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Geek Culture / The TYTT Development Thread

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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 05:27 Edited at: 5th Feb 2006 05:42
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Here's something I've started. I'll later add graphics and such (just getting most of the programming done now). Just seeing what you think so far. I want to make it so that missiles are falling onto a base, and to stop them you must type the letter associated with each missle.

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Dave J
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 05:49
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Joe, I've removed your attachment for now because I think you may want to verify what the legalities of making a version available publically before doing something like that is. As has been stated, you can't offer your game for download if it's selected because it will appear in a commercial product, so I believe this would extend to all beta versions of the game as well (no matter how incomplete).

I can't imagine that TGC would want anyone offering something for download at all, because as soon as you start trying to draw a line between what's "incomplete enough to download" and what's representative of a final version that you shouldn't be allowed to offer for download, things start to get a bit hazy and it'd be asking for trouble. To be on the safe side, I wouldn't upload any version of your game until the competition has ended and provided your game didn't get picked. Obviously this makes testing very difficult, but it's something you'll have to live with. Hope you understand.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 06:08
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Joe - you can email an EXE to me and I'll check it out for you. However I would like to add that 'missiles falling onto a base' isn't totally "family friendly" the concept is sound, but please try and alter the subject matter.

Quote: "as far as the game engine is concerned, does the game have to be like a "type the falling word and get a point" type of game?"


No of course not.

Quote: "Cause I have an idea for a game that is a 2d sidescroller that should be fairly simple for me to do. To implement typing into this, the player will have to type every command. For example, to look through a window, the player would have to type "look window", "look at window" or "look through window." However, if they typed "lok widnow" then it would say something along the lines of "that doesn't compute." Is this acceptable or not?"


Hard to say without seeing something in action, or some screen shots/mock-ups demonstrating how it works. It sounds ok, but don't try and over-stretch yourself given the very short timescale.

Here are some game ideas that might give you all a clearer picture of what we'd like:

Archery

The player has to enter a word within a time limit. The fewer the mistakes, the closer to the bulls-eye of the target the arrow lands. Longer words, less time, full sentances, etc all make the game get increasingly harder. Get enough right and you are awarded cups (trophies).

Horse Racing

You pick a horse and then enter a race (all other horses = computer AI). This is a stamina test.. so see how many words you can type in 1 minute, with the smallest number of errors. The better you do, the faster your horse runs, until the end.

Supermarket Cashier

Various items scroll past and you must enter their prices (shown on labels / tags) using the numeric keypad only. There are lessons in TYTT that teach numeric keys only, so it is perfectly allowed.

As you can see from the above these are simple concepts, easy to implement (but will take time to hone the difficulty levels), and family friendly (no weapons, no war, no tanks, no deaths, etc).

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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 06:34
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@ exeat: That's fine. Didn't consider it at the time.
@ rich: As for the idea, I can rethink, it. It was something I threw together fast anyways, and I didn't do any graphics, so no harm done. The reason why I posted it was so I could figure out if I whould change the idea or not. (and if I did do missles, I was planning on a whole loony toon type of thing- if that sounds more "family friendly")

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BN2 Productions
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 06:45
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another question, what is the main age group we need to make the games for? I know it seems that only kids will need to learn how to type, but I know a 45 year old guy who still "hunts and pecks." I know that the games need to be family friendly, but is there a particular age group we could aim for?

thnx
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 06:58
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No specific age group, this covers everything from small children (who most likely don't need it!) to adults and OAPs. There's no one demographic, so cater for all. Play it safe, just play it fun!

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Blue Shadow
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 20:11 Edited at: 5th Feb 2006 20:14
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Hey Rich,

I have an idea for the TYTT competetion and I would really appreciate it if you could give it a quick look over.

In this game you are a fisherman sitting on a river bank or in a boat. The player can see lots of fish swimming around of varying lengths. Each fish has a word printed on it and the user has to type the word. The user selects the fish either by clicking on it or using the arrow keys to scroll through the different fish. When the user enters the correct word you see the fisherman cast down his line and captures the fish. The user will have a set time and at the end their score is shown. This will shown the number of fish caught and their accuracy as a percentage. A final score and a Grade will then be given to them based on the number of fish caught, their size (and thus word length) and their accuracy.

Thanks for your time,

Mike

PS. I sent you an email as well so I'm not sure which one you'll get first



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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 21:08
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Blue Shadow - That sounds cool, but you should probably make it so the user doesn't have to select the fish first. If there's a whole bunch of fish on the screen with different words on them, the system should detect which fish you're typing in automatically.

But obviously it's up to Rich to give you an official opinion

By the way, Popcap Games' wonderful Typer Shark game has fish, sharks, and other ocean dwellers. Maybe it might be too similar?


Automaton Games website has been revamped! Check it out!
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Blue Shadow
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Posted: 5th Feb 2006 21:36
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Hmmm good point. I hadn't noticed that game before. Maybe Rich can shed some light on this and wether he reckons I should go ahead?



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Peter H
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 00:32 Edited at: 6th Feb 2006 00:33
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How about a dart game? (haven't read the whole thread, but i'm assuming this hasn't been mentioned yet)

you're in a bedroom facing a wall, different targets (classic bullseyes type) will pop up with words/letters on them. If you type without making mistakes the dart gun in the upper left corner of the screen (or maybe upper right) shoots and gets a bullseye... of course if you mis-type then you don't get quite as many points... and if you really mess up you just might end up shooting the wall

rubbish or worth trying?

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
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Mr Crazy
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 14:18 Edited at: 6th Feb 2006 14:20
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This is my idea that I might use:

2D PLATFORMER
You are a wizard in a recycling factory. You have "junk" moving along a conveyer belt and a gremlin shouting the magical words and you have to type them in. Basically, the conveyer belt speeds up as the user enters more correct words in. If the any junk falls off the conveyer belt, you loose a life. However, if you enter a correct word, the junk is transformed into shiny gold . It's not just that, you also advance through the factory and different tasks are given (obviously typing related).

How's that? Or is it using the original framework idea too much :/.
Cheers,
Nick.

Ps. Any feedback, feel free to e-mail me at nrakosi@nospam.com
(Replace "nospam" with "gmail")

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Scraggle
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 14:59
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Could you please clarify how much of the game you would like us to code.

Do you need a complete stand alone game with it's own menu/options screen and high score table or is there a standard opening screen within TYTT that holds the options and then executes our game code before returning to TYTT for highscores?

Thanks


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BatVink
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 15:04
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Is the game CD-only, or will it be installed? In other words, can configuration files be saved to disk and be modifiable?

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 16:08
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Quote: "Could you please clarify how much of the game you would like us to code?"


All of it. If your game requires an options screen at the start, it needs to be in your exe (you can save the options to disk if you want). If you want a highscore table, it needs to be local to your game only.

Quote: "Is the game CD-only, or will it be installed? In other words, can configuration files be saved to disk and be modifiable?"


It *has* to be installed, so yes you can save config files, high scores, etc.

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Chris K
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 18:41
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How finished do you want it to be?

I normally put a lot of effort into the art on my games but if they're going to be re-done then there doesn't seem much point.

Will it harm our chances if the game looks like crap?

It's just in 1 month I could do 1 graphically really nice game or 3 really decently playable games.

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yerrel
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 18:45
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Just one quick question, maybe sounds noobie but need to know it.

Is it wise to use Sync 125 or is it better to us Sync 0?

ABIT NF7-S V2.0, AMD XP1700+ @ 2300MHz ) , ASUS gForce4 Ti4200 8XAGP, 2x256Mb Dual Channel .... Still using DARKBASIC PRO. TRIAL
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BatVink
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 18:48
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OK...there are some bugs in the code provided, and I'm not entirely sure how to fix them just now...

When you press SHIFT, it logs an error. Thus, no capitals can be used.

You can fix the above issue quickly by changing:

if temp_scancode <> outbound_scan

to

if temp_scancode <> outbound_scan and shiftkey() = 0

BUT! if you then press a character key with the SHIFT key, you don't get an error when it is wrong

Pressing SHIFT and a character registers a correct keypress, even when the character should be lowercase.

None of the lower row of characters [z...m] register when SHIFT is pressed.

I'll take anotrher look shortly, but right now somebody needs to come up with a cunning plan!!!

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 18:53
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Quote: "How finished do you want it to be?

I normally put a lot of effort into the art on my games but if they're going to be re-done then there doesn't seem much point.

Will it harm our chances if the game looks like crap?"


The art isn't going to be re-done by default. If you can draw perfectly well enough in the first place then we'd use those graphics (and you'd have a much higher chance of us picking your game for the product).

The offer of graphics are for those who come up with a stonking idea, but can't graphically pull it off. If the idea is pretty average, and we'd have to spend hundreds re-doing the graphics as well, then forget it!

Having your game as close to finished as possible (from all aspects) makes it FAR more appealing to us.

Kiss my shiny metal ass
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Chris K
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 19:19 Edited at: 6th Feb 2006 19:31
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OK thanks.

(and for the record it's "Bite my shiny metal ass"

---------------

Another thing, maybe it's me but isn't the code provided way too complicated? Is the point that it runs at a faster fps than the screen?

I've got something like this:



Isn't that good enough?

If I want it to react faster can't I just repeat the 'UpdateAttempt' bit like this:



I can't type fast enough to test...

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 19:47
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Quote: "Another thing, maybe it's me but isn't the code provided way too complicated? Is the point that it runs at a faster fps than the screen?"


I'll say it one last time - I don't care HOW you detect the keyboard presses, or what code you use to do so - just make sure it's bloody smooth and never drops a single character... ever. There is *nothing* more frustrating than a typing game that can't keep up with what you are actually typing. We provided code that does this, if you don't want to use it I couldn't care less, just make sure it works!

Bite my shiny metal ass
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geecee3
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Posted: 6th Feb 2006 19:50
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I think the games are supposed to run timer based, not framerate based. the games should run with a sync rate 0 if I'm not mistaken, mabey I am though.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
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The Cage Complex
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 01:15
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Richard,
I've just sent to you my 2nd project ("Hansen skies") I've wrote tonight - sorry to mailing you Alphas, but I'd really like to have your agreement with my concepts before really starting something!

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Ric
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 01:42
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I think Chris K and Batvink have a point. I've come up with an alternative to Geekee's input code. (No offence Geekee! )

It's a lot simpler, and because it uses the windows entry buffer, it is WAY faster. If you whack Geekees code down to sync rate 20 (which is about as fast as it will be on a 5 year old machine like mine once you've added in 3d graphics and the like ), it is actually quite easy to out-type it - basically, as it uses scancode and keystate, it only checks for keyboard entry when it gets to that particular part of the program loop - which at 20fps isn't that often. I've tested mine down to 10 fps and it's never dropped a character. That's because it reads the keyboard input regardless of where it is in the program loop, and stores it in the buffer. Also, things like backspace, shift, and all the numpad keys all work exactly as they should.

If anyone cares to test it out, it would be useful to know if it works universally.

(And, just incase anyone kicks up a fuss about final copyright etc, I am of course providing this code as open source to be used by anybody in any way - it's just a code snippet!)



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Drew the G
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 02:13
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Wow that snippet it great...

HEY WAIT JUST A DANG SECOND---- RICH
ARE WE MAKING TEN GAMES TO PUT IN YOUR GAME AS WE ARE DOING ALL THE WORK WHILE WE MAKE A MEASLY $530 WHILE YOUR MAKING THOUASNDS OFF OF OTHERS???

If I am wrong please forgive me.


Current Project : "Untitled" - 3d Platformer - 1%
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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 02:19
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I'll take $530. Most of my games go for free, so $530 is more than welcome in my book. And besides, this is a good way to possibly get better known (credits etc). There's also a lot more required then just compiling a cd of our work. Marketing's a big part of the gaming business of which we won't have to bother with in this deal.

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Hoopkid ups
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 02:19 Edited at: 7th Feb 2006 02:23
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Quote: "HEY WAIT JUST A DANG SECOND---- RICH
ARE WE MAKING TEN GAMES TO PUT IN YOUR GAME AS WE ARE DOING ALL THE WORK WHILE WE MAKE A MEASLY $530 WHILE YOUR MAKING THOUASNDS OFF OF OTHERS???"


I believe there were some things which may be considered inaccurate in that statement.

1. It's not Rich's game
2. It's not only a game, it's also software which helps you learn to type.
3. As far as I know, Rich isn't making any money directly from the sales.
4. $530 is better than nothing, most people using Dark Basic usually make games just for fun.

I don't mean to sound rude, it's just an awful big assumption to make.

Unless you were joking...
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 02:35 Edited at: 7th Feb 2006 02:37
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Quote: "HEY WAIT JUST A DANG SECOND---- RICH
ARE WE MAKING TEN GAMES TO PUT IN YOUR GAME AS WE ARE DOING ALL THE WORK WHILE WE MAKE A MEASLY $530 WHILE YOUR MAKING THOUASNDS OFF OF OTHERS???"


Schoolboy economics rock. But in essence, yes - the publisher (which isn't us btw) will make significantly more than $530 in the long run. At least I'd hope so, seeing as they are the ones fronting up the cash for production, distribution, advertising, own the brand IP, etc etc. Will we (TGC) all be driving around in Ferraris based on the income off of your single game? (or even all 10) -- no, not in our lifetimes. This is a small, niche product which only has market in the UK. You can't sell typing products into the US because of Mavis Beacon. The games in this title are a small (but still significant) part of the overall title which has been in production for 1.5 years now.

You don't HAVE to make a game. If you think your masterpiece is worth Activision lending you their right arm, feel free to approach them. If on the other hand $530 sounds quite appealing for what should be significantly less work than any of our competitions (Alienware, Nvidia, Puzzle Compo, etc), then go for it. Otherwise, hop back into a productive evening of CS:S and stop posting in caps in my thread

Bite my shiny metal ass
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BatVink
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 12:57
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Ric, that works well for me. I did a ZX Spectrum "Daley Thompson Track'n'Field" style test with two characters and it kept up with me.

One worry was holding a key down and pressing others (Why you'd do it I don't know but you have to test every possibility!) It caused a delay before continuing again. But then I realised what you said - this is windows functionality so it is perfectly natural behaviour.

I can see good reasons for using either method. GeeCee has a good framework for doing more extensive tests beyond simple input if you need it. But if you want to keep it simple and build your own stuff around the keyboard entry, the entry$() method works perfectly. 101 ways to skin a cat and all that...

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Ric
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 17:33
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Quote: "GeeCee has a good framework for doing more extensive tests beyond simple input if you need it. "


Absolutely - his code was far more than just keyboard entry, and I'm sure people will find it very useful. One thing about the entry$ command, is that it does store the return key presses as part of the string as well, so when comparing it against a test word, you'll want to remember to knock the ascii code for return (chr$(13)) off the input string.

As for skinning cats, I couldn't possibly comment.

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BatVink
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 18:30
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A couple of things worth noting...

Quote: "when comparing it against a test word, you'll want to remember to knock the ascii code for return (chr$(13)) off the input string"


It's probably best to do what Grant did originally, and add each character to your own variable as it's typed. You can then use CHR$(13) as a confirmation keypress - that is, a "I'm done, check me out!" key.

Store the last key and the current key. Then, you can check for a change in keypress. In addition, remember that an ENTRY$() of "" simply means no key is being pressed, and can be ignored.

And don't forget to CLEAR ENTRY BUFFER every cycle!!!

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Mr Crazy
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 20:32
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I have a question:

Are we allowed to use any functions provided by the framework? Or will that infringe on the copyright?>

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Big Man
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Posted: 7th Feb 2006 21:34
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your supposed to use the functions provided by the framework. Otherwise it might be a bit difficult to create a winning game unless you have a better code.

Our aim is to keep the loo's clean, your aim can help.
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Drew the G
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OH okay Rich, Sorry about that last post, I mentioned forgiveness if I was wrong. OKay, I will be entering this comp, I just check DBP will come in, in two days. Bye


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DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 8th Feb 2006 05:18
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umm how many entried are we allowed?

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Chris K
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Posted: 8th Feb 2006 09:20
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As many as you want.

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BatVink
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Posted: 8th Feb 2006 09:45
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Quote: "umm how many entried are we allowed?"


Quote: "We pay per game so if you are on a coding streak and provide us with two games and we pick them both..."


Rich, when you post, can you double the font size, add flashing lights and add the sound of a ship's horn please?

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Ric
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Posted: 8th Feb 2006 11:34
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lmao!

DbproGuy - my advice would be to concentrate on doing ONE game, and do it WELL.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 8th Feb 2006 12:15
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Quote: "Rich, when you post, can you double the font size, add flashing lights and add the sound of a ship's horn please?"


I wish I once toyed with the idea of a large pair of animated breasts with my post scrolling across them. I figured it would get peoples attention long enough for them to actually read what I type, but in the end I imagined lots of...

"So like I'm writing this boob game, where you have to type at 50 nipples a second, and jiggle your way into the highscore bra".



Bite my shiny metal ass
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geecee3
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Posted: 8th Feb 2006 12:59
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Bagsey play test that game first Rich. I have this thing about boobs. As most guys do

Thanks, Mr Breast Lover.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
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BatVink
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Posted: 8th Feb 2006 15:12 Edited at: 8th Feb 2006 15:37
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Is anyone able to provide the graphical elements as individual entities? The PNG files are single layer, and I can't open the PSD files in my APP

The Window Panel as a standalone item would be nice for starters

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Scraggle
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Posted: 8th Feb 2006 16:05 Edited at: 8th Feb 2006 16:13
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I have Photoshop CS2 and they open fine in that. give me a minute and i will post them for you.

[Edit] I've attached the window graphic do you want any others?


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BatVink
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Posted: 8th Feb 2006 16:27
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Perfect - thanks!

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Scraggle
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Posted: 8th Feb 2006 16:48 Edited at: 8th Feb 2006 16:48
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Is there an official word list that we can use?

If not, does anybody have one that they are willing to share?

Thanks


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Blue Shadow
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http://www.manythings.org/vocabulary/lists/c/

Hope this helps.



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Scraggle
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Thanks


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Reaperman
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Posted: 9th Feb 2006 14:49 Edited at: 9th Feb 2006 14:50
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Rich,

My daughter (Dragon3) is entering this contest and asked me to clarify something for her.

She would like to be able to print out comments on-screen when the user has succeeded or failed in playing the game. But she would also like to personalises it a little bit by using their name, like this: “Congratulations Paul, you succeeded in ….” etc.

Now, she could ask them their name at the beginning of the game she’s writing of cause, but if the user has already been asked by the main program it would be silly to ask them again, so could you post here the string name that the main program uses so that she can incorporate it in her program.

So in other words, if the main program asks the user for their name and stores it in “Name$” she can then use “Name$” in her print command.

Hope you understand what I mean.


Cheers
Reaperman
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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 9th Feb 2006 14:52
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I no I'm not rich, but yes she can. She can also use it in the text and center text commands to. just say Print Name$ . good luck!

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Reaperman
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Posted: 9th Feb 2006 14:54
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Quote: "I no I'm not rich, but yes she can. She can also use it in the text and center text commands to. just say Print Name$ . good luck!"


Yes I know she can Joe...But I was not asking that, I was asking for the variable thats used.
But thanks anyway.

Cheers
Reaperman
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Feb 2006 15:08
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You won't have access to variables like this because you game will be called as a stand-alone EXE. However I'll ask Kes where he stores the profiles, the problem being you can have multiple profiles (anyone can create their own tytt session), so you'll also need a means to determine which one is actually in use. For now, asume you will prompt the user for their name.

Bite my shiny metal ass
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Peter H
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Posted: 9th Feb 2006 15:09 Edited at: 9th Feb 2006 15:09
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i don't think the variables will carry over

[edit] posted before i read teh rich's

"We make the worst games in the universe..."
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