the games should look like, you know so they don't look foreign.

Second, in Game Header.png do you have hover and active versions of the "X" button?

Third, do you have hover/active versions of the scrolllistbox, checkboxes, arrows, textbox?


Those things would be nice.

Mnemonix
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 19:16
Is there a logo for TYTT yet, I want to include it on the screen of my game if that is possible

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 19:37 Edited at: 4th Feb 2006 19:51
Thanks for the quick answers Richard.
I don't like the term 'losers' either, but its like Mama Rosa said...
Quote: "The next best thing to playin' and winnin', is playin' and losin'."


I'd rather be a loser than to never try at all, and I've learned so much in the process.
I doubt I will finish in time, but thanks for the opportunity to enter this contest.

He said they can add that stuff (LOGOs) later.

Focus on DESIGN AND CONCEPT right now.

From what I gathered;
You'll have all of March to add the visuals.
IF the working proto-type of your concept is selected at the end of February.




Mnemonix
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 19:44
Yes I know that. I would like to know if there is going to be a logo available!

WE SHALL BECOME ALL POWERFUL! CRUSH THE LESSER RACES! CONQUER THE GALAXY! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING ! ! ! ETC. ! ! ! ETC.! ! !
Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 20:01 Edited at: 4th Feb 2006 20:32
Newsletter...
Quote: "TYTT stands for 'Teach Yourself Touch Typing'. It is a commercial software title sold in the UK by Focus Multimedia, who TGC work closely with. "

Focus Multimedia LTD

Cool Partners.
Cool Content.


EDIT
I removed my link because the one below is better.

DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 20:06 Edited at: 4th Feb 2006 20:06
Richard Davey
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 21:12
Yes there is a logo, however I don't want to see it used in the games for the following reason:

All of the games are available from a section off the main TYTT menu system. You won't be able to launch the games on their own. Therefore someone playing one of these games in the final product will have already seen the TYTT intro, have clicked on the menu system, have selected the game they want and then all they are expecting is to start playing it (with perhaps a small options / instructions screen at the start). Therefore your game doesn't need the TYTT logo within it, because as far as the end user is concerned they *know* they are already using TYTT because that is what they clicked on after-all!

Does this make any sense? Try to visualise your games as part of a final full title, not stand-alone entities. They don't need to reinforce the fact they are part of TYTT because the players will know this already, hence I don't believe you need to see the logo anywhere in it.

The red X button doesn't have a roll-over state in the product, I will post a screen shot on Monday when the latest beta arrives. For now though I really cannot stress enough that you should be focusing 99% on how the game plays and what the game concept is, and only 1% on 'does it look like the rest of the product', etc. We will gladly help all the "winners" make their games look and feel part of TYTT, so don't spend much time on this yet. Concentrate on the game itself. Please

Cheers,

Rich

Too much, too soon, too far to go, too late to play
The game is over, the game is over
Big Man
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 21:22 Edited at: 4th Feb 2006 21:24
hi

where can I find geecee3's fonts?
and how would I go about implimenting them into my game?

thanks

BM

Our aim is to keep the loo's clean, your aim can help.
geecee3
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 21:41
big man,
the fonts if you've not seen them, are not your normal type of fonts, they require extracting fram an image in sequence to individual images. then the images are used as sprites or textures to represent character values in a string. The fonts are designed for arcade games and scrolling message displays, they're monospaced and of pretty limited use in the compo due to some crazy designs and colours, they are there if you want them. some of the fonts are in uppercase, some just lower case. they could be handy as placeholder graphics to demonstrate your concept better.

Implimenting them into your program is something you really have work out for yourself, you are expected to write 'some' code for your entry :p (joke)

thanks, grant.

PS.the forum has a search facility, or you could just click the little website link thing below this text

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 21:53
Thanks Rich for clearing that up. Makes perfect sense to me now not to include a logo.

I suppose all of the fine tuning for getting it right for the TYTT distribution will come when the games are chosen.

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Mr Crazy
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Posted: 4th Feb 2006 22:18
There is a sort of logo for TTYT. Look in the TYTT pack and in the graphics folder, there is a toolbar that says TYTT.

Are we allowed to base our ideas on the example?

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TKF15H
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 03:45
Quote: "I don't like the term 'losers' either, but its like Mama Rosa said...
Quote: "The next best thing to playin' and winnin', is playin' and losin'.""

I'd say the next best thing to playin' and winnin' is playin' and getting a tie.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 04:31
Quote: "Are we allowed to base our ideas on the example?"


No, it was one of the game prototypes built by Chris (he of Mono fame) so hopefully will be appearing in the package anyway, which means copying it wouldn't be a smart idea.

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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 05:22
as far as the game engine is concerned, does the game have to be like a "type the falling word and get a point" type of game? Cause I have an idea for a game that is a 2d sidescroller that should be fairly simple for me to do. To implement typing into this, the player will have to type every command. For example, to look through a window, the player would have to type "look window", "look at window" or "look through window." However, if they typed "lok widnow" then it would say something along the lines of "that doesn't compute." Is this acceptable or not? I don't want to work really hard and then at the end of February be told "sorry, your game isn't the right type of game."

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